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Daredevil Speed

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Ryandswagger

Ryandswagger

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So I was looking through marvel profiles and I found darevils and looked at his speed. And I found his speed stat at Mach 827+. Now maybe it's just me but I find this absolutely obsurd.

For starters Daredevils portrayal in the comics is Peak Human (marvels definition of it anyway) which is lower than Captain America who's labeled as an enhanced human (the perfect human anyways). Essentially anyone who isn't enhanced or trained to be superhuman is lower than Cap by default. Now do note caps speed here is labeled as Mach 21.6 from scaling to Black Panther which is fine. But can you see the difference here between Mach 21.6 to Mach 827+?

Further more Spider-Man who's registered as a superhuman in marvel is calced at Mach 400+. Which is fast. But Daredevil a Peak Human and has consistently been shown to be slower than Spider-Man is over 2x faster than him? This seems off.

So here's 2 options.

1) we give Cap Mach 827 status, make any marvel superhuman (speed) this level or higher (including Spider-Man) while keeping DDs speed.

2) Or we can change DDs speed to another feat.
 
Captain America and Black Panther will both become MHS as well in the future. If you actually look at Marvel Comics, practically everyone can react / move in Microseconds, which usually wields results on that level.

Also Daredevil is definitely Superhuman, his strength was enhanced by the chemicals. He casually swats bullets with his baton while in Year One during the Frank Miller run, for instance.

And MHS definitely isn't absurd considering how Hawkeye and Black Panther have a Mach 9,000+ feat and Ant-Man has Relativistic feats. I think it's fairly reasonable.
 
Which is true. However, I find some of them to be more outlierish. Like how in marvel people are surprised that Cap can dodge bullets and see them in mid flight. Making the implication Cap is in the bullet range (maybe higher like how the missle feats are but still in range). And when fighting foes like Electro (in contrast to Spider-Man) people like captain America haven't shown the ability to dodge lightning after being fired and typically resort to aim dodging. Granite I haven't read all of the comics so I could be off on the last part.

I was under the impression that it was the senses was enhanced not strength, speed ect. Especially sense this guide labels DD as normal human (in verse this refers anyone from a average citizen to Cap)
IMG 0343
If you're reffering to the microsecond feat that very well could be just classic comic book talk. Especially sense an author said that most microsecond statements aren't meant to be taken literally. Can find the scan if you want. Can't say anything about ant-man as I've never seen the feat.
 
Both Daredevil and Captain America have dodged lightning in their encounters with Electro. And no, all of Daredevil's senses are enhanced. His hearing is legit eco-locational.

Nobody cares about the guidebooks anymore, they are horribly incorrect. Daredevil is casually superhuman and even the weaker Punisher has several 9-A+ feats.

I don't care at all if the writers say that the Microsecond statement is hyperbole. It's stated by the Omniscient Narrator who states literal information all the time, so there's no reason to consider it hyperbole.

Edit: Also in the very same scan you linked you can see Daredevil doing superhuman stuff, like swatting a bullet and doing some extreme acrobacy jumping from one guy to another kicking both. So no, he definitely doesn't have the "Normal human strength of a man of his age, height, and build who engages in intensive regular exercise."
 
And about Microseconds being Hyperbole...

I really doubt it, since sometimes the narration itself admits that the scene is slowed down for the reader in relation to stuff happening in Microseconds.

I also doubt Tony Stark is being Hyperbolic when he states that Spider-Man needs to time an action to the exact microsecond, and correlates him doing it to him having super-speed .

Even Daredevil's feat comes from his own personal thought-bubble, rather than narrator statements. I see no reason why Matt would be hyperbolic to himself.
 
Ye they've dodged it but the method was never shown to be dodging after it's been fired. Yea his senses but I'm talking about his strength and speed.

I think you misunderstand what I mean by Peak Human. Obviously characters like Daredevil in our world would be superhuman with ease. But I'm saying by marvels standard of Peak Human is drastically different than our own. The point of me bringing up Peak Human, superhuman, and enhanced human was simply for scaling and nothing else.

But the Narrator is essentially author statements. Now if we have two author statements made by the same person and one contradicts the other the more recent statement is the most valid one. As it makes the previous statement a recon to the characters speed.
 
No, we can definitely see that these characters can dodge to things after they've been fired many times.

... So if you agree that Daredevil is Superhuman by our standards why did you bring up the "Peak Human" thing?

A Peak Human in Marvel is vastly Superhuman in ours. Even depowered Thor and human Ben Grimm which are just really buff dudes are easily Wall level and Subsonic.

Nope. What the Omniscient Narrator says =/= What the author says years later on twitter. The former is far more reliable.

Why do you say that Daredevil is only Peak Human when he ca do all of these blatantly super-Human feats.
 
Reffering to Ironman scans the first ones problem is the fact that well... it's Ironman. Ironman is far from street levelers which is the subject point mostly. So him doing stuff in a microsecond is fine especially sense he had other feats that are consistent with this idea.

And for the Spider-Man thing that can be held true because Spider-Man didn't have to move much like a foot. That's 888.63x the speed of sound. Which is consistent as Spider-Man has been implied by himself and Electro to be faster than Electro who's lightning speed.
 
But by your logic Tony Stark isn't supposed to have Superspeed, yet there he is doing a MHS speed feat.

Reed Richards isn't supposed to be super-fast either yet he, Ben and Sue all have numerous MHS feats too.

And yeah, Spider-Man is MHS+ given his superiority over Electro and other MHS heroes.
 
Spider-Man has a villain called "Lightmaster" who's power is that he can move as light and shoot lightspeed rays, and Spiderman dodges him everytime they fight.

However he is a rather obscure villain, so I'm more comfortable scaling him from Electro who is one of his main and most iconic baddies.
 
Can you show a scan of that?

Like I've said The standard of Peak Human in Marvel is drastically higher than our real life world. So in marvel Peak Humans > our Peak humans. Marvels Peak humans = our definition of superhumans.

My point exactly. However I mention it for power scaling by marvels definition of it.

No. This is the same thing if it happens on screen or paper. It's a recon. Like how they had to recon punisher military story so it fits current times/wars. Same thing can be said for feats.

Not going to mention that last part as it's pretty well explained earlier in this comment.
 
"Like I've said The standard of Peak Human in Marvel is drastically higher than our real life world. So in marvel Peak Humans > our Peak humans. Marvels Peak humans = our definition of superhumans."

Then why were you previously saying that:

"For starters Daredevils portrayal in the comics is Peak Human"

"Especially sense this guide labels DD as normal human"

"Oh and in the scan it says DDs only superhuman powers are the senses."

If you do agree that he IS superhuman?

"No. This is the same thing if it happens on screen or paper. It's a recon. Like how they had to recon punisher military story so it fits current times/wars. Same thing can be said for feats."

???

What is the retcon? The narrator statement in the comic? I don't get it.
 
Can you quote me on that? Because the point I was making is that due to Ironman being far beyond the street leveler tier he can have those microsecond feats as they are consistent with other feats.

Glad we can agree on that.

Also, assuming the light master point was referencing the other dude.
 
Why is Iron Man having MHS and Relativistic speed feats okay if Tony isn't meant to be superhuman but Daredevil having MHS feats and scaling is?

I know that Iron Man is a global hero while Matt is stuck in New York, but it's essentially the same argument.

Lightmaster is a 60s - 70s villain last I reccal, so it's not a retcon.
 
Quote 1: that was a representation of what Marvel thinks of him. And not was the real life Peak Human thinks of him. And was merely for scaling to cap and Spidey.

Quote 2: right after I said that I said this. "in verse this refers anyone from a average citizen to Cap".

Quote 3: refers to the same thing ^

Superhuman in our view yes.

The retcon is the portrayal of speed Daredevil has in the comics.
 
... That's not a retcon either. Daredevil has done superhuman speed feats since the 60s.

Feats always trump intent.
 
Because I've only seen that one feat of DD. Iron man has shown to be consistently that level.

But the power difference is there. DD being wall-building can't be compared to Ironman who's listed at anywhere from Large Island-dwarf star.

Light master was actually a villain in superior Spider-Man.
IMG 0344
 
Yes, one feat for Daredevil, but if I were to list all the heroes who have Microsecond / MHS feats I'd be here all day, and scaling does exist.
 
I never denied DD having superhuman level feats (in our eyes) in the 60s.

No. If the author directly states how impressive the feat actually is. Example Spider-Man punched Ironman through a building at one point. Ironman directly states how impressive the punch is. Now if someone that's reading the comic decides to calculate the destruction of the feat and get a higher/lower number than what's presented that doesn't matter as clearly the author only meant for the punch to be at the level he written to be.
 
I'm sure there's plenty. But if we analyze Daredevil on his own he has shown no other feat that puts him in that relative range. And scaling can be used in marvel but it has to be insanely consistent to the character for it to be applied. Like how there's a statement where Black Panther is stated to be faster than Spider-Man by Spider-Man himself. But due to the inconsistency of that statement that can't be applied.
 
Demonbane author says his own characters are Multiversal.

Author statements mean next to nothing in 90% of media
 
Uh... If Daredevil has a calced MHS feat, dodges Electro's lightning, is not far of from Iron Fist or Spidey speed-wise, and multiple street-characters have MHS feats, what's wrong?
 
All the author is saying is that the statement to the feat is a hyperbole. An exaggeration.
 
And author statements once again mean nothing.

Author thinks Demonbane is 2A.....
 
... Yo, I don't care what the author states in Marvel. There's a world of difference between the in-universe omniscient narrator and a twitter / tumblr statement. The former is meant to be taken in at face-value, the later is talking about authorial intent.

Mike Wong already discussed this way back in 2001 or so and came to the conclusion that we have to treat fictional series as the equivalent of "literal doccumentaries of what happened in-universe" to be able to analyze their feats in-depth, or else we'd always be trapped by endless discussions of authorial intent, etc.
 
I haven't seen him dodging Electros lightning after being fired yet. Also, he's far from someone like Spider-Man.

Spider-Man while not operating at peak efficiency was able to SpeedBlitz the crap out of DD. DD at best could barely register he was there by not even react to him. Do note Spidey was roughly a dozen Meters away when this feat happened. Also do you have a scan of him being relative to iron fist?

https://m.imgur.com/a/jFajX
 
I'm going to say that you should. Authors have FULL CONTROL over anything that happens within his own work. And how is the format of the statement matter? You seem to think that simply because a question was answered on twitter or tumbler that means it's wrong. That is not the case. If you do think that that would be a genetic fallacy.

No way can we take stuff like that. By that logic we'd have to only use the highest possible end of a characters feat and say that represents that character at full capacity. Here let me give you a real life example then give you a comic book example.

Usain Bolt ran 28 miles per hour at his top speed. So if he performs anything lower than that it would be simply accused that he wasn't at peak performance. Now let's put that in a fictional scenario.

Venoms screech was able to travel to another star system within moments. That's MTFL+ and the levels of power the screech had to be would be insane. And any other feat lower than that can be said to be not at his peak efficiency.
 
"I'm going to say that you should. Authors have FULL CONTROL over anything that happens within his own work. And how is the format of the statement matter? You seem to think that simply because a question was answered on twitter or tumbler that means it's wrong. That is not the case. If you do think that that would be a genetic fallacy."

Death of the Author. What the author say doesn't matter.

Your comparison is absurd. Usain Bolt's peak speed is 28 miles, all his other "speed feats" are only a few times slower, so his speed is actually consistent.

Meanwhile you're pretending that Venom is MFTL+ and comparison MHS Daredevil to it.

The difference is that MHS Marvel Heroes is ridiculously consistent.
 
What do you mean by the "death of the author"?

The example was to show the highest end of the feats can't be used which is what the quote your provided implied.

Simply because you're a marvel hero doesn't mean you can be that high. Most gods in dragon ball at this point are universal tier. Does that mean that all gods are universal? No obviosuly the kioshins aren't that high. Same thing can be applied here.

Yea lightning makes that sound wether it's being shot or not.
 
Death of the Author means an author's intentions hold no weight in determining an interpretation of their writing. Their statements and opinions dont matter in relation to their works.
 
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