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We can discuss more Final Fantasy in a different thread later, but let's focus on Dark Souls for now.
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Dark Souls Upgrades
- Thread starter KinkiestSins
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Isnt the entier point in gaining Souls to make a character Stronger ... and As dex proves faster "The chosen undead doesnt get visibly faster" because if he did the game would be easier if your roll got faster
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Except it isn't since the people who made it should be way below the first flame, and since the chosen undead lit the first flame he should be faster and stronger than the random bell made to worship dragons that got murder stomped by Gwyn and the other lords. Also a fast and fat roll to him would be like a sprint or walking to me. His speed is relative to him. A fat roll would be bad for him since the enemies are around the same level of speed with him. Not that he's only moving the speed of a normal human.Rune Katashima said:
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> Except it isn't since the people who made it should be way below the first flame, and since the chosen undead lit the first flame he should be faster and stronger than the random bell
Not a "random bell" and that's all headcanon. All the Bell does is dispel a lot of clouds and create a barrier for you to stand on. You guys have put too much interest in the Bell calc when the Bell is largely irrelevant to everything. It does some magic, that's all. You can't tell me it's not a magical bell because no real bell of it's size and make can do what it does.
You're performing a logical misstep by attributing any kind of power scaling with it and the first flame. They do different things. The Bell doesn't fight anything and we barely know what the First Flame even IS still. [Edit: Because I'm sure this would get ripped apart. I know the theories. I know them all. Some are loose conjecture, some seem spot on. A lot are just still humble theories.]
You know you're suggesting that enemies in the beginning of the game upgrade to what Chosen Undead or Ashen One are even late in the game? Because their speed remains the same and can keep up with you. What, did they level up to? Oh wait they give the same souls... so I guess not. If your speed is *actually* upgrading then why are enemies in the beginning of the game capable of keeping up with you exactly the same way they did when you first met them?
You're jumping through hoops. That are on fire.
Not a "random bell" and that's all headcanon. All the Bell does is dispel a lot of clouds and create a barrier for you to stand on. You guys have put too much interest in the Bell calc when the Bell is largely irrelevant to everything. It does some magic, that's all. You can't tell me it's not a magical bell because no real bell of it's size and make can do what it does.
You're performing a logical misstep by attributing any kind of power scaling with it and the first flame. They do different things. The Bell doesn't fight anything and we barely know what the First Flame even IS still. [Edit: Because I'm sure this would get ripped apart. I know the theories. I know them all. Some are loose conjecture, some seem spot on. A lot are just still humble theories.]
You know you're suggesting that enemies in the beginning of the game upgrade to what Chosen Undead or Ashen One are even late in the game? Because their speed remains the same and can keep up with you. What, did they level up to? Oh wait they give the same souls... so I guess not. If your speed is *actually* upgrading then why are enemies in the beginning of the game capable of keeping up with you exactly the same way they did when you first met them?
You're jumping through hoops. That are on fire.
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^ The first flame has constantly been stated and shown to be superior to the bell; The Witch of Izalith tried to make a replica of the first flame and got turned into the bed of chaos as a result, and since she can murder stomp hundreds of Everlasting Dragons she should be superior to their Bell (also there's a canon message right before the bell saying nothing will remain after you pull it meaning the creators (both in game and out side game creators) notice it's power)
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"You know you're suggesting that enemies in the beginning of the game upgrade to what Chosen Undead or Ashen One are even late in the game? Because their speed remains the same and can keep up with you. What, did they level up to? Oh wait they give the same souls... so I guess not. If your speed is *actually* upgrading then why are enemies in the beginning of the game capable of keeping up with you exactly the same way they did when you first met them?
You're jumping through hoops. That are on fire." And that my friend is game mechanics just like them hurting you is game mechanics and you not gettig visably faster is game mechanics Or should we just flat out upgrade everybody to top tier status because Early game enemies can kill a fully upgraded chosen undead Granted im iffy on the reletivistic/MHS+ dark souls stuff as well personally But thats because the spells are thrown by people not just cast normally but i disagree with your reasoning of "we dont see them get faster there for they arnt fastet"
You're jumping through hoops. That are on fire." And that my friend is game mechanics just like them hurting you is game mechanics and you not gettig visably faster is game mechanics Or should we just flat out upgrade everybody to top tier status because Early game enemies can kill a fully upgraded chosen undead Granted im iffy on the reletivistic/MHS+ dark souls stuff as well personally But thats because the spells are thrown by people not just cast normally but i disagree with your reasoning of "we dont see them get faster there for they arnt fastet"
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IIRC the Lightning that does come from the sky you aim dodge
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Wait, seriously, the website ate my post.
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> The first flame has constantly been stated and shown to be superior to the bell;
By? (I don't necessarily disagree but I want you to drum up a source)
> and since she can murder stomp hundreds of Everlasting Dragons
No, you're forgetting the herculean effort made by everyone to take down the Everlasting Dragons. Gwyn removed their scales with his lightning. Nito granted them true death. Izalith and her witches vaguely assisted and attempted to recreate the first flame, which failed. Seath provided betrayal (likely info on the Dragons). It wasn't like she was going around curbstomping Dragons like you imply.
> (also there's a canon message right before the bell saying nothing will remain after you pull it meaning the creators (both in game and out side game creators) notice it's power)
It's a cool message but since only clouds and fogs disperse and a barrier is formed for you to walk on and the entire fort still stands just fine without even the slightest change, it's a bit hyperbole, isn't it?
> Or should we just flat out upgrade everybody to top tier status because Early game enemies can kill a fully upgraded chosen undead
That's exactly what I am saying. We either upgrade them because they can continue to keep up, which I think everyone can agree is foolish, or accept CU never gets faster. It's not about their damage potential, they can roll-catch you just the same as ever.
> But thats because the spells are thrown by people not just cast normally but i disagree with your reasoning of "we dont see them get faster there for they arnt fastet"
You can disagree and that's fine but you're going to have to come up with something better "because of game mechanics" because that's basically a NLF. You can make up whatever you want then. Fact is, there aren't actual feats to say he is so fast.
By? (I don't necessarily disagree but I want you to drum up a source)
> and since she can murder stomp hundreds of Everlasting Dragons
No, you're forgetting the herculean effort made by everyone to take down the Everlasting Dragons. Gwyn removed their scales with his lightning. Nito granted them true death. Izalith and her witches vaguely assisted and attempted to recreate the first flame, which failed. Seath provided betrayal (likely info on the Dragons). It wasn't like she was going around curbstomping Dragons like you imply.
> (also there's a canon message right before the bell saying nothing will remain after you pull it meaning the creators (both in game and out side game creators) notice it's power)
It's a cool message but since only clouds and fogs disperse and a barrier is formed for you to walk on and the entire fort still stands just fine without even the slightest change, it's a bit hyperbole, isn't it?
> Or should we just flat out upgrade everybody to top tier status because Early game enemies can kill a fully upgraded chosen undead
That's exactly what I am saying. We either upgrade them because they can continue to keep up, which I think everyone can agree is foolish, or accept CU never gets faster. It's not about their damage potential, they can roll-catch you just the same as ever.
> But thats because the spells are thrown by people not just cast normally but i disagree with your reasoning of "we dont see them get faster there for they arnt fastet"
You can disagree and that's fine but you're going to have to come up with something better "because of game mechanics" because that's basically a NLF. You can make up whatever you want then. Fact is, there aren't actual feats to say he is so fast.
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^ Havel beat dragons to death with one of their teeth, Ornstein has a room with dozens of their heads, and the original owner of the dragonslayer armor (boss from dark souls 3) killed so many dragons to the point of his armor became possessed by the will to hunt (the Abyss corrupted it only to have it go on a murder rampage killing the things that was around it including the things on its side (the dead bodies laying next to him in the Abyss swamp). So I think it's safe to assume Izilath killed a few dragons. The Ashen Ones and/or bed of chaos are what happen if you don't have enough power to link the first flame, you and everyone else is treated like a failure in dark souls 3 (hawkwood is a good example). And saying that the clouds didn't produce energy because the castle is still there is like saying the gem worship from Steven Universe did nothing because it didn't destroy the mountain it landed on. Also no the beginning game enemies don't scale in any way shape or form; you can oneshot them and they are never kill you from the beginning game forward; you have to be standing still for multiple minutes to die to them. (Saying the verse should be downgraded because of fodder beginning game enemies is ridiculous for so many reason that I don't even want to go into). Also it's 4:00 am where I live so I will talk to you later
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Bed of chaos didn't come around from failing to link the first flame The bed of chaos came around because she failed in trying to create a new one
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I would not say she failed. Her Chaos Flame lasted just as long as the First Flame did, without ever being linked. Till the bitter end it kept Demonkind alive. Until the Ringed City, that is. If the Ashen one wouldnt have killed the Demon Prince, Demonkind would have survived since the Flame would have been reborn, lorewise.
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The reason her first flame is considered a failer is because it corrupted her, and everyone With her creating The hostile demons Sure it lasted longer but it didn't do what it wasMeant to do
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This discussion has gone on for a long time. Would someone please make a new thread disscusing what's going on right now please.
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This thread went some places.
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Here's the new thread: https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1480282
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