Dark Tower: New Profiles

[Jason_Voorhees1986]

Do you mean that Imgur deleted many of the images that you uploaded there as evidence? There are ways to more reliably ensure that they remain accessible there.

No, there are some missing links on Pennywise's profile, but I didn't do it and I can't fix it because Pennywise's profile is locked.

 

[Jason_Voorhees1986]

I don't think they're mutually exclusive. Wouldn't the “spider” dying refer to his lesser form? If that were the case then the Deadlights were just there connecting from the True Form to the Avatar. So insofar as “IT” exists still even losing physically to the Loser’s Club then why would that apply to the True Form?

What do you understand from the sentence "THE LIGHT was gone now. It had DIED with the Spider."? I don't know about you but I understand that BOTH OF ITS FORMS DIED TOGETHER. That was the whole purpose of the Ritual of Chüd anyway to completely erase Pennywise.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

What do you understand from the sentence "THE LIGHT was gone now. It had DIED with the Spider."? I don't know about you but I understand that BOTH OF ITS FORMS DIED TOGETHER. That was the whole purpose of the Ritual of Chüd anyway to completely erase Pennywise.

Explain some of these things:

1. Where did Pennywise die? If he died in the physical world, why would it make sense that his entire being/essence follows death after that?

2. If killing the avatar also killed the entitiy itself then can we see the scans that directly affirm this?

 

[Jason_Voorhees1986]

1. Where did Pennywise die? If he died in the physical world, why would it make sense that his entire being/essence follows death after that?

Since the source of the Ritual is Gan, it's quite natural for it to affect both his avatar and the Deadlights.

Suddenly he thought he understood: It meant to thrust him through some wall at the end of the universe and into some other place (what that old Turtle called the macroverse)

where It really lived; where It existed as a titanic, glowing core which might be no more than the smallest mote in that Other's mind; he would see It naked, a thing of unshaped destroying light, and there he would either be mercifully annihilated or live forever, insane and yet conscious inside Its homicidal endless formless hungry being.

And clearly, he heard the Voice of the Other; the Turtle might be dead, but whatever had invested it was not.

"Son, you did real good."

Then it was gone. The power went with it. He felt weak, revulsed, half-insane. He looked over his shoulder and saw the dying black nightmare of the Spider, still jerking and quivering.

"Richie!" He cried out in a hoarse, breaking voice. "Richie, where are you, man?"

Are you aware that you're currently trying to deny something that's stated quite clearly in the book? It might seem absurd to you that Chüd destroys both forms, but that's what it says — that's what actually happens.

2. If killing the avatar also killed the entitiy itself then can we see the scans that directly affirm this?

Is this seriously a joke? The text clearly states that both of them died — it's right there in black and white.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Since the source of the Ritual is Gan, it's quite natural for it to affect both his avatar and the Deadlights.


Are you aware that you're currently trying to deny something that's stated quite clearly in the book? It might seem absurd to you that Chüd destroys both forms, but that's what it says — that's what actually happens.

I'm asking for the scans for extra context. It did help that the ritual itself was powered by Gan, the missing context. So I'm not trying to deny anything, I'm trying to make sense of it.

Is this seriously a joke? The text clearly states that both of them died — it's right there in black and white.

The problem isn't that. The problem is your point about things having “infinite regeneration” to me sounds substancless unless you're arguing that infinite regeneration means the ability to come back from non-existence which seems unrelated to how IT would come back later (If it did at all).

 

[Antvasima]

• Bessa
  • Can't be HDE & BDE, also BDE needs a Type.
  • Immortality Scans aren't making sense.
  • A lot of abilities have no reasoning.
• Gan
  • Same issues of HDE & BDE.
  • NEP doesn't make sense.
  • Incoporeality scans make no sense.
  • Immortality Type 3 is the only thing I see.
  • Nonduality scans don't match reasoning.
  • No such thing has High-Level Plot Manip or Reality Warping.
  • Causality Manipulation not matching scans.
  • Acausality Type 5 has too many anti-feats, Gan has been injuried before.
  • Infinite Regeneration tells us nothing of it's degree.
  • Healing missing references and scans.
  • Improper separation of stats.
• Maturin
  • NEP, Nonduality & Regeneration have same issues as above.
  • Plot Manipulation Resistance is in the middle of abilities, same with Fate.
  • Acausality Type 5 has anti-feats.

I'm not going to keep going. There are too many issues with these profiles, and they need to be heavily edited.

Thank you for helping out. That needs to be corrected then.

 

[Antvasima]

No, there are some missing links on Pennywise's profile, but I didn't do it and I can't fix it because Pennywise's profile is locked.

I will unlock all of the Dark Tower pages for you and Gewsbumpz_dude now.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Bessa

• The BDE part needs to be corrected. I must have forgotten to add the type.
• I’ll probably make it Type 1, since I already removed the regeneration from Bessa’s profile.

Gan

• It’s manageable.
• Why? I asked you this before and you said NEP 1, but the reason I gave NEP 2 is entirely based on TD.

It just isn't NEP based on the scans. I don't know when you asked, but it's not.

• Why was Type 9 immortality removed? It represents the highest threshold among ontologies.

Being the Ultimate Cosmic Power isn't a good enough reason for Type 9.

• This had been accepted on the wiki before (although I wasn’t the one who opened that CRT), but the whole TD3 issue comes from it massively surpassing TD2.

I don't know why, because the Nonduality makes no sense, and has nothing to do with dualities beyond good and evil.

• I’ll probably add a few more panels there; it seems to be something I left unfinished.
• It actually matches — I was just stupid and included the images that should’ve been in the first scan in the second one instead.
• ACA 5 has no anti-feats. The event you mentioned applies to Gan’s avatar — his true form was never harmed.

Even then, transcending everything and being nothing isn't enough for Acausality Type 5. He needs statements of being unchangeable, non-causal, etc.

Maturin

• I already brought up these points when talking about Gan. But regeneration is already being debated in this CRT anyway.
• What?

Resistances don't go in the randomly of the abilities section.

• What kind of anti-feat are you referring to for ACA 5?

The reasoning for Acausality Type 5 isn't enough, and takes too many liberties with the scans. Nothing in those scans is enough for Acausality Type 5.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

OP seems reasonable to me.

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway, yeah, this could have been handled better. Immeasurably better. Both the thread and the rewrites themselves, which are full of fluff and formatting errors (I.E. Resistances are no longer separated from the abilities, or even made clear that they are resistances. Links to abilities are missing. Etc)

I will unlock all of the Dark Tower pages for you and Gewsbumpz_dude now.

@Gewsbumpz_dude

 

[Antvasima]

@Gewsbumpz_dude

Are you willing to help us out here?

 

[Antvasima]

Also, the pages currently seem to have Mid-Godly regeneration instead of Unknown regeneration. That likely also needs to be corrected before we close this thread.

 

[Jason_Voorhees1986]

Also, the pages currently seem to have Mid-Godly regeneration instead of Unknown regeneration. That likely also needs to be corrected before we close this thread.

Yes, that's because it comes back even after it's completely destroyed.

 

[Antvasima]

Had it been completely destroyed in terms of mind, body, and soul? That is the requirement for Mid-Godly Regeneration.

 

[Jason_Voorhees1986]

Had it been completely destroyed in terms of mind, body, and soul? That is the requirement for Mid-Godly Regeneration.

Yes. The Deadlights are known as both Pennywise's true form and its mind.

Now the mind of the writer's wife was with It, in It, beyond the end of the macroverse; in the darkness beyond the Turtle; in the outlands beyond all lands. She was in Its eye; She was in Its mind. She was in the deadlights.

Suddenly he thought he understood: It meant to hrust him through some wall at the end of the universe and into some other place (what that old Turtle called the macroverse) where It really lived; where It existed as a titanic, glowing core which might be no more than the smallest mote in that Other's mind; he would see It naked, a thing of unshaped destroying light, and there he would either be mercifully annihilated or live forever, insane and yet conscious inside Its homicidal endless formless hungry being.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. That is probably fine then. Thank you for your explanation.

 

[Antvasima]

I have locked this thread due to a request from Jason.