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The following source is fan made content and as such, it and the corresponding material for which it is used as a source needs to be removed as it is not a work published by or officially recognized by DC Comics - “DC Comics Encyclopedia - Superhero handbook by wikipedians”
Thank you! My curiosity of Pre-Crisis DC really took me far
I thought so, about this source, though that part is a tad bit convoluted but also sourced by other - indeed proper and reliable - scans
I'll leave it there, as my intent was to make OP better to read, whatever gets approved here will get a properly worked Cosmology Page and most certainly not that source
Most of the information seems solid, especially about the nature of higher dimensions being contained within single universes. I will say that it is confusing to have information from Post-Crisis books present in the collection, since that muddies the water if this is going to be a pure Pre-Crisis split or just an addition to the general Crisis cosmology (or whatever).
I would also like to point out that, although the numerous statements for an infinite-sized universe are good, the scans about the reverse universe to explicitly referencethe concept of a large but finite-sized universe. I'm not against an infinite universe, especially with the overwhelming amount of statements, but it's worth acknowledging the counter-evidence.
I would also like to point out that, although the numerous statements for an infinite-sized universe are good, the scans about the reverse universe to explicitly referencethe concept of a large but finite-sized universe.
Overall, not much really changes from this. The two big things are the entirety of the Pre-Crisis multiverse (accounting for all the levels) being High-1B and Limbo being a beyond dimensional realm (Type-1) as such it is Low-1A. The only character that scales to Limbo is The Adjudicator and his masters The Overseers.
Overall, not much really changes from this. The two big things are the entirety of the Pre-Crisis multiverse (accounting for all the levels) being High-1B and Limbo being a beyond dimensional realm (Type-1) as such it is Low-1A. The only character that scales to Limbo is The Adjudicator and his masters The Overseers.
It doesn’t change anything regarding the Jaxon feat or any other Pre-Crisis feats whatsoever. Higher dimensions literally have nothing to do with the branching timelines of a universe for which the Jaxon feat is applicable.
Hal MIGHT have the capacity to scale to High-1B but that is ONLY after he absorbs the energy left over from COIE.
God Machine Brainiac is a 1A being so this has no impact on him. He just hasn’t been upgraded because neither DC Comics themselves nor the fans care or remember much of anything about Convergence.
Speedsters have access to a 1A power source so a High-1B feat means nothing.
When the word multiverse is being used, it is in relation to the complete set of parallel worlds and timelines not higher dimensions.
It doesn’t change anything regarding the Jaxon feat or any other Pre-Crisis feats whatsoever. Higher dimensions literally have nothing to do with the branching timelines of a universe for which the Jaxon feat is applicable.
Hal MIGHT have the capacity to scale to High-1B but that is ONLY after he absorbs the energy left over from COIE.
God Machine Brainiac is a 1A being so this has no impact on him. He just hasn’t been upgraded because neither DC Comics themselves nor the fans care or remember much of anything about Convergence.
Speedsters have access to a 1A power source so a High-1B feat means nothing.
When the word multiverse is being used, it is in relation to the complete set of parallel worlds and timelines not higher dimensions.
Parallax defeated Deimos, a being more powerful than Telos who has all of the power of the time masters, effortlessly.
After becoming The God Machine, Brainiac explicitly ascended beyond the power of the gods of the universe which includes skyfathers like Zeus and others. He then became, as the DC Book describes, a plunderer of timelines behind the multiverse. He is easily able to extract timelines from Hypertime, depowering and imprisoning the inhabitants including Parallax Hal.
While God Machine Brainiac has some stupid moments like being imprisoned by Mister Terrific’s T-Spheres or being disconnected from all of his avatars by a weakened New-52 Superman (who is already by far the weakest version of the character) these are just PIS related outliers. God Machine Brainiac explicitly exists as a godly entity beyond the Speed Force Wall and The Blood Moon was even temporarily embedded inside of it.
After becoming The God Machine, Brainiac explicitly ascended beyond the power of the gods of the universe which includes skyfathers like Zeus and others.
1. depowering someone doesnt mean you have qualitive 1A Reality to fiction transcendence over them, power nullification is a hax and god machine could have it higher in scaling or layered than the characters
None of that even matters as Telos’ power comes from Brainiac.
It has already been discussed that there are numerous PIS moments related to Convergence and God Machine Brainiac. The event is not something that DC put much effort into as it, and the comics surrounding it, exists only to fill in the gap in their publications as they moved their office from York City to Burbank, California. There is a reason that is practically never mentioned again afterwards and is totally ignored.
Anyway please focus on the actual topic of the thread as this is not important.
None of that even matters as Telos’ power comes from Brainiac.
It has already been discussed that there are numerous PIS moments related to Convergence and God Machine Brainiac. The event is not something that DC put much effort into as it, and the comics surrounding it, exists only to fill in the gap in their publications as they moved their office from York City to Burbank, California. There is a reason that is practically never mentioned again afterwards and is totally ignored.
Anyway please focus on the actual topic of the thread as this is not important.
Brainiac only erase the memories from a holding back telos as he did not want to scare his family with his powers
I want sources of these "discussions that have been done before on for god machine brainiac and convergence" cuz this should be very much listed in his page
I do not think moving workplaces excuses this......weird scaling but I would also like a source on this as well
I am asking a question regarding this topic?
Because many characters from the golden age/silver age have affected post crisis characters
And the first crisis being replicated a lot of times in post crisis times
I'm not asking for a list of names but am just asking if there would be some post crisis characters scaling to this because it seems like there should
Anyway, from what I understand in this post, The multiverse = high 1B
The anti monitor destroyed that high 1B multiverse and absorbed it, battled the amp spectre too
Zero hour is accepted on this wiki to be same scale of destruction as what the anti monitor did in crisis on infinite earths if the spectre hadn't intervened
With god machine also being equal to the person who was gonna made zero hour happened again
People from post crisis making pre crisis destruction but not scaling them to it is weird
Maybe specifying what level is being aiming to, and it feels kinda weird using Post Crisis scans for this, isn't this supposed to be a Pre Crisis only thread?
Maybe specifying what level is being aiming to, and it feels kinda weird using Post Crisis scans for this, isn't this supposed to be a Pre Crisis only thread?
The OP never actually proposed any tiering so at the moment there is no tiering to agree with.
The two main things that can be extracted from the posted information is that the Pre-Crisis Multiverse has infinite layers which would qualify for High-1B. Limbo, the highest realm in the Pre-Crisis cosmology, is a beyond dimensional realm (Type 1) as such it is Low-1A.
While it is cool to see more Pre-Crisis stuff added, this does not change the statistics of many characters. The Anti-Monitor would likely be upgraded. The Adjudicator and The Overseers would be the only characters that would scale to Limbo; however, they only show up in 4 comic issues in Pre-Crisis so they don’t meet the qualifications of having a profile. The interesting thing about the Adjudicator is he shows up for 3 issues in Justice League of America Vol5 in Rebirth and it is directly implied that he was unaffected by COIE as he says he has witnessed “many cycles of the multiverse”.
The OP never actually proposed any tiering so at the moment there is no tiering to agree with.
The two main things that can be extracted from the posted information is that the Pre-Crisis Multiverse has infinite layers which would qualify for High-1B. Limbo, the highest realm in the Pre-Crisis cosmology, is a beyond dimensional realm (Type 1) as such it is Low-1A.
While it is cool to see more Pre-Crisis stuff added, this does not change the statistics of many characters. The Anti-Monitor would likely be upgraded. The Adjudicator and The Overseers would be the only characters that would scale to Limbo; however, they only show up in 4 comic issues in Pre-Crisis so they don’t meet the qualifications of having a profile. The interesting thing about the Adjudicator is he shows up for 3 issues in Justice League of America Vol5 in Rebirth and it is directly implied that he was unaffected by COIE as he says he has witnessed “many cycles of the multiverse”.
He might even be Low-1A. While he doesn’t scale directly to Limbo, he is the strongest Pre-Crisis villain and should logically be stronger than The Adjudicator or The Overseers as the greatest threat to existence.
He might even be Low-1A. While he doesn’t scale directly to Limbo, he is the strongest Pre-Crisis villain and should logically be stronger than The Adjudicator or The Overseers as the greatest threat to existence.
By reworking the OP and reading our tiering system, here's what i think could be proposed by OP (and that an admin could add together with the blog link for convenience sake):
The shorter TLDR, for OP addition
Hyperspace & The Bleed = Low 1-C, 1-C (R^6)
Mr. Mxyzptlk & 5th Dimension = 1-C (R^7)
Star Sapphire's Higher-Dimension Manipulation = 1-C (R^9)
Nth dimension = At least 1-C (R^8), likely High 1-B
Universe = Low 1-A
Multiverse, Darkworld's Nexus and Harbinger of the Anti-Monitor = 1-A+
Transcendent worlds:
The End of Time, The Astral Plane, Aethyr and The Middle Place/Limbo = At least Low 1-A+
The Green = Low 1-A, Possibly Low 1-A+
Wave Of Entropy / Time Trapper = 1-A+
Antimatter = 1-A+
The longer TLDR, for discussing with the fellas around here
Hyperspace & The Bleed = Low 1-C, 1-C (R^6)
Hyperspace connects 3-D to 4-D, being beyond those
The Bleed is verbatim between layers of reality
Mr. Mxyzptlk & 5th Dimension = 1-C (R^7)
Since they're "two infinities beyond" 3-D they should be beyond Hyperspace and The Bleed as well
Star Sapphire's Higher-Dimension Manipulation = 1-C (R^9)
Considering her 2 infinities above 5th dimension
If there's anyone who scales to 24th dimension of the cosmos = 1-B (R^26)
For being infinities above like 5th dimension and Star Sapphire
Nth dimension = At least 1-C (R^8), likely High 1-B
For the "R^8", it's due to being claimed to be beyond 5th Dimension
For the High 1-B, it's by being stated to "occupy infinite dimensions"
Universe and Rock of Eternity = Low 1-A
Mr. Mxyzptlk says that all universes have a 5th dimension of their own, which should be true for all other aforementioned dimensions as well
The latter can access "all of time and space" so if not entirely in the tier, it should belong with a "Possibly" beside it
Multiverse, Darkworld's Nexus and Harbinger of the Anti-Monitor = 1-A+
By the virtue of being comprised of infinite universes and timelines
"the Multiverse comprises a hierarchy of universes in which another universe is referred to as a next dimension of space and an outer space"
The multiverse has infinite layers of existence
Darkworld's Nexus can access all dimensions and worlds of the Multiverse
The latter is verbatim "a library of all realities, timelines, and universes"
Transcendent worlds:
The End of Time, The Astral Plane, Aethyr and The Middle Place/Limbo = At least Low 1-A+
All have some capacity of being "outside of the Universe", lacking time and/or space or just being outside of those
The Green = Low 1-A, Possibly Low 1-A+
Transcending "mathematics and all numbers" may mean The Green is transcending the laws of the Universe, therefore itself, but it is by far the weakest claim of any high tier in this thread. For "The Green being everywhere" being something stated and implied many times by multiple sources (unfortunately outside of this thread) we can at least say it can comprehend all of the Universe
Wave Of Entropy / Time Trapper = 1-A+
By being stated to be able to destroy all of the Multiverse, should be on the same tier as it
Antimatter = 1-A+
By being stated to being able to destroy the Multiverse and Time Trapper
By reworking the OP and reading our tiering system, here's what i think could be proposed by OP (and that an admin could add together with the blog link for convenience sake):
The shorter TLDR, for OP addition
Hyperspace & The Bleed = Low 1-C, 1-C (R^6)
Mr. Mxyzptlk & 5th Dimension = 1-C (R^7)
Star Sapphire's Higher-Dimension Manipulation = 1-C (R^9)
Nth dimension = At least 1-C (R^8), likely High 1-B
Universe = Low 1-A
Multiverse, Darkworld's Nexus and Harbinger of the Anti-Monitor = 1-A+
Transcendent worlds:
The End of Time, The Astral Plane, Aethyr and The Middle Place/Limbo = At least Low 1-A+
The Green = Low 1-A, Possibly Low 1-A+
Wave Of Entropy / Time Trapper = 1-A+
Antimatter = 1-A+
The longer TLDR, for discussing with the fellas around here
Hyperspace & The Bleed = Low 1-C, 1-C (R^6)
Hyperspace connects 3-D to 4-D, being beyond those
The Bleed is verbatim between layers of reality
Mr. Mxyzptlk & 5th Dimension = 1-C (R^7)
Since they're "two infinities beyond" 3-D they should be beyond Hyperspace and The Bleed as well
Star Sapphire's Higher-Dimension Manipulation = 1-C (R^9)
Considering her 2 infinities above 5th dimension
If there's anyone who scales to 24th dimension of the cosmos = 1-B (R^26)
For being infinities above like 5th dimension and Star Sapphire
Nth dimension = At least 1-C (R^8), likely High 1-B
For the "R^8", it's due to being claimed to be beyond 5th Dimension
For the High 1-B, it's by being stated to "occupy infinite dimensions"
Universe and Rock of Eternity = Low 1-A
Mr. Mxyzptlk says that all universes have a 5th dimension of their own, which should be true for all other aforementioned dimensions as well
The latter can access "all of time and space" so if not entirely in the tier, it should belong with a "Possibly" beside it
Multiverse, Darkworld's Nexus and Harbinger of the Anti-Monitor = 1-A+
By the virtue of being comprised of infinite universes and timelines
"the Multiverse comprises a hierarchy of universes in which another universe is referred to as a next dimension of space and an outer space"
The multiverse has infinite layers of existence
Darkworld's Nexus can access all dimensions and worlds of the Multiverse
The latter is verbatim "a library of all realities, timelines, and universes"
Transcendent worlds:
The End of Time, The Astral Plane, Aethyr and The Middle Place/Limbo = At least Low 1-A+
All have some capacity of being "outside of the Universe", lacking time and/or space or just being outside of those
The Green = Low 1-A, Possibly Low 1-A+
Transcending "mathematics and all numbers" may mean The Green is transcending the laws of the Universe, therefore itself, but it is by far the weakest claim of any high tier in this thread. For "The Green being everywhere" being something stated and implied many times by multiple sources (unfortunately outside of this thread) we can at least say it can comprehend all of the Universe
Wave Of Entropy / Time Trapper = 1-A+
By being stated to be able to destroy all of the Multiverse, should be on the same tier as it
Antimatter = 1-A+
By being stated to being able to destroy the Multiverse and Time Trapper
I think that may be an exaggeration. There is nothing that has any description that would allow for any ratings beyond low-1A.
The Pre-Crisis Cosmology caps with places like Limbo which are transdimensional and The Green which is beyond mathematics which also qualifies for Low-1A.
There are no statements of primacy / unreachable distinction between levels that grant qualitative superiority.
Well, the definition of universe has IMO been enough to be described as Low 1-A, and there are quite a bunch of stuff OP has addressed that go beyond it
How would infinitely layered Low 1-A still be Low 1-A? Also, ain't the definition of 1-A be "is qualitatively better than [insert Low 1-A and lower tiers]", for short?
Low-1A goes on forever and can be extended to any degree necessary. As long as there are no definitive statements of primacy / complete and total detachment from lower reality / absolute unreachability / Reality Fiction transcendence etc, you can just keep adding layers into Low-1A. There is no end point to the Low-1A tier as either something is qualitatively superior or it is not, there is nothing in between. There is no point where suddenly a being can reach qualitative transcendence from below.
No amount of infinite transcendences can ever reach 1A under any condition as these are merely mathematical modifiers while 1A requires clear qualitative difference.
Unfortunately, the information here does not meet any of the strict requirements needed to have a 1A or higher rating.
No amount of infinite transcendences can ever reach 1A under any condition as these are merely mathematical modifiers while 1A requires clear qualitative difference.
the multiverse being comprised of infinite over infinite amounts of universes on the way that is described is quite clearly "qualitatively superior to Low 1-A"
An example of a baseline 1A realm would be something that is totally unreachable by any resident of the multiverse. That no amount of material power can reach under any circumstance. With the only way that access is achieved being through a residence of the 1A realm giving power to a lower being. Power provided in this way is really just the 1A being operating through the lower being as a non 1A being has no capacity to interact with 1A power on their own.
I think the multiverse would just be like Low 1-A+ rather than 1-A. There doesn't seem to be anything suggesting a legitimate qualitative superiority. The multiverse could be comprised of uncountably infinite universes and it still wouldn't be 1-A.
And on another note The Fury of Firestorm (the old one) has Apokolips reside in its own separate space-time in relation to the COIE event so maaaybe we can get low 1-A New Gods too?
Like here in Pre-Crisis Thw Fourth World was impressed and separate space-time continuum that saw time collapse in on itself and multiple timelines merge into one as be was an observer of those worlds dying in The Crisis (COIE) I feel with this on its own you could make 5D args but with the scope of COIE now revealed it should be one of the low outer realms imo
