Delsin Rowe vs James Heller

[Elgb333]

I'm actually suprised no one has ever made this match-up. Today we'll be pitting two sequel-successor

protagonist to two of the most popular sandbox games in history. Delsin Rowe from infamous second son vs James Heller from prototype 2.
Round 1: Good Karma Delsin Rowe vs James Heller before he absorbed Mercer.

Round 2: Bad Karma Delsin Rowe vs Fully-Powered James Heller. Both are bloodlusted.

Round 3: Same rules as round 1 but both have prep time (1 day).

Both rounds take place in a neutral city.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Huh. I'm surprised too. Well... honestly James would have the DC advantage but Delsin has the speed. With prep time James can get an army up, but it's out of character so he'll likely just stock up on biomass and try to counter Delsin's energy attacks while Delsin tries to overload himself with new powers and abilities.

That said I think Delsin wins the first round due to his lasers and other useful abilities. Bloodlusted is trickier but I still lean on Delsin due to speed. And James probably has it on the last round.

That said... I have to clarify I don't think James' tentacles at the end of Prototype 2 reached the top of skyscrapers. Did it?

 

[Elgb333]

Thanks for the vote. Also I'm not really sure with his tentacles though. They were large enough to fill every streets in New York, but skyscrapers size and length? I don't think so.

Also this is going to be one vs one battle. So Heller will not have any army with him.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Should probably revise that. And ah. Well I still lean on Heller because Science Rules!!!

But yeah still has my vote.

 

[Elgb333]

Do you think that heller can hurt Delsin though? From what I remember in most forums concerning Delsin, most of you guys state that he's almost invulnerable from conventional and physical attacks because his body is made out of smoke, energy or something. And all of Heller's attacks are physical as far as I can tell.

But i could be wrong though.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Someone argued their case that Delsin can't heal from being decapitated. Issue is he's hard to decapitate since he could just technically turn into about a thousand particles and reform. On the other hand that might be the basis for him healing off dismembered arms. But yeah if James can get a good shot in or bypass that it would be his win.

 

[PTSOXMONKEY99]

Arguments for Delsin: Faster travel speed (allows him to easily escape Heller's attacks), equal in combat speed (won't be blitzed), better range, better ranged attacks, versatility, intangibility via Smoke and Neon dash

Arguments for Heller: Higher Attack Potency, Higher Durability, Higher reaction speed, better Regenerationn, has some ranged attacks (Medusa's Wrath, shockwaves), can lower Delsin's gravity via Anti-Gravity, Warp Vortex, can possibly infect Delsin with the virus, can possibly enter an Evolved form, can possibly enter a Mother/Father form.

So basically, if Heller lands one good shot on Delsin when he's not intangible, that's it.

Even with prep, Delsin might not be able to pull it off. Remember, Delsin has to find a Core Relay just to further develop ONE power, meaning while Delsin's running around for Relays just to only get few upgrades, Heller can easily bulk up on biomass and potentially make an army. Delsin just doesn't have enough raw power to take down Heller.

I give this to Heller with mid-difficulty.

 

[Elgb333]

Nice votes guys! So far:

Delsin Rowe: 1

James Heller: 1

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

I voted for Delsin the first two rounds tho. Also I doubt DLC powers count, someone argued for that before and was rejected. I don't think you can infect something made out of primarily energy either.

 

[PTSOXMONKEY99]

But the powers are listed on this wiki under attacks and techniques, so I'm guessing they're accepted in this case.

And like I said, Heller has a WAY higher Attack Potency. He is at City level. Delsin is at Multi-City Block level. This is sort of a mismatch.

And like I said before, it's debatable whether or not these guys are made of energy all the time. They clearly have internal organs, cause if they didn't, Fetch wouldn't have been effected by those drugs, and Delsin wouldn't cough when a DUP agent would throw a smoke grenade before he absorbed it. Even Kessler, a guy who, like Cole, is supposed to be immune to most conventional toxins, poisons and diseases was able to get drunk. This all leads to them having internal organs. This means they are at risk of being infected.

HOWEVER, I think there is a chance that Delsin's body could fight of the virus. Conduits have shown to be able to fight of sicknesses pretty easily, they were completely immune to the Ray Sphere plague, a disease so deadly that it killed people hours after they first showed symptoms of having it. The fact that Delsin could also turn into smoke/neon/radio waves means that the virus is going to have a hard time adapting to his constantly changing body structure.

 

[Elgb333]

While James Heller can dish out more damage than Delsin, he's just that; a guy who uses too much brute force. His powers are all built towards physical destruction and nothing more.

Delsin may not have the same attack potency but his powers are far more vesatile for me. He can pseudoteleport with his smoke dashes, summon familiars and become invisible with video, use radiant sweep to make Heller levitate and continiously spam him, and much much more. Delsin doesn't need to kill Heller to win, just enough to overpwoer him with his variety of ranged attacks are enough.

Granted Delsin still needs to absorb energy sources to do so but a bustling city offers alot for him to use.

 

[PTSOXMONKEY99]

While Delsin definitely has more versatility and range, he simply just doesn't have enough power to put Heller down. Not only is Delsin's AP leagues below Heller's durability (which is also City level), Heller can also regenerate on a cellular level. Meaning that unless Delsin can destroy every one of Heller's cells, Hellers just gonna regain biomass and regenerate. While Delsin has incinerated/vaporized people in the past, those people usually had durability comparible to himself. He never fought someone in Heller's league.

While it is true that Heller relys on brute force, don't forget that he also has military training as well as the memories of everyone he has absorbed, meaning he has the experience of every soldier, scientist and government leader he has consumed, giving him a huge advantage in tactical thinking. Also, don't forget that Heller is prone to angry outbursts. While this usually plays in favor of the opponent, this just means that Heller is going to just say "screw it" and unleash his best moves. Meaning that once he gets annoyed with Delsin buzzing around him trying to sting him to death, he's just gonna unleash a tendril barrage that can cover an entire city in seconds.

 

[Elgb333]

Damn that was some profound words PTSO. I never really thought how big of a mismatch this battle is when I made it (probably why no one has ever attempted to do it).

I'll just leave this battle as it is right now:

Delsin Rowe: 1

James Heller: 1

 

[TeenAngel101]

Delsin wins. His attacks can vaporize people, and Heller has never dealt with energy attacks before, plus speed advantage and dematerialization.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Issue is, James cannot unleash said city level Devastator without getting interrupted with a laser through the brain. Or at least a distracting move. And.. Delsin can just turn into energy to fully dodge that devastator. Although then again I argued for a case before of Town to higher Delsin because of fighting Eugene and being comparable to Cole MacGrath due to threat level.

 

[TeenAngel101]

What about speed? Being Massively Hypersonic+ due to being specifically stated to be twice as fast as Cole?

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Where's the source for that? Gonna sleep now so link me the source. Unless you're talking about photon based attacks then definitely.

 

[TeenAngel101]

I can't find a link to a specific source, but Sucker Punch co-founder Chris Zimmerman stated that Delsin is twice as fast as Cole.

 

[PTSOXMONKEY99]

He said he could parkour twice as fast as Cole, meaning that he has faster movement speed, which really isn't that unbelievable seeing how light of foot Delsin is compared to Cole.

 

[Elgb333]

Bump

 

[Elgb333]

Bump

 

[Elgb333]

Bump

 

[Killermoves]

Heller. Delsin may have the niftier powers but they are severely underpowered to take down James. Even if Delsin can turn phantasmal with his smoke and other elements, if he ever turns back to his physical form and gets hit by james, just one bit would be enough to cripple or even kill him.

 

[Elgb333]

Bump

 

[Josif1]

Voting the Prototype for the reasons mentioned above. He has the advantage in stats and Delsin can't remain untouchable foerever

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Unless you guys want a stomp you better stick to the lower tiers. That's not entirely a debate. Also switching my vote for Delsin. Foreign elements are foreign and he still has very high mobility oriented groups of moves, Regenerationn, and the likelihood of being comparale to Delsin on the first place.

 

[Legion350]

I'm voting James Heller for the above reasons.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

You guys realize the above reasons kinda are hard to apply when Delsin literally can move at light speed?

 

[Legion350]

His Light Speed is just travel speed.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Right so what's exactly stopping him from turning into light the moment James gets too close, leave him and start barraging him from afar before he can even finish that motion?

Also Delsin does have an attack that has him tackling people with a light speed dash so...

 

[PTSOXMONKEY99]

Heller does have the faster reaction speed, meaning there is little chance Delsin can touch him outside of his Neon form. Also, if he isn't careful, Heller can use his superior combat training + superior reactions + his absorption abilities to consume Delsin.

Really, if Delsin doesn't take this fight seriously and get to a source of Neon quick and use his range, there is little he can do to stop Heller. He can evade him for sure, and he can utilize hit and run tactics to slow him down, but it won't help against Heller's annoyingly high regen.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Been meaning to ask that, why does dodging or reacting to a grenade launcher hypersonic? From what I've seen it's only 76 m/s with this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M203_grenade_launcher M203, not the one he dodged but still quite close. So why is is hypersonic? There's also the issue that I repeated before that if that Evolved really did perform a sonic boom, the area around him would be blown away. Also someone recently gave me the idea and argued on how Delsin and Neon dealt with lasers before.

Regenerationn can be overwhelmed as seen from Alex's boss fight. James wasn't consuming his biomass that time but he wasn't able to regenerate near the end. Clearly there's a limit to this annoyingly high regen.

 

[PTSOXMONKEY99]

His regen only slows down when he's low on biomass. When his amount of stored biomass is high, he can easily heal from fatal wounds. As we saw with Alex, he'd have to lose a severe amount of biomass several times in order for his regen to stop working. Until then, he can keep fighting just as well as when he was a full health.

Delsin on the other hand, can only take so much damage before his healing factor starts to be overwhelmed by the amount of damage he's sustained, whereas Heller's healing factor is effected by the amount of biomass he has. Del can easily withstand a hail of bullets, rockets and concrete shards, but if he keeps getting hit, his healing factor will simply just stop working.

The lack of sonic boom effects can probably be summed up to lazy animation, which is, in all honesty, [PROTOTYPE] 2's least worry. I'm still iffy on the Neon laser thing, so I'm just gonna stay silent on the matter.

 

[Josif1]

What's the score ?

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

So basically when he takes too much damage. Which is effectively any combat scenario for him. In game his Regenerationn is hampered and he couldn't regenerate through James' attacks. The same for James, and Alex in the previous game when taking too much damage. Regardless Delsin has the capability to keep damaging him.

You are quite aware that he could literally just get away with any of the plethora of his abilities right? It's the same case for James either way. And he has never dealt with lasers either, especially lasers that 7 years ago could puncture through human bodies. And with the conduit getting stronger over time, it's only fair since a lot of people are fans of "Prototype gets stronger over time". There's also the issue that Delsin could just drain concrete from anywhere and before you argue that he can only drain from a certain source, I'm going to ask why can't Alex just consume a tiny part of someone's body and infiltrate the world military like a protagonist that avoids killing as much as possible? Gameplay limitations.

That doesn't excuse it either. If that was the case about several other franchises would get the same treatment.

What's to be iffy about? It's actual photons. Either way it's still not gonna be easy to dodge especially if James is blinded or floating.

 

[PTSOXMONKEY99]

What I'm saying is that Hellen's healing would allow home to shrug off more sever damage and keep in the fight. Alex Mercer could regenerate bullet wounds in seconds, and could shrug off an entire military base explosion. Heller's "head" is just there for show, and he could easily keep fighting even if it were blown off. Delsin can't fight through those kinds of injuries, and would need to get to a power source in order to heal, which would take time and leave him vulnerable.

And his Concrete powers aren't really gonna do anything to Heller. His lack of a bone structure makes him nigh-immune to blunt force trauma, and since Heller is most likely bulletproof by the end of the game (consumed Alex Mercer) Concrete is literally the most useless tool in Delsin's arsenal. Heller can punch right through it easily. It's only good for healing, and once Heller figures out that Delsin can heal via Conrete, Heller can utilize anti-gravity to make Del float, and then finish him off.

I'm iffy because some guy I've been talking to has been suggesting that's neon in an ionized form. And even if it were light, it's not like anyone in game has dodged a beam, so it would still only apply to his attack speed and travel speed.

Yes, I know about Delsin's plethora of abilities, but when considering Heller's AP, durability, regen advantage, most of Delsin's powers are now moot. Smoke? Heller can shrug off RPG and military base explosions. Concrete? Heller's survived worse. His only powers that are gonna help him here are his Video and Neon, due their Invisibility, Summoning, gravity manipulation and Travel speed, but even then, its not enough put Heller down. If even one piece of Heller is left, it's just gonna latch onto Delsin and consume him, creating the worlds first Conduit-Prototype.

Also, now that I think about it, Heller has the range advantage. His tendrals can cover all the streets in a city, meaning Heller can spike Delsin from the other side of a city.

Heller can also one-shot with a Bio-Bomb.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Shrug off an explosion? You mean how he tricked the Hunters to be trapped in the explosives? Either way you realize Delsin's a far level from bullets and explosions right? I don't deny that Delsin is visually not as great as James right now (Although then again a guy who can transform to various particles of energy is a lot likely to regenerate when there have been other beings who can recover said organs and head from being shattered...) . You make it seem like Delsin has to look around everywhere when the very world around him is filled with energy. Their clashes would cause vehicles to explode scattering smoke, Delsin can climb skyscrapers and fight in midair with much more ease, and can transform to energy that can go through gaps.

The same concrete power that allowed him to swat away the DUP Commandos that are basically Super Soldiers. You realize high end conduits make tanks seem like nothing? And the DUP is supposed to handle them. Oh lack of bone structure. That's why you take damage from enemies right? That's why you can beat up other Evolved with ease right? Right, because lasers and superheated energies are totally like bullets and that Delsin's output is only bullet level right? YES. BECAUSE JAMES SHOWED GRAVITY POWERS IN CANON. RIGHT? RIGHT? It's a DLC power up. It's DLC. Nothing more. Nothing less. Don't. Use. It. It's already been rejected before.

So attack speed of light speed is still a massive advantage over a guy who's debatable hypersonic. And would you look at that I got ignored over questioning why a grenade launcher making him hypersonic. Oh this is Toph vs Gaara again. It's just regular concrete isn't it? Because concrete in real life totally let you make bullets and explosives. Becuase real life neon and digital pixels totally aren't harmful to you and ARE SOMETHING THAT JAMES DEALT WITH right? Because that perfectly makes sense with the amount of abilities he have right? I mean if we had him face lightning he would just shrug it off right? And oh wait let me use that logic, Delsin has dealt with a giant person made of concrete that's completely untouched by any attack such as his laser and whatnot. That totally means he's way better right? The way James is being wanked here is excessive. He is not going to keep fighting when he's reduced to a freaking goop. I mean, where was that in Alex's final scene? Where? You keep ignoring the part that "TAKING DAMAGE" === "LOSING BIOMASS" === "LOSING REGEN"

.... Right.... You know I talked about with a guy making fun of how he needed all of Alex's Mercer's biomass, the Evolved's biomass, and the fact that he didn't even entirely cover everything and yet people seem to love wanking that. Just Christ....

Yes, oneshot a being of particles. That would work. You realize how easy to interrupt a Devastator charge up is? Alright, let's also try hitting something elusive. Would the situation be any more different for Cole who's not able to transform into energy?

Either way, you make it seem like lightspeed is something James regularly deals with.


He hasn't dealt with lightspeed tackles.

He hasn't dealt with lasers.

He hasn't dealt with conduits who can beat up the DUP who are supposed to be on a minimum stronger than the past conduits, which have a nice record of beating up the military by the way.

James cannot regenerated from a single atom and keep figthing like the freaking Beast.

He hasn't dealt with guys who can convert into energy.

He hasn't dealt with people that can keep dodging him and has a massive speed advantage.

And how the hell would he deal with a situation where all the sources of biomass he has disappear?

Hell Delsin even has his own stealth factor with the live action trailer but I'm trying to avoid that. Even when you're freaking using non-canon DLC powers.


Delsin. Wins. The guy who can use light as his power, and can literally keep poking and outspeeding James whose only saving grace is his Regenerationn and durability, is not... going to stand a chance against an enemy he can never hit.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Jesus didn't expect it to be that long.... But man there's something pretty annoying when you argued your case against Prototype fans before and refuted all their points but they just keep coming back.... Especially considering Delsin's speed... Really, there's nothing James can do.


And I'm still calling on that bullshit speed that no one else is defending.

 

[PTSOXMONKEY99]

This is gonna turn into the Delsin vs Corvo case all over again, where we argue in circles for days on end bringing evidence and new points to refute each other's argument.

I'm gonna say this right now, I stand by my vote for the reasons above. Heller has the stat, regen and range advantage. He has also, on technicality, dealt with energy based attacks before (absorbed Alex Mercer, who fought Elizabeth Greene).

I in all honesty, was just trying to keep this dude's thread alive, cause I saw potential and I know the feeling that comes when nobody comments on your thread that you thought was cool. But I don't have the time to get into these huge debates right now due to a lot of crazy shit coming up, so I'm just gonna have to give an abridged reasoning.

Just put me down for Heller for reasons above.

 

[Elgb333]

I think both of you can end your argument by having to agree to disagree. Both of you made some good points and your votes are valid, but since threads are democratic the vote of the majority still decides who win.

So far the votes are (and correct me if I'm wrong)

Delsin: 2

Heller: 4

Also PTSOXMONKEY99, I don't mind if no one votes on this thread. I'm happy enough that a Delsin vs Heller thread exists in this wiki that people can look up.