Deltarune: Chapter 5 (SPOILER!!) Discussion Thread

[Edutyn]

I did a quick calc (i will later put everything on a blog) and this is what a got:

Pink is 1.7m tall while the giant pink/ghost pink is 13m tall

Pink explosion can go from 9-A to Low 7-C

 

[Echidnacodefan2512]

Scaling so bad it's making me agree with twitter.com

Nha i dont belive in bad takes, sorry man

 

[Jepilstiltskin]

Apparently, you can't turn it back on in this room after Flowery says all of that. I guess he really does respect Kris's wishes and leaves it off for that one room.

We genuinely can't turn it back on, almost as if he's forcing the setting to remain off. So I think this pretty much debunks the whole “this isn't manipulation” argument (well, your scan already did that, but this serves as additional supporting evidence, anyway).

 

[Jepilstiltskin]

Oh yeah, Jevil has VOICE CLIPS too. I mean, I'm not even surprised. The guy literally went insane after realizing he's inside a game. He probably figured out the CONFIG menu as well and gave himself all sorts of extra settings, including voice.

We should index this to his profile too.

 

[Comiphorous]

All I'm seeing is, “It's non-serious, so we shouldn't count it as a win condition”, which, for the sake of stating the obvious, is just cherry-picking. The same logic could be applied to practically every segment in this chapter. Flowery having absurdly high stats? Nope, just a five-minute gag, can't use it. Flowery somehow hearing us even when he isn't present? Nooope, that's a gag too.

It's not cherry picking to point out that the 5 minute gag that is never brought up again and shouldn't be used as an actual in-character thing he would do in a fight, or be capable of being used in such capacity in the first place since we literally fight the guy and he doesn't use it in anywhere close to the way you're gassing it up here.

If we're going to dismiss things solely because they're presented humorously, then we'd have to start dismissing a huge portion of what the chapter actually establishes. Because, buddy, all of them ARE 5 minute tops gag, lol.

Not what i said. It's a 5 minute gag that is never used and never implied to do anything above what it's shown. Suggesting otherwise in NLF.

So, is it weak because it's a gag or not? You're saying it is one moment, then saying it isn't the next. Be consistent.

Me calling it a gag isn't calling it weak because it's a gag, me calling it a gag is calling it by what it is. Multiple things can be true at the same time. It can be a gag and a weak ability at the same time without those two aspects being related. Attack my actual point, not the name i'm calling something.

Susie wants to hear them because she knows about the rules now that Flowery has told her. She didn't know about them beforehand, otherwise, why would she suggest adding VOICE CLIPS for herself because of it? This is the same girl that is confused in Chapter 3 as to why they can only “dance” when fighting Roulsx Kaard, lol.

These rules only become "suggestions" once you're aware of them. Now put Flowery in a fight against someone who has no idea the CONFIG system even exists.

If this so called law manipulation become suggestions once you're aware of them, then it's not law manipulation.

The ability to manipulate "laws" that automatically apply themselves upon reality, referring to rules, mandates and even fundamental logical principles/truths/facts that are the way in which a reality may function. The laws may or may not have been previously imposed by a higher authority within the setting of a verse.

Unless of course everyone has acausality type 5, which is even sillier.

In a fight, the config menu wouldn't be brought up because he doesn't use it in combat and never has, and is never implied that he ever did use it before getting murked.

We don't see him using it, that doesn't mean he didn't use it. It's the same situation with him turning his VOICE CLIPS on and off whenever he wants, we're never given a direct shot of him doing it either. What's with Deltarune fans and this obsession with “literal feats!!!”, huh?

"Could" have used it, "could" be using it. But never "is" using it in combat.

And it's not just the CONFIG menu that's treated as a suggestion. The mechanics of the game as a whole are treated that way. Brother, media literacy. Seth literally throws away the MERCY percentage because they don't want to be SPARED. That's a pretty clear indication that the rules themselves are flexible. I don't know why you're acting like this only applies to the CONFIG menu.

What's funny is that you're arguing against implication and interpretation, yet you're relying on them yourself while overlooking moments the game actually shows us (like Seth's interaction with the mechanics) which point in the opposite direction. I mean, come on.

Media literacy has nothing to do with this at all, considering we have Flowery at city level, but go off. Seth throwing away mercy percentages isn't the same as the config menu, that's a showcase of Seth's intellect allowing them to ignore social influencing. (showcased in a fourth wall breaking way, similar to a lot of other characters in the game)

Seth ignores it because they don't want to be spared. They actively aren't listening to kris and the others because they know they're the enemy. Seth isn't literally manipulating the game mechanics, but it is some fun fourth wall breaking that can be useful in combat. Law Manipulation actually makes a note of this distinction;

Users who merely do illogical things may only have Toon Force, especially when done in a cartoonish way. Although there are rare cases in which a law manipulator is actually using its powers to imitate traits of Toon Force.

 

[Moon_Crasher]

Pink explosion can go from 9-A to Low 7-C

How?

 

[Edutyn]

How?

 

[KaaydoManic]

Do you think the Titan could somehow scale to the destruction described by the Prophecy? (Ralsei's version and the actual one)

 

[Comiphorous]

Do you think the Titan could somehow scale to the destruction described by the Prophecy? (Ralsei's version and the actual one)

We don't know how many titans exactly are required for the roaring, how it occurs, what the titans themselves do to cause that destruction, etc etc etc. A lot of assumptions to scale higher off it.

I would not be surprised if we are shown what the roaring really looks like in the next two chapters one way or another.

 

[Echidnacodefan2512]

 

[Jepilstiltskin]

It's not cherry picking to point out that the 5 minute gag that is never brought up again and shouldn't be used as an actual in-character thing he would do in a fight, or be capable of being used in such capacity in the first place since we literally fight the guy and he doesn't use it in anywhere close to the way you're gassing it up here.

You literally can't apply that standard when the character's entire appearance revolves around what you're calling a five-minute gag. The amount of screentime an ability gets doesn't determine whether it's combat-applicable, especially in a game where the story is segmented into distinct sections.

My point still stands, if we follow your logic, then every mechanic or feat in the game that isn't explicitly brought up again suddenly becomes “inapplicable”, even though all of them are integral parts of the story. That whole segment you call gag is the starter for the revelation of the mechanic. Calling it a gag and unimportant is silly, and it just seems like you're being disingenuous at this point.

Not what i said. It's a 5 minute gag that is never used and never implied to do anything above what it's shown. Suggesting otherwise in NLF.

So, him conjuring RALSEIs option isn't something that can “do anything above what it's shown”? Alright, bro. In any case, you did say that.

Me calling it a gag isn't calling it weak because it's a gag, me calling it a gag is calling it by what it is. Multiple things can be true at the same time. It can be a gag and a weak ability at the same time without those two aspects being related. Attack my actual point, not the name i'm calling something.

Brother, you literally did call it weak because it's a gag. Do you even remember what you said? I'm gonna make your life easier either way, here:

What does make the ability weak is that these are just settings that kinda work under the pretense "is it funny?" since it's one gag that's showing off Flowery and Ralsei's rivalry that only works this way once.

I really want to address the rest of your point tbh, but sorry, I just can't take you seriously now because of this. Seems like an elaborated ragebait.

 

[Breadbear83]

I did a quick calc (i will later put everything on a blog) and this is what a got:

Pink is 1.7m tall while the giant pink/ghost pink is 13m tall

Pink explosion can go from 9-A to Low 7-C

how did you get her so tall? i got normal pink at 1.78m while giant pink at 7.65m (and a weight of 5.376kg, would be valid as she doesnt seems to struggle with her higher weight, so would be able to jump very far like normal pink, lifting her own weight)

(and for the explosion, did you get it to Low 7C because it explodes those buildings in the background?)

 

[Edutyn]

 

[LittleGuy99]

This is actually a good theory

 

[Edutyn]

how did you get her so tall? i got normal pink at 1.78m while giant pink at 7.65m (and a weight of 5.376kg, would be valid as she doesnt seems to struggle with her higher weight, so would be able to jump very far like normal pink, lifting her own weighti

I calced Pink height and then compare ot to the giant Pink head (got like 1.75m), a full body is 7.5x the size of the head. So 1.75*7.5= 13m

(and for the explosion, did yo uget it to Low 7C because it explodes those buildings in the background)

yep, but i think it can go even higher

also i did a calc for susie if you want to add it as unevaluated calcs)

 

[Randomuser3412]

how did you get her so tall? i got normal pink at 1.78m while giant pink at 7.65m (and a weight of 5.376kg, would be valid as she doesnt seems to struggle with her higher weight, so would be able to jump very far like normal pink, lifting her own weight)

(and for the explosion, did you get it to Low 7C because it explodes those buildings in the background?)

Are you trying to calculate the weight of a ghost?

 

[Breadbear83]

Are you trying to calculate the weight of a ghost?

i mean like, she pushing her ass against the battle box moves it so must be heavy

 

[Randomuser3412]

i mean like, she pushing her ass against the battle box moves it so must be heavy

...It's extremely common to see non-physical ghosts moving "objects" (if you wanna call the battle box an object) like this. Don't we already know that Pink's ghost is non-physical and resides inside of Pink's body, where it can't be harmed by the Delta Gang?

 

[Jepilstiltskin]

This works until you realize that Flowery literally goes hand-to-hand with the Knight before getting, well... erked. You know, the scene where Flowery actually parries the Knight's knife? That seems to go directly against the claim that “the Knight attacks the object, not the manifestation”.

It would upscale the Knight's perception like insanely crazy if this is true, though. Because to see something beyond “darker than dark” of the whole Dark World is an impressive feats on its own.

 

[Breadbear83]

...It's extremely common to see non-physical ghosts moving "objects" (if you wanna call the battle box an object) like this. Don't we already know that Pink's ghost is non-physical and resides inside of Pink's body, where it can't be harmed by the Delta Gang?

do ghost characters generally have ´´insubstantial´´ or baseline below average human (0kg) Lifting strength because of that?, she would have lifting strength that so would apply to her weight, or at least being calculated as several times stronger than Normal Pink in physical strength due to her larger size, the battle box being moved with normal pink on top shows this

 

[Edutyn]

how did you get her so tall? i got normal pink at 1.78m while giant pink at 7.65m (and a weight of 5.376kg, would be valid as she doesnt seems to struggle with her higher weight, so would be able to jump very far like normal pink, lifting her own weight)

(and for the explosion, did you get it to Low 7C because it explodes those buildings in the background?)

about the weight i got 30.5 tons wich is sightly above Tenna (but almost 2x below Golden Tenna )

 

[Randomuser3412]

do ghost characters generally have ´´insubstantial´´ or baseline below average human (0kg) Lifting strength because of that?, she would have lifting strength that so would apply to her weight, or at least being calculated as several times stronger than Normal Pink in physical strength due to her larger size, the battle box being moved with normal pink on top shows this

What are you even trying to say here? Ghosts don't have weight. Her moving the battle box doesn't mean she has weight, and LS can be infinitely higher or much lower than your actual weight. Ordinarily, I'd say ghosts would get "Unknown" LS if they don't showcase moving anything.

 

[Jepilstiltskin]

Wait, I'm sorry, but since when can you scale a ghost's weight?

If this were Ghostbusters, then sure, you could make that argument because ghosts there have ectoplasm and are treated as having physical properties. But generally speaking, and even in Deltarune, do ghosts even have measurable weight?

 

[Randomuser3412]

Wait, I'm sorry, but since when can you scale a ghost's weight?

If this were Ghostbusters, then sure, you could make that argument because ghosts there have ectoplasm and are treated as having physical properties. But generally speaking, and even in Deltarune, do ghosts even have measurable weight?

Maintaining the agenda is our top priority

 

[Jepilstiltskin]

Maintaining the agenda is our top priority

 

[Da3ggman]

i mean like, she pushing her ass against the battle box moves it so must be heavy

 

[LittleGuy99]

This works until you realize that Flowery literally goes hand-to-hand with the Knight before getting, well... erked. You know, the scene where Flowery actually parries the Knight's knife? That seems to go directly against the claim that “the Knight attacks the object, not the manifestation”.

Could be an ability it doesn't use all the time, only at specific moments

 

[Echidnacodefan2512]

Could be an ability it doesn't use all the time, only at specific moments

Soo it a one shot kill move ?

 

[LittleGuy99]

Soo it a one shot kill move ?

"Oh $%#&, this flower is giving me a fight, well, time to attack its true form!"

 

[Jepilstiltskin]

Could be an ability it doesn't use all the time, only at specific moments

What's funny is that, if this theory turns out to be true (please), it basically confirms the long-standing idea that the Knight is a complete cutscene fraud

 

[Randomuser3412]

What's funny is that, if this theory turns out to be true (please), it basically confirms the long-standing idea that the Knight is a complete cutscene fraud

Just wait 'till it's confirmed that Kris was the one who killed Flowery and SWOONed Ralsei and Susie instead of the Knight. What exactly DOES the Knight even do, then? Might as well just be Kris's patsy.
Ralsei knows Kris made the Chapter 5 Fountain and is hiding it from Susie, trusting their intentions. Ralsei could very well be hiding Kris SWOONing Susie and him as well...

 

[Kellex]

Wanted to go back on this topic.

Anyway more things to "Change Role" theory

I don't think it's far off to say that the 7 flowers represent some past versions of lightners in the game or people that are close to Asgore.
Aqua is Kris' counterpart from the video obviously, but there is also a theory that Flowery is Rudy's counterpart.

 

[Moon_Crasher]

King Orange stomps

I haven't caught up with AVA since ep 8 of the main series and I'm so confused as to how it gets scaled so high.

 

[Randomuser3412]

Just wait 'till it's confirmed that Kris was the one who killed Flowery and SWOONed Ralsei and Susie instead of the Knight. What exactly DOES the Knight even do, then? Might as well just be Kris's patsy.
Ralsei knows Kris made the Chapter 5 Fountain and is hiding it from Susie, trusting their intentions. Ralsei could very well be hiding Kris SWOONing Susie and him as well...

Spoiler: Chapter 6 dialogue

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

I haven't caught up with AVA since ep 8 of the main series and I'm so confused as to how it gets scaled so high.

Animation vs Minecraft, main bad guy almost nukes Minecraft (All its dimensions too) with big beam and even the regular stickfigures can tank it.

 

[Echidnacodefan2512]

Wanted to go back on this topic.

I don't think it's far off to say that the 7 flowers represent some past versions of lightners in the game or people that are close to Asgore.
Aqua is Kris' counterpart from the video obviously, but there is also a theory that Flowery is Rudy's counterpart.

I think all the 7 flowers do represent kris in a way although why seth want berdly feather ?

 

[Comiphorous]

I think all the 7 flowers do represent kris in a way although why seth want berdly feather ?

Seth was drooling to have it. That’s a crush right there if I’ve ever seen one.

 

[Randomuser3412]

Seth was drooling to have it. That’s a crush right there if I’ve ever seen one.

Yeah, yeah, that's great and all- but why (and more importantly, HOW) did Kris have one of Berdly's flowers on deck to give away?

 

[Comiphorous]

Yeah, yeah, that's great and all- but why (and more importantly, HOW) did Kris have one of Berdly's flowers on deck to give away?

I mean, Kris blushes when questioned about it…

Perhaps Seth and Kris share a taste.

 

[Breadbear83]

ok, i was wrong about applying weight to a ghost

I calced Pink height and then compare ot to the giant Pink head (got like 1.75m), a full body is 7.5x the size of the head. So 1.75*7.5= 13m

yep, but i think it can go even higher

i got the explosion at an area of 714 meters, the buildings are far in the background and mostly the explosion would had gone far in the left and to the right there barely are buildings before the explosion happens