Deltarune: Chapter 5 (SPOILER!!) Discussion Thread

[RinneItachi]

Spoiler: Mechanic Stuff

So, we've got some interesting stuff in this chapter, most notably the fact that the whole mechanic aspect is actually being addressed.

Ralsei states that we normally perceive these mechanics (or layers) through the subconscious. That's a pretty interesting detail, because it suggests that the separation between FIGHT, ACT, ITEM, SPARE, and DEFENSE may not actually exist in a conventional sense within the setting itself.

Instead, it seems more like the characters are simply thinking (during those turn), while what we perceive as a turn-based sequence is just the subconscious processing those actions. The reason we see it as distinct "phases" could be because we're observing that subconscious layer rather than the events as they occur in real time.

In other words, the subconscious appears to function as the basis for the turn-based mechanic. The turns themselves may not be literal pauses in reality, but rather a representation of thought and decision-making being translated into gameplay.

Oh I completely forgor about this.

Spoiler: Ch5

Huge lore context for sure. Implies a certain level of meta awareness too of some of the characters. Ralsei and Flowery are described as anomalies, and it's implied that as a result of their nature they have an inherent and deeper understanding of the world, but even more so for Ralsei of course, knowing of the Prophecy and such, and believing he could kill Flowery at any point if he wanted to. The Knight has awareness too.

 

[Echidnacodefan2512]

"THEY eated them"

 

[GPR_Shadow]

Spoiler

Noooo onion-san

 

[GodlyCharmander]

The main Flowery boss fight is so tough, yet when he fuses with the other flowers to become Omega Flowery he’s a complete joke. Bro forgot he could do literally anything else but charge forward. I get it’s supposed to be more of a victory lap for the fight, but it feels weird for a fusion of all the flowers + an Omega Flowey reference to go down so easily compared to the base form.

Orange Soul Kris should scale 7x above their base self

 

[Ghengiroo115]

Oh I completely forgor about this.

Spoiler: Ch5

Huge lore context for sure. Implies a certain level of meta awareness too of some of the characters. Ralsei and Flowery are described as anomalies, and it's implied that as a result of their nature they have an inherent and deeper understanding of the world, but even more so for Ralsei of course, knowing of the Prophecy and such, and believing he could kill Flowery at any point if he wanted to. The Knight has awareness too.

Wonder if Ralsei should have “8-A, possibly 7-B”/“7-B, possibly higher” for his keys then if he holds back so much. He seems to be scared of the Knight just like the others, but that might just be due to him feeling the need to hold back (plus the Knight could still be stronger than Ralsei’s full power).

Speaking of which, I wonder if Kris fighting Omega Flowery adds extra credence to the idea of them holding back and/or having some emotional power boost as well. We’ve seen them deal way more damage against Tenna if Sword Route was completed, and against the Knight if Susie and/or Ralsei are SWOONed. Now we have them singlehandedly fighting on par with a stronger version of a guy who was just fighting against the entire Gang at once.

 

[RinneItachi]

Spoiler: Weird Route Discussion

So, there seems to be multiple interpretations of this scene, a common one being that Kris and Noelle committed suicide, which I disagree with. Mine is that Noelle and Kris somehow glitched out of the game's boundaries while sinking into the bottom. After all, why all the foreshadowing on her blog about her having a knack for finding bugs in games if not for something like this to happen? And the whole point of the Weird Route being that only through Noelle's power can we violate the laws of the Dark World's and actually kill enemies. I believe Dess somehow or another broke the same bug a long time ago, maybe trying to swim across the Lake, which is why there's someone, again, probably Dess, talking in the game's code and being somewhere completely dark. And how the little gif in the opening Vessel cutscene is, iirc, actually an edited clip of waves, I forget the details. I believe we've sunk out of the game's intended boundaries made by Gaster.

So my expectation based on the "Chapter 7 Side B" thing is this;

The Weird Route is, for now, concluded, and will not have a presence in Chapter 6 beyond, at most, aborted Weird Route content.

I believe that Chapter 7 will have 2 completely different storylines, Side A and Side B, Side A will be the normal route, prophecy, normal story ending. Side B will obviously be the Weird Route and will skip over Chapter 6 entirely. I honestly can't predict how it'll go from there, but at this point I'm expecting a direct Gaster appearance.

All of this is also making me think Dess either actually isn't the RK after all, or somehow both is and isn't in a way I can't really describe.

Also Sans may actually be from a Weird Route timeline...

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Wonder if Ralsei should have “8-A, possibly 7-B”/“7-B, possibly higher” for his keys then if he holds back so much. He seems to be scared of the Knight just like the others, but that might just be due to him feeling the need to hold back (plus the Knight could still be stronger than Ralsei’s full power).

Speaking of which, I wonder if Kris fighting Omega Flowery adds extra credence to the idea of them holding back and/or having some emotional power boost as well. We’ve seen them deal way more damage against Tenna if Sword Route was completed, and against the Knight if Susie and/or Ralsei are SWOONed. Now we have them singlehandedly fighting on par with a stronger version of a guy who was just fighting against the entire Gang at once.

"7-B'

You know that people will try to upgrade these characters to 4-B after that sun thing, right? Even though the verse has absolutely no feats on that scale and I'm not allowed to point out the obvious Tier 9 anti-feats.

 

[RinneItachi]

Wonder if Ralsei should have “8-A, possibly 7-B”/“7-B, possibly higher” for his keys then if he holds back so much. He seems to be scared of the Knight just like the others, but that might just be due to him feeling the need to hold back (plus the Knight could still be stronger than Ralsei’s full power).

Speaking of which, I wonder if Kris fighting Omega Flowery adds extra credence to the idea of them holding back and/or having some emotional power boost as well. We’ve seen them deal way more damage against Tenna if Sword Route was completed, and against the Knight if Susie and/or Ralsei are SWOONed. Now we have them singlehandedly fighting on par with a stronger version of a guy who was just fighting against the entire Gang at once.

Spoiler: Ch. 5

I think it's likely yeah, especially if he can manipulate his stats freely, even if they're apparently fake.

I think it's an emotional thing, but it is possible since after all Kris is playing along for their own motives. But emotional state's are very relevant to power in Toby's verses, so both possibilities are likely.

 

[Ghengiroo115]

Orange Soul Kris should scale 7x above their base self

They should have something that scales them to 7x their base, though I don’t think it’s the Orange Soul that gives them that power as they have it for the whole fight. The Orange Soul might give the Gang some kind of power boost since they fight a Flowery empowered by his recruits, though that depends on how strong base Flowery even is (I don’t remember if he has anything notable that isn’t just fake stats or anything like that).

"7-B'

You know that people will try to upgrade these characters to 4-B after that sun thing, right? Even though the verse has absolutely no feats on that scale and I'm not allowed to point out the obvious Tier 9 anti-feats.

I was just using the current ratings as a placeholder.

 

[RinneItachi]

Oh and I did the Egg room thing.

Spoiler: Egg Room

Kind of a weird one? Like the previous ones had similar mysterious/ominous vibes and the man did speak to us a bit, but this one he just kind of emoted. Interesting that Toby was there for the puzzle. This one had a much more carefree vibe, which I guess fits into the chapter overall.

 

[Edutyn]

oh

 

[Edutyn]

The main Flowery boss fight is so tough, yet when he fuses with the other flowers to become Omega Flowery he’s a complete joke. Bro forgot he could do literally anything else but charge forward. I get it’s supposed to be more of a victory lap for the fight, but it feels weird for a fusion of all the flowers + an Omega Flowey reference to go down so easily compared to the base form.

I think it's implied that he was holding back, especially since after the battle he says, “I hesitated.”

Or maybe I misinterpreted the scene

 

[RinneItachi]

Also.

Spoiler: Friend

Friend instantly reducing everyone's HP to 1 is insane, if Friend is an actual fight....

 

[GodlyCharmander]

A quick reminder, anyone planning to do a revision, you can use this "album" to gather new feats and evidence:


All new stats and recruits on this album:



Here's a direct link for the hax album.
Here's a direct link for the recruit album.

Also.

Spoiler: Friend

Friend instantly reducing everyone's HP to 1 is insane, if Friend is an actual fight....

When did that happen btw? I didn't encounter them

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

absolute Deltarune

 

[Ghengiroo115]

I think it's implied that he was holding back, especially since after the battle he says, “I hesitated.”

Or maybe I misinterpreted the scene

I think he just means he didn’t put all his power into the final clash. The usage of the word “hesitated” instead of something like “why couldn’t i go all out against you” implies it was a last minute reaction and not him holding back the entire phase.

 

[Ghengiroo115]

A quick reminder, anyone planning to do a revision, you can use this "album" to gather new feats and evidence:


All new stats and recruits on this album:



When did that happen btw? I didn't encounter them

I can’t see the albums

 

[Ghengiroo115]

Btw unlike with Tenna and the Knight, Kris’ durability also increased against Omega Flowery rather than just their AP. Maybe they’re both holding back and have emotional amps (though unlike Ralsei Kris shouldn’t have lower defence while holding back), or maybe the Orange Soul has a mechanic about it that I’m missing.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

I can’t see the albums

Here's a direct link for the hax album.
Here's a direct link for the recruit album.

 

[RinneItachi]

A quick reminder, anyone planning to do a revision, you can use this "album" to gather new feats and evidence:


All new stats and recruits on this album:



Here's a direct link for the hax album.
Here's a direct link for the recruit album.



When did that happen btw? I didn't encounter them

Spoiler: Friend

It's shortly after you first unlock the feather. And first climb up the leaves, you enter a new area, and you can go to the right, you can try to target something with the red soul, then you take damage and fall back down to the start.

 

[Ghengiroo115]

Here's a direct link for the hax album.
Here's a direct link for the recruit album.

Ah it’s Imgur, I see the issue now. I won’t be able to access it, so I’ll just wait until the threads that apply all the new stuff are made.

 

[Edutyn]

 

[Edutyn]

is anyone working on a profile for Flowery?

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Ah it’s Imgur, I see the issue now. I won’t be able to access it, so I’ll just wait until the threads that apply all the new stuff are made.

I can reupload it to IMG BB if that's a better host for y'all

 

[Randomuser3412]

Also.

Spoiler: Sand Overtale

Sans is totally the same between games. He literally had Susie draw a picture of her, Noelle, and Kris. So now I'm predicting he keeps that photo and somehow escapes to the Undertale world for some reason, maybe because of the Roaring.

Sans tells you to "take it easy" specifically on the Weird Route. He remembers you're Weird Routes...

 

[Echidnacodefan2512]

Sans tells you to "take it easy" specifically on the Weird Route. He remembers you're Weird Routes...

Just reminder it a punch card

Same used for speedruners

 

[LittleGuy99]

Spoiler: Sun in the Dark World

There’s a puzzle room near the end of the game with an identical green sun that’s actually just a fox in disguise.

That room looks very fake overall, I wouldn't consider it

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Spoiler: Sun in the Dark World

That room looks very fake overall, I wouldn't consider it

Spoiler: Sun

???
It's an open space, the sun is a kitsune, and it disappears once Flowery stops fighting (and Asgore shows up)

We're going to consider it.

 

[LittleGuy99]

Okay, I'm back.
I want to create profiles for all the fodders and the flowers too
But first I want to know if any of you are already working on some of the flower profiles

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

But I want to know if you're already working on some of the flower profiles?

Flowerguy is making profiles for Aqua and Seth, I'm making one for Pink, and there's a war over Flowery rn

 

[LittleGuy99]

Flowerguy is making profiles for Aqua and Seth, I'm making one for Pink, and there's a war over Flowery rn

I'll try to make Flowery's profile then lol

 

[GodlyCharmander]

How are we dealing with the fake statistic stuff? Flowery flat out say they're fake, so we probably shouldn't index them as legitimate

 

[LittleGuy99]

This chapter confirmed that the green battle box, the buttons, the interface, and all that stuff is canon and everyone can see it huh

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

How are we dealing with the fake statistic stuff? Flowery flat out say they're fake, so we probably shouldn't index them as legitimate

Probably just put them down as Subjective Reality. Like "At most 7-B, far higher with Subjective Reality" or whatever name we come up for them.

Like clearly they aren't just for show or his ass wouldn't have been confused it dealt nothing to the Knight.

 

[LittleGuy99]

Probably just put them down as Subjective Reality. Like "At most 7-B, far higher with Subjective Reality" or whatever name we come up for them.

Like clearly they aren't just for show or his ass wouldn't have been confused it dealt nothing to the Knight.

Agree with this

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Like clearly they aren't just for show or his ass wouldn't have been confused it dealt nothing to the Knight.

He literally didn't use it against us at any point. They are, by all intents and purposes, just for show.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

He literally didn't use it against us at any point. They are, by all intents and purposes, just for show.

"You... you can ignore my fake statistics?!" isn't really the reaction someone would have if they were genuinely just for show and nothing more.

I also do think he was using them against us in his fight, at least to an extent.
A "Non fake" Flowery wouldn't have been much of a challenge considering he fails to deal any damage to the Knight unlike the CH3 gang.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

"You... you can ignore my fake statistics?!" isn't really the reaction someone would have if they were genuinely just for show and nothing more.

I also do think he was using them against us in his fight, at least to an extent.
A "Non fake" Flowery wouldn't have been much of a challenge considering he fails to deal any damage to the Knight unlike the CH3 gang.

This is a reality where fantasy and willpower dictate effect, the fake statistics should've at least tricked someone into being harmed. The Knight simply had a stronger fantasy. Also, if he truly had 99 ATK and 99 DEF, he wouldn't be dealing less damage than his recruits. 60 DMG from an attack is crazy low when I've been getting 72 DMG from minions.
He fought the Knight to a stand still after using the fake statistics, "fails to deal any damage" is far from being true, he was just using fake numbers, he didn't fail a genuine attempt.

I don't mind the way you put it, I'd just prefer a "possibly", since in an actual fight, he doesn't use it.

 

[Edutyn]

"You... you can ignore my fake statistics?!" isn't really the reaction someone would have if they were genuinely just for show and nothing more.

I also do think he was using them against us in his fight, at least to an extent.
A "Non fake" Flowery wouldn't have been much of a challenge considering he fails to deal any damage to the Knight unlike the CH3 gang.

The knight apparently recived damage has shown by the animation of when he recives more than 100 point of damage

Plus, Flowery out-speed the knight

 

[Randomuser3412]

Plus, Flowery out-speed the knight

Didn't the Knight legit just ram into a wall and then Flowery showed up? I don't think he "out-sped" the Knight at all