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we're trying to see if the lightning has real lightning speed, not if characters dodging it are outliers.
The fact that the lightning is slow would prove that it's a false lightning you dumbass
supirse attack+ he wanted to get the spear out
"A surprise attack"
Man, they are literally one in front of the other. If the demon is 1000 times faster than a bullet he would have not only been able to dodge easily, but also cut Genya's torso into an instate even before the bullets have hit him
talking is free action, i bleive that's a thing
No, and woundnt change much
and pillars can give the nichirin metal their swords are made of special propreties by touching the non nichirin handle
Uh?
bullets shot from a gun made with a fictiniol metal, it's already established that a way weaker tanjiro is alreadyvsubsonic even when injured, let alone uppermoon 4
Lowtiers = Subsonic
Hightiers = Supersonic
Thats the most consistent thing, but I will not talk about scaling here
 
even more evidence for sky to ground is in ep 5

time stamp is from 8:24 to 8:41
Added the scene:


Yeah, gotta agree with Damage, we never see the attacks coming from the sky, and every attack made by Hantengu came from his staff and/or his dragons, so assuming that these specific attacks came from the sky is kinda of a strech imo.
The argument is that Sekido's long-range attacks are by summoning lightning from the sky after slamming his staff to the ground. And in the cited anime scene, we clearly see Zohakuten using lightning without dragons (we didn't see him resummon his dragons for this scene in the manga); similar to how he can use sonic attacks with and without his dragons.
 
well
to get back on topic i'll prsent my argument and the counterarguments

my side

sekido summons lightning via tapping the staff on the groun,the lightning summoned by doing so is vertical and the summoner himself is on level ground when the vertical bolts are summoned which indicates sky to ground lightning

the counter argument is
it's safer to assume that he is able to summon lightning with bis staff but they all curve up to the sky high enough to look vertical when coming down to attack because the attacks are all shown off screen

...i think?

mister life of king i'm sure you're a wonderful person, i really do but please go back to the topic on hand

you can make a thread about it after this
 
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Added the scene:



The argument is that Sekido's long-range attacks are by summoning lightning from the sky after slamming his staff to the ground. And in the cited anime scene, we clearly see Zohakuten using lightning without dragons (we didn't see him resummon his dragons for this scene in the manga); similar to how he can use sonic attacks with and without his dragons.

thanks shadow
 
You all mfs telling me to "get back on topic" WHILE I AM ON TOPIC
One of the requirements to be accepted as real lightning is a speed consistent with that of the real world, something that is not shown to be true within the series
we're talking about sky to ground lightning here

if this is accepted your argument about supersonic KNY high tiers is as good as gone
 
You all mfs telling me to "get back on topic" WHILE I AM ON TOPIC
One of the requirements to be accepted as real lightning is a speed consistent with that of the real world, something that is not shown to be true within the series
....nah, your "evidence" is about the speed of the characters, not the damn lightning being real lightning or not, if this thread gets accepted and someone makes another thread trying to get calcs into the profiles then your arguments would be relevant, but not here, no.
 
Yes, not much changes. Most of the dodges that happened at that fight have subsonic results
There might even be potential issues with that, but this is not the thread for that.

no, he was 100% on level ground with them when summoning the lightning bolts
The lightning forms an arc both upwards and downwards so this doesn't really disprove the electricity coming from the demon itself.
The issue of the manga having no visuals of lightning coming from clouds still remain. And the manga as far as I know takes precedence over the anime in case of inconsistencies. Since most of the proof for implied cloud-to-ground lightning seems to be in the anime version.

If the anime version is closer to the manga version or is just an enhanced version of manga scenes then that makes the OP's case stronger.
 
There might even be potential issues with that, but this is not the thread for that.


The lightning forms an arc both upwards and downwards so this doesn't really disprove the electricity coming from the demon itself.
The issue of the manga having no visuals of lightning coming from clouds still remain. And the manga as far as I know takes precedence over the anime in case of inconsistencies. Since most of the proof for implied cloud-to-ground lightning seems to be in the anime version.

If the anime version is closer to the manga version or is just an enhanced version of manga scenes then that makes the OP's case stronger.



The anime can be safely considered to be secondary canon, as it was stated by the producer in interview that the author "is involved in checking over the scenarios, character designs, settings, and overall they are intimately involved in the anime adaptation process. I was in constant contact with Gotōge-san throughout production."
 
to get back on track

this is the first scene in the form of a manga panel
first scene: chapter 112 page 16

16-6.png


it shows vertical lightning bolts, it was faithfully animated and showed sekido being one floor above them and he summoned the lightning bolts via tapping the ground with the staff


second scene: chapter 113 page 17

17-7.png




the manga shows vertical lightning bolts and shows sekido being on level ground with them, it was also faithfully animated and it shows sekido tapping the ground with his staff to summon the vertical lightning


third scene: chapter 114 page 2

02-106.jpg



it also shows vertical lightning, the anime shows sekido tapping the ground with his staff allowing the vertical lightning to be summoned


fourth scene: chapter 123 page 18

18-11.png



zohakuten uses lightning without the wooden dragons, it was also animated to show sky to ground lightning


these are the anime scenes,if you're reading this,thanks again shadow







edit: ...yeah, for some reason the panels aren't showing
fixed
 
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In my opinion, it is not unreasonable to conclude that the lightning did not originate from the sky based on the visual characteristics of its appearance. The manner in which it is presented suggests a vertical orientation rather than a source from a staff-like object.
 
In my opinion, it is not unreasonable to conclude that the lightning did not originate from the sky based on the visual characteristics of its appearance. The manner in which it is presented suggests a vertical orientation rather than a source from a staff-like object.

excuse me, but i'm not sure which point you're supporting....
 
to get back on track

this is the first scene in the form of a manga panel
first scene: chapter 112 page 16

16-6.png


it shows vertical lightning bolts, it was faithfully animated and showed sekido being one floor above them and he summoned the lightning bolts via tapping the ground with the staff
Prior to this scene we see all 3 of the demons on a higher floor of the house and they only touched the ground once they destroyed the house they were located in. Them being vertical means nothing if he’s on a higher ground, as there’s no reason to assume he can’t aim his attacks.
second scene: chapter 113 page 17

17-7.png




the manga shows vertical lightning bolts and shows sekido being on level ground with them, it was also faithfully animated and it shows sekido tapping the ground with his staff to summon the vertical lightning
They aren’t entirely vertical, they’re angled towards them. It’s very possible for it to have been shot from his staff and aimed towards them. We don’t know, using the anime as a source of evidence just doesn’t work when it comes to sum like this.
third scene: chapter 114 page 2

02-106.jpg



it also shows vertical lightning, the anime shows sekido tapping the ground with his staff allowing the vertical lightning to be summoned

fourth scene: chapter 123 page 18

18-11.png



zohakuten uses lightning without the wooden dragons, it was also animated to show sky to ground lightning
We literally don’t know whether this came from his dragons or not. It’s baseless to assume it has, the fact that all his lightning has been shown to originate from a source (not the sky) would just depict that this came from his dragons.
these are the anime scenes,if you're reading this,thanks again shadow







edit: ...yeah, for some reason the panels aren't showing
fixed

The anime is a secondary source and as I said earlier, cannot be used as primary evidence suggesting something never shown or implied in the manga.


demons-ch122_17.jpg

We see here that the dragon is directly attacking from his mouth.

demons-ch122_18.jpg

And here we actually see a bolt come from it’s mouth and go upwards. Which is weird if they can only go in one direction.
 
But natural electricity moves trough air at the same speed as lightning also doesn’t Zenitsu have lightning speed statements?
 
Prior to this scene we see all 3 of the demons on a higher floor of the house and they only touched the ground once they destroyed the house they were located in. Them being vertical means nothing if he’s on a higher ground, as there’s no reason to assume he can’t aim his attacks.

as shown in the anime, they're one floor above, the "higher ground" isn't high enough to make the lightning attacks look verticale in any way shape or form if they orginated from the staff and went straight to the characters to attack them, it would have way more horizontal
They aren’t entirely vertical, they’re angled towards them. It’s very possible for it to have been shot from his staff and aimed towards them. We don’t know, using the anime as a source of evidence just doesn’t work when it comes to sum like this.

no?
in what way is the lightning drawn shown to be angeled towards them?




We literally don’t know whether this came from his dragons or not. It’s baseless to assume it has, the fact that all his lightning has been shown to originate from a source (not the sky) would just depict that this came from his dragons.

there are no dargons in sight as they well all destroyed by mitsuri he didn't create them either neither in the manga nor the anime and he can use his techniques even without said dragons as evident by when he used urogi's sonic beam from his mouth agaisnt mitsuri


The anime is a secondary source and as I said earlier, cannot be used as primary evidence suggesting something never shown or implied in the manga.

exept when the anime does not contradict the manga in any way shape or form and the author supervised the animating process



as it was stated by the producer in interview that the author "is involved in checking over the scenarios, character designs, settings, and overall they are intimately involved in the anime adaptation process. I was in constant contact with Gotōge-san throughout production."


demons-ch122_17.jpg

We see here that the dragon is directly attacking from his mouth.

....and?

i never denied the fact that he uses the dragons as mediums to use his techniques, i said that he can use said techniques even without the dragons, he just prefers to use them

demons-ch122_18.jpg

And here we actually see a bolt come from it’s mouth and go upwards. Which is weird if they can only go in one direction.

and i don't think all those lightning bolts were originated from the dragons, i also can't see them going up?

edit: can you make the panels smaller?
much appreciated
 
Prior to this scene we see all 3 of the demons on a higher floor of the house and they only touched the ground once they destroyed the house they were located in. Them being vertical means nothing if he’s on a higher ground, as there’s no reason to assume he can’t aim his attacks.
He is slamming his staff on the ground to attack with lightning from above; so high ground doesn't add much. If you are claiming that he can manually control the lightning so much to aim it and force it into a convoluted arc toward his target, it simply doesn't make sense to not directly shoot it in a straight line instead.

They aren’t entirely vertical, they’re angled towards them. It’s very possible for it to have been shot from his staff and aimed towards them. We don’t know, using the anime as a source of evidence just doesn’t work when it comes to sum like this.
If you are claiming it is ambiguous, we have the anime to resolve the ambiguity. Sounds like the perfect opportunity to use the anime as a source of evidence.

We literally don’t know whether this came from his dragons or not. It’s baseless to assume it has, the fact that all his lightning has been shown to originate from a source (not the sky) would just depict that this came from his dragons.
And because of the anime, now we know.
If you are claiming that you don't know which implies neutrality on the subject, you shouldn't have an issue with secondary canon providing the missing information.

The anime is a secondary source and as I said earlier, cannot be used as primary evidence suggesting something never shown or implied in the manga.
Information often get revealed in secondary canon, such as databook, and it is an unusual position to discard them because you didn't figure it out in the primary source. Furthermore, it is not 'something never shown or implied in the manga'; they are literally animated adaption of the feats, and as pointed out earlier it was ambiguous whether lightning is summoned from the sky and now it is clarified.

And here we actually see a bolt come from it’s mouth and go upwards. Which is weird if they can only go in one direction.
As the name of the attack implies (crazed), lightning is randomly shot in all sort of directions.

I mean, tbh, we don't even have a cloud to ground lightning attack from the anime.
I mean that is what the anime apparently shows, and the impression most people who participated in the thread got from seeing the scenes.
There is room for that interpretation in the manga, but not strong evidence. The anime clarified things and gave evidence.
 
Actually nevermind, demon slayer is really odd, if I’m correct the breathing styles aren’t even real, I don’t believe the lightning has enough proof behind it to be considered real ? I may be wrong though I’m still new
 
Actually nevermind, demon slayer is really odd, if I’m correct the breathing styles aren’t even real, I don’t believe the lightning has enough proof behind it to be considered real ? I may be wrong though I’m still new
hello there fellow newbie
the breathing styles aren't real but the blood demon arts are, the thread is about sekido's blood demon art being sky to ground and thus real lightning, same with zohakuten

read the previous comments for more information before giving your input
 
I still don't believe it should count as CtG lightning for the fact it doesn't meet our standards for such feat and the fact it does not come from the cloud but Sekido's staff/Zohakuten's Dragon's
It really doesn't matter if it "shows coming from the sky" when we know the source of said electricity is not the clouds
 
I still don't believe it should count as CtG lightning for the fact it doesn't meet our standards for such feat and the fact it does not come from the cloud but Sekido's staff/Zohakuten's Dragon's
It really doesn't matter if it "shows coming from the sky" when we know the source of said electricity is not the clouds
Sounds good point.
 
I still don't believe it should count as CtG lightning for the fact it doesn't meet our standards for such feat and the fact it does not come from the cloud but Sekido's staff/Zohakuten's Dragon's
the entire point given is the fact that they don't come from the staff but they're summoned by the staff via tapping the ground, as evident by the fact that they're all vertical and the summoner is on level ground with all the characters when the vertical lightning bolts come down to attack them

i've also provided a scene where zohakuten does not use the wooden dragons to summon the lightning, said lightning is sky to ground, you can see the manga panel and the anime scene above, it's the fourth scene

i also have evidence of the fact that zohakuten does not need the dragons to summon the techniques since he used urogi's sonic beam from his mouth, and he also used the lightning attack without the wooden dragons, as evident by the fact that there are no dragons on sight since mitsuri destroyed them all and he did not create them again neither in the anime nor the manga
 
I dunno, feels weird if the lightning isn't legit real lightning. We basically accept that elements such as fire, wood, water, and earth have the same properties as the real elements when concerning fiction, but when it comes to lightning, people suddenly act like it can't have the same properties because it gives a big buff in speed...
 
I dunno, feels weird if the lightning isn't legit real lightning. We basically accept that elements such as fire, wood, water, and earth have the same properties as the real elements when concerning fiction, but when it comes to lightning, people suddenly act like it can't have the same properties because it gives a big buff in speed...

i don't know why either, but at least from what i can see, most people here are agree that this is real lightning

....i think

and i said this thread was going smoothly
 
I dunno, feels weird if the lightning isn't legit real lightning. We basically accept that elements such as fire, wood, water, and earth have the same properties as the real elements when concerning fiction, but when it comes to lightning, people suddenly act like it can't have the same properties because it gives a big buff in speed...
Op is just trying to prove that there are attacks who are cloud-to-ground though, wich is just one of our criterias, if they presented other evidence that fit our standards then this would be an easier CRT to evaluate.
 
Op is just trying to prove that there are attacks who are cloud-to-ground though, wich is just one of our criterias, if they presented other evidence that fit our standards then this would be an easier CRT to evaluate.
isn't sky to ground lightning considered to be real lightning?
 
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