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I'll get to this when I'm done with a sorta revamped Dante profile I'm working on. I'm kinda on a roll with it but don't know when it will be done. You can also give me suggestions to make it better in the discussion thread if you like.
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Devil Hunter Vs Hero Hunter
- Thread starter Lightning_XXI
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The Dante revamped profile looks good but I hit a while with it so I'm taking a small break from it to clear my head.
'''DMC3 first battle, he didn't go Majin trigger because he awakaned his actual devil trigger, there is a clear reason why it didn't happen there.
Second battle, he was only tired not in a death peril or a emergency like in the manga.
Dante wasn't even in an emergancy in the manga, he just does it. He should've just used it on Arkham or Vergil if he was so willing to use it casually on Alice.
DMC anime, this would be a great point but instead it actually proves how strong and powerful his Accelerated Development is, he took a beating from a 7-A and Dante jumped from 7-B to 7-A in a matter of minutes. Besides we don't know how the fight went, if Dante was insta one shotted or got toyed by Sid but going by how fast Sid got back into the human world it could be said that Sid didn't lose time playing and went in for the win.
Dante was just 7-A, he didn't go from 7-B to 7-A during the fight.
Vol 2 has more of a PIS fight to make us readers feel that Dante is actually threatened by something, he just stomped Mundus who created the beastheads that give power to Chen, we now that Mundus is not reckless to make something stronger than him going with the visions of V manga.
Heck, the same battle even forgets how Dante's regen works by saying that both arms are broken and useless in that fight.
Mundus didn't create something stronger than him. The Beastheads is inferior to Mundus by itself, any human that came into contact with the Beastheads ultimately dies to it by turning into it so they weren't a threat to Mundus and the statement about Mundus not wanting to create something weaker than him originated from the novel in the first place.
Finally DMC5, there was no fighting, more like Urizen spaming long range stuff only for Dante to try and get past his shield (IIRC in game you can break the shield and the mission is over) but regardless, Dante was never in a death threatenig situation beyond getting one shotted.
Yeah, it was Dante getting tossed for hours and being knocked unconcious by a casual Urizen (novel tells us this). With Dante casually pulling it on Alice in the manga you would think he would use it here.
You know, that actually works more of an anti feat as the rat should have insta die by Garou doing that with the AP involved in both parties.
For the sake of having the scaling make sense Imma call it an outlier (despite my hate for the word).
It doesn't, whatever way you look it with the AP involved the rat should have died the instant Garou made his move, for it to survive is an outlier
Meh, could easily be explained by the Rat and Co being 7-A since we don't take monster threat-levels to automatically determine the tier and Garou stomps a Royal Ripper who would be comparable to the Rat if we took it to threat-levels to heart. Regardless it shows WIRCF can bypass Regenerationn when it's perfected.
I never said he will use them right out off the bat, I said that once he realices how Garou is gaining the upper hand in speed to the point of getting overwhelmed he will use them
Which is fine, but I'm saying it's unknown if Anime Dante would resort to using them since he doesn't in the show. We can say the anime ignored abilities but the truth still is he didn't use them throughout it. Let's simply agree to disgree here.
With the sole exception of the anime, and Vol 2 which I already tackled above for obvious PIS, in any of those we never saw how the fight goes because once again cutscenes only show the first contact and the aftermath of a fight.
So we can't assume that he did use them otherwise and so it's once again a coin flip.
Garou himself said he was going to die in the link I posted some time ago, he could barely move, his body hurted and he could barely see what was ahead of himself.
That doesn't mean anything, Garou has been in that state multiple times and never fainted and the times he did faint we see it clearly.
How does that change the fact that they look humanoid, human bodies and faces yet they are monsters? Same with Garou who is a monster yet can go back to a human form.
Because those were special variants of monsters that was pointed out by the manga/webcomic and who were aren't similiar to Garou to begin with? Either way this point is irrelevent because we came to a consenses on what Garou is being used here.
'''DMC3 first battle, he didn't go Majin trigger because he awakaned his actual devil trigger, there is a clear reason why it didn't happen there.
Second battle, he was only tired not in a death peril or a emergency like in the manga.
Dante wasn't even in an emergancy in the manga, he just does it. He should've just used it on Arkham or Vergil if he was so willing to use it casually on Alice.
DMC anime, this would be a great point but instead it actually proves how strong and powerful his Accelerated Development is, he took a beating from a 7-A and Dante jumped from 7-B to 7-A in a matter of minutes. Besides we don't know how the fight went, if Dante was insta one shotted or got toyed by Sid but going by how fast Sid got back into the human world it could be said that Sid didn't lose time playing and went in for the win.
Dante was just 7-A, he didn't go from 7-B to 7-A during the fight.
Vol 2 has more of a PIS fight to make us readers feel that Dante is actually threatened by something, he just stomped Mundus who created the beastheads that give power to Chen, we now that Mundus is not reckless to make something stronger than him going with the visions of V manga.
Heck, the same battle even forgets how Dante's regen works by saying that both arms are broken and useless in that fight.
Mundus didn't create something stronger than him. The Beastheads is inferior to Mundus by itself, any human that came into contact with the Beastheads ultimately dies to it by turning into it so they weren't a threat to Mundus and the statement about Mundus not wanting to create something weaker than him originated from the novel in the first place.
Finally DMC5, there was no fighting, more like Urizen spaming long range stuff only for Dante to try and get past his shield (IIRC in game you can break the shield and the mission is over) but regardless, Dante was never in a death threatenig situation beyond getting one shotted.
Yeah, it was Dante getting tossed for hours and being knocked unconcious by a casual Urizen (novel tells us this). With Dante casually pulling it on Alice in the manga you would think he would use it here.
You know, that actually works more of an anti feat as the rat should have insta die by Garou doing that with the AP involved in both parties.
For the sake of having the scaling make sense Imma call it an outlier (despite my hate for the word).
It doesn't, whatever way you look it with the AP involved the rat should have died the instant Garou made his move, for it to survive is an outlier
Meh, could easily be explained by the Rat and Co being 7-A since we don't take monster threat-levels to automatically determine the tier and Garou stomps a Royal Ripper who would be comparable to the Rat if we took it to threat-levels to heart. Regardless it shows WIRCF can bypass Regenerationn when it's perfected.
I never said he will use them right out off the bat, I said that once he realices how Garou is gaining the upper hand in speed to the point of getting overwhelmed he will use them
Which is fine, but I'm saying it's unknown if Anime Dante would resort to using them since he doesn't in the show. We can say the anime ignored abilities but the truth still is he didn't use them throughout it. Let's simply agree to disgree here.
With the sole exception of the anime, and Vol 2 which I already tackled above for obvious PIS, in any of those we never saw how the fight goes because once again cutscenes only show the first contact and the aftermath of a fight.
So we can't assume that he did use them otherwise and so it's once again a coin flip.
Garou himself said he was going to die in the link I posted some time ago, he could barely move, his body hurted and he could barely see what was ahead of himself.
That doesn't mean anything, Garou has been in that state multiple times and never fainted and the times he did faint we see it clearly.
How does that change the fact that they look humanoid, human bodies and faces yet they are monsters? Same with Garou who is a monster yet can go back to a human form.
Because those were special variants of monsters that was pointed out by the manga/webcomic and who were aren't similiar to Garou to begin with? Either way this point is irrelevent because we came to a consenses on what Garou is being used here.
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>The Dante revamped profile looks good...
What exactly are you planning there? Also, link it please.
>Dante wasn't even in an emergancy in the manga
He was in a trance like state, he couldn't move nor fight back when Alice started sucking his blood or soul or whatever she was doing, it was then that, with some mockery of Rabbit/Arkham, that He used it to break free and when he got back to his human form he was bleeding a lot meaning that whatever Alice did to him carried past his transformation.
>Dante was just 7-A, he didn't go from 7-B to 7-A during the fight
Any proof of this? He was 7-B during all of DMC1 till the end and by the time of the anime (which takes place what? 3 years after the game?) he was stronger than Modeus/Bael but that doesn't mean he is 7-A, heck, Sid stomped him in a base form and when he woke up was able to fight on equal grounds with him usind Abigail DT then stomped him with his own DT.
>Mundus didn't create something stronger than him....
Your point being exactly? That doesn't contradict my point.
>Yeah, it was Dante getting tossed for hours and being knocked unconcious
Dante arrived at the Qliphoth at 04:44 and Nero got there around 8, four hours and in the few cutscenes we see Dante wasn't getting tossed around, he was just dodging and until the very end (when Nero gets in) is that Dante is knocked out and you know why, it's because he couldn't get past Yamato and its shield.
Dante was trying to get past that thing for hours and at the very end got K.O'd, then got one shoted.
The only emergency like moment is when Urizen is about to kill Nero that Dante gets up and uses DT just to get one shoted.
>Meh, could easily be explained by the Rat and Co being 7-A since we don't take monster threat-levels to automatically determine the tier
Almost all demon level monsters scale to 7-B for being ranked "demon threats" and all dragon level monsters scale to 7-A
>Garou stomps a Royal Ripper who would be comparable to the Rat if we took it to threat-levels to heart
Funny how you mention this because he killed RR with the same attack he used on the Rat and guess what? The regen save his ass.
>Which is fine, but I'm saying it's unknown if Anime Dante would resort to using them since he doesn't in the show...
They had a low budged, most if not all of the fights were static scenes with only sound and some quick image succession of images or even worse, because some where not even shown, and you expected them to have him use other stuff.
They didn't even put the DT on the show, just showing his eye and voice change to notify us of a change.
>So we can't assume that he did use them otherwise and so it's once again a coin flip...
Think of this like a game (lol), I have a boss fight and the boss is eating my health like no tomorrow, I have one item that can be used on a button press that doesn't interrup my other actions and instantaneously recharges my health bar. It's obvious that I won't use it because I'm dumb and never got pressured to use it like in that moment, right?
It's pure logic, he will use it when he gets overwelmed, plain and simple.
>That doesn't mean anything, Garou has been in that state multiple times and never fainted and the times he did faint we see it clearly.
You may have a point here but the thing is, the webcomic doesn't show that much detail, I can clearly interpret it as him faiting and "dying" once again just to wake up and start whooping everyone.
>Because those were special variants of monsters that was pointed out by the manga/webcomic and who were aren't similiar to Garou to begin with?
That doesn't change the simple fact that they are monsters with human bodies and faces, they being able to change later means nothing when Garou can do the same.
What exactly are you planning there? Also, link it please.
>Dante wasn't even in an emergancy in the manga
He was in a trance like state, he couldn't move nor fight back when Alice started sucking his blood or soul or whatever she was doing, it was then that, with some mockery of Rabbit/Arkham, that He used it to break free and when he got back to his human form he was bleeding a lot meaning that whatever Alice did to him carried past his transformation.
>Dante was just 7-A, he didn't go from 7-B to 7-A during the fight
Any proof of this? He was 7-B during all of DMC1 till the end and by the time of the anime (which takes place what? 3 years after the game?) he was stronger than Modeus/Bael but that doesn't mean he is 7-A, heck, Sid stomped him in a base form and when he woke up was able to fight on equal grounds with him usind Abigail DT then stomped him with his own DT.
>Mundus didn't create something stronger than him....
Your point being exactly? That doesn't contradict my point.
>Yeah, it was Dante getting tossed for hours and being knocked unconcious
Dante arrived at the Qliphoth at 04:44 and Nero got there around 8, four hours and in the few cutscenes we see Dante wasn't getting tossed around, he was just dodging and until the very end (when Nero gets in) is that Dante is knocked out and you know why, it's because he couldn't get past Yamato and its shield.
Dante was trying to get past that thing for hours and at the very end got K.O'd, then got one shoted.
The only emergency like moment is when Urizen is about to kill Nero that Dante gets up and uses DT just to get one shoted.
>Meh, could easily be explained by the Rat and Co being 7-A since we don't take monster threat-levels to automatically determine the tier
Almost all demon level monsters scale to 7-B for being ranked "demon threats" and all dragon level monsters scale to 7-A
>Garou stomps a Royal Ripper who would be comparable to the Rat if we took it to threat-levels to heart
Funny how you mention this because he killed RR with the same attack he used on the Rat and guess what? The regen save his ass.
>Which is fine, but I'm saying it's unknown if Anime Dante would resort to using them since he doesn't in the show...
They had a low budged, most if not all of the fights were static scenes with only sound and some quick image succession of images or even worse, because some where not even shown, and you expected them to have him use other stuff.
They didn't even put the DT on the show, just showing his eye and voice change to notify us of a change.
>So we can't assume that he did use them otherwise and so it's once again a coin flip...
Think of this like a game (lol), I have a boss fight and the boss is eating my health like no tomorrow, I have one item that can be used on a button press that doesn't interrup my other actions and instantaneously recharges my health bar. It's obvious that I won't use it because I'm dumb and never got pressured to use it like in that moment, right?
It's pure logic, he will use it when he gets overwelmed, plain and simple.
>That doesn't mean anything, Garou has been in that state multiple times and never fainted and the times he did faint we see it clearly.
You may have a point here but the thing is, the webcomic doesn't show that much detail, I can clearly interpret it as him faiting and "dying" once again just to wake up and start whooping everyone.
>Because those were special variants of monsters that was pointed out by the manga/webcomic and who were aren't similiar to Garou to begin with?
That doesn't change the simple fact that they are monsters with human bodies and faces, they being able to change later means nothing when Garou can do the same.
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What exactly are you planning there? Also, link it please.
Nothing major, just adding tabs for items, abilities, weapons, styles etc. It helps me improve my page making skills and make Dante's profile look a little more presentable. It's a little difficult to decide tab names and such so I'm kinda at a stand still at the moment.
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:Dienomite22/sandbox
He was in a trance like state, he couldn't move nor fight back when Alice started sucking his blood or soul or whatever she was doing, it was then that, with some mockery of Rabbit/Arkham, that He used it to break free and when he got back to his human form he was bleeding a lot meaning that whatever Alice did to him carried past his transformation.
He actually did move and was perfectly fine.He was calmly talking to Alice the entire time she was sucking his blood, telling her that what she doing was trying to do was "no use" and "she better stop" and "theres no going back" when she didn't stop he brought her closer to him. His bleeding only lasted for 2 panels and then he went back to normal.
Any proof of this? He was 7-B during all of DMC1 till the end and by the time of the anime (which takes place what? 3 years after the game?) he was stronger than Modeus/Bael but that doesn't mean he is 7-A, heck, Sid stomped him in a base form and when he woke up was able to fight on equal grounds with him usind Abigail DT then stomped him with his own DT.
Because that's how we rate his anime tiering. His anime tier isn't 7-B during the beginning and 7-A during the end, It's 7-A. Also if Sid stomped him and Dante didn't go for Majin then that's more proof Anime Dante here wouldn't go for it.
Your point being exactly? That doesn't contradict my point.
Because your trying to disregard the Vol 2 examples by calling something PIS that isn't. It's a correction.
Dante arrived at the Qliphoth at 04:44 and Nero got there around 8, four hours and in the few cutscenes we see Dante wasn't getting tossed around, he was just dodging and until the very end (when Nero gets in) is that Dante is knocked out and you know why, it's because he couldn't get past Yamato and its shield.
Dante was trying to get past that thing for hours and at the very end got K.O'd, then got one shoted.
The only emergency like moment is when Urizen is about to kill Nero that Dante gets up and uses DT just to get one shoted.
And he didn't use majin at any point in those four hours of him not being able to damage his enemy and dodging. That doesn't help your case for him using it here. Also, stamina upgrade.
Almost all demon level monsters scale to 7-B for being ranked "demon threats" and all dragon level monsters scale to 7-A
They're not rated based off that level alone, it's from scaling to other demon level threats that they are shown to be comparable to. We have multiple that are only 9-A, 7-C and High 7-C and just like we have Dragon level monsters that are only 7-B.
Funny how you mention this because he killed RR with the same attack he used on the Rat and guess what? The regen save his ass.
Yeah and according to Murata it was because Garou hadn't perfected the technique at the time which I already stated.
They had a low budged, most if not all of the fights were static scenes with only sound and some quick image succession of images or even worse, because some where not even shown, and you expected them to have him use other stuff.
They didn't even put the DT on the show, just showing his eye and voice change to notify us of a change.
Literally not an excuse. We don't know why Madhouse didn't include anything so we can't try and make an excuse for it and just take the events as they happened in the anime.
Think of this like a game (lol), I have a boss fight and the boss is eating my health like no tomorrow, I have one item that can be used on a button press that doesn't interrup my other actions and instantaneously recharges my health bar. It's obvious that I won't use it because I'm dumb and never got pressured to use it like in that moment, right?
It's pure logic, he will use it when he gets overwelmed, plain and simple.
Except his anime incarnation says otherwise. If this was 3, 1, 2,4 and 5 Dante I could agree but it isn't.
You may have a point here but the thing is, the webcomic doesn't show that much detail, I can clearly interpret it as him faiting and "dying" once again just to wake up and start whooping everyone.
I know but just know that isn't necessarily what happened. We don't know what happened. This is pointless because we know what Garou is being used now.
That doesn't change the simple fact that they are monsters with human bodies and faces, they being able to change later means nothing when Garou can do the same.
Them being able to switch between forms is entirely irrelevent because the examples you chose are special monsters to begin with. I don't know why you mention Garou changing back to human is the same as those monsters changing back when Garou's change is involuntary and he isn't a monster anymore so he can't turn back into one unlike the special monsters who just switch between it whenever they want. Once again this is entirely irrelevent because we know what version of Garou is being used here now.
Nothing major, just adding tabs for items, abilities, weapons, styles etc. It helps me improve my page making skills and make Dante's profile look a little more presentable. It's a little difficult to decide tab names and such so I'm kinda at a stand still at the moment.
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:Dienomite22/sandbox
He was in a trance like state, he couldn't move nor fight back when Alice started sucking his blood or soul or whatever she was doing, it was then that, with some mockery of Rabbit/Arkham, that He used it to break free and when he got back to his human form he was bleeding a lot meaning that whatever Alice did to him carried past his transformation.
He actually did move and was perfectly fine.He was calmly talking to Alice the entire time she was sucking his blood, telling her that what she doing was trying to do was "no use" and "she better stop" and "theres no going back" when she didn't stop he brought her closer to him. His bleeding only lasted for 2 panels and then he went back to normal.
Any proof of this? He was 7-B during all of DMC1 till the end and by the time of the anime (which takes place what? 3 years after the game?) he was stronger than Modeus/Bael but that doesn't mean he is 7-A, heck, Sid stomped him in a base form and when he woke up was able to fight on equal grounds with him usind Abigail DT then stomped him with his own DT.
Because that's how we rate his anime tiering. His anime tier isn't 7-B during the beginning and 7-A during the end, It's 7-A. Also if Sid stomped him and Dante didn't go for Majin then that's more proof Anime Dante here wouldn't go for it.
Your point being exactly? That doesn't contradict my point.
Because your trying to disregard the Vol 2 examples by calling something PIS that isn't. It's a correction.
Dante arrived at the Qliphoth at 04:44 and Nero got there around 8, four hours and in the few cutscenes we see Dante wasn't getting tossed around, he was just dodging and until the very end (when Nero gets in) is that Dante is knocked out and you know why, it's because he couldn't get past Yamato and its shield.
Dante was trying to get past that thing for hours and at the very end got K.O'd, then got one shoted.
The only emergency like moment is when Urizen is about to kill Nero that Dante gets up and uses DT just to get one shoted.
And he didn't use majin at any point in those four hours of him not being able to damage his enemy and dodging. That doesn't help your case for him using it here. Also, stamina upgrade.
Almost all demon level monsters scale to 7-B for being ranked "demon threats" and all dragon level monsters scale to 7-A
They're not rated based off that level alone, it's from scaling to other demon level threats that they are shown to be comparable to. We have multiple that are only 9-A, 7-C and High 7-C and just like we have Dragon level monsters that are only 7-B.
Funny how you mention this because he killed RR with the same attack he used on the Rat and guess what? The regen save his ass.
Yeah and according to Murata it was because Garou hadn't perfected the technique at the time which I already stated.
They had a low budged, most if not all of the fights were static scenes with only sound and some quick image succession of images or even worse, because some where not even shown, and you expected them to have him use other stuff.
They didn't even put the DT on the show, just showing his eye and voice change to notify us of a change.
Literally not an excuse. We don't know why Madhouse didn't include anything so we can't try and make an excuse for it and just take the events as they happened in the anime.
Think of this like a game (lol), I have a boss fight and the boss is eating my health like no tomorrow, I have one item that can be used on a button press that doesn't interrup my other actions and instantaneously recharges my health bar. It's obvious that I won't use it because I'm dumb and never got pressured to use it like in that moment, right?
It's pure logic, he will use it when he gets overwelmed, plain and simple.
Except his anime incarnation says otherwise. If this was 3, 1, 2,4 and 5 Dante I could agree but it isn't.
You may have a point here but the thing is, the webcomic doesn't show that much detail, I can clearly interpret it as him faiting and "dying" once again just to wake up and start whooping everyone.
I know but just know that isn't necessarily what happened. We don't know what happened. This is pointless because we know what Garou is being used now.
That doesn't change the simple fact that they are monsters with human bodies and faces, they being able to change later means nothing when Garou can do the same.
Them being able to switch between forms is entirely irrelevent because the examples you chose are special monsters to begin with. I don't know why you mention Garou changing back to human is the same as those monsters changing back when Garou's change is involuntary and he isn't a monster anymore so he can't turn back into one unlike the special monsters who just switch between it whenever they want. Once again this is entirely irrelevent because we know what version of Garou is being used here now.
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>He actually did move and was perfectly fine. He was calmly talking to Alice the entire time she was sucking his blood, telling her that what she...
Because he was in trance, he didn't move nor reacted when she bit him, that talking was him trying to break from it, telling her to not try anything.
And you can clearly see Dante bleeding all the way until he sits on the couch there, past his Majin Trigger.
>Because that's how we rate his anime tiering...
Because his anime rating is at the end of it, not at the beggining. There is more proof indicating he is 7-B until the very end that Sid stomped him.
>Dante didn't go for Majin then that's more proof Anime Dante here wouldn't go for it.
Already tackled this some posts above but in case: "if Dante was insta one shotted or got toyed by Sid but going by how fast Sid got back into the human world it could be said that Sid didn't lose time playing and went in for the win."
>Because your trying to disregard the Vol 2 examples by calling something PIS that isn't. It's a correction.
Because the battle against Chen has a lot of PIS, the biggest example is Dante having one arm impaled and the other broken yet he couldn't regen them, specially when the games contradict it on how fast and efficient his regen is.
>And he didn't use majin at any point in those four hours of him not being able to damage his enemy and dodging.
Because he wasn't threatened to the point of pulling it off, even then, the only thread that happened there was when Nero was about to get killed and Dante decided to go DT and fight like that.
Also, their stamina is already very high, scaling from Vergil who could fight all night against Dante and Arkham and even then found strengh to fight Mundus.
>They're not rated based off that level alone...
Mostly of those demon threats are 7-B for being "monster levels", same with the drang threats which are mostly 7-A for being that, a dragon threat.
>Yeah and according to Murata...
Yet he isn't WoG but Ok, also, again, the big Ap difference between them should have made him insta kill him.
>Literally not an excuse. We don't know why Madhouse...
I know. The thing is, the only time Dante was pushed around was in the final fight, even then we don't see the whole fight beyond "Sid grabs his leg" then he walks away and Dante is impaled and on the human world time has barely passed.
He in any moment needed to use any abilitie there.
>Except his anime incarnation says otherwise. If this was 3, 1, 2,4 and 5 Dante I could agree but it isn't.
Once again, it's pure logic. I talked about it already but again, he never was pushed, never was the "weaker one" till his fight with Sid that going by the time frame he took to go back to the human world it wasn't that much time.
>I know but just know that isn't necessarily what happened...
Lets agree to disagree here for the moment until Murata makes that chapter to see more clearly the scene.
>Them being able to switch between forms is entirely irrelevent because the examples you chose are special monsters to begin with.
It doesn't matter. The Original point was that there are not monsters with human bodies/faces yet I presented some that do, which is the same as Garou as a full monster.
But yes, lets drop the subject.
Because he was in trance, he didn't move nor reacted when she bit him, that talking was him trying to break from it, telling her to not try anything.
And you can clearly see Dante bleeding all the way until he sits on the couch there, past his Majin Trigger.
>Because that's how we rate his anime tiering...
Because his anime rating is at the end of it, not at the beggining. There is more proof indicating he is 7-B until the very end that Sid stomped him.
>Dante didn't go for Majin then that's more proof Anime Dante here wouldn't go for it.
Already tackled this some posts above but in case: "if Dante was insta one shotted or got toyed by Sid but going by how fast Sid got back into the human world it could be said that Sid didn't lose time playing and went in for the win."
>Because your trying to disregard the Vol 2 examples by calling something PIS that isn't. It's a correction.
Because the battle against Chen has a lot of PIS, the biggest example is Dante having one arm impaled and the other broken yet he couldn't regen them, specially when the games contradict it on how fast and efficient his regen is.
>And he didn't use majin at any point in those four hours of him not being able to damage his enemy and dodging.
Because he wasn't threatened to the point of pulling it off, even then, the only thread that happened there was when Nero was about to get killed and Dante decided to go DT and fight like that.
Also, their stamina is already very high, scaling from Vergil who could fight all night against Dante and Arkham and even then found strengh to fight Mundus.
>They're not rated based off that level alone...
Mostly of those demon threats are 7-B for being "monster levels", same with the drang threats which are mostly 7-A for being that, a dragon threat.
>Yeah and according to Murata...
Yet he isn't WoG but Ok, also, again, the big Ap difference between them should have made him insta kill him.
>Literally not an excuse. We don't know why Madhouse...
I know. The thing is, the only time Dante was pushed around was in the final fight, even then we don't see the whole fight beyond "Sid grabs his leg" then he walks away and Dante is impaled and on the human world time has barely passed.
He in any moment needed to use any abilitie there.
>Except his anime incarnation says otherwise. If this was 3, 1, 2,4 and 5 Dante I could agree but it isn't.
Once again, it's pure logic. I talked about it already but again, he never was pushed, never was the "weaker one" till his fight with Sid that going by the time frame he took to go back to the human world it wasn't that much time.
>I know but just know that isn't necessarily what happened...
Lets agree to disagree here for the moment until Murata makes that chapter to see more clearly the scene.
>Them being able to switch between forms is entirely irrelevent because the examples you chose are special monsters to begin with.
It doesn't matter. The Original point was that there are not monsters with human bodies/faces yet I presented some that do, which is the same as Garou as a full monster.
But yes, lets drop the subject.
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wew what even is this thread
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A debates equivalent of a stand clashZephyrosOmega said:
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Because he was in trance, he didn't move nor reacted when she bit him, that talking was him trying to break from it, telling her to not try anything.
And you can clearly see Dante bleeding all the way until he sits on the couch there, past his Majin Trigger.
>In a trance
No, he literally is wide awake and commenting on her behavior while conciously pulling her closer to prevent her from trying to escape. Also, his slight bleeding doesn't mean anything when he survived worst and he continues on without any issues seconds later.
Because his anime rating is at the end of it, not at the beggining. There is more proof indicating he is 7-B until the very end that Sid stomped him.
No, otherwise Baul and Modeus would 7-B scaling from and early anime Dante but they're not and their durability would also reflect that but it doesn't. The Sid that defeated Dante had Abigail's power and was in the process of transforming into Abigail so he was likely 7-A still.
Already tackled this some posts above but in case: "if Dante was insta one shotted or got toyed by Sid but going by how fast Sid got back into the human world it could be said that Sid didn't lose time playing and went in for the win."
Sure but we see that their was a fight between the two and the little of it we see Dante was on the losing end so he should have been willing to use majin if so willing to use it on Alice in the manga.
Because the battle against Chen has a lot of PIS, the biggest example is Dante having one arm impaled and the other broken yet he couldn't regen them, specially when the games contradict it on how fast and efficient his regen is.
I agree but there was no reason to mention Mundus creating the Beastheads as PIS because it's not.
Because he wasn't threatened to the point of pulling it off, even then, the only thread that happened there was when Nero was about to get killed and Dante decided to go DT and fight like that.
He was beyond threaten to pull it off if he couldn't scratch his enemy and has to resort to dodging their attacks. Dante deciding to use DT after getting knocked out by someone he couldn't scratch while they were sitting down isn't helping his case about him using majin.
Also, their stamina is already very high, scaling from Vergil who could fight all night against Dante and Arkham and even then found strengh to fight Mundus.
Extremely high for being implied to have battled Urizen who outclassed him for hours.
Mostly of those demon threats are 7-B for being "monster levels", same with the drang threats which are mostly 7-A for being that, a dragon threat.
But that isn't necessarily true as I already said above. Monsters aren't a tier for their threat level alone just as Heroes aren't a tier for their hero rank alone. Threat levels and Hero rank are just supporting evidence.
Yet he isn't WoG but Ok, also, again, the big Ap difference between them should have made him insta kill him.
I can't stop you from disregarding Murata's statement but it makes sense. The AP difference is once again irrelevent because your basing it's tier entirely off it's threat level which we don't do.
I know. The thing is, the only time Dante was pushed around was in the final fight, even then we don't see the whole fight beyond "Sid grabs his leg" then he walks away and Dante is impaled and on the human world time has barely passed.
He in any moment needed to use any abilitie there.
So we can't assume he did or didn't use the abilities, meaning it's once again a toss up if he would in this battle.
And you can clearly see Dante bleeding all the way until he sits on the couch there, past his Majin Trigger.
>In a trance
No, he literally is wide awake and commenting on her behavior while conciously pulling her closer to prevent her from trying to escape. Also, his slight bleeding doesn't mean anything when he survived worst and he continues on without any issues seconds later.
Because his anime rating is at the end of it, not at the beggining. There is more proof indicating he is 7-B until the very end that Sid stomped him.
No, otherwise Baul and Modeus would 7-B scaling from and early anime Dante but they're not and their durability would also reflect that but it doesn't. The Sid that defeated Dante had Abigail's power and was in the process of transforming into Abigail so he was likely 7-A still.
Already tackled this some posts above but in case: "if Dante was insta one shotted or got toyed by Sid but going by how fast Sid got back into the human world it could be said that Sid didn't lose time playing and went in for the win."
Sure but we see that their was a fight between the two and the little of it we see Dante was on the losing end so he should have been willing to use majin if so willing to use it on Alice in the manga.
Because the battle against Chen has a lot of PIS, the biggest example is Dante having one arm impaled and the other broken yet he couldn't regen them, specially when the games contradict it on how fast and efficient his regen is.
I agree but there was no reason to mention Mundus creating the Beastheads as PIS because it's not.
Because he wasn't threatened to the point of pulling it off, even then, the only thread that happened there was when Nero was about to get killed and Dante decided to go DT and fight like that.
He was beyond threaten to pull it off if he couldn't scratch his enemy and has to resort to dodging their attacks. Dante deciding to use DT after getting knocked out by someone he couldn't scratch while they were sitting down isn't helping his case about him using majin.
Also, their stamina is already very high, scaling from Vergil who could fight all night against Dante and Arkham and even then found strengh to fight Mundus.
Extremely high for being implied to have battled Urizen who outclassed him for hours.
Mostly of those demon threats are 7-B for being "monster levels", same with the drang threats which are mostly 7-A for being that, a dragon threat.
But that isn't necessarily true as I already said above. Monsters aren't a tier for their threat level alone just as Heroes aren't a tier for their hero rank alone. Threat levels and Hero rank are just supporting evidence.
Yet he isn't WoG but Ok, also, again, the big Ap difference between them should have made him insta kill him.
I can't stop you from disregarding Murata's statement but it makes sense. The AP difference is once again irrelevent because your basing it's tier entirely off it's threat level which we don't do.
I know. The thing is, the only time Dante was pushed around was in the final fight, even then we don't see the whole fight beyond "Sid grabs his leg" then he walks away and Dante is impaled and on the human world time has barely passed.
He in any moment needed to use any abilitie there.
So we can't assume he did or didn't use the abilities, meaning it's once again a toss up if he would in this battle.
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>No, he literally is wide awake and commenting on her behavior while conciously pulling her closer to prevent her from trying to escape.
Trance is an abnormal state of wakefulness in which a person is not self-aware and is either altogether unresponsive to external stimuli (but nevertheless capable of pursuing and realizing an aim) or is selectively responsive in following the directions of the person (if any) who has induced the trance. Trance states may occur involuntarily and unbidden (wikipedia )
Medical Definition of trance: A sleeplike altered state of consciousness (as of deep hypnosis) usually characterized by partly suspended animation with diminished or absent sensory and motor activity and subsequent lack of recall.
He is in a literall trance.(page 8) He could barely move and barely talked in hopes of her leaving him. (page 9) And then the Majin DT awakens to save his ass.(page 10)
Realized that it didn't link the manga pages I wanted, still, you get the point.
> Also, his slight bleeding doesn't mean anything when he survived worst and he continues on without any issues seconds later.
What a way to miss the point.
Yes, he regenerated back but the point is that whatever Alice did to him was able to stay past beyond his instant Regenerationn along with his Majin Trigger which as you know Devil Forms boost the Regenerationn.
>No, otherwise Baul and Modeus would 7-B scaling from and early anime Dante but they're not and their durability would also reflect that but it doesn't.
Baul is a 7-B who damaged Dante in a fight (he was stomped but still), Modeus who is stronger than Baul is scaled to 7-B too and was dispatched quickly by Dante. Their reason for being 7-B is for being demon lord and thus stronger than mundus generals but I very much doubt they scale to Nightmare who, as you know, is the second 7-B of the series behind Dante himself.
Dante doesn't need to be 1 tier higher than them to stomp/defeat them. Look at Griffon, Phantom, Shadow and nightmare itself.
>The Sid that defeated Dante had Abigail's power and was in the process of transforming into Abigail so he was likely 7-A still.
And? My point is the same regardless if Sid was becoming 7-A or was full blown 7-A. He stomped a post DMC1 Dante who most than likely scales to his DMC1 self as there is nothing proving he is 7-A and is only after he awakens that he is able to fight toe-to-toe with Sid who is at full power.
All the evidence points that Dante was 7-B during most of the Anime and only became 7-A at the very end.
>Sure but we see that their was a fight between the two and the little of it we see Dante was on the losing end so he should have been willing to use majin if so willing to use it on Alice in the manga.
He got stomped there, Sid didn't lose time. You can go and see the video again, he didn't lose time dealing with Dante and going back to the human world.
How can you use some ability that can make you win (dubious because of Dante being 7-B) if you get insta stomped?
>I agree but there was no reason to mention Mundus creating the Beastheads as PIS because it's not.
My point was that the beastheads possesing Chen being stronger than Mundus is PIS, not him creating them.
>He was beyond threaten to pull it off if he couldn't scratch his enemy and has to resort to dodging their attacks.
He wasn't pushed to the point he was dodging everything, you can see in the cutscene how he was going to attack with E&I, and moments earlier him bouncing back, probably because he was trying to break the shield.
IIRC the mission is over the moment you break the shield so it is possible that he was taking it down gradually or even destroyed it at some point, which is supported by the fact that Urizen decided to drop the shield and one shot Dante when he was pushing back with the Sparda.
>Dante deciding to use DT after getting knocked out by someone he couldn't scratch while they were sitting down isn't helping his case about him using majin.
I got nothing on this.
>But that isn't necessarily true as I already said above. Monsters aren't a tier for their threat level alone just as Heroes aren't a tier for their hero rank alone. Threat levels and Hero rank are just supporting evidence.
The point still stands tho, most demon lvls are 7-B for being demons and dragons being 7-A for the same reason.
>So we can't assume he did or didn't use the abilities, meaning it's once again a toss up if he would in this battle.
We don't see the fight once again, only see how it ends. But it is pure logic, if he is in need of it he can use it. Sid stomped him, meaning he didn't have the time to use it.
Anyways, I'm gettin tired of this back and forth.
I vote Dante for eventually using time slow/stop or ******* him up with his automatic soul hax (and since Garou lacks soul resistance one hit is enough) or using deconstruction hax or Majin Trigger to make him faint of sheer terror.
Trance is an abnormal state of wakefulness in which a person is not self-aware and is either altogether unresponsive to external stimuli (but nevertheless capable of pursuing and realizing an aim) or is selectively responsive in following the directions of the person (if any) who has induced the trance. Trance states may occur involuntarily and unbidden (wikipedia )
Medical Definition of trance: A sleeplike altered state of consciousness (as of deep hypnosis) usually characterized by partly suspended animation with diminished or absent sensory and motor activity and subsequent lack of recall.
He is in a literall trance.(page 8) He could barely move and barely talked in hopes of her leaving him. (page 9) And then the Majin DT awakens to save his ass.(page 10)
Realized that it didn't link the manga pages I wanted, still, you get the point.
> Also, his slight bleeding doesn't mean anything when he survived worst and he continues on without any issues seconds later.
What a way to miss the point.
Yes, he regenerated back but the point is that whatever Alice did to him was able to stay past beyond his instant Regenerationn along with his Majin Trigger which as you know Devil Forms boost the Regenerationn.
>No, otherwise Baul and Modeus would 7-B scaling from and early anime Dante but they're not and their durability would also reflect that but it doesn't.
Baul is a 7-B who damaged Dante in a fight (he was stomped but still), Modeus who is stronger than Baul is scaled to 7-B too and was dispatched quickly by Dante. Their reason for being 7-B is for being demon lord and thus stronger than mundus generals but I very much doubt they scale to Nightmare who, as you know, is the second 7-B of the series behind Dante himself.
Dante doesn't need to be 1 tier higher than them to stomp/defeat them. Look at Griffon, Phantom, Shadow and nightmare itself.
>The Sid that defeated Dante had Abigail's power and was in the process of transforming into Abigail so he was likely 7-A still.
And? My point is the same regardless if Sid was becoming 7-A or was full blown 7-A. He stomped a post DMC1 Dante who most than likely scales to his DMC1 self as there is nothing proving he is 7-A and is only after he awakens that he is able to fight toe-to-toe with Sid who is at full power.
All the evidence points that Dante was 7-B during most of the Anime and only became 7-A at the very end.
>Sure but we see that their was a fight between the two and the little of it we see Dante was on the losing end so he should have been willing to use majin if so willing to use it on Alice in the manga.
He got stomped there, Sid didn't lose time. You can go and see the video again, he didn't lose time dealing with Dante and going back to the human world.
How can you use some ability that can make you win (dubious because of Dante being 7-B) if you get insta stomped?
>I agree but there was no reason to mention Mundus creating the Beastheads as PIS because it's not.
My point was that the beastheads possesing Chen being stronger than Mundus is PIS, not him creating them.
>He was beyond threaten to pull it off if he couldn't scratch his enemy and has to resort to dodging their attacks.
He wasn't pushed to the point he was dodging everything, you can see in the cutscene how he was going to attack with E&I, and moments earlier him bouncing back, probably because he was trying to break the shield.
IIRC the mission is over the moment you break the shield so it is possible that he was taking it down gradually or even destroyed it at some point, which is supported by the fact that Urizen decided to drop the shield and one shot Dante when he was pushing back with the Sparda.
>Dante deciding to use DT after getting knocked out by someone he couldn't scratch while they were sitting down isn't helping his case about him using majin.
I got nothing on this.
>But that isn't necessarily true as I already said above. Monsters aren't a tier for their threat level alone just as Heroes aren't a tier for their hero rank alone. Threat levels and Hero rank are just supporting evidence.
The point still stands tho, most demon lvls are 7-B for being demons and dragons being 7-A for the same reason.
>So we can't assume he did or didn't use the abilities, meaning it's once again a toss up if he would in this battle.
We don't see the fight once again, only see how it ends. But it is pure logic, if he is in need of it he can use it. Sid stomped him, meaning he didn't have the time to use it.
Anyways, I'm gettin tired of this back and forth.
I vote Dante for eventually using time slow/stop or ******* him up with his automatic soul hax (and since Garou lacks soul resistance one hit is enough) or using deconstruction hax or Majin Trigger to make him faint of sheer terror.
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hmm
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This isn't even worth arguing anymore. It's became a hax stomp after the soul hax revisions for Dante went through.
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Revisions are OP
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This debate was epic tho, props to two of you
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And thusly, we see the end of a good debate, marred by the curse of sudden revisions.
Curses.
Curses.
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Revisions is the strongest hax on this site. After SBA Lawhax.
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I'm sitting here chuckling at it all.
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Archer vs Cole
Now Dante vs Garou
Being a good debater is suffering
Now Dante vs Garou
Being a good debater is suffering
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