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Devil May Cry Discussion Thread

Except I will put Abigail =/= Mundus. I agree with the rest.

Also the one Anime Dante fights is Sid being amped by Abigail's powers, so he may not even be as strong as Prime Abigail.

Abigail also need not be Mundus level, can just be Pluto level to be Demon King.
I find it hard to believe that Madhouse was referring to an obscure demon king that almost no one in the fanbase knows about, and not to Mundus, who is usually called the Demon King and is the most well-known antagonist in the franchise (after Vergil).

Tbf the main Trish from 1 to anime was Lady tier, at 8-C level, till in 4 she reached as far as 4-C

Did Alastor in canon grant Dante a huge increase or something?

Also Dante in anime was already more depressed and laid back after the events of 1, he likely wasnt fond to face Trish yet again with her being under Mundus wing....again....just reiterating something he had to deal in the past but this time she couldnt be changed over

Also mainline Mundus didnt make demons above him, as seen with Nightmare which was his most powerful, so why would VM have a Trish of this level of power

Its more logical to call it outlierish or Dante had a hard time more precisely in a state of mind rather then physicals
I think it's either a big outlier or it's become much more powerful via the Nexus DE amp, as Tanin said. Even though it seems strange that neither Dante nor the narrative specified that Dante passively absorbed the energy of the Demon World compared to the other demons present with him.
 
I think it's either a big outlier or it's become much more powerful via the Nexus DE amp, as Tanin said. Even though it seems strange that neither Dante nor the narrative specified that Dante passively absorbed the energy of the Demon World compared to the other demons present with him.
Tbf Dante growing stronger over time between each new series isnt precisely stated either, you are shown on screen

Could also be the fact the writers of the novel dont think of details like Dante growing stronger over time as much, usually in fiction you can tell without a claim of "yeah they grew stronger" is the case from their actions and all that
 
Tbf Dante growing stronger over time between each new series isnt precisely stated either, you are shown on screen

Could also be the fact the writers of the novel dont think of details like Dante growing stronger over time as much, usually in fiction you can tell without a claim of "yeah they grew stronger" is the case from their actions and all that
When he replenishes his energy via the Beastheads, Dante notices this. When he arrived in the Alternate Demon World and before the castle of Alternate Mundus, neither Dante nor the narration mentions that he has become significantly more powerful than before, nor does it acknowledge that he is absorbing more energy.

Dante's passive accelerated development is different from energy absorption; the change happens naturally over years. Also, Dante knows he becomes more powerful between games/novels because in Volume 2 he himself implies that he is more powerful than he was in DMC1.
 
I find it hard to believe that Madhouse was referring to an obscure demon king that almost no one in the fanbase knows about, and not to Mundus, who is usually called the Demon King and is the most well-known antagonist in the franchise (after Vergil).
Except Lady simply stated that "The Demon said to have powers on par with Demon Kings". It's plural for Kings. So Abigail is just a very strong Demon comparable to Demon Kings but isn't a real Demon King or even powers that are implied to be on par with a specific DK like Mundus.

Also it doesn't change the fact that Dante doesn't fight the true Prime Abigail, just Sid who gets it's powers from it. I mean we have Arius powered by Argosax. We don't just make him Argosax level because of it now do we?
 
When he replenishes his energy via the Beastheads, Dante notices this. When he arrived in the Alternate Demon World and before the castle of Alternate Mundus, neither Dante nor the narration mentions that he has become significantly more powerful than before, nor does it acknowledge that he is absorbing more energy.
There is mention of one other thing in the narration. Beryl collapses while Dante moves on because the Keep is such that only entities who are close enough in power to the DK can enter it out something along those lines.
Dante's passive accelerated development is different from energy absorption; the change happens naturally over years. Also, Dante knows he becomes more powerful between games/novels because in Volume 2 he himself implies that he is more powerful than he was in DMC1.
It is also based on experiences and stimuli. It isn't just passive, it also develops through battle and experience.
 
Except Lady simply stated that "The Demon said to have powers on par with Demon Kings". It's plural for Kings. So Abigail is just a very strong Demon comparable to Demon Kings but isn't a real Demon King or even powers that are implied to be on par with a specific DK like Mundus.
It seems to me that Lady said "demon king's", not "demon kings".

Also it doesn't change the fact that Dante doesn't fight the true Prime Abigail, just Sid who gets it's powers from it. I mean we have Arius powered by Argosax. We don't just make him Argosax level because of it now do we?
Sid said he now had enough power to rule the Demon World, so it was clearly Prime Abigail. There's also really no reason to compare the cases of Arius and Sid. Just because one failed in his ritual doesn't mean the other failed too.

There is mention of one other thing in the narration. Beryl collapses while Dante moves on because the Keep is such that only entities who are close enough in power to the DK can enter it out something along those lines.
This doesn't really have anything to do with the DE's energy absorption because Beryl hadn't absorbed any; she's not a demon.
 
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This doesn't really have anything to do with the DE's energy absorption because Beryl hadn't absorbed any; she's not a demon.
You have misunderstood what I really meant. In no way have I said that Beryl is absorbing DE. I was more saying that the statement seems to suggest that Dante is strong enough to contend with VM by the time he reaches the keep. While someone like Beryl even after being marked by the BH and also resisting the DW effects even more than the rebel army could not enter the keep.
It seems to me that Lady said "demon king's", not "demon kings".
That's a completely incoherent sentence, lol.
"The Demon said to have power on par with Demon King's"
Demon King's what exactly? The sentence must continue if it has an apostrophe. So could you elaborate on your theory?

Sid said he now had enough power to rule the Demon World, so it was clearly Prime Abigail. There's also really no reason to compare the cases of Arius and Sid. Just because one failed in his ritual doesn't mean the other failed too.
He said he had power to rule the DW. But does he necessarily have it? Maybe he does. But even if he has Prime Abigail levels of strength, that doesn't necessarily mean Mundus level especially as we are dealing with plural Demon Kings as I have explained above.
 
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You have misunderstood what I really meant. In no way have I said that Beryl is absorbing DE. I was more saying that the statement seems to suggest that Dante is strong enough to contend with VM by the time he reaches the keep. While someone like Beryl even after being marked by the BH and also resisting the DW effects even more than the rebel army could not enter the keep.
Ah okay, but then I don't really see your point with Beryl. My argument for saying that Dante didn't become more powerful between his fight with Alternate Trish and Alternate Mundus is that the demonic energy of the Demon World didn't "recharge" Dante because it's never stated, unlike with the rebel demons or when the Beastheads did that to Dante.

That's a completely incoherent sentence, lol.
"The Demon said to have power on par with Demon King's"
Demon King's what exactly? The sentence must continue if it has an apostrophe. So could you elaborate on your theory?
No, you're right, I'm just stupid lol.

He said he had power to rule the DW. But does he necessarily have it? Maybe he does. But even if he has Prime Abigail levels of strength, that doesn't necessarily mean Mundus level especially as we are dealing with plural Demon Kings as I have explained above.
To be honest, the only Demon King who has shown himself to be incomparable to Mundus and Argosax is Urizen, but that's because he's Sparda's son. Pluto was killed by Mundus, but that doesn't necessarily means he's significantly weaker; we don't even know if there was a real fight. I think the Demon Kings in general are comparable, and therefore saying Abigail = Mundus isn't really invalid imo.
 
I just finished Volume 2 and it seems to be a mess in terms of powerscaling:

- Trish from the alternate universe was stronger and faster than Dante because she had Alastor (Dante himself said so and only beat her through cunning and skill). Since when does Alastor boost its user to that extent? The worst part is that Dante struggled against an amp Trish but easily beat Void Mundus a few pages later. Trish w/ Alastor is superior to Void Mundus, what the hell? The only explanation I have is that Dante became astronomically more powerful between these two fights, probably thanks to the energy of the nexus, and that would mean that EoS Volume 2 Dante > Void Mundus > Trish w/Alastor > Volume 2 Dante > or = Anime Dante > Abigail = Mundus = Argosax
It's an outlier, pretty simple.
- Dante had difficulty beating Chen partly because he had Sparda's skill (according to Chen and Dante himself) whereas Dante was supposed to have surpassed Sparda since he was able to beat Void Mundus who killed Sparda. Does this mean that Sparda is superior to Void Mundus and that Dante only surpassed Sparda after defeating Chen? Or perhaps Dante was already stronger and faster than Sparda, but he still hadn't surpassed his skill at that point?
Power =/= skill

Just because Dante is more powerful than Sparda doesn't mean he has the skill to keep up (which with DMC4 claiming his skill have surpassed his father then we have consistency)




Also, about the Abigail = demon king thing, didn't we talk about it? hell I went looking for the raws to double check when we were arguing
 
Also, about the Abigail = demon king thing, didn't we talk about it? hell I went looking for the raws to double check when we were arguing
Yes, but I still think Abigail is comparable to Mundus and Argosax, as explained to Tanin above.

It's an outlier, pretty simple.
Yeah, that's the best conclusion I think (and so this is the second outlier scaling-wise I've heard about for DMC).
 
Yes, but I still think Abigail is comparable to Mundus and Argosax, as explained to Tanin above.
Yeah, I know. Did you forget it? The raws actually says Abigail did throw hands with a demon king at some point and Sid has said power, that's why I conceded when we were discussing the issue.

Yeah, that's the best conclusion I think (and so this is the second outlier scaling-wise I've heard about for DMC).
There are a ton of outliers, most come from Deadly Fortune lol (goes to show how much they wanted Nero to replace Dante)
 
Yeah, I know. Did you forget it? The raws actually says Abigail did throw hands with a demon king at some point and Sid has said power, that's why I conceded when we were discussing the issue.
Wait, you never told me about that lol. Can you send them please?

There are a ton of outliers, most come from Deadly Fortune lol (goes to show how much they wanted Nero to replace Dante)
In terms of AP/LS/Speed, yeah, I know a few.
 
Ah okay, but then I don't really see your point with Beryl. My argument for saying that Dante didn't become more powerful between his fight with Alternate Trish and Alternate Mundus is that the demonic energy of the Demon World didn't "recharge" Dante because it's never stated, unlike with the rebel demons or when the Beastheads did that to Dante.
I think the recharging was implied for everyone including Dante in the narration. Also, I think it may have been mentioned in the narration that Dante was already getting energised by being in the Alternate Universe when he first entered it. But I could also be wrong and misremember stuff.

Anyhow, the narration implied that Dante has difficulty with an amped Trish with Alastor but beats her eventually. Dante then traverses with the rebel army till they reach the keep with them being implied to get energised while doing so.
And we have Dante who is so much stronger than before that he just beats VM instinctively. So he definitely grew in power whether through getting energised from DE or just RE through prior battles, he is stronger than before as implied in the narrative.

No, you're right, I'm just stupid lol.
That's ok lol.

To be honest, the only Demon King who has shown himself to be incomparable to Mundus and Argosax is Urizen, but that's because he's Sparda's son. Pluto was killed by Mundus, but that doesn't necessarily means he's significantly weaker; we don't even know if there was a real fight. I think the Demon Kings in general are comparable, and therefore saying Abigail = Mundus isn't really invalid imo.
Urizen isn't even a DK if we go by Trish's statements.
Also, guess the odd one out between Pluto, Mundus, Argosax and Abigail.
Yeah, only Abigail doesn't have the DK title. If strong enough then could have challenged them for the title.
Yeah, I know. Did you forget it? The raws actually says Abigail did throw hands with a demon king at some point and Sid has said power, that's why I conceded when we were discussing the issue
This is curious @Ser_Hakim_Dayne don't ya think. This might change our discussion a lot. Can you share the RAWs Tony?
 
Yeah, I know. Did you forget it? The raws actually says Abigail did throw hands with a demon king at some point and Sid has said power, that's why I conceded when we were discussing the issue.
How you obtain raws for an anime? You found a site or something subtitled in japanese?
 
How you obtain raws for an anime? You found a site or something subtitled in japanese?
Spanish subs (which are funnily enough much more accurate) then put on the auto japanese subs and translate them.

It's obviously not 100% accurate but its better than the english dub/subs
 
Spanish subs (which are funnily enough much more accurate) then put on the auto japanese subs and translate them.

It's obviously not 100% accurate but its better than the english dub/subs
Does that mean you love "Donté, el exterminador de demonios"?
 
Spanish subs (which are funnily enough much more accurate) then put on the auto japanese subs and translate them.

It's obviously not 100% accurate but its better than the english dub/subs
And why would the wiki accept a spanish dub words...how you know its more accurate to begin with
 
And why would the wiki accept a spanish dub words...how you know its more accurate to begin with
I never said they should accept it... or that we should use it lmao

This is a legit "trust me" moment but with my very limited understanding of the language and translating the japanese subtitles I found out that Spanish is a much better translation than english.

I don't expect you to obviously believe me nor do I care, besides it doesn't really matter when someone can pick the japanese subs directly and use those for more accuracy over whatever they did when translating it to english.
 
I think the recharging was implied for everyone including Dante in the narration. Also, I think it may have been mentioned in the narration that Dante was already getting energised by being in the Alternate Universe when he first entered it. But I could also be wrong and misremember stuff.

Anyhow, the narration implied that Dante has difficulty with an amped Trish with Alastor but beats her eventually. Dante then traverses with the rebel army till they reach the keep with them being implied to get energised while doing so.
And we have Dante who is so much stronger than before that he just beats VM instinctively. So he definitely grew in power whether through getting energised from DE or just RE through prior battles, he is stronger than before as implied in the narrative.
Or it's just an outlier, because I don't see why the author wouldn't have specified that Dante's power had greatly increased, nor why Dante hadn't noticed it either.

What is first one?
Nero had managed to cut Urizen, whereas Dante had never succeeded before.

Spanish subs (which are funnily enough much more accurate) then put on the auto japanese subs and translate them.

It's obviously not 100% accurate but its better than the english dub/subs
And what exactly does it say?
 
Or it's just an outlier, because I don't see why the author wouldn't have specified that Dante's power had greatly increased, nor why Dante hadn't noticed it either.
Ok, then where would you scale Alt Trish compared to everyone else in scaling chain considering the case that her feat is outlier?
 
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Ok, then where would you scale Alt Trish compared to everyone else in scaling chain considering the case that her feat is outlier?
If it's not an outlier, that would mean that in the scaling chain, Alternate Trish would be superior to the Demon Kings (oddly enough), but if it is an outlier, then at least the same level or higher than Main Trish, I suppose.
 
If it's not an outlier, that would mean that in the scaling chain, Alternate Trish would be superior to the Demon Kings (oddly enough), but if it is an outlier, then at least the same level or higher than Main Trish, I suppose.
Vol 02 make it clear Dante isn't even going all out againts her, but do admit that Trish is far stronger than original one, considering she using Alastor who gave her massive power boost. As you can see the moment he killed her, Dante goes silence for a while until Beryl asked him. So yeah she probably at best is generals level, maybe comparable to Nelo Angelo with helmet.

And she even got death hax with Alastor and pretty much her and Alastor abilities.
 
Vol 02 make it clear Dante isn't even going all out againts her,
I don't know what the raws say, but in the English translation it's explicit that Dante genuinely has a hard time with her:

The battle was epic enough to be described in language Trish would normally use. She would probably say the ground shook beneath their feet. Their blades clashed with peals of thunder and hurricane gales. She might even describe their massive swords in pornographic detail. Trish wielded a sword called Alastor that was imbued with supernatural powers. Dante knew this because he had once used the weapon himself. It augmented its owner's strength, enabling Trish to cleave great arcs in the air faster and with more fury than Dante himself was capable of.

As you can see the moment he killed her, Dante goes silence for a while until Beryl asked him.
Which doesn't mean that Dante was holding back.
 
Alternate Trish would be superior to the Demon Kings (oddly enough), but if it is an outlier, then at least the same level or higher than Main Trish, I suppose.
Don't forget that she is being amped by a stronger Mundus too. Also, why did you assume that she would be stronger than DKs.

DK's are probably stronger and Dante may not even be DK level (Abigail is barely DK level)during his fight with Trish.

Maybe amped Trish with Alastor is Abigail level.
 
Volume 2 Dante is already superior to Demon King-level characters like Abigail.
I should have specified all DK, but yeah Dante can one shot Abigail in DT, while has a tough time with Alt Trish in Vol 2 in base, so Alt Trish should be close enough to be Abigail level if we don't consider it an outlier.
 
And what exactly does it say?
idk something about Abigail actually fighting a demon king (and probably obviously losing) but you kept arguing >:v

"I'll show you the power of Abigail, who fought the Demon King!"

I said in my post that "the problem is, what demon king did abigail fought?" but thinking about it... it had to be either Mundus or Argosax and seeing as Abigail survived it most likely was Argosax as he, funnily enough, seemed the most merciful between the last 2 demon kings.

Mundus would have either killed him or forced him into servitude while Plutone would have forced him to yield and serve, only Argosax doesn't really give a flying **** whatever the other demons do apparently.

There are also statements of the legend of Abigail, having power rivalling even the demon king (most likely steaming from such fight).

The profile currently claims Abigail is on par with Mundus, I personally don't care given all the things I said above but if anything I would change it to Argosax and instead of equals it should be "comparable but weaker than X"


My headcanon is this. A long time after Sparda's betrayal and the new separation of the worlds Abigail was born. With great power beyond most demons and hubris without equal he challenged Argosax, lost and was left to wander the demon world, after that at some point during the renaissance and the reintroduction of Alchemy to europe, Allan took interest and used his knowledge to summon demons eventually coming across Abigail, seeing the immense power he couldn't control he sealed it with the whole ass ritual.

Abigail had to be sealed before Argosax was sealed, otherwise he would have taken control over the demon world in the absence of the big dogs.
 
I said in my post that "the problem is, what demon king did abigail fought?" but thinking about it... it had to be either Mundus or Argosax and seeing as Abigail survived it most likely was Argosax as he, funnily enough, seemed the most merciful between the last 2 demon kin
I second this headcanon, dude didn't even want to merge human realm until his worshippers summoned him. Argosax probably saint compared to Mundus who known to be ruthless
 
I second this headcanon, dude didn't even want to merge human realm until his worshippers summoned him. Argosax probably saint compared to Mundus who known to be ruthless
Not to mention the whole merging he does is passive, dude just did it by being brought to the human realm. Imagine that, big dog chilling in his house and some dudes basically kidnapped him which caused a ton of problems.

It never stops being so funny how Argosax is formally known as the most evil demon god and yet is so chill.
 
I should have specified all DK
All Demon Kings should be comparable in power (not necessarily equal, but at least close to each other).

idk something about Abigail actually fighting a demon king (and probably obviously losing) but you kept arguing >:v

"I'll show you the power of Abigail, who fought the Demon King!"

I said in my post that "the problem is, what demon king did abigail fought?" but thinking about it... it had to be either Mundus or Argosax and seeing as Abigail survived it most likely was Argosax as he, funnily enough, seemed the most merciful between the last 2 demon kings.

Mundus would have either killed him or forced him into servitude while Plutone would have forced him to yield and serve, only Argosax doesn't really give a flying **** whatever the other demons do apparently.

There are also statements of the legend of Abigail, having power rivalling even the demon king (most likely steaming from such fight).

The profile currently claims Abigail is on par with Mundus, I personally don't care given all the things I said above but if anything I would change it to Argosax and instead of equals it should be "comparable but weaker than X"


My headcanon is this. A long time after Sparda's betrayal and the new separation of the worlds Abigail was born. With great power beyond most demons and hubris without equal he challenged Argosax, lost and was left to wander the demon world, after that at some point during the renaissance and the reintroduction of Alchemy to europe, Allan took interest and used his knowledge to summon demons eventually coming across Abigail, seeing the immense power he couldn't control he sealed it with the whole ass ritual.

Abigail had to be sealed before Argosax was sealed, otherwise he would have taken control over the demon world in the absence of the big dogs.
That's a good point, but it's also quite possible that Abigail managed to escape before Mundus or Pluto finished him off (but it's more likely to be Mundus or Argosax because Pluto is nearly unknown in the fanbase and there's very little chance that Madhouse was referring to him).
 
looks amazing

I didn't care about Dante farming another W but if its going to be animated like that then **** it, I'm hyped
idk if dante gonna score one still betting on him could be much closer thna given but def hope the fight be long like his previous
 
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