Dio fights a Demon

[Tots_Real]

Dio Brando (JORGE JOESTAR) Vs Gowther (Demon)

Gowther has a day of prep and has full use of Doll Gowther

Speed Equalized

Fight takes place in britiania

 

[Chariot190]

Am I missing something? This seems super unfair, Dio even has the AP advantage, regen advantage, and over an hour of time stop and a bunch of misc abilities that his opponent doesn't resist like soul manip, precognition, plot manip, biological manip, etc.

Day of prep or not, Dio's Beyond is always in motion, some bullshit coincidence would likely save him from the advantages of prep and time stop is a free win card.

 

[Tots_Real]

Gowther's comandment Selflessness. How can Dio use his beyond if he no longer knowns what that is.

 

[Planck69]

I don't think he needs his Beyond to kick Gowther's teeth in, considering that he has the highest AP in his tier, Mid-High regen and resistance to soul-hax. Hell, one sneeze will annahilate Gowther.

Yet another stomp.

 

[Tots_Real]

Gowther's gimik is mind haxs which dio doesn't have resistance to

 

[Chariot190]

> mind haxs which dio doesn't have resistance to

I mean, Dio has mindhax too (of both varieties), plus like ten other powers that instant win. And given Beyond is passive as long as Dio's believing in it, and Dio starts off believing in it as that's kinda his standard state of mind. That could domino into Gowther's hax not working or not activating or something through sheer luck or miracle. Is Gowther's hax automatic and passive?

 

[Planck69]

> mind haxs which dio doesn't have resistance to
I mean, Dio has mindhax too (of both varieties), plus like ten other powers that instant win. And given Beyond is passive as long as Dio's believing in it, and Dio starts off believing in it as that's kinda his standard state of mind. That could domino into Gowther's hax not working or not activating or something through sheer luck or miracle. Is Gowther's hax automatic and passive?

NO NO NO NO!

 

[Chariot190]

Then yeah, Dio stomps, if it was passive there may have been a debate.

 

[Tots_Real]

Really Selflessness isn't a passive, oh ok I though it was since like every other comandment is.

 

[Chariot190]

Don't know, I only got to S3.

 

[Planck69]

Really Selflessness isn't a passive, oh ok I though it was since like every other comandment is.

The commandments are all constantly active but most of them need certain conditions to be met for them to utilize their effects. That and Selflessness was never shown to instantly erase the memories of anyone who came in contact with Gowther.

Maybe if he used memory-hax like Mogami (who can make a person forget they have supernatural abilities and even how to use them) there could be a debate.

 

[Tots_Real]

To quote Gowther (Demon) page:

Selflessness: Gowther's commandment causes those with feelings of greed, desire, or selfishness to lose their memories, emotions, and sense of self.

These are words that discribe Dio quite well so I think the comanment would activate. Also even if it doesn't automatically mind wipe him gowther could always just stall.

 

[Chariot190]

>. Also even if it doesn't automatically mind wipe him gowther could always just stall.

How? Dio has time stop and precognition, Dio would want to add Gowther to those he can see as soon as possible and even then, he can still see his own future, which is a workaround of the passion's weakness, he could see himself getting mindwiped and go lol no **** that. (Assuming it'd work, he did gain some of Kars' resistances just to a lesser degree, Dio by all accounts probably gain a small resistance to mindhax even if it's not as good as Kars). And Beyond's a thing, it could make it so Gowthr never actually uses it due to a convulted domino effect, or PIS.

 

[Tots_Real]

Mind Manipulation doing something similar to what doll gowther did to Galand making Dio think the passion is saying he's fine even if it isn't. Also can plot manipulation effect the outcome of a battle before it begins, wouldn't he need prep technically. Also that if we take that Selflessness isn't instant which it most certiantly is like all other comandments.

 

[Planck69]

Mind Manipulation doing something similar to what doll gowther did to Galand making Dio think the passion is saying he's fine even if it isn't. Also can plot manipulation effect the outcome of a battle before it begins, wouldn't he need prep technically. Also that if we take that Selflessness isn't instant which it most certiantly is like all other comandments.

He wouldn't even see the Passion anyway, how would he mind-hax it. Hell, his Commandment probably wouldn't register it either. Not to mention how Gowther would have no idea that he's up against a guy who makes the Commandments look like infants in raw strength and can stop time with a thought.

In this case, yes it can. If he starts with himself beleiving in the Beyond, which seems to be his default mindset, then it's already active.

Other commandments also need to be triggered by certain conditions. Even then, the commandment doesn't 100% mind-wipe immediately to my knowledge so Dio would still just go ZA WARUDO and splatter him.

 

[Tots_Real]

But the effects of a comandment would continue into time stop.

 

[Chariot190]

Not unless it's been shown to do exactly that. Given, time is stopped. That would require time stop resistance.

 

[Tots_Real]

Every other comanments are continies once you activate it, why would Gowthers be different.

 

[Chariot190]

Because time is stopped? Everything stops when time is stopped, the ability wouldn't continue till time resumed?

 

[Tots_Real]

but he's effected by the ability, why would a status effect that is curently taken place stop in stopped time, he's still being effected by the comanment.

 

[Chariot190]

Except Planck said it's 1. Not instantaneous. 2. Is apparently manual.

If it's not instant and takes a bit of time to fully get going then it's not going to progress any further till time resumes. And if it's manual that's even worse.

 

[Tots_Real]

It's not manual but it's also not automatic. Commandments take effect after certiant conditions are met if you lie to Galand, if you run away from Zeldris you become his slave, not having faith near Melascula makes your eyes burst, hating Estarossa cause you to loose all of one's strieght and hurting Grayroad ages you to death. The comandments also don't have any controle over their comandments either, that's why Galand a statue cause he broke a promise in term lying. You can't really stop a comandment once it begins, you can be resistant to it or revert it but you can't stop once it's activated.

Also the reason that we're really talking about it and only discribing it is because I don't believe we ever get to see it since Gowther dies 3000 years prior to the events of the show in an attampt to end the holy war. But we do know what the trigger for the effect of the comandment are which is when poeple have feelings of greed, desire, or selfishness get mind wiped.

 

[Chariot190]

So we're using an ability we know nothing about much like GER's will power manip?

Also point still stands, if it's not instant, the effect will halt till time resumes, it's not gonna continue progressing if time is stopped, not unless it resists time stop.

 

[Tots_Real]

but why would it stop if time was stopped, that'd be like if Dio got poision and then stopped time, he'd still be poisioned. His time is still moving so any static effects would still continue

 

[Chariot190]

If Dio was poisoned and he stopped time the spreading of the poison would cease. Also bad example when we have an example of time stop halting the spreading of a poison in canon. If Dio got hit by Purple Haze and stopped time, the purple haze virus wouldn't increase and spread through him till time resumed.

His time is still moving, to bad the abilities he's effected by aren't. If the effect wasn't instant, he'd be effected, but if it isn't instant or it takes time to fully complete? The progress from initial effected to fully effected is and will be halted.

 

[Planck69]

but why would it stop if time was stopped, that'd be like if Dio got poision and then stopped time, he'd still be poisioned. His time is still moving so any static effects would still continue

Are you seriously trying to argue that an ability that has never been shown to work in time stop would work...just cause?

 

[Tots_Real]

No I'm just argueing that status effects would still take effect in stop time, I mean wasn't Jotaro still effect by Bug-Eaten while in timestop

 

[Chariot190]

Bad example when Jotaro literally stopped time to prevent the poison from effecting and spreading through Josuke, proving that yeah, things like poison don't spread or act while time is stopped.

Jotaro was only effected because said effect already happened, and said effect took place before and after time stop.

If Jotaro stopped time, he could ******* grab the bullets in his hand and touch them, and the poison wouldnt take effect till time resumed.

 

[Tots_Real]

oh ok

 

[Tots_Real]

wait why would he stop time for an opponent that's physicall infirior to him, wouldn't he just try and rush him.

 

[Planck69]

wait why would he stop time for an opponent that's physicall infirior to him, wouldn't he just try and rush him.

Because he does it regardless of power? He doesn't even know that Gowther is that much weaker than him anyway.

 

[Chariot190]

i mean, he stopped time against ******* Diavolo just to flex on him. Did it just to show his massive surperiority and not to talk back because he's nothing, Dio then proceeded to throw him on the ground, step on his head and slowly crack his skull a bit to torture him while laughing his ass off, before letting him go because he kinda needed Diavolo for his plan. The only time Dio didn't use time stop was against because, because if Kars managed to find out he had time stop or if Kars understood it, he'd be super ******, Dio had to actively pretend he didn't have a Stand ability. Which ultimately failed and Dio got super ****** when Kars got The World+1.