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So I got into the DMC series kind of recently and something seemed off about Nero's profile. Specifically some of his tiers seemed wrong.
DMC 4
In the current DMC 4 scaling for Nero's Pre DT state, Nero is rated above Echidna who he doesn't fight until after he awakens his DT. He still fights Berial who has a 1.1 Kiloton feat, which is Low 7-C, and Bael who creates a Blizzard. So Nero should probably be downgraded to ... Low 7-B I think is the value for storm/blizzard creation. Or an alternate justification for his tier needs to be given.
DMC 5
Now for the juicy upgrade. So there are multiple reasons throughout the game for Nero to get upgraded from his current rating. The starting reasons is Nero being flat out superior to V. V states this at the beginning of the game, and to further support it Nero took down two different opponents V or Griffon say they can not defeat.
Gilgamesh
To start there is Gilgamesh. V both claim that Gilgamesh is too much for them and V proceeds to run away from the demon.
Nero proceeds to beat the very same demon.
Malphas
V also doesn't want to fight Malphas
This is further clarified in the Visions of V manga that has Griffon state Malphas is a bit too much for them to handle. Sorry I can't find this atm, but if I do I'll edit it in.
Some support is that Malphas takes and seals all of V's familiars during Mission 14.
Furthermore, Malphas claims to be the greatest sorcerer in all of hell.
Nero then goes on to fight and kill Malphas. He even (unknowingly) saves a cowering V from Malphas.
Statement
Nero's whole involvement in the story is because V felt Urizen's power and realized they would lose. He then goes to get more power in the form of Nero.
Why does this matter?
All of this is proof that Nero is above V. Now V himself isn't really that strong, he only ever gets the killing blow against his enemies and can't really do damage. V is weak in both the lore and gameplay sense. V's strength comes from his summons; Griffon, Shadow, and Nightmare. The big one here is the last one, Nightmare. V feels that he can't beat Gilgamesh, Malphas, or Urizen. This includes with the power of Nightmare and instead opts to let Nero fight and beat Gilgamesh and Malphas. Nightmare is High 3-A, possibly low 2-C. I'm proposing that Nero should scale above Nightmare by virtue of taking down enemies that V doesn't think he himself is capable of taking on.
But wait, there's more!
Now why stop at just scaling above Nightmare when there's a better feat that Nero has? Nero is the first character to break Urizen's barrier and proceeds to make him bleed. This is especially notable because not only does Dante himself fail to break the barrier. Dante fails to break the barrier using Devil Trigger and the Sword of Sparda, his most powerful Devil Arm.
DT Dante with Rebellion failing to break the barrier
DT Dante with Sparda failing to break the barrier
So with this, Nero pre-DT in DMC V should scale above beginning of DMC V DT Dante. DMC V Nero should be 2-C via scaling above beginning of DMC V Dante.
Conclusions
DMC 4 Nero should have his Pre DT key's justification changed or his tier needs to be changed. He's likely going to downgrade to Berial's Low 7-C or one of the generic storm calcs.
DMC V Pre DT Nero should be scaled above Beginning of DMC V Dante to 2-C. Nero being above V, and by extension Nightmare, should be included as support for why he scales.
Bonus: This upgrades Malphas and Gilgamesh (no profile) to High 3-A, Possibly Low 2-C.
Counter Argument
Nero breaking the barrier is PIS/Outlier
This is why I provided evidence of him being above Nightmare as well. Nero is far above Nightmare to the point that he easily takes on opponents that V fears.
V is weakened and doesn't like using Nightmare
Gilgamesh is still at V's "prime" and V still runs away. Malphas is a life or death situation and despite being found V is terrified. V still considers beginning of game Nero above him and requests his assistance against Urizen. This is V days after being "born" and essentially full on demonic energy. Basically there's no reason not to include Nightmare among these summons when saying Nero >> V.
Agree (with all):
Agree (with DMC 4):
Disagree:
Neutral:
DMC 4
In the current DMC 4 scaling for Nero's Pre DT state, Nero is rated above Echidna who he doesn't fight until after he awakens his DT. He still fights Berial who has a 1.1 Kiloton feat, which is Low 7-C, and Bael who creates a Blizzard. So Nero should probably be downgraded to ... Low 7-B I think is the value for storm/blizzard creation. Or an alternate justification for his tier needs to be given.
DMC 5
Now for the juicy upgrade. So there are multiple reasons throughout the game for Nero to get upgraded from his current rating. The starting reasons is Nero being flat out superior to V. V states this at the beginning of the game, and to further support it Nero took down two different opponents V or Griffon say they can not defeat.
Gilgamesh
To start there is Gilgamesh. V both claim that Gilgamesh is too much for them and V proceeds to run away from the demon.
Nero proceeds to beat the very same demon.
Malphas
V also doesn't want to fight Malphas
This is further clarified in the Visions of V manga that has Griffon state Malphas is a bit too much for them to handle. Sorry I can't find this atm, but if I do I'll edit it in.
Some support is that Malphas takes and seals all of V's familiars during Mission 14.
Furthermore, Malphas claims to be the greatest sorcerer in all of hell.
Nero then goes on to fight and kill Malphas. He even (unknowingly) saves a cowering V from Malphas.
Statement
Nero's whole involvement in the story is because V felt Urizen's power and realized they would lose. He then goes to get more power in the form of Nero.
Why does this matter?
All of this is proof that Nero is above V. Now V himself isn't really that strong, he only ever gets the killing blow against his enemies and can't really do damage. V is weak in both the lore and gameplay sense. V's strength comes from his summons; Griffon, Shadow, and Nightmare. The big one here is the last one, Nightmare. V feels that he can't beat Gilgamesh, Malphas, or Urizen. This includes with the power of Nightmare and instead opts to let Nero fight and beat Gilgamesh and Malphas. Nightmare is High 3-A, possibly low 2-C. I'm proposing that Nero should scale above Nightmare by virtue of taking down enemies that V doesn't think he himself is capable of taking on.
But wait, there's more!
Now why stop at just scaling above Nightmare when there's a better feat that Nero has? Nero is the first character to break Urizen's barrier and proceeds to make him bleed. This is especially notable because not only does Dante himself fail to break the barrier. Dante fails to break the barrier using Devil Trigger and the Sword of Sparda, his most powerful Devil Arm.
DT Dante with Rebellion failing to break the barrier
DT Dante with Sparda failing to break the barrier
DEVIL MAY CRY 5 (2019) Gameplay Walkthrough - Mission 11 (No Commentary)
A couple extra combos and I actually am getting better with him haha!Cheers#DevilMayCry5 #DMC5 #walkthrough #DMC #devilmaycry #gameplayFeel free to message m...
youtu.be
So with this, Nero pre-DT in DMC V should scale above beginning of DMC V DT Dante. DMC V Nero should be 2-C via scaling above beginning of DMC V Dante.
Conclusions
DMC 4 Nero should have his Pre DT key's justification changed or his tier needs to be changed. He's likely going to downgrade to Berial's Low 7-C or one of the generic storm calcs.
DMC V Pre DT Nero should be scaled above Beginning of DMC V Dante to 2-C. Nero being above V, and by extension Nightmare, should be included as support for why he scales.
Bonus: This upgrades Malphas and Gilgamesh (no profile) to High 3-A, Possibly Low 2-C.
Counter Argument
Nero breaking the barrier is PIS/Outlier
This is why I provided evidence of him being above Nightmare as well. Nero is far above Nightmare to the point that he easily takes on opponents that V fears.
V is weakened and doesn't like using Nightmare
Gilgamesh is still at V's "prime" and V still runs away. Malphas is a life or death situation and despite being found V is terrified. V still considers beginning of game Nero above him and requests his assistance against Urizen. This is V days after being "born" and essentially full on demonic energy. Basically there's no reason not to include Nightmare among these summons when saying Nero >> V.
Agree (with all):
Agree (with DMC 4):
Disagree:
Neutral: