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So going through more of the pages on the DBH verse, I'm noticing some more questionable stuff being applied to the pages, whether it's the lack of explanation, or just stretching scans to argue for an ability when there's little to no statements to prove that ability's a thing.
Dark Ki: (DONE)
Life Manipulation: Why is this being argued as life manipulation as opposed to resurrection? Using ki to revive someone like Broly is just textbook definition of resurrection. ACCEPTED
Law and Physics hax: So I noticed the thread used to add these two abilities seem to skip some important context. First off the new universe was made through a combination of time power and dark demon realm, not dark ki on its own. The second argument being the demon world has more magic influence than science, this was discussed in depth but to be short, nothing about magic having more influence than science remotely means they warp the physics and law of the demon world, especially when the world already existed prior to the demon being banished there. By this logic every Harry Potter character has physics and law hax because the wizarding world has more magic influence than science. (Time power and Dark Demon Realm power combined gets this)
Resistance to Sealing and BFR: So assuming this is the scatter attack, can I ask how exactly they resist being sealed and BFR'd away when it's done via opening a portal and kicking them in? Because arguing they resist the effects of dark ki when the context for this dark ki ability is just opening a door and kicking them in isn't the same as the mind hax/corruption stuff the dark ki's always been known for. ACCEPTED
Chaos Manipulation: Ok, what part of "disastrous force" and mechikabura's energy messing with the planet somehow means they literally control chaos itself? By this logic literally every single dragon ball character who can destroy a planet has chaos manipulation because they're a disastrous force that can threaten the world. Unless we're treating this as the same as nuking or affecting timelines somehow equates to causality and fate hax which is just stupid in of itself. ACCEPTED
Evil Ki: (DONE)
Paralysis Inducement: The scan mostly shows the evil aura binding the person like a rope, not inflicting paralysis. ACCEPTED
Demon Physiology: (DONE)
Acausality Type 1 and 4: Not exactly a full debunk but moreso a question, why is this labeled a "higher degree" when nothing in the scans really indicate that they have higher degrees of type 1 and 4 acausality? Just normal type 1 and 4 evidence. ACCEPTED
Incorporeality: This isn't incorporeal, being incorporeal implies that they naturally lack a physical body to begin with, this is just them being dead. ACCEPTED
Low godly regen: Soooo where's the part that explains them regenerating? Because Mechi absorbing them doesn't really imply their entire physical form got erased, nor does the aftermath of them being fine really explain how they're back beyond the fact that they're back. Hell one of the scans Towa's body is still intact even when she's dead. So where exactly is the regen? Because if this is all there is then low godly should be nuked. TYPE 4 IMMORTALITY AT BEST
Keysword: (DONE)
Paralysis Inducement: So using the chains to hold them down, which the scans btw are just visual showings means they have paralysis inducement? What about this remotely implies they inflict paralysis as opposed to the fact that the chains themselves are just holding them in place? Nothing about it remotely mentions they lose the ability to move. ACCEPTED
Weapon Creation and Duplication: Which one is it? Either it makes numerous weapons or it duplicates itself, you can't have both. DUPLICATION STAYS
Enhanced Power Null and Purification: Why is the same scan being used for both Dormant and Awakened key? Especially when we have scans in the Dormant tabber that shows it working on Mechi, so why is this being argued as better power null and purification? ACCEPTED
Incorporeal and Intangibility: Same as the demon physiology one, if there's nothing to imply the keysword lacked a physical form in the first place why would it have incorporeal in the first place? Also is there like anything that implies it turned into energy beyond the visuals because it glowing doesn't really tell me anything. INTANGIBILITY STAYS
Empowerment: This ability is for characters who get boosts based on what they're aligned for, the keysword being effective against demonic powers doesn't really mean empowerment unless lex luthor using kryptonite somehow means he's empowered. ACCEPTED
Ki/Energy/Life Absorption: Ignoring how the scan is only in japanese with no translation of what it says, the game itself implies they just lose stamina by just fighting and taking damage, not that they have it absorbed from them. Unless there's some explicit statements that the keysword can absorb all 3 of these things I don't see why this should be on the page. ACCEPTED
Holy Manipulation: None of the scans remotely mentions its holy in nature, just that it can fight off the demonic powers. ACCEPTED
Resistance to Holy and Light: Why would this grant resistance to both of these abilities? There's no statements that it's able to resist its light powers, plus no mention of holy powers whatsoever. ACCEPTED
Resistance to all Demonic Abilities: So why is this in the Dormant Key tabber when the scan being shown literally has the awakened keysword in display? Doesn't look right to me. ACCEPTED
Resisting Status effects and Devilmite beam: So ignoring how this is a literal sword so unless you can actually target weapons with status effects or there's proof that the keysword lets people not be affected by this, why the hell does it resist the Devilmite beam when it literally has no malice due to being an inanimate object? Plus the scans do not show anything that implies the characters can resist it, just that it's in the game and can take out anyone that's hit by it. So unless the keysword itself is stated to repel the effects of the devilmite beam or anything that implies resistance, this should go. This also applies to everyone else in the verse that resists the devilmite beam for the same reason. ACCEPTED
Chaos Ball: (DONE)
Causality, Fate, Text, Chaos, Darkness, Quantum, Space and Time hax: Ok this is a big one, so nothing in the pages that have this particular move remotely implies that it consuming the multiverse means that it has all of these abilities. Chaos hax, assuming that it's from the same reason as dark ki, is stupid beyond relief, as it's the same level of logic as affecting space and time means you affect causality and fate itself, same applies to Causality and Fate hax as nothing about the black hole implies this is happening. Darkness doesn't really say much here, just that it's leaving people in the darkness, especially with people resisting it as nothing implies the darkness does anything to them. Space and Time manipulation for absorbing and destroying the multiverse idk why the hell this is classified as space-time hax, as this is just an AP feat for the black hole destroying everything, not them controlling or warping space and time. Text manipulation is completely unjustified as nothing about the black hole is remotely implied to warp the time scrolls. By this logic everyone that can blow up a planet has plant, earth, magma, life, etc. manipulation for blowing it up. Nothing about this makes any sense. Lastly the Quantum hax, from what I can gather, this is only here because it's a black hole... despite the fact we've never done that for anyone who can make a black hole on this site. So this should be nuked unless there actually exists some evidence that quantum particles are being manipulated. ACCEPTED
Chronoa: (DONE)
Power Nullification: Scan literally just mentions purification, not power nulling dark ki. The rest just mentions nullifying stat amping or stat reducing techniques from her foes so this should be a limited Power Null as it's with specific techniques. ACCEPTED
Everyone: (DONE)
Energy/Life/Ki absorption: Where's the scans to suggest they can do this? Because I don't recall them being able to use this willy nilly. ACCEPTED
Space-Time Manipulation via powering up to SSJ4: So why is this labeled as space time manipulation as Goku literally says he doesn't know what impact it will have on time, plus this is heavily implied to be more of an AP feat rather than messing with space and time by warping it. ACCEPTED
Time Patrol: (DONE)
Resistance to Heat, Ice, Fire, Air, Earth, and Electricity attacks: Why is them tanking elemental attacks from the Dragons from GT labeled as a resistance? Nothing about these moves are remotely implied to be lethal on contact unless in Dragon Ball, getting hit by these means you die instantly, which I'd like to see scans of, but this is ridiculous. HEAT ICE AND ELECTRICITY CAN STAY
Vegetas and Gokus: (DONE)
Resistance to Soul Manipulation: The only argument for the resistance is for tanking shroom's attacks, and looking at the scan shows the exact opposite, they got their souls reaped a bit and they were affected. So this should be removed. IT CAN SCALE TO SSJ4 VIA GOHAN
Towa: (DONE)
Paralysis: The scans are a bit too vague, plus the one with goku makes it implied the attack just knocks them out as opposed to paralysis so some clarifications on this would be nice. ELECTRICITY MANIPULATION INSTEAD
Fu: (DONE)
Paralysis Inducement: Yeah not seeing paralysis here, same with the evil ki scan, it just looks like he's making an energy whip to hold them down, not literally having them freeze on the spot. ACCEPTED
Chamel: (DONE)
Reactive Evolution: This isn't reactive evolution, getting more power in response to getting hurt sounds like accelerated development as opposed to RE. ACCEPTED
Super and Dark Shenron: (DONE)
Advanced Dark Ki: What part of this implies advanced level dark ki? The description only gives basic level dark ki at best. ACCEPTED
Probability hax: Any scans for this? Because it doesn't really elaborate on anything, plus this could just be another CI thing where it's game mechanics or just an AOE move, which doesn't mean he warps probability to always hit ala Gurren Lagann. ACCEPTED
Purification: Nullifying abilities isn't purification, that's just power nulling. ACCEPTED
Paralysis Inducement: Again, same as the keysword, this isn't literal inflicting paralysis on others, this is just holding them in place by using chains. ACCEPTED
Law Manipulation: So where's the statement that Shenron can rewrite laws with his wishes? Last time I checked I don't recall that being stated for Shenron in Fusion Reborn, just that he was incapable of doing anything about Janemba's shenanigans. POSSIBLY LAW HAX IS FINE
Lagss: (DONE)
Petrification: Turning someone into glass isn't petrifying, petrification is turning someone into stone, that's the whole point of petrification. This is just transmutation. ACCEPTED
Macro-Quantum Manipulation: Why are we assuming manipulating particles automatically means macro quantum particles when particles can also mean specks or grains? At best this is just normal Matter manipulation, not Macro-Quantum unless Quarks are being manipulated by her powers. ACCEPTED
Kamioren: (DONE)
Energy Manipulation and Matter manipulation: This sounds like shapeshifting if he's turning himself into energy. ACCEPTED
Negating Zamasu's regen and immortality: This applies to everyone in the Core Army but this doesn't line up. We have Lagss negging Zamasu's regen and immortality from this scene, but with everyone that has universe tree powers, they have it for negging Zamasu, despite him being negged by Lagss? Which one happened first because whichever one happened first shouldn't have regen and immortality negation if he's completely fine for the next "death". LAGSS' NEGATION LEAVES
Hearts: (DONE)
Madness/Empathic/Morality hax: Is there any elaboration on this? Because I don't see madness hax or morality hax from releasing people's desires. Empathic I can see but the others I don't. ACCEPTED
Type 5 Immortality: Yeah none of the scans remotely imply that they're unbound by conventional life and death, especially when we have Frieza say that they're already dead and erasing their souls means they stay dead. This is at best Type 7 immortality. ACCEPTED
Resistance to Disease and Death hax: Nothing is said in the two scans that they're immune to viruses, nor does it say that death spells don't work on them. Just that they're dead, which again is just type 7 immortality. ACCEPTED
Zamasu: (DONE)
High Godly regeneration and Abstract Existence: Thanks to the recent revisions these needs to be changed to suit the DBS canon since it's stemmed from the same arguments, plus the fact he's not a concept, but his own thoughts manifested just makes his regen mid godly at best. HIGH GODLY STAYS BUT ON A HISTORICAL LEVEL ERASURE
Bardock: (DONE)
Acausality: Being a singularity would give him type 2 acausality, not type 1 or 4. ACCEPTED
AGREE: 11 (Fujiwara, Tarang, Delta, Planck, Maverick, Emirp, MGQScaler, StrymULTRA, Shanks, Larssx, AKUTO)
DISAGREE: 1 (godofice [physics and law hax])
NEUTRAL:
Dark Ki: (DONE)
Life Manipulation: Why is this being argued as life manipulation as opposed to resurrection? Using ki to revive someone like Broly is just textbook definition of resurrection. ACCEPTED
Law and Physics hax: So I noticed the thread used to add these two abilities seem to skip some important context. First off the new universe was made through a combination of time power and dark demon realm, not dark ki on its own. The second argument being the demon world has more magic influence than science, this was discussed in depth but to be short, nothing about magic having more influence than science remotely means they warp the physics and law of the demon world, especially when the world already existed prior to the demon being banished there. By this logic every Harry Potter character has physics and law hax because the wizarding world has more magic influence than science. (Time power and Dark Demon Realm power combined gets this)
Resistance to Sealing and BFR: So assuming this is the scatter attack, can I ask how exactly they resist being sealed and BFR'd away when it's done via opening a portal and kicking them in? Because arguing they resist the effects of dark ki when the context for this dark ki ability is just opening a door and kicking them in isn't the same as the mind hax/corruption stuff the dark ki's always been known for. ACCEPTED
Chaos Manipulation: Ok, what part of "disastrous force" and mechikabura's energy messing with the planet somehow means they literally control chaos itself? By this logic literally every single dragon ball character who can destroy a planet has chaos manipulation because they're a disastrous force that can threaten the world. Unless we're treating this as the same as nuking or affecting timelines somehow equates to causality and fate hax which is just stupid in of itself. ACCEPTED
Evil Ki: (DONE)
Paralysis Inducement: The scan mostly shows the evil aura binding the person like a rope, not inflicting paralysis. ACCEPTED
Demon Physiology: (DONE)
Acausality Type 1 and 4: Not exactly a full debunk but moreso a question, why is this labeled a "higher degree" when nothing in the scans really indicate that they have higher degrees of type 1 and 4 acausality? Just normal type 1 and 4 evidence. ACCEPTED
Incorporeality: This isn't incorporeal, being incorporeal implies that they naturally lack a physical body to begin with, this is just them being dead. ACCEPTED
Low godly regen: Soooo where's the part that explains them regenerating? Because Mechi absorbing them doesn't really imply their entire physical form got erased, nor does the aftermath of them being fine really explain how they're back beyond the fact that they're back. Hell one of the scans Towa's body is still intact even when she's dead. So where exactly is the regen? Because if this is all there is then low godly should be nuked. TYPE 4 IMMORTALITY AT BEST
Keysword: (DONE)
Paralysis Inducement: So using the chains to hold them down, which the scans btw are just visual showings means they have paralysis inducement? What about this remotely implies they inflict paralysis as opposed to the fact that the chains themselves are just holding them in place? Nothing about it remotely mentions they lose the ability to move. ACCEPTED
Weapon Creation and Duplication: Which one is it? Either it makes numerous weapons or it duplicates itself, you can't have both. DUPLICATION STAYS
Enhanced Power Null and Purification: Why is the same scan being used for both Dormant and Awakened key? Especially when we have scans in the Dormant tabber that shows it working on Mechi, so why is this being argued as better power null and purification? ACCEPTED
Incorporeal and Intangibility: Same as the demon physiology one, if there's nothing to imply the keysword lacked a physical form in the first place why would it have incorporeal in the first place? Also is there like anything that implies it turned into energy beyond the visuals because it glowing doesn't really tell me anything. INTANGIBILITY STAYS
Empowerment: This ability is for characters who get boosts based on what they're aligned for, the keysword being effective against demonic powers doesn't really mean empowerment unless lex luthor using kryptonite somehow means he's empowered. ACCEPTED
Ki/Energy/Life Absorption: Ignoring how the scan is only in japanese with no translation of what it says, the game itself implies they just lose stamina by just fighting and taking damage, not that they have it absorbed from them. Unless there's some explicit statements that the keysword can absorb all 3 of these things I don't see why this should be on the page. ACCEPTED
Holy Manipulation: None of the scans remotely mentions its holy in nature, just that it can fight off the demonic powers. ACCEPTED
Resistance to Holy and Light: Why would this grant resistance to both of these abilities? There's no statements that it's able to resist its light powers, plus no mention of holy powers whatsoever. ACCEPTED
Resistance to all Demonic Abilities: So why is this in the Dormant Key tabber when the scan being shown literally has the awakened keysword in display? Doesn't look right to me. ACCEPTED
Resisting Status effects and Devilmite beam: So ignoring how this is a literal sword so unless you can actually target weapons with status effects or there's proof that the keysword lets people not be affected by this, why the hell does it resist the Devilmite beam when it literally has no malice due to being an inanimate object? Plus the scans do not show anything that implies the characters can resist it, just that it's in the game and can take out anyone that's hit by it. So unless the keysword itself is stated to repel the effects of the devilmite beam or anything that implies resistance, this should go. This also applies to everyone else in the verse that resists the devilmite beam for the same reason. ACCEPTED
Chaos Ball: (DONE)
Causality, Fate, Text, Chaos, Darkness, Quantum, Space and Time hax: Ok this is a big one, so nothing in the pages that have this particular move remotely implies that it consuming the multiverse means that it has all of these abilities. Chaos hax, assuming that it's from the same reason as dark ki, is stupid beyond relief, as it's the same level of logic as affecting space and time means you affect causality and fate itself, same applies to Causality and Fate hax as nothing about the black hole implies this is happening. Darkness doesn't really say much here, just that it's leaving people in the darkness, especially with people resisting it as nothing implies the darkness does anything to them. Space and Time manipulation for absorbing and destroying the multiverse idk why the hell this is classified as space-time hax, as this is just an AP feat for the black hole destroying everything, not them controlling or warping space and time. Text manipulation is completely unjustified as nothing about the black hole is remotely implied to warp the time scrolls. By this logic everyone that can blow up a planet has plant, earth, magma, life, etc. manipulation for blowing it up. Nothing about this makes any sense. Lastly the Quantum hax, from what I can gather, this is only here because it's a black hole... despite the fact we've never done that for anyone who can make a black hole on this site. So this should be nuked unless there actually exists some evidence that quantum particles are being manipulated. ACCEPTED
Chronoa: (DONE)
Power Nullification: Scan literally just mentions purification, not power nulling dark ki. The rest just mentions nullifying stat amping or stat reducing techniques from her foes so this should be a limited Power Null as it's with specific techniques. ACCEPTED
Everyone: (DONE)
Energy/Life/Ki absorption: Where's the scans to suggest they can do this? Because I don't recall them being able to use this willy nilly. ACCEPTED
Space-Time Manipulation via powering up to SSJ4: So why is this labeled as space time manipulation as Goku literally says he doesn't know what impact it will have on time, plus this is heavily implied to be more of an AP feat rather than messing with space and time by warping it. ACCEPTED
Time Patrol: (DONE)
Resistance to Heat, Ice, Fire, Air, Earth, and Electricity attacks: Why is them tanking elemental attacks from the Dragons from GT labeled as a resistance? Nothing about these moves are remotely implied to be lethal on contact unless in Dragon Ball, getting hit by these means you die instantly, which I'd like to see scans of, but this is ridiculous. HEAT ICE AND ELECTRICITY CAN STAY
Vegetas and Gokus: (DONE)
Resistance to Soul Manipulation: The only argument for the resistance is for tanking shroom's attacks, and looking at the scan shows the exact opposite, they got their souls reaped a bit and they were affected. So this should be removed. IT CAN SCALE TO SSJ4 VIA GOHAN
Towa: (DONE)
Paralysis: The scans are a bit too vague, plus the one with goku makes it implied the attack just knocks them out as opposed to paralysis so some clarifications on this would be nice. ELECTRICITY MANIPULATION INSTEAD
Fu: (DONE)
Paralysis Inducement: Yeah not seeing paralysis here, same with the evil ki scan, it just looks like he's making an energy whip to hold them down, not literally having them freeze on the spot. ACCEPTED
Chamel: (DONE)
Reactive Evolution: This isn't reactive evolution, getting more power in response to getting hurt sounds like accelerated development as opposed to RE. ACCEPTED
Super and Dark Shenron: (DONE)
Advanced Dark Ki: What part of this implies advanced level dark ki? The description only gives basic level dark ki at best. ACCEPTED
Probability hax: Any scans for this? Because it doesn't really elaborate on anything, plus this could just be another CI thing where it's game mechanics or just an AOE move, which doesn't mean he warps probability to always hit ala Gurren Lagann. ACCEPTED
Purification: Nullifying abilities isn't purification, that's just power nulling. ACCEPTED
Paralysis Inducement: Again, same as the keysword, this isn't literal inflicting paralysis on others, this is just holding them in place by using chains. ACCEPTED
Law Manipulation: So where's the statement that Shenron can rewrite laws with his wishes? Last time I checked I don't recall that being stated for Shenron in Fusion Reborn, just that he was incapable of doing anything about Janemba's shenanigans. POSSIBLY LAW HAX IS FINE
Lagss: (DONE)
Petrification: Turning someone into glass isn't petrifying, petrification is turning someone into stone, that's the whole point of petrification. This is just transmutation. ACCEPTED
Macro-Quantum Manipulation: Why are we assuming manipulating particles automatically means macro quantum particles when particles can also mean specks or grains? At best this is just normal Matter manipulation, not Macro-Quantum unless Quarks are being manipulated by her powers. ACCEPTED
Kamioren: (DONE)
Energy Manipulation and Matter manipulation: This sounds like shapeshifting if he's turning himself into energy. ACCEPTED
Negating Zamasu's regen and immortality: This applies to everyone in the Core Army but this doesn't line up. We have Lagss negging Zamasu's regen and immortality from this scene, but with everyone that has universe tree powers, they have it for negging Zamasu, despite him being negged by Lagss? Which one happened first because whichever one happened first shouldn't have regen and immortality negation if he's completely fine for the next "death". LAGSS' NEGATION LEAVES
Hearts: (DONE)
Madness/Empathic/Morality hax: Is there any elaboration on this? Because I don't see madness hax or morality hax from releasing people's desires. Empathic I can see but the others I don't. ACCEPTED
Type 5 Immortality: Yeah none of the scans remotely imply that they're unbound by conventional life and death, especially when we have Frieza say that they're already dead and erasing their souls means they stay dead. This is at best Type 7 immortality. ACCEPTED
Resistance to Disease and Death hax: Nothing is said in the two scans that they're immune to viruses, nor does it say that death spells don't work on them. Just that they're dead, which again is just type 7 immortality. ACCEPTED
Zamasu: (DONE)
High Godly regeneration and Abstract Existence: Thanks to the recent revisions these needs to be changed to suit the DBS canon since it's stemmed from the same arguments, plus the fact he's not a concept, but his own thoughts manifested just makes his regen mid godly at best. HIGH GODLY STAYS BUT ON A HISTORICAL LEVEL ERASURE
Bardock: (DONE)
Acausality: Being a singularity would give him type 2 acausality, not type 1 or 4. ACCEPTED
AGREE: 11 (Fujiwara, Tarang, Delta, Planck, Maverick, Emirp, MGQScaler, StrymULTRA, Shanks, Larssx, AKUTO)
DISAGREE: 1 (godofice [physics and law hax])
NEUTRAL:
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