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Dragon Ball Super. To be canon, or not to be?

StekFence said:
Then why isn’t Z considered canon to super?
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In fact, Z is not considered canon only because it leaves the manga line a lot, but all filler arcs were involved with Akira Toriyama and he gave the idea of putting them (besides his drawings for filler characters)

It basically doesn't change anything for Z and the Dragon Ball manga (except for the explanations that are more detailed in Z and some events that are not in the manga, but it is an original story for the anime)
 
The advertisements contradict each other a lot, but "Super being a follow up to Z" is just for animation style or for reviving the series; it doesn't mean it literally as far as continuity is concerned especially since Z Anime as clearly written to have GT be its eventual follow up and some of its fillers contradict Super. Including the Bardock the Father of Goku TV special.

Toriyama's wording is better than just some Anime production ads where he says DBS is a sequal to his own work with the DBS manga originally just being promotional ad for the Anime, but times changed later on. They're both simply adaptations of Toriyama's plot outline but taken/interpreted in different directions. But they're both follow ups to the original manga, and feats exclusive to Anime or feats exclusive to Kai shouldn't be used for DBS scaling whether Anime or Manga. Not to mention, the movies of Broly and Super Hero advertised themselves as follow ups to the DBS Anime though some moments tribute both versions; such as Vegeta having a SSG form (Like in the manga) and Goku having the ability to fuse SSB and Kaioken (Like in the Anime). And reading the manga, there is an ad for the Broly movie like in the middle of the manga somewhere however.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Toriyama's wording is better than just some Anime production ads where he says DBS is a sequal to his own work
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oh, like how toriyama said he preferred the manga to the anime and that he fully entrusts toyotaro with the story
or like how shueisha consistently positions the manga as the ahem "canon sequel" to the original
 
The fact is

One of either Z or Kai is Canon to super

The reason why I believe it's Kai is because it's a more current anime adaptation and current info>old info it's also from Toei and was made about the same year super started AND uses Kai flashbacks iirc. Unless Toei specifically said it was the OG Z anime that was the sequel?

Either way, there's no way around the pure fact that super uses anime flashbacks.... meaning those events happened and are canon, it uses anime only characters like Gregory and anime only events such as ginyu and bulma body swapping. (when Bulma recognized him in RoF, when they had zero interactions in the anime) and even favours the anime special episode when it comes to a major plot point like when trunks first went super Saiyan

If super didn't show anime only events or events that specifically contradict the manga in favour of the anime, there might be a case , but there's too much evidence showing it's an anime sequel, and there's is absolutely zero reason for characters not to scale of it's canon to super, that's highly selective reasoning, you can't just decide parts of a canon work and label it non canon, the moment it started using Kai flashbacks, and brought anime only events and characters, it has to be considered canon. Shower is more faithful to the anime than manga, and because of this 2 canon state that dragon ball (and several other animes) has taken up, it allows for the anime to be canonized



Imho, this needs to change
 
Jaakor48 said:
Either way, there's no way around the pure fact that super uses anime flashbacks
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i don't get this point, an animated series has to use animated flashbacks, i don't think anyone would expect them to use manga panels in the flashbacks in an animated series right?
 
omegabronic said:
i am sorry but what is this point?
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Okay, let me dumb it down for you
omegabronic said:
duh an anime would use anime flashbacks, what did you expect them to do? to use manga panels in the flashbacks?
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Anime on anime flashbacks means that the flashback is canon to said anime..if super started bringing in gt flashbacks and ssj4, that would canonize gt. Super using Kai flashbacks with the exact Kai animation to explain super materials tells us that Kai material is canon to super anime

Is that explained enough for you?
 
Jaakor48 said:
Okay, let me dumb it down for you

Anime on anime flashbacks means that the flashback is canon to said anime..if super started bringing in gt flashbacks and ssj4, that would canonize gt. Super using Kai flashbacks with the exact Kai animation to explain super materials tells us that Kai material is canon to super anime

Is that explained enough for you?
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See, this doesn't make sense, because it's just using the most recent material. The source material itself is Z

Like, imagine a late 2010's anime using flashbacks with 1990's voicework. This is trying to create something out of nothing
 
CloverDragon03 said:
See, this doesn't make sense, because it's just using the most recent material. The source material itself is Z

Like, imagine a late 2010's anime using flashbacks with 1990's voicework. This is trying to create something out of nothing
Click to expand...
DBZ Kai is an adapted version of z, it cut out a lot of parts, so while Z had the source material, Kai modified the anime to remove a lot of content, there are things canon to z that would be absent in Kai. it's not the same, it's a retelling. If super is using Kai, you can't really go back and say it's Z unless we have proof that the OG anime was used, occam's razor would apply here, Kai was used as the flashback, all super anime exclusive materials are also in Kai. Whether it's due to animation differences or not, Kai is what super uses. The most recent material comes first and if they decided to use Kai, then Kai is what comes first unless super uses a flashback only in Z, but not Kai.
 
Jaakor48 said:
DBZ Kai is an adapted version of z, it cut out a lot of parts, so while Z had the source material, Kai modified the anime to remove a lot of content, there are things canon to z that would be absent in Kai. it's not the same, it's a retelling. If super is using Kai, you can't really go back and say it's Z unless we have proof that the OG anime was used, occam's razor would apply here, Kai was used as the flashback, all super anime exclusive materials are also in Kai. Whether it's due to animation differences or not, Kai is what super uses. The most recent material comes first and if they decided to use Kai, then Kai is what comes first unless super uses a flashback only in Z, but not Kai.
Click to expand...
ok, did you really expected them to use manga panels to represent the Z era then? is that what you are telling me?
 
Any argument found in the anime incorporating scenes from the previous anime adaptation in the form of flashbacks or the existence of Gregory (a creation of Toriyama's) is immediately discredited by the fact that not only is the series explicitly stated to follow the original series (Broad Strokes, anybody?), but Jaco the Galactic Patrolman is a prequel to the original series and NOT the TV anime.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
Any argument found in the anime incorporating scenes from the previous anime adaptation in the form of flashbacks or the existence of Gregory (a creation of Toriyama's) is immediately discredited by the fact that not only is the series explicitly stated to follow the original series (Broad Strokes, anybody?), but Jaco the Galactic Patrolman is a prequel to the original series and NOT the TV anime.
Click to expand...
Didn't DBS also bring back Tights (Bulma's sister), who was exclusive to Jaco the Galactic Patrolman beforehand?
 
I remember BOG being stated to be a sequel to DBZ, but also a prequel to DBGT in a Toei post in the past.

Maybe we could see the anime continuity as including the movie versions, but not the new anime/manga.
 
Honestly, shouldn't all of the Super anime's weird Toei-isms be enough to promote the Super manga to main canon status?
 
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