Drebin Profile Issues

[SheevShezarrine]

Let me be frank, Drebin is wanked, he does not scale to the people his profile claims he does, and I'm gonna tell you why.

Firstly, one of the claims on the profile justifying his physical stats is that he was trained as a child soldier under The Patriots. While not entirely false, he wasn't engineered and trained to the same level as Solid Snake or Raiden, being a child soldier in the Lord's Resistance Army, a militant faction in Africa that was one of The Patriots' many puppets, as opposed to an elite group like FOXHOUND. While he eventually ended up under the direct employ of The Patriots, it wasn't in a capacity where he was carrying out combat missions, instead being an arms dealer for Snake and covertly infecting him with FOXDIE.

Secondly, he lacks feats placing him on the level he is currently. He does not have any feats of fighting 8-B, High Hypersonic+ characters, such as with Ocelot fighting Big Boss or Solid Snake.

Thirdly, he is not known to have been exposed to environmental factors that would give hime superhuman powers, such as with Big Boss and The Boss, who were both exposed to high levels of radiation, which is shown to impart powers in some, as seen with Elisa/Ursula in Metal Gear Portable Ops.

Fourthly, he doesn't have any genealogical connection to the heavy hitters of MGS, such as with the Snakes and the Genome Soldiers being clones of and having the genetic material of Big Boss, respectively.

And finally, as an aside, his durability uses Snake's P-Bomb tanking feat from MG1, stating something to the effect of "scaling to regular soldiers, who can survive P-Bombs" when A) no and B) iirc the low-end for the P-Bombs (pulverization) was accepted, not the City Block level high-end (vaporization).

So yeah, nerf Drebin, his profile is erroneous. His 8-A attack potency with weapons and APC can stay, however.

 

[SheevShezarrine]

Bump

 

[SheevShezarrine]

Bump

 

[SheevShezarrine]

Bump

 

[Clyde_McReady]

Bump and agreed. By their logic you can expect fodder like Johnny to be Tier 8.

 

[Antvasima]

This makes sense to me. The page should preferably be adjusted accordingly, if somebody is willing to handle the editing.

 

[Twellas]

Or i mean, why not just remove the profile entirely? Why does DREBIN even have a page when important characters with actual feats like Kaz or even relevant Metal Gears like Peace Walker don't? Drebin's profile isn't even listed on the Metal Gear page, i didn't even know he had one until now

 

[Clyde_McReady]

^Agreed, it's pretty ridiculous when people use this kind of excuse to give any character a profile based on vague power scaling where they might as well say ┬À"they are from this verse and this verse is this strong so he must be that strong or else he would be fodder" ignoring all feats and context.

 

[Twellas]

Drebin doesn't have a SINGLE feat nor statement confirming that he's anything above a normal guy with no unique abilities, why even have a profile for him if we're not gonna list it in the MG page and we don't have profiles for very interesting characters such as The Sorrow?

 

[Clyde_McReady]

^True that, man. Heck, I think the site as a whole has a bad history of giving characters pages they don't deserve. Why bother to make a page for say, a fighting game character that's featless and whose stats boil down to "should be this strong because he's part of the verse and if he wasn't he would be fodder"? Too many assumptions, where's the fun in debating for that crap? It's only made worse by the guys who think being defeated by a character is an actual feat that means scaling to the guy automatically.

The Sorrow really deserves a page.

 

[Twellas]

I'm currently workin on a fairly big MG revision, and one of my proposals is to give The Sorrow a profile, I already compiled all of his abilities.

Let's not go too off track tho, my proposal here is that we just remove Drebin's page entirely

 

[Clyde_McReady]

I second that, hope they do something about it soon.

 

[Antvasima]

This makes sense to me. The page should preferably be adjusted accordingly, if somebody is willing to handle the editing.

 

[Clyde_McReady]

^So you're saying we should edit it or that we can erase it? As it stands, I see no feats for Drebin that would let us give him an accurate rating as opposed to deleting him altogether.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I can delete the page instead, if there is nothing reliable to scale him from.

 

[Clyde_McReady]

I can agree with that. He's not even in the Metal Gear page, it will be a good riddance.

 

[Antvasima]

I have deleted the page.

Should I close this thread?

 

[Clyde_McReady]

I'd say yes but maybe you should wait a little bit to see if the OP has anything else to say.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[Buttersamuri]

Even if he doesn't scale physically, his page shouldn't have been deleted. He still uses the same weapons as snake, and his APC directly scales to Metal gears as it literally fights with them and takes them down. There's absolutely no reason he should have been deleted, he obviously would know how to use his guns as he is a trained soldier as a child, giving him plenty of experience and skill with it. And his physical level should just scale to a standard soldier since that's what he would at least scale too. There is statements to support this, as he literally is brought up to be a soldier trained as a child for the patriots. It just means he scales to them physically.

The fact he is a soldier and has guns and his APC is enough to justify a page: especially since this weapons can injure metal gears. There's even physical feats we can use as scale to the soldiers. Like how a standard bomb can pulverize a tank, which they can survive, which is in the large building area.

 

[Twellas]

Drebin is never shown using any weapon in MGS4 and he never even comes close to fighting, the fact that he was a child soldier like 20 years before is irrelevant. His profile was completely pointless, amplified by the lack of other, objectively more relevant ones

 

[Twellas]

He didn't even have military nanomachines, which makes him even weaker and less haxed than random foot soldiers

 

[Buttersamuri]

That's just wrong. Him being a soldier does matter Because that means he was trained. He should know how to fight. Has the guns to fight, has an APC to fight with. He would know how to use a gun, has guns, is a soldier so trained in combat, and his freaking APC.

Calling the page pointless is appealing to a bias against the page. It doesn't break the rules. He Is More than capable of fighting considering he is a trained soldier with guns and an APC he knows how to use. So your reason is not valid there. We have far less capable fighters in the wiki. This is a Trained soldier with guns and an APC. He is qualifies to have a page

 

[Buttersamuri]

He didn't even have military nanomachines, which makes him even weaker and less haxed than random foot soldiers

He did have nano machines. That's why he didn't drink alchohol. He states this at the end of the game that he couldn't get drunk due to them

 

[Twellas]

He was a child soldier, his quality of training was never disclosed along with the time he spent doing it, being trained in war doesn't make you a peak soldier. The APC is not part of him, vehicles are not included in the character profiles, it's irrelevant


No, the page is pointless, it serves absolutely no purpose: doesn't scale to anything else in the verse, has no hax, has literally no feats of his own, is (should be, anyway) significantly weaker than even the weakest character on the wiki, why would we waste a profile for a character like that when essential profiles are missing, such as Peace Walker's?

 

[Twellas]

He didn't even have military nanomachines, which makes him even weaker and less haxed than random foot soldiers

He did have nano machines. That's why he didn't drink alchohol. He states this at the end of the game that he couldn't get drunk due to them

He outright states he doesn't have military nanomachines, which are the ones that give resistance to pain and empathic manipulation, enhanced senses etc. He literally has less hax than ******* Naomi (she has mid regen), and about the same amount of feats

 

[Buttersamuri]

That literally doesn't matter. The fact he was trained, which let's us know he at least would be in good physical condition and Know how to use fire arms and fight.

His APC is standard equipment. He is almost always driving in it so it's very relevant

And again. Appealing to a bias. Doesn't scale to anyone in the verse? Doesn't matter. He is trained and has guns. That's enough qualification for a page right there. Dozen of soldiers have pages just through that Laine

Has no haxs. K. So does a large number of pages. Plenty of people who are just trained soldiers who have pages.

significantly weaker than even the weakest character on the wiki. I seriously hope your joking cause this is so wrong on so many different levels. There are hundreds of people weaker than him.

If you want a peace walker profile. Make one. That's not even remotely related to deleted him. Less relevant characters can have pages first if they get made first. Which happened here

 

[Twellas]

So, the fact he was trained 20 years ago means that he just HAS to be in good physical condition in MGS4? What are you even talking about? You do know stuff is forgotten, right? We don't even know if he was a good soldier, he might have been terrible from what we know.

No, a vehicle cannot be standard equipment, otherwise Liquid would have REX as standard equipment and Armstrong would have EXCELSUS, for instance.

Yeah, if that's the case, why don't we have profiles for Genome soldiers and random PMC soldiers then? We know they would be at least on his tier, and they have more hax than him, why not have them then? We have to draw a line at a certain point, when we say "you know what? Maybe this character doesn't deserve a profile", otherwise we find ourselves full of "random fodder soldier" profiles bogging everything down.

What are you on about? What I'm saying is that not only is he irrelevant in terms of power, he ALSO doesn't have a single hax to back him up, also, the fact that other similar pages exist doesn't mean they SHOULD exist.

I was talking about MGS characters on the wiki, obviously. The weakest MG character is 8-B, Drebin would AT BEST be 10-A (we have ABSOLUTELY nothing indicating he's superhuman in any way, shape or form), 2 tiers below.

Oh yes, I'm going to make it, I'm currently revisioning MG, and giving Peace Walker a profile is among the points i will bring up, it just emphasizes the fact that Drebin's page existence is made even more pointless and insulting by the lack ok other, far more relevant profile.

so, TLDR: Drebin is a completely haxless character, 2 tiers below even the weakest character in the verse, with not a single feat, who SUPPOSEDLY has Snake's weaponry but is never seen even holding a single gun in his hand, just the opposite actually, he goes around with a white hankerchief signaling that HE DOESN'T WANT TO FIGHT. Him selling guns doesn't mean he uses them, like at all, we dont' even know if he brings them around with him. Again, why should this profile exist? Because the only justification you gave is "there are a lot of other useless profiles" and "irrelevant characters can have pages".

 

[Buttersamuri]

And that's making yo head canon at that point. There's no reason to assume he was a terrible soldier. Unless there's other evidence to support a different level, we assume he has the average level of a trained soldier. Who would know how to fight much better than your average human, Who would know how to use fire arms, and who would be in much better shape than your average person.

There's literally only one point in the game where he isn't seen with it. Here's a quote from the page

"Equipment listed as standard should be equipment the character has access to in a majority of their canon appearances."

He has it in almost all scenes he is in with only one instance where he didn't. So it would fall under standard.


Because nobody has made them. It's not because we're "drew a line" with them. That's some weak logic considering how many fodder enemies have pages. Their trained soldiers with weapons that can kill city block level people, Seriously. There wouldn't be an issue with them having profiles, or Drebin having one. That's your thought process but it's not the flat out rules. You don't make the rules of who can and can't have a profile. He follows under the same rules and breaks none of them. So he can have a profile; even if you don't like it.

Ok. So what. Doesn't have much physically, but he still is a trained soldier. He would know how to fight, would be at least athletic human like the rest of our average soldiers. And has city block to MCB guns and an APC. So that's plenty of reason alone

Ok Cool. Still complaining irrelevant to the point and northern backs up either of our sides on this argument cause this has nothing to do with it. Big whoop. They don't have a page. They are allowed to have one; they just don't have one. This doesn't mean Drebin can't have one


So all together. Your argument is irrelevant cause it appeals to a bias despite the fact he clearly violets none of the rules

He has City block to MCB weapons and his APC, Military training, and would be within athletic levels due to his training, as scaling him to at least an average soldier. Would know how to use a gun, So he is fine. As irrelevant and pointless as you see him

 

[Clyde_McReady]

The deletion was perfectly justified imo. Not necessary but then again, there's a lot of characters who deserve better. I'm not disagreeing that Drebin could have stats of his own to put him in fights, I'm just saying that picturing the vs battles with him they would be a total drag. Complaining about the deletion and what stats he "should have" is pointless, might as well give the Merchant from Resident Evil 4 a page because he carries the strongest weapons with him and is infected.

 

[Antvasima]

It seems like the character profile should stay deleted then.

 

[Buttersamuri]

That is just saying the page is not necessary which is again, a person view, and a double standard. The Main idea for Vs wiki was Not to have Versus threads. But be a place to show character stats, it's why Profiles they don't fight and aren't allowed in Versus threads can exist. And regardless. The mans a Military solider which weapons that scale to snake. He won't be that hard to place.

 

[Antvasima]

That is a good point. Should I restore the profile with unknown statistics instead then?

 

[Twellas]

Literally the only reason brought up to have that profile is that "there is no rule against it". I already went at length demonstrating how it serves absolutely no purpose and adding even no-face random pgs from the verse would make more sense, but if you want to further bog down a verse with already barely acceptable profiles as it is go ahead, not gonna stop you, just don't be surprised if no one even bothers adding him to the game's wiki page tho, which is already the case, btw.

 

[Twellas]

it's already been deleted, why even bother remaking it at this point?

 

[Twellas]

It would be like having a Nicoletta profile for DMC, she's EONS below even the most fodder character in the verse and she has no hax, but hey, she has access to Nero and Dante's weapons, so why not give her a profile as well? She NEVER uses them or even holds them in her hands, but she TECHNICALLY has them with her, so i guess we can give her "universal with weaponry". Profiles need to serve a purpose, however miniscule it is, otherwise we can just start compiling useless profile upon useless profile.

 

[Twellas]

Completely, 100% opposed to Drebin's profile being restored, but do as you wish, the argument is going to be "Remove the profile, it serves no purpose" "but there are no rules against useless profiles" ad nauseam, all the while important profiles like The Boss' has stuff like her having "MAYOR knowledge of psychology" and Big Boss' has straight up inaccurate weaknesses

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Never mind then. Should we close this thread?

 

[Buttersamuri]

I still seriously disagree. "Pointless" or not, that's still just an opinion on the pages existence and shouldn't be a reason to delete it. I could run up to pages and like "Oh this is pointless", yet that will get my Nowhere on getting them deleted. No matter how much it's said "Oh, well let's give this person a page then", Drebin has far Far more qualities for a page than dozens of pages that we have, breaks none of the rules, and Is causing no harm. Training, Weapons, experience, a vehicle, Ect. There is some guy who was just a human level dude who didn't know any form of fighting, and when brought to the deletion thread, you even vouched it was harmless to keep. So why are we deleting a Trained soldier with loads of experience, A MCB APC, and guns? In what world does he not qualify for a page and hundreds of the pages on this wiki does.

So just because people think the page is pointless, doesn't mean it should be deleted. It is qualifies to keep a profile. Complaining about other profiles in the MGS verse isn't right or doesn't have this profile is just an unrelated to this profile staying and would be stupid to use in a reason for deletion, and deleting it is a double standard based on a bias opinion against the page and is a really bad step for the wiki to start doing.

 

[Clyde_McReady]

Okay. Never mind then. Should we close this thread?

Yeah.