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Ok, uh hi. This revision will be pretty short as it only regards Truth of The Universe, Maria and Giygas. My plan is to upgrade Truth to 2-B and Upgrade Maria to Low 2-C. Alright, here goes nothing:

Truth (copy and pasting stuff I said in a message wall since I'm too lazy to type original stuff): Shouldn't Truth be 2-B because of that Magicant feat? Since it does in fact exist inside their Magicant, and should be capable of controlling them; since he does give people the power to absorb their realm, and the fact that it communicates with people within their own realm (which that part is range, but still). And that Truth exist in other possible timelines (we aren't given an exact number, just ones that we know like one of them being Ness as an adult fixing minor stuff in the present timeline (here, which apparently is stated in some guide book), because he wanted pictures of the Adventure, and regrets not doing so before. Or just outright losing to Giygas, which was stated by Buzz Buzz in the beginning of the game). Truth' summary page also states that it "speaks to the universes that exist inside everyone", that implying Magicant since it was present in Ness' magicant.

Maria: Ok, rather simple. Basically the quote in Truth' page that I mentioned above states that Magicant = Universe, with Maria being able to fully control it (her page even states that it's more "advanced" than Ness' Magicant) and allow other people in it. Her 7-A tier would technically contradict that statement that was made in Earthbound.


Giygas: Ok, so I don't get why he scales to Maria's magicant when no where in the game was it stated that he is superior to her or something in any way. He isn't being downgraded to Low 7-B or something; just getting rid of the scaling problem. And if Maria gets upgraded to Low 2-C, then it really has to go. EDIT: I thought he had more to the 7-A stuff, so he'll more likely get downgraded to "At least Low 7-B". NEW EDIT: Shouldn't Low 2-C Giygas get Higher Dimensional existence as this is stated in the Nintendo page and because he's comparable to Ness?

The Player: Ok, so this profile used to exist but then got ctrl-alt-delete despite having legit feats. That being effortlessly defeating Giygas, I mean this entity has appeared in all 3 games and still have characters from the game asking the player to input its name and appear in the end credits. Mother 3, the "END..?" box is controlled by the player interacting with the cast "What's the world there like? It looks like things will work out here, but what about your world? Will it be alright? Hey, other world. Be good to Player!" "Paula and her friends' calls touched the heart of ******. P*a*** prayed for the kids, having never even met them before. *layer kept praying. Pl*yer kept praying. Player kept praying." Not sure if this entity appeared in other Nintendo games, but if it has, then please input it here in this thread.
 
Well, if there's proof that everyone has their own Magicant, then that technically would be 2-B given the population of Earth alone is 7 Billion. And Maria's Magicant would be legit Low 2-C if that is the case, but I'm iffy agree with Giegue being inferior to Maria. Then again, it was Maria's song that seals Giegue away; so I guess I'm more neutral on that now.
 
Sorry for the late response, but yeah, it would be 7 billion Universe.


Has the Player ever made an appearance in other Nintendo games besides Earthbound?
 
Leaning towards agreeing with Magicant.

Also, why would Giygas still be 7-A? We don't have nothing that tells us he's comparable to Maria, and he only lost to the song becuse it reminded him of her, not becuse of power or something.
 
wait, I just noticed that his AP only comes from Maria's magicant

fork, I thought there was more to this, my bad.

Unless he performed something else, he'll have to be downgraded to At least Low 7-B?
 
Somewhat unrelated but...

Is there any more justification for type 1 Abstract Existence for Truth of the Universe besides «The embodiment of "Truth" in the Earthbound world» because without anything more, this should just warrant type 3 Abstract Existence.
 
RotofBots said:
Somewhat unrelated but...
Is there any more justification for type 1 Abstract Existence for Truth of the Universe besides «The embodiment of "Truth" in the Earthbound world» because without anything more, this should just warrant type 3 Abstract Existence.
"Type 1: Exists purely as an abstraction. These characters lack a true physical form, and affecting them requires the ability to affect directly the abstraction itself, because eventual physical manifestations are merely avatars.

Examples: Apocalymon (Digimon), Madoka Kaname (Puella Magi Madoka Magica)"

The truth has no phyiscal form and is quite literally just the truth of the universe.
 
GiverOfThePeace said:
Where is it proven that each magicant is a universe?
The quote that is posted on Truths page and the fact that its summary page quite literally states "It speaks to the universes that exist inside everyone"; so I think that Maria and Ness' Magicant should be comparable.
 
Uh... this seems odd. One hand it does say that, on the other hand, Maria's entire magicant in size and everything is never shown to be anything bigger then an island, even when he get a better view of it and it dissapears it barely looks universal in size, at least Ness' had planets and stars in his background.
 
I'm aware that Maria's magicant in size looks to be 7-A (as the profile states), however Ness' magicant justifications of it being a universe is through that statement (also that rock guy too). Otherwise it would just be Tier 4 instead of tier 2, and I don't see why it can't scale (also doubt the NES is capable of something like that).
 
I doub it's that the NES wasn't capable of that, as they could of easily shown a starry sky. The tier 4 size further justified it's tier 2 setting.
 
I mean, we aren't given a lot regarding the size of Maria' Magicant besides that statement (of it being Universal), it even says in her profile that it is more "advanced" than Ness'.

Further more, I recall there being someone that said Ness' magicant was an entire country.
 
also, did the player appear in any other games?

I've added that Giygas should get higher D like Ness to the OP.
 
There's no real statement of Maria's magicant being universal, there's just a statement in mother 2 of the universes inside people's minds. The profile seems to b e off unless that's officially said. Ness' magicant literally has planets and stars in the background.

4D Giygas I agree with, he can put his attacks in a state where not even Ness can comprehend them.
 
Oh I thought I replied. Again, Maria's magicant doesn't remotely shown to be near a universe, no starry sky, the biggest we see of it is an island in size. Honestly I think magicant only applies to beings with psychic powers also, who aren't common in the earthbound world (By "aren't common" I'm referirng to like, everyone 1 in each town would probably be a psychic, possibly 2). So even if Maria's magicant IS a universe, I don't think it'd even reach 2-B.
 
Okay. I suppose that this revision seems to be debunked then. Is there anything left to do here?
 
After doing some talking and thinking, I'm going to discard Multiversal TOTU and Universal Level+ Maria.

For now, Higher Dimensional existence and Giegue getting downgraded to At least Low 7-B is all that is left.
 
I think the scaling from Giygas to Maria was initially because they use his studying of PSI and he called Ninten's PSI that of an ant compared to his but I don't mind At least Low 7-B Gigue regardless. Higher dimensionale xistence Giygas is a definite yes, not even a fully 4D Ness could grasp his attacks and such.
 
DaBigP said:
After doing some talking and thinking, I'm going to discard Multiversal TOTU and Universal Level+ Maria.
For now, Higher Dimensional existence and Giegue getting downgraded to At least Low 7-B is all that is left.
This^

Higher Dimensional Existence for Giygas and Giegue becomes At least Low 7-B.
 
Small thing about the TotU:

Probability Manipulation (Apple Kid, a genius scientist, described the probability of Ness winning against Giygas as just a 1% against 99%, yet, Ness's courage managed to pull the 1% victory, although this is mostly attributed to the Truth)

This doesn't seem like Probability Manipulation, but just a consequence of her(?) Fate Manipulation.

Apple Kid, calculating the probabilities, determined that it would have been almost impossible. However, thorough TotU's Fate Manipulation, Ness managed to win anyways.

What I'm trying to say is that TotU doesn't manipulate the probability of something happening directly, but she(?), through her fate manipulation, made it so that this 1% would have happened.

Also, existing independently from Time is type 4 Acausality
 
That's why it's listed as either probability or fate manipulation since a percentage was given. Either or would make Ness win the fight due to the hax.
 
The probability calculated was Ness' actual chances.

Then the Truth made so that those chances would have happened due to Fate manipulation.
 
I mean, I would be fine with just leaving it as just Fate Manipulation. I can agree with Type 4 Acausality.

Now the only thing here is just to downgrade Giygas to "At least Low 7-B" via being superior (nearly stomping) to the EBB protagonist, and add a few new abilities for him such as: Higher Dimensional Existence (Should TOTU also get this?), Precognition and Clairvoyance via Apple of enlightenment (which can be used for prep time)
 
Can somebody summarise why Giygas should be downgraded so much?
 
He's talking about his weaker Tier 7 key of Giygas, aka Giegue. The reason was because he currently scales from Maria's 7-A Magicant; but he's never fought against her nor was he directly compared to her from the looks of it. But he's effortlessly curbstomped the Low 7-B protagonists who required Maria's song to defeat. Reason for At least Low 7-B. The Tier 2 stuff is staying as it is.
 
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