Ellimist and Crayak upgrade/Q downgrade/10-D vs. 26-D difference/help?

[Ultima_Reality]

No, we've agreed to downgrade Q to 5-D.

Speaking about it, couldn't Q be High 1-B? Or at least "possibly/likely High 1-B"? Considering that he describes the Q Continuum as having "limitless dimensions", and the Civil War between the Q themselves was burning it apart, by Q's own words.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

At this point I'm neutral on upgrading or downgrading his AP but his hax is a mess

 

[Yukaphile]

My original intent was simply to ask why Ellimist is not while Q is in relation to the 10-D vs. 26-D thing Animorphs has in contrast to Barclay postulating it. I mean, I don't think we're gonna get an answer anytime soon. Remember back when Idazmi and myself were arguing about the Enterprise being able to crack planets and so on? Yeah, it's a whole can of worms that is perhaps best left unresolved, for the moment. I mean, gimme something like Babylon 5 or Stargate SG-1 any day. Way more consistent than TNG and DS9 and Voyager.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

"Okay, well, you know that space-time has ten dimensions. There are the normal dimensions of up/down, left/right, and forward/back. Then there is the fourth dimension, which is time. Then, there are six other dimensions, but they are curled up into themselves, so we don't see or feel them. All we feel are three space dimensions, plus time."

This does imply the dimensions are compact.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Wait...

Actually

<Imagine if, instead of three normal space dimensions, we only had two. Imagine we were flat, and we couldn't go up or down, just in the other two directions. Call us the Flatties. See?>

"Like if we lived on a piece of paper," Loren said.

<Exactly. It would be like we were drawings on a piece of paper. And if someone came along and drew a box around us, we could never get out. Because the lines of the box would be walls. But what if a three-dimensional person came along? A three-dimensional person could lift that Flattie right up out of that box. The Flattie wouldn't even know what was happening, because he's never gone up or down before. He doesn't even know up and down exist.>

"You're saying we're like the Flatties. Except we're in three dimensions, not just two. So we're like Cubies or something."

<Yes. So if some creature came along who existed in more dimensions than us, he'd be able to do things that would be impossible for us.>

 

[Yukaphile]

I have quoted that. Numerous times already.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Ask Ultima if it's enough

 

[Yukaphile]

I wanna say this - water manipulation is NEVER something I can recall seeing him do on the show - the primary canon. He could, definitely. But until it's shown, it's speculation.

 

[ByAsura]

No, we've agreed to downgrade Q to 5-D. Speaking about it, couldn't Q be High 1-B? Or at least "possibly/likely High 1-B"? Considering that he describes the Q Continuum as having "limitless dimensions", and the Civil War between the Q themselves was burning it apart, by Q's own words.

He already is in your sandbox, isn't he? I don't think he says the Q Continuum was being destroyed, just subspace. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Yukaphile]

Again, the episode we're citing here about the civil war couldn't even keep consistent with itself.

 

[ByAsura]

Small continuity mistakes don't invalidate an entire canon episode.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

He already is in your sandbox, isn't he? I don't think he says the Q Continuum was being destroyed, just subspace. Correct me if I'm wrong.

As far as I remember, he also specifically said the Continuum was "burning" because of the war, and Janeway mentioned later on in the episode that the whole realm would be destroyed if the conflict didn't stop as soon as possible.

Besides, it would be a tad odd if the Q as an organization / race didn't scale to their own home universe, especially considering Quinn's claims that they did everything that was possible to do or experience in it's boundaries.

 

[ByAsura]

Ok.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Uh, is the dimension stuff for animorphs fine or not?

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Acraully

<No one knows. Some people say the Ellimists still exist, but they've moved beyond the normal space-time dimensions we know. There are some who say the Ellimists are almost all-powerful.> I shrugged. <Of course, there are others who say they're gone forever. Or even that they never did exist. Now Andalite parents tell their children stories about the Ellimists.>

This comes from a character who knows about 10-D stuff

Wouldn't this be like

11D High 1-C?

 

[Yukaphile]

Small mistakes? How about inconsistencies in DC and AP? I know people like Idazmi will think they're consistently planetary, and while they have a few feats within those ranges, there are many other examples too - to name two, "Alliances" and "Future's End." It's why trying to figure out the Enterprise's exact DC and AP is a flippin' nightmare and best left unresolved. Kinda like this, I guess.

@Zach I've wanted that for a long time. It seems at this point we're just rehashing a conversation we've had over and over and over. So unless the mods have changed their stance, there really is no point here. I mean, true, the writers had based Ellimist on Q, without a doubt. But, you know, they go by feats here, and with good reason. So... where do we go from here?

 

[Antvasima]

So what are the conclusions here and their summarised reasoning?

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

We're not done, sadly

 

[Antvasima]

Oh. That is too bad. I am trying to speed things along before April 15 when the content revision threads will be put on hold for a rather long period of time.

 

[ByAsura]

Small mistakes? How about inconsistencies in DC and AP? I know people like Idazmi will think they're consistently planetary, and while they have a few feats within those ranges, there are many other examples too - to name two, "Alliances" and "Future's End." It's why trying to figure out the Enterprise's exact DC and AP is a flippin' nightmare and best left unresolved. Kinda like this, I guess.

That's completely irrelevant, we're not talking about the Enterprise, starfleet or any Federation starship. The Q are always portrayed as one of, if not the most powerful species in Star Trek and capable of manipulating time-space, but never omnipotent. Even in his second appearance, the Continuum forcefully teleported Q back to them.

 

[Yukaphile]

They are, but that borders on spirit of the character arguments. The mods here go by direct feats. And you know, "The Q and the Grey" was such a massive letdown. It didn't utilize the full potential of the Q to their utmost effect. I mean, the preceding Q-arc episode, "Death Wish," at least had 'em go back to before the Big Bang, shrink the ship down to subomatic particles, and make it a Christmas Tree ornament. Plus all the shenigans at the hearing. That was a great episode. Everything after... bleh. Kenneth Biller is just... arguably one of the worst Trek writers.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Can we downgrade Q's hzx

 

[Yukaphile]

Tbf, some are speculative, but also not outside the realm of possibility for Q. Water Manipulation? While he's never shown it, could do it.

 

[Antvasima]

We should preferably remove the ones that have not been demonstrated.

 

[Yukaphile]

Well, you want me to offer suggestions?

 

[Antvasima]

I suppose that would be a good idea, but we would need some input from experienced members and staff listed in the Star Trek verse page afterwards.