Emo Spider vs Edgy Turtle (Spider-Woman vs Bowser) (8-0-0) (GRACE)

[Oiguana2701]

poor poor bowser
rip

Just to be sure, does this count as a vote?

 

[Robo432343]

yuh

 

[Lonkitt]

peach who on her first try years ago completed a parkcore course that took Mario while amped hours of non stop attempts to basically succeed at and before did this non amped at the same time as donkey Kong

I feel like I’m having to constantly repeat myself. That is honestly child’s play compared to Gwen. Seriously, she could’ve cleared through this part in under seconds compared to Mario. No. Mario does not match the agility of Gwen. I don’t think you’ve actually seen her fight if you’re saying this is comparable to her mobility

Peach’s parkour is laughable compared to the shit Gwen does without even trying

Peach and Mario really don’t compare to Gwen’s analytical capabilities and agility in combat

he didn't even make an effort to

What??? It was the climax of the movie, why wouldn’t he make an effort to???? He was definitely trying to fight back, this is a very confusing argument. Of course he made an effort

That doesn't seem to be anywhere on here profile you mean the strain and net like versions why would one work if the out doesn't

What? This is a thing for literally 98% of the Spider-People on the wiki. They use web lines, web-balls, etc.

Sorry. The “it’s not on the profile” excuse isn’t gonna cut it, because it doesn’t need to be clarified in this way. It’s pretty clear if you just watch her in action, which I’m really doubting you have because you keep bringing up examples to say Bowser would easily deal with her when said examples are far below what Gwen is capable of

Fire breath can be used continuously and given what it did to the koopa and the fact she doesn't even have heat resistance

You don’t need heat resistance to close a mouth. You don’t need heat resistance to dodge something you’ve continuously shown you’re very capable of dodging with great ease. Having the ability to spew fire doesn’t mean you can break out of At least Class M webbing with your mouth alone if it’s being forced shut by continuous webbing by a far more agile and mobile opponent


Seriously, you’re making these incredibly large leaps in logic. You claim Bowser’s dealt with far more agile opponents when he really hasn’t. You’re saying he can escape from At least Class M webbing when he really can’t. You’re acting as if Gwen can’t get around Bowser’s fire and restrain him when she really can. You’re acting as though Peach and Donkey Kong are superior fighters when they really aren’t. You’re acting like Bowser didn’t make an effort to fight back against the brothers in the FINAL BATTLE when he CLEARLY DID

You’re pushing for Bowser’s victory with arguments that just don’t clearly make sense here. Please stop making me have to repeat myself because it’s getting very irritating having to repeat myself against your repetitive arguments that don’t get stronger with your responses. TBH this is a pretty decisive battle in Spider-Woman’s favour

 

[Oiguana2701]

yuh

Counted then

 

[Oiguana2701]

So we enter grace

 

[Lou_change]

I feel like I’m having to constantly repeat myself. That is honestly child’s play compared to Gwen. Seriously, she could’ve cleared through this part in under seconds compared to Mario. No. Mario does not match the agility of Gwen. I don’t think you’ve actually seen her fight if you’re saying this is comparable to her mobility

such as, just jumping higher doesn't help her much and it makes her have less control of her positioning until landing

You’re acting as though Peach and Donkey Kong are superior fighters when they really aren’t.

He fought a 2v1 against opponents more agile than him even if both are less agile than Gwen the fact he defeated both of them proves he can deal with multiple opponents more agile than him.

You’re acting like Bowser didn’t make an effort to fight back against the brothers in the FINAL BATTLE when he CLEARLY DID

Yeah he did but that effort consisted almost entirely of trying to attack them to no effect

What? This is a thing for literally 98% of the Spider-People on the wiki. They use web lines, web-balls, etc.

The web lines are the ones used to swing things and unintentionally snap spines, the balls are the ones used when the just want to stick something, I don't spend time looking at spider people enough to know every why they can shoot webs

It’s pretty clear if you just watch her in action, which I’m really doubting you have because you keep bringing up examples to say Bowser would easily deal with her when said examples are far below what Gwen is capable of

I have only seen clips so I could be missing things and I never said he could do it easily I haven't even decided to vote for him I argued in favor of his ability to fight back.

You don’t need heat resistance to close a mouth. You don’t need heat resistance to dodge something you’ve continuously shown you’re very capable of dodging with great ease. Having the ability to spew fire doesn’t mean you can break out of At least Class M webbing with your mouth alone if it’s being forced shit by continuous webbing by a far more agile and mobile opponent

I believe I have asked what stops the fire from burning the webs you said the fact his mouth is closed I pointed out he was able to breathe fire when his mouth was frozen shut you responded

You do know Gwen can use different types of webbing, right? And she can use more of it in succession, right? Not all of her webs operate the same way. Yes, she can absolutely shut his mouth for good, and she’s not just gonna be using one web. She’s gonna be using multiple. Bowser’s not gonna be able to deal with that. Especially when his entire body is wrapped up like a present

I am not entirely sure I get the point of this comment as a response to what I said.

Of the fights I seen, her versus doc Ock, scorpion, and, vulture, she webbed up only one of them, doc ock, and shot only a single web at each arm and she doesn't seem to start with webbing people's mouths shut outside of the stealth takedowns.

You don’t need heat resistance to close a mouth. You don’t need heat resistance to dodge something you’ve continuously shown you’re very capable of dodging with great ease. Having the ability to spew fire doesn’t mean you can break out of At least Class M webbing with your mouth alone if it’s being forced shit by continuous webbing by a far more agile and mobile opponent

you can't stop a flame thrower with something flammable even if she can dodge his fire breath has a range over 50m at least and he is able to quickly turn it here by just moving his head.

 

[Lonkitt]

such as, just jumping higher doesn't help her it just makes her have less control of her positioning until landing

What? I wasn’t referring to just the fact she can jump higher, she’s shown to be so much more acrobatic. Claiming she has less control is terrible downplay too. You have definitely not seen her mobility on full display

This is a no brainer

He fought a 2v1 against opponents more agile then him even if both are less agile then Gwen the fact he defeated both of them proves he can deal with multiple opponents more agile then him.

Cool. But none of them were nearly as agile or skilled as Gwen. Hell, Gwen would be able to solo Donkey Kong and Peach at the same time as well. Let’s face it, Gwen’s got a lot more finesse in combat than Donkey Kong, Peach, and Bowser

Yeah he did but that effort consisted almost entirely of trying to attack them to no effect

You’re only proving my point further. He would struggle hard against Gwen via trying to only attack her only to get outmaneuver, restrained, and BFRed

GG

The web lines are the ones used to swing things and unintentionally snap spines, the balls are the ones used when the just want to stick something, I don't spend time looking at spider people enough to know every why they can shoot webs

The fact you also bring up that you haven’t even seen the different web variants people like Gwen has backs up that you really don’t know how skilled of a fighter she is

No, she doesn’t just use web balls and web lines. Believe it or not, she can use webbing in larger quantities. If you paid attention to her showings in battle, this would be fairly clear to see

Of the fights I seen, her versus doc Ock, scorpion, and, vulture, she webbed up only one of them, doc ock, and shot only a single web at each arm and she doesn't seem to start with webbing people's mouths shut outside of the stealth takedowns.

She’s literally used webs on peoples’ mouths before, lmao. But let’s talk about those battles real quick

Did it maybe occur to you that, I dunno, she didn’t web the mouths of Ock and the others because they couldn’t shoot fire from their mouths? Gwen’s super smart, of course she’s gonna web his mouth. Literally anyone in this thread would do that if they had her powers and were fighting Bowser. This is such a no brainer is insane. And she would definitely use more webbing to restrain his mouth and the rest of his body. Different opponents require different approaches, Lou. This isn’t complex

you can't stop a flame thrower with something flammable even if she can dodge his fire breath has a range over 50m at least and he is able to quickly turn it here by just moving his head.

She’s literally dodges Vulture’s large energy beams with ease, as well as bullets. 50 meter streams of fire are gonna be super easy for her to avoid. Bowser can turn his head? Gwen can still avoid that. Again, this really isn’t complex. Plus, against more agile opponents, Bowser’s fire isn’t effective. Peach was able to easily avoid Bowser’s fire and she’s much less skilled and acrobatic compared to Spider-Woman

You’re going in circles with these arguments

 

[DaReaperMan]

What? I wasn’t referring to just the fact she can jump higher, she’s shown to be so much more acrobatic

This is a no brainer

Cool. But none of them were nearly as agile or skilled as Gwen. Hell, Gwen would be able to solo Donkey Kong and Peach at the same time as well. Let’s face it, Gwen’s got a lot more finesse in combat than Donkey Kong, Peach, and Bowser

You’re only proving my point further. He would struggle hard against Gwen via trying to only attack her only to get outmaneuver, restrained, and BFRed

GG


The fact you also bring up that you haven’t even seen the different web variants people like Gwen has backs up that you really don’t know how skilled of a fighter she is

No, she doesn’t just use web balls and web lines. Believe it or not, she can use webbing in larger quantities. If you paid attention to her showings in battle, this would be fairly clear to see


She’s literally used webs on peoples’ mouths before, lmao. But let’s talk about those battles real quick

Did it maybe occur to you that, I dunno, she didn’t web the mouths of Ock and the others because they couldn’t shoot fire from their mouths? Gwen’s super smart, of course she’s gonna web his mouth. Literally anyone in this thread would do that if they had her powers and were fighting Bowser. This is such a no brainer is insane. And she would definitely use more webbing to restrain his mouth and the rest of his body. Different opponents require different approaches, Lou. This isn’t complex


She’s literally dodges Vulture’s large energy beams with ease, as well as bullets. 50 meter streams of fire are gonna be super easy for her to avoid. Bowser can turn his head? Gwen can still avoid that. Again, this really isn’t complex. Plus, against more agile opponents, Bowser’s fire isn’t effective. Peach was able to easily avoid Bowser’s fire and she’s much less skilled and acrobatic compared to Spider-Woman

You’re going in circles with these arguments

On a lighter note, you think Gwen could have a fair match with Trazyn the Infinite?

 

[Lonkitt]

On a lighter note, you think Gwen could have a fair match with Trazyn the Infinite?

No

 

[DaReaperMan]

No

Sad

 

[Lonkitt]

Sad

Idk why you asked me

 

[Lonkitt]

I believe I have asked what stops the fire from burning the webs you said the fact his mouth is closed I pointed out he was able to breathe fire when his mouth was frozen shut you responded

Right, gonna follow up on this

I have said this like 7 times now. Look at the scene. When Bowser opens his eyes, we see his mouth has enough room to move. That’s not the same as webbing having his mouth completely tightly shut. And again. The ice is nowhere near Class M either

Stop using this as a point for Bowser

 

[Lou_change]

What? I wasn’t referring to just the fact she can jump higher, she’s shown to be so much more acrobatic. Claiming she has less control is terrible downplay too. You have definitely not seen her mobility on full display

perhaps not, do you know where I can see examples other than spending money to watch the movies. I mean she has less control over her movement compared to when on the ground or wall clinging and from what I have seen has been more consistently tagged while in the are then when grounded

Cool. But none of them were nearly as agile or skilled as Gwen. Hell, Gwen would be able to solo Donkey Kong and Peach at the same time as well. Let’s face it, Gwen’s got a lot more finesse in combat than Donkey Kong, Peach, and Bowser

Agreed

You’re only proving my point further. He would struggle hard against Gwen via trying to only attack her only to get outmaneuver, restrained, and BFRed

those two could actually harm him and that was when he was very pissed off, if she can restrain Bowser indefinitely she doesn't need to BFR him technically and again the circumstances of her BFRing someone

a technique she use once with a portal created prior to the encounter against an off guard opponent

That “off guard opponent” literally had precognition.

He didn't react or have the spider sense tingle show up (unless they just got rid of it showing in the second movie)

She’s literally used webs on peoples’ mouths before, lmao.

I said as much she webbed who I assume were guards mouths shut for a silent take down.

The fact you also bring up that you haven’t even seen the different web variants people like Gwen has backs up that you really don’t know how skilled of a fighter she is

I agree she has a significant skill advantage

Did it maybe occur to you that, I dunno, she didn’t web the mouths of Ock and the others because they couldn’t shoot fire from their mouths? Gwen’s super smart, of course she’s gonna web his mouth. Literally anyone in this thread would do that if they had her powers and were fighting Bowser. This is such a no brainer is insane. And she would definitely use more webbing to restrain his mouth and the rest of his body. Different opponents require different approaches, Lou. This isn’t complex

She doesn't even have gifted so disagree
yes, I suppose I was unclear but she doesn't know he can breathe fire until he does so.

She’s literally dodges Vulture’s large energy beams with ease, as well as bullets. 50 meter streams of fire are gonna be super easy for her to avoid. Bowser can turn his head? Gwen can still avoid that. Again, this really isn’t complex. Plus, against more agile opponents, Bowser’s fire isn’t effective. Peach was able to easily avoid Bowser’s fire and she’s much less skilled and acrobatic compared to Spider-Woman

energy beam
That beam is significantly small than Bowser fire breath and
a) peach knew about the fire breath preparing to jump out of the way just as Bowser finished his one liner and before he shoots out his flames
b) he didn't try turning
c) He was pissed off which is noted as a problem of his in the weakness section

I have said this like 7 times now. Look at the scene. When Bowser opens his eyes, we see his mouth has enough room to move. That’s not the same as webbing having his mouth frozen shut.

We literally see peach specifically freeze his mouth shut what fundamental difference is there between covering his ice vs covering it with webbing besides LS which is not related to what happens when they are exposed to a flame.

I'll stop arguing now

 

[Lonkitt]

perhaps not, do you know where I can see examples other than spending money to watch the movies. I mean she has less control over her movement compared to when on the ground or wall clinging and from what I have seen has been more consistently tagged while in the are then when grounded

Wtf? She has tons of control when she's in the air, what are you saying? She can freely more around her body and use webbing you know. Webswinging, remember?

those two could actually harm him and that was when he was very pissed off, if she can restrain Bowser indefinitely she doesn't need to BFR him technically and again the circumstances of her BFRing someone

Bowser has City Block durability and you're arguing that, Gwen, who upscales the High 8-C value that comes from the movie, can't harm Bowser, yet those who are weaker than Gwen can....?

You're gonna need a revision for that one. Also I still brought up BFR because its a pretty surefire wincon

He didn't react or have the spider sense tingle show up (unless they just got rid of it showing in the second movie)

It'd be weird to assume it wouldn't go off there

She doesn't even have gifted so disagree
yes, I suppose I was unclear but she doesn't know he can breathe fire until he does so.

And her mobility and Spider-Sense are gonna let her dodge. From there, she knows what to do. Not really that difficult

energy beam
That beam is significantly small than Bowser fire breath and
a) peach knew about the fire breath preparing to jump out of the way just as Bowser finished his one liner and before he shoots out his flames
b) he didn't try turning
c) He was pissed off which is noted as a problem of his in the weakness section

The beam's size really isn't that different TBH

A) The thing is, Gwen actually has a better chance of dodging it. She has Precog. No way she's gonna stand there like an idiot and get hit. Hell, she has a better chance of avoiding the fire than Peach ever had
B) Turning or not turning, Gwen's gonna avoid it easily
C) Bowser's usually pissed. And either way, his fighting style is the same no matter what mood he's in. Its not like he becomes a combat genius when he's donning a calm attitude

We literally see peach specifically freeze his mouth shut what fundamental difference is there between covering his ice vs covering it with webbing besides LS which is not related to what happens when they are exposed to a flame.

A) The ice isn't as strong as Gwen's webbing
B) Bowser's mouth seems pretty free here regardless. It even moves before he lets out fire
C) Webbing can't be exposed to flames if Bowser is literally incapable of opening his mouth when it's completely restrained by webbing thats far stronger than any of his LS feats. He's just gonna get more angry and Gwen will take the win

 

[DaReaperMan]

Pretty sure Lou means the beat down the brothers gave him with super stars lol

 

[Lonkitt]

Pretty sure Lou means the beat down the brothers gave him with super stars lol

It really doesn't matter either way. His mindset is generally the same in combat

 

[Lou_change]

Wtf? She has tons of control when she's in the air, what are you saying? She can freely more around her body and use webbing you know. Webswinging, remember?

Correct this might just be me exaggerating a pattern I saw of her being hit in the air more often one the ground

Bowser has City Block durability and you're arguing that, Gwen, who upscales the High 8-C value that comes from the movie, can't harm Bowser, yet those whoo are weaker than Gwen can...

Don’t we use likely stuff by default means it’s 8-B+ and I thought type 2 immorality would help

Also I still brought up BFR because its a pretty surefire wincon

fair

It'd be weird to assume it wouldn't go off there

it is not the only time spider people get hit by surprise the weird vulture surprise attacks her for example

A) The thing is, Gwen actually has a better chance of dodging it. She has Precog. No way she's gonna stand there like an idiot and get hit. Hell, she has a better chance of avoiding the fire than Peach ever had
B) Turning or not turning, Gwen's gonna avoid it easily
C) Bowser's usually pissed. And either way, his fighting style is the same no matter what mood he's in. Its not like he becomes a combat genius when he's donning a calm attitude

A) Fair
B) Depending on how far apart they are it should whip around faster than her but probably fair
C) He does exhibit differences in the one scene we see it when he attacks the ice kingdom but that might be due to other factor, he is also is a skilled military strategist for what that’s worth.
D) He might not have wanted to destroy the entire wedding hall or burn his minions

A) The ice isn't as strong as Gwen's webbing
B) Bowser's mouth seems pretty free here regardless. It even moves before he lets out fire
C) Webbing can't be exposed to flames if Bowser is literally incapable of opening his mouth when it's completely restrained by webbing thats far stronger than any of his LS feats. He's just gonna get more angry and Gwen will take the win

A) Fair but most forms of material strength don’t consist heat
B) Fair but weird that is the case.
C) Bowser doesn’t normally close his mouth all the way so I don’t think he would need to open I assume his claws can’t cut it.

that said Gwen FRA
If I can’t convince people more knowledge about both characters then me bowser wins I am probably incorrect.

 

[Oiguana2701]

Correct this might just be me exaggerating a pattern I saw of her being hit in the air more often one the ground

Don’t we use likely stuff by default means it’s 8-B+ and I thought type 2 immorality would help

fair

it is not the only time spider people get hit by surprise the weird vulture surprise attacks her for example

A) Fair
B) Depending on how far apart they are it should whip around faster than her but probably fair
C) He does exhibit differences in the one scene we see it when he attacks the ice kingdom but that might be due to other factor, he is also is a skilled military strategist for what that’s worth.
D) He might not have wanted to destroy the entire wedding hall or burn his minions

A) Fair but most forms of material strength don’t consist heat
B) Fair but weird that is the case.
C) Bowser doesn’t normally close his mouth all the way so I don’t think he would need to open I assume his claws can’t cut it.

that said Gwen FRA
If I can’t convince people more knowledge about both characters then me bowser wins I am probably incorrect.

So, this counts as a Gwen vote, I guess
Counted

 

[Lonkitt]

This can be added now

 

[Lonkitt]

I've added the results. Closing this now