Er Gen verse Transduality Type 2 for 4th step cultivators

[Qawsedf234]

@Qawsedf234 Can I ask what part of the scans imply there’s some dual nature going on? Because a lot of the statements sound more like the Essence existed before anything was created and it decided to create everything in existence as opposed to there being dual nature stuff involved.

How I'm reading it is that the Essence is the personification of dual systems. As in the "Is" and "Is not" of the franchise. Even if it predates the concepts in some degree it still embodies duality in my reading.

 

[Qawsedf234]

The scan saying that the Daosource exceeded Essence isn't enough?

Exceeding the Essence isn't the same as being beyond duality or a dual system. You have to prove that Daosource isn't subjected to binary ideals.

 

[ImmortalDread]

@SweetDao Thanks for actually presenting scans, but the scan with “exceeding the Essence”, needs more elaboration.

 

[SweetDao]

Exceeding the Essence isn't the same as being beyond duality or a dual system. You have to prove that Daosource isn't subjected to binary ideals.

Within ISSTH, I heavily doubt there is something like that in any way, shape or form.

There was the scan that explain how a transcendent replaced the essences/laws around him by their mere presence

A scan that says achieving Daosource means becoming "a source of Essence"

Daosource is described as "the actual source of all Daos" (So Essence basically)

 

[Malekith]

Within ISSTH, I heavily doubt there is something like that in any way, shape or form.

There was the scan that explain how a transcendent replaced the essences/laws around him by their mere presence

A scan that says achieving Daosource means becoming "a source of Essence"

Daosource is described as "the actual source of all Daos" (So Essence basically)

The complex is that to better explain the essence, we would have to go back to some concepts that were introduced in the work as a whole. Bai Xiaochun's last fight and onwards until the last chapter more or less explains the essence and how it works. But like I said, just playing these chapters without any context won't do any good.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Qawsedf234 I personally don’t see the whole “Is and is not” statements in the OP but ok, thanks for the response.

 

[ImmortalDread]

@Qawsedf234 I personally don’t see the whole “Is and is not” statements in the OP but ok, thanks for the response.

There is no necessity for you to provide it. The writer is capable of delineating the duality system on their own.

In any case, I would like to express gratitude to @SweetDao for their candor and for sharing scans as well as the contextual plot. Is there a blog or terminology webpage for this universe that elucidates on the concept of “Essence”? I ask because the term appears to be frequently employed to denote phenomena that transcend the realms of natural law and magic, which would classify the character Aca as a type 4.

 

[SweetDao]

The complex is that to better explain the essence, we would have to go back to some concepts that were introduced in the work as a whole. Bai Xiaochun's last fight and onwards until the last chapter more or less explains the essence and how it works. But like I said, just playing these chapters without any context won't do any good.

Yes but even with providing context, I doubt we can even reach a point where transduality becomes blatant. I suppose with some thorough explanations it might be possible, but even if you provide the context for Essence, Daosource, laws, etc etc, at least within ISSTH, there is nothing that will lead to what the OP originally proposed.

Maybe the few explanations of the Dao could do the trick? I only vaguely remember them so, eh, maybe.

 

[SweetDao]

There is no necessity for you to provide it. The writer is capable of delineating the duality system on their own.

In any case, I would like to express gratitude to @SweetDao for their candor and for sharing scans as well as the contextual plot. Is there a blog or terminology webpage for this universe that elucidates on the concept of “Essence”? I ask because the term appears to be frequently employed to denote phenomena that transcend the realms of natural law and magic, which would classify the character Aca as a type 4.

The first part of that blog, if still relevant and correct, covers it : https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Planck69/Nature_of_Dao_Essence

 

[ImmortalDread]

Is it outdated?

 

[SweetDao]

Is it outdated?

This is not for me to say since I've not read the most recent novels. But if I can give my opinion, I would say it's fine and still relevant, I doubt the author suddenly changed everything regarding Essence.

 

[Reiner04]

The first part of that blog, if still relevant and correct, covers it : https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Planck69/Nature_of_Dao_Essence

It's @Planck69 ?

 

[ImmortalDread]

Yes, he is a supporter of verse.

 

[Malekith]

Is it outdated?

Technically it's up to date, I'm not reading the most recent novel, but I believe that ergen wouldn't change the composition of everything, after 4 books already written and sharing universes. Plank and Zara have projects to rework the verse as mentioned in another post about the Ergenverse that is happening. Anyway the relevant information is in that sandbox from what I read above

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

O god.
The point of these duality is pretty simple.
Refer tomy post in the first page.

@Rakih_Elyan Tone down the attitude, trying to yell at people and cursing them out isn’t helping your side to convince others. If you keep this up you will be reported.

@Qawsedf234 Can I ask what part of the scans imply there’s some dual nature going on? Because a lot of the statements sound more like the Essence existed before anything was created and it decided to create everything in existence as opposed to there being dual nature stuff involved.

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

One who transcends essence will naturally gain Transduality as the essence "Has no form or shape" This is literal Non Existence, and "creates and contains all forms and shapes" is literal existence.

"Non existence" with "Existence" are literally a duality.

"Beginning" and "end" are literal dualities, and then there "non-beginning" and "non-end" is other dualities for Beginning and End themselves.

All of these are literal duality of "Non-Being" and "Being"
"Non-Spatial" and "Spatial" is a duality.
"Non-Time" and "Time" are duality.
"Noiseless" with "Noise" and "Lightless" with "Light" is a literal duality.
"Non-Places" and "Contain all places" is duality.
Essence is a fundamental building of realities, so it does qualify for TD type 2.

 

[Fixxed]

I am not adding smth, I am going with what the context has provided that in some of the sentences the "outside" is referring to not being that thing. I said being outside of smth can mean that it's not that thing as well, as per context.

Yes outside is not being that thing but not a negation of that thing. Well bruh i know what you mean, but why it cannot otherwise?

Given the arguement you're trying to assert that context here is just that it's all referring to essence being outside of something, can you explain it's "infinitely small and Infinitely large" nature in the outside arguement that you're asserting?

I mean, can you explain this nature with your arguement of "outside"?

Yes exactly

Bruh author make a differenty when explain about the infinitely small and large. From above he always use word "creates and contains" he make different between essence and the thing (Essence is the transcended and the thing is just what come from the essence)

But when it going to infinitely small and large it not use that, he not make different between essence and the "thing" (Essence is infinitely small and also infinitely large, the thing or infinitely large is not what that come from essence but the essence it self)

More support about that is the author make gap when he explain and write the sentences about the infinitely small-large and about "create and contain"

Yeah it when bai spoke his two final sentences

Even more support is his final sentences that say

"Essence is completly unique, and completely boundless"

Is literally explain about what essence it self not what comes from essence

Yeah the infinitely small and large is in different context with sentence above when author explain about the essence

It says it's lightless and light and noiseless and noise as to what it is. Outside stuff is just other way for it to say it's not smth and doesn't really hold water as an argument unless you can explain each line in the "outside" context or else it's just cherry-picking. You can use one line to discredit other particular lines and neglect the lines that cannot be described with this "outside" arguement.

Bruh lightless and blablabla, is just for describe the transcendent of essence over the thing

Yeah other line say "not exist in any one specific place"
It literally explain the transcendent nature of essence over the place
And my argument is not about outside, it just for make it more simple
My argument is essence is not contain thing and it negation, but essence is transcendency of that thing but also contain that thing

 

[Fixxed]

The two duality systems are Type 1 according to the standards. But if these two duality systems are "all dualities" on the plane reality, then that is Type 2. But it would be a powerless Type 2.

Just look at rimuru TD CRT, it not work like that. Just specific duality will not gain you TD 2

 

[Reiner04]

Yes outside is not being that thing but not a negation of that thing. Well bruh i know what you mean, but why it cannot otherwise?


Yes exactly

Bruh author make a differenty when explain about the infinitely small and large. From above he always use word "creates and contains" he make different between essence and the thing (Essence is the transcended and the thing is just what come from the essence)

But when it going to infinitely small and large it not use that, he not make different between essence and the "thing" (Essence is infinitely small and also infinitely large, the thing or infinitely large is not what that come from essence but the essence it self)

More support about that is the author make gap when he explain and write the sentences about the infinitely small-large and about "create and contain"

Yeah it when bai spoke his two final sentences

Even more support is his final sentences that say

Is literally explain about what essence it self not what comes from essence

Yeah the infinitely small and large is in different context with sentence above when author explain about the essence

Bruh lightless and blablabla, is just for describe the transcendent of essence over the thing

Yeah other line say "not exist in any one specific place"
It literally explain the transcendent nature of essence over the place
And my argument is not about outside, it just for make it more simple
My argument is essence is not contain thing and it negation, but essence is transcendency of that thing but also contain that thing

I see it being duality more reasonable than "being transcendent" and "contain it" relationship arguement.

Authors don't have to write literal Definition from our vsbw pages, context and all is enough for it.

Also, what would be duality for "infinitely large" if I may ask?

 

[Fixxed]

I see it being duality more reasonable than "being transcendent" and "contain it" relationship arguement.

Authors don't have to write literal Definition from our vsbw pages, context and all is enough for it.

Also, what would be duality for "infinitely large" if I may ask?

Well from what i see, its not

Yes of course

By default its not-infinitely large, infinitely small of course can be if you have context for prove that. And if the verse is literally say dark or sun or everything is duality of infinitely large then it is duality of that

 

[Reiner04]

By default its not-infinitely large, infinitely small of course can be if you have context for prove that. And if the verse is literally say dark or sun or everything is duality of infinitely large then it is duality of that

I actually asked what it is meant to be "Dual", are fictional series supposed to copy paste our wiki pages in order to explain that this relationship is Duality? What is Duality for "infinitely large"? What explanation is there for Duality for "infinitely large" for a verse to make it?

 

[Fixxed]

I actually asked what it is meant to be "Dual", are fictional series supposed to copy paste our wiki pages in order to explain that this relationship is Duality? What is Duality for "infinitely large"? What explanation is there for Duality for "infinitely large" for a verse to make it?

You just ask for the duality of infinitely large

No

I already answer that

CONTEXT. If it clear mention the word duality then it is duality
Other example is mention about coin, because even if not-A is contradict A it still one system of A(A). Head contradict tail but still in a coin

 

[Reiner04]

You just ask for the duality of infinitely large

The essence of the question was same, I broke it down to ask it even in more simpler manner.

No

I already answer that

CONTEXT. If it clear mention the word duality then it is duality

Duality is just logical contradiction, also a mention of "word" doesn't makes anything clearer than context and explaination.

If smth is A and being not- A contradicts it being A logically rather than being smth else, then it's Duality.

Being Infinitely large and infinitely small, noiseless and all noise, being everywhere and nowhere, being in all time and not being in any time.

It's all just falls under the relationship of A where it's other state contradicts it first state of A in the sense of being related to A, nothing else unlike Fire and Water (they both are different concepts and not related to each other or logical contradiction in relation to one thing)

 

[Fixxed]

The essence of the question was same, I broke it down to ask it even in more simpler manner.

Dont think ask for dual of "infinitely large" is same as meant for to be dual

Duality is just logical contradiction, also a mention of "word" doesn't makes anything clearer than context and explaination.

If smth is A and being not- A contradicts it being A logically rather than being smth else, then it's Duality.

Being Infinitely large and infinitely small, noiseless and all noise, being everywhere and nowhere, being in all time and not being in any time.

It's all just falls under the relationship of A where it's other state contradicts it first state of A in the sense of being related to A, nothing else unlike Fire and Water (they both are different concepts and not related to each other or logical contradiction in relation to one thing)

By default we not take something that just contradict as duality. It make everything clear, if you mention about word duality then it duality you not have to brought other context

Yes of course

My bruh.... i already explain about that above. Even the noisless or no form or no beginning or end in the context of scan is not in the same system with the sound form and beginning or end. The no "...." is use by author for describe what the essence it self, thats why he use "essence is..., essence has... ..."
And the rest or the thing is being desribe as just what that being "creates and contains..." by the essence not what the essence it self

The no "...." in here is not negation of the thing but transcendention of the thing

I dont know why you explain it

 

[ImmortalDread]

Can u guys stop arguing? All this does not matter

 

[SweetDao]

I frankly don't even understand the current debate...

 

[Reiner04]

Considering verse will be revised by plancks and others and there is nothing new to add on, I'll ask for it's closure.

 

[Fixxed]

Considering verse will be revised by plancks and others and there is nothing new to add on, I'll ask for it's closure.

No, just add what @Qawsedf234 agree with. He agree with acausality so i think add that

 

[ImmortalDread]

Aca type 4 looks good

 

[Reiner04]

If Qawsed agreed with it then, it can be applied (if the profiles lacks them). Who gonna do it anyway? Which profile (s) are affected?

 

[SweetDao]

May I try to make one last argument for the possible TD or is it better if I don't?

 

[Reiner04]

May I try to make one last argument for the possible TD or is it better if I don't?

You should imo. Things better off done than left unverified.

 

[SweetDao]

Well, it will be a bit long, and I apologize for that.

First, I'll quote the blog of Planck which states the following: "Essence. The foundation of all external matters..." alongside that quote "The origin and source of all things is Essence!!"

The Essence by itself is the framework of everything that exists (be it elements or more conceptual things), which was something everyone understood I think.

Secondly, I'll quote those two passages from ISSTH : Here (both are on the same link)

Here, we understand that Essence is the Dao. This means that every Dao, by definition, is Essence. Therefore the Dao of light for example is simply the Essence of Light.

Now it is very simple, if we accept every Dao as being its very own Essence, it means we can accept the Essence of the Yin-Yang to exist too. There is no further explanation to my knowledge about the properties of said Yin-Yang besides being, obviously, opposite forces (like female/male for example).

Therefore, if there is an Essence of Yin-Yang existing, Daosource cultivators transcend it obviously and operate on either none of the duality implied by the Essence itself (which would grant TD I assume?) or their very own essence operates on a completely different and superior duality system of the "normal reality", which may grant TD too? I don't really know tbf.

 

[Fixxed]

it means we can accept the Essence of the Yin-Yang to exist too

Well essence is concept from what i see, if dao is essence, and there are exist dao of yin and yang that mean concept yin and yang or yeah concept of duality

The duality is fine then. If character being immune or qualitative superior to it then TD 2 is fine

Of course if there are no context that being anti-feats of that

 

[ImmortalDread]

why TD type 2?

 

[Reiner04]

Well, it will be a bit long, and I apologize for that.

First, I'll quote the blog of Planck which states the following: "Essence. The foundation of all external matters..." alongside that quote "The origin and source of all things is Essence!!"

The Essence by itself is the framework of everything that exists (be it elements or more conceptual things), which was something everyone understood I think.

Secondly, I'll quote those two passages from ISSTH : Here (both are on the same link)

Here, we understand that Essence is the Dao. This means that every Dao, by definition, is Essence. Therefore the Dao of light for example is simply the Essence of Light.

Now it is very simple, if we accept every Dao as being its very own Essence, it means we can accept the Essence of the Yin-Yang to exist too. There is no further explanation to my knowledge about the properties of said Yin-Yang besides being, obviously, opposite forces (like female/male for example).

Therefore, if there is an Essence of Yin-Yang existing, Daosource cultivators transcend it obviously and operate on either none of the duality implied by the Essence itself (which would grant TD I assume?) or their very own essence operates on a completely different and superior duality system of the "normal reality", which may grant TD too? I don't really know tbf.

Snip.

Can you take a look at it?

 

[Qawsedf234]

their very own essence operates on a completely different and superior duality system of the "normal reality", which may grant TD too? I don't really know tbf.

They have their own personal Essence, which separates them from reality Essence. The issue is that they're still bound by a personalized duality, when TD means the person is outside or beyond every dual system in the work.

This 100% gives them special forms of Acasuality, but not TD.

 

[SweetDao]

They have their own personal Essence, which separates them from reality Essence. The issue is that they're still bound by a personalized duality, when TD means the person is outside or beyond every dual system in the work.

This 100% gives them special forms of Acasuality, but not TD.

Wouldn't the lack of Yin-Yang Essence inside their personal Essence be fitting for TD? Meng Hao transcended using his own hexes that transformed into essences, which doesn't include the duality of the Yin-Yang.

Here. For the list of the Hexes/Essences, here.

 

[Fixxed]

why TD type 2?

Immunity to concept of duality, that mean general dual system not just specific

 

[Georredannea15]

Just look at rimuru TD CRT, it not work like that. Just specific duality will not gain you TD 2

A certain "single" duality. This is not what I'm talking about. If these "certain" dualities are all dualities on the reality plane, this is TD2. There may be 2 or 3 dualities on the plane of reality, and transcending this is TD2. But a weak TD2.