Four Shades Boundary/Conceptual Manipulation

[MSahla]

Bumping

 

[MSahla]

Bump..

 

[MSahla]

I'll give my input on this after next patch goes live, pretty sure there's a huge lore update regarding shades.

It's time, now that 6.5 is live.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Both sides tell conflicting stories and I know nothing about the verse, so I'll see what Twilight has to say first.

 

[TWILIGHT-OP]

It's time, now that 6.5 is live.

The new quest doesn’t really add anything substantial here. This still wouldn’t qualify as Type 2, the statement implies the world already existed before these concepts were introduced, so Life, Death, Time, and Space were imposed onto an existing reality rather than being inherent to it. That places them as structural laws of the world, not fundamental, independent concepts that existence itself depends on, which is what Type 2 requires.

 

[Furina003]

The new quest doesn’t really add anything substantial here. This still wouldn’t qualify as Type 2, the statement implies the world already existed before these concepts were introduced, so Life, Death, Time, and Space were imposed onto an existing reality rather than being inherent to it. That places them as structural laws of the world, not fundamental, independent concepts that existence itself depends on, which is what Type 2 requires.

Isn't this a bit contradictory to what the OP explained? The OP doesn't even deny that these concepts have existed for a long time, but what needs to be emphasized is the fact that these concepts have not been differentiated. So, the manipulation of concepts here is not creating new concepts, but transforming them into a clear, distinguishable essence.

So, the main achievement is not creating concepts but changing the essence of the concept itself.

Yeah, i think.
That boundary manipulation can ultimately develop into conceptual manipulation, because boundaries themselves depend on definitions that separate one thing from another.

As a simple analogy,
we recognize an apple as an “apple” because there is an essence defined as an apple. This definition creates a boundary that distinguishes the essential nature of an apple from other fruits. Without such boundaries, objects would be difficult to differentiate, as they would lack clear identity.

This concept can be applied to the condition of Teyvat.
Before the arrival of Phanes, there was no clear separation between fundamental aspects such as life, death, space, and time. Everything existed in an undefined state, lacking essential distinctions.

As illustrated in the Nod-Krai trailer, life and death had no boundaries, meaning they flowed as a single unified state. In that era, the will of existence itself was not bound by any structure, allowing it to flow freely.
Because of the absence of boundaries, the old world order cannot be directly compared to the world after Phanes’ intervention. The two are fundamentally different. This aligns with Nicole’s statement that the world has changed at its most fundamental level.

When Phanes defined these boundaries, the structure of reality as it is known today was established. Life, death, space, and time became distinct entities because each was given a defined essence. In other words, modern Teyvat is built upon conceptual differentiation that previously did not exist.

Therefore, I tend to classify this phenomenon as Type 1 conceptual manipulation, because what is being manipulated is not merely the manifestation or effects of concepts, but the essence of the concepts themselves, namely, the definitions that determine their distinctions.

Yeah, that’s all I understand for now. I won’t add anything further. let the staff evaluate this crt

 

[MSahla]

So, before replying to specifict quote of yours, i honestly don't even know what you mean. With all respect.

the statement implies the world already existed before these concepts were introduced,

Idk what you meant here. Mind clarify it for me?
But, the presence of a prior "world" doesn’t mean anything, like really. As i have provided in OP, that the Heavenly Principles have shattered the old laws and changed the world down to its very foundation.

so Life, Death, Time, and Space were imposed onto an existing reality rather than being inherent to it.

If the old world of Dragon King Nibelung's era truly lacked Time, Space, Life, and Death, then that "existing reality" was not a fully defined or functional reality, but an incomplete, pre-conceptual state.

That places them as structural laws of the world, not fundamental, independent concepts that existence itself depends on, which is what Type 2 requires.

It does fundamental, like even Fate is one of the most fundamental rules of the world.

 

[MSahla]

Oh yeah, if it's not qualified for Type 2, i'm fine with type 1.

(Bruh what am i saying before)

 

[TWILIGHT-OP]

Isn't this a bit contradictory to what the OP explained? The OP doesn't even deny that these concepts have existed for a long time, but what needs to be emphasized is the fact that these concepts have not been differentiated. So, the manipulation of concepts here is not creating new concepts, but transforming them into a clear, distinguishable essence.

So, the main achievement is not creating concepts but changing the essence of the concept itself.

So, before replying to specifict quote of yours, i honestly don't even know what you mean. With all respect.


Idk what you meant here. Mind clarify it for me?
But, the presence of a prior "world" doesn’t mean anything, like really. As i have provided in OP, that the Heavenly Principles have shattered the old laws and changed the world down to its very foundation.


If the old world of Dragon King Nibelung's era truly lacked Time, Space, Life, and Death, then that "existing reality" was not a fully defined or functional reality, but an incomplete, pre-conceptual state.


It does fundamental, like even Fate is one of the most fundamental rules of the world.

I think the misunderstanding is coming from how we’re interpreting “existing reality.”
My point isn’t that the old world was fully structured like the current one, but that something was already there prior to these concepts being defined. Even if it was incomplete or undifferentiated, it still counts as a form of existence.

If reality can exist in any state before Life, Death, Time, and Space are clearly defined, then those concepts aren’t being shown as things that existence fundamentally depends on. Instead, they’re being introduced as part of a system that organizes and stabilizes that reality.

So even if the world was “pre-conceptual” or incomplete, the fact it existed at all before those distinctions were established still suggests these concepts are not inherent, independent foundations of existence itself.

@Reiner04, @Vietthai96 could you guys look at this thread plz.

 

[Furina003]

I think the misunderstanding is coming from how we’re interpreting “existing reality.”
My point isn’t that the old world was fully structured like the current one, but that something was already there prior to these concepts being defined. Even if it was incomplete or undifferentiated, it still counts as a form of existence.

If reality can exist in any state before Life, Death, Time, and Space are clearly defined, then those concepts aren’t being shown as things that existence fundamentally depends on. Instead, they’re being introduced as part of a system that organizes and stabilizes that reality.

So even if the world was “pre-conceptual” or incomplete, the fact it existed at all before those distinctions were established still suggests these concepts are not inherent, independent foundations of existence itself.

@Reiner04, @Vietthai96 could you guys look at this thread plz.

I mean, isn't this the essence of scaling? These concepts already existed, but they hadn't been differentiated. In other words, the world wasn't differentiated at that time. That's why the moon goddess is described as having no life or death, and time hadn't yet begun in the world of the dragons.

So, I mean, at that time, the world was in a state of nonduality, or unstructured emptiness, and so on, until these concepts were separated. This is even explained in this text, that everything in the universe was originally a single entity.

Regardless of all that, we can't ignore the fact that in its current state, these concepts are the foundation that supports reality.

Doesn't this meet the standard for a dependent concept? Or a Type 2 concept?

Dottore even explicitly explains here that these concepts are the foundation of reality.

Let's assume you're right that during the Moon Goddess era, concepts like life, death, space, and time weren't yet fundamental. However, this was because these concepts lacked clear definitions at the time.

Therefore, we cannot ignore the fact that in the "current" state, these concepts have become the fundamental foundations that support reality.

This is where the Shades play a crucial role. They manipulate these concepts by changing their essence from something that initially lacked identity due to its lack of definition, into a clear, structured concept that serves as the foundation of reality itself.

Yeah this last, I have conveyed everything I know

 

[Voidnether]

I mean, isn't this the essence of scaling? These concepts already existed, but they hadn't been differentiated. In other words, the world wasn't differentiated at that time. That's why the moon goddess is described as having no life or death, and time hadn't yet begun in the world of the dragons.

So, I mean, at that time, the world was in a state of nonduality, or unstructured emptiness, and so on, until these concepts were separated. This is even explained in this text, that everything in the universe was originally a single entity.

Regardless of all that, we can't ignore the fact that in its current state, these concepts are the foundation that supports reality.

Doesn't this meet the standard for a dependent concept? Or a Type 2 concept?

Dottore even explicitly explains here that these concepts are the foundation of reality.

Let's assume you're right that during the Moon Goddess era, concepts like life, death, space, and time weren't yet fundamental. However, this was because these concepts lacked clear definitions at the time.

Therefore, we cannot ignore the fact that in the "current" state, these concepts have become the fundamental foundations that support reality.

This is where the Shades play a crucial role. They manipulate these concepts by changing their essence from something that initially lacked identity due to its lack of definition, into a clear, structured concept that serves as the foundation of reality itself.

Yeah this last, I have conveyed everything I know

Anyone could look at said "concept" scans and realize concept isn't even mentioned so like what are we arguing

Oh yeah, if it's not qualified for Type 2, i'm fine with type 1.

No, those aspects are not independent

 

[Furina003]

Anyone could look at said "concept" scans and realize concept isn't even mentioned so like what are we arguing

No, those aspects are not independent

1. concepts don't have to be called concepts; descriptions and ideas are also considered concepts.

2. open the scan I provided. It's clear that the traveler called it the concept of time and went on to explain the other four.

3. Type 2 concept does not have to be independent

 

[Voidnether]

1. concepts don't have to be called concepts; descriptions and ideas are also considered concepts.

2. open the scan I provided. It's clear that the traveler called it the concept of time and went on to explain the other four.

3. Type 2 concept does not have to be independent

Traveler doesn't say it though in all the scans?

 

[Vietthai96]

@Reiner04, @Vietthai96 could you guys look at this thread plz.

Looks like i'm not playing Hoyoverse games, it is the Hoyoverse games playing me instead

Anyway, holy wall of text, but tbh i don't see CM here, all these feats and statements can well fit under the umbrella of Law Manipulation

We also knows that those Life, Death, Space, Time was already exist before the arrival of Heavenly Principle and the Shades, and they just kind of replacing the position of Moon Goddesses in the controls of those aspects. These "concepts" was already exist before, so you gonna need more than what the OP presented to get CM

About the conceptual network, it is a separate thing altogether, idk why it is slapped together to prove CM for Life, Death, Space and Time

 

[TWILIGHT-OP]

Looks like i'm not playing Hoyoverse games, it is the Hoyoverse games playing me instead

Law Manipulation

I was thinking of it as well. But I had some doubts, so didn't say.

 

[Furina003]

Looks like i'm not playing Hoyoverse games, it is the Hoyoverse games playing me instead

Anyway, holy wall of text, but tbh i don't see CM here, all these feats and statements can well fit under the umbrella of Law Manipulation

We also knows that those Life, Death, Space, Time was already exist before the arrival of Heavenly Principle and the Shades, and they just kind of replacing the position of Moon Goddesses in the controls of those aspects. These "concepts" was already exist before, so you gonna need more than what the OP presented to get CM

About the conceptual network, it is a separate thing altogether, idk why it is slapped together to prove CM for Life, Death, Space and Time

The core point of scaling isn't whether concepts existed in the past, but rather how concepts are separated/transformed, delimited, and described.

I'm even confused about how to change the essence of a concept without it becoming a manipulation of the concept.

I mean, isn't this the essence of scaling? These concepts already existed, but they hadn't been differentiated. In other words, the world wasn't differentiated at that time. That's why the moon goddess is described as having no life or death, and time hadn't yet begun in the world of the dragons.

So, I mean, at that time, the world was in a state of nonduality, or unstructured emptiness, and so on, until these concepts were separated. This is even explained in this text, that everything in the universe was originally a single entity.

Regardless of all that, we can't ignore the fact that in its current state, these concepts are the foundation that supports reality.

Doesn't this meet the standard for a dependent concept? Or a Type 2 concept?

Dottore even explicitly explains here that these concepts are the foundation of reality.

Let's assume you're right that during the Moon Goddess era, concepts like life, death, space, and time weren't yet fundamental. However, this was because these concepts lacked clear definitions at the time.

Therefore, we cannot ignore the fact that in the "current" state, these concepts have become the fundamental foundations that support reality.

This is where the Shades play a crucial role. They manipulate these concepts by changing their essence from something that initially lacked identity due to its lack of definition, into a clear, structured concept that serves as the foundation of reality itself.

Yeah this last, I have conveyed everything I know

 

[Vietthai96]

I mean, isn't this the essence of scaling? These concepts already existed, but they hadn't been differentiated. In other words, the world wasn't differentiated at that time. That's why the moon goddess is described as having no life or death, and time hadn't yet begun in the world of the dragons.

The lack of context is so bad that i can't see this help, this looks like nomalism instead, and that in the old day they perceives these differently. This could probably help CM argument, but the lack of context doesn't help either

So, I mean, at that time, the world was in a state of nonduality, or unstructured emptiness, and so on, until these concepts were separated. This is even explained in this text, that everything in the universe was originally a single entity.

The universe comes from a single source

Somehow a simple text like this get extrapolated. So i guess our real life Big Bang is nondual, cause the universe came from its, a singularity where all things is

Regardless of all that, we can't ignore the fact that in its current state, these concepts are the foundation that supports reality.

Dottore even explicitly explains here that these concepts are the foundation of reality.

So to law are also foundation of reality, or do you want to say that space-time is concept as well? Cause it is kind of a foundation of our real life universe

The core point of scaling isn't whether concepts existed in the past, but rather how concepts are separated/transformed, delimited, and described

Other than the part about life and death which could probably help, the lack context doesn't help either, the verse need to establish that what "life and death is no difference" means here, also it applies to Moon Goddesses which also doesn't help either, because Moon Goddesses governs those two things so to them life and death aren't different

I'm even confused about how to change the essence of a concept without it becoming a manipulation of the concept.

You can't change the essence of concept bruhh because concept is deeper than essence, concept is the quality of things, it is what make them to be them, concept shapes things, define things and governs over those things

 

[MSahla]

Anyone could look at said "concept" scans and realize concept isn't even mentioned so like what are we arguing

It does, and it don't need to be repeatedly mentioned. That's just a thirst for validation.

We also knows that those Life, Death, Space, Time was already exist before the arrival of Heavenly Principle and the Shades, and they just kind of replacing the position of Moon Goddesses in the controls of those aspects. These "concepts" was already exist before, so you gonna need more than what the OP presented to get CM

I don't think you get it here and they're not merely "replacing the moon goddesses". In fact, i did not even mentioned the Moon Goddesses whatsoever. So.. I assume you're being flashback about the old CRTs?

The Four Shades and the Heavenly Principles literally changed the essence of four of those concepts, and the fact that these four things would eventually depend on their authority in order to function, so i don't even get why is that not conceptual level of manipulation.

Even if entities like the Moon Goddesses previously "governed" Life, Death, Time, and Space, that only proves those aspects were unstructured or undefined, not that they existed as fixed fundamental concepts. The lore explicitly states there were no clear boundaries (no distinction between life and death and etc), meaning the Heavenly Principles and the Shades didn’t just replace rulers, they established and defined those domains as concrete universal laws, which is qualitatively different from mere succession of control. Please don't ever think that Moon Goddesses governing are comparable to the Four Shades and Heavenly Principles, cause they're fundamentally very different.

About the conceptual network, it is a separate thing altogether, idk why it is slapped together to prove CM for Life, Death, Space and Time

Because that's one of the things established by the Heavenly Principles to protect the world as well.

 

[MSahla]

My point isn’t that the old world was fully structured like the current one, but that something was already there prior to these concepts being defined. Even if it was incomplete or undifferentiated, it still counts as a form of existence.

Because without distinction or definitional boundaries, those concepts do not meaningfully exist as concepts, only as a vague, unstructured state that lacks the very properties needed to qualify as them.

If reality can exist in any state before Life, Death, Time, and Space are clearly defined, then those concepts aren’t being shown as things that existence fundamentally depends on. Instead, they’re being introduced as part of a system that organizes and stabilizes that reality.

The Heavenly Principles aren’t just organizing something complete, they’re establishing the very conditions required for reality to properly exist as a structured system.

So even if the world was “pre-conceptual” or incomplete, the fact it existed at all before those distinctions were established still suggests these concepts are not inherent, independent foundations of existence itself.

Think of it like this:
Before rules exist, things can still “exist,” but they don’t work in any clear or stable way. No real separation, no consistency, no proper structure. That’s not a fully functioning reality, it’s more like a raw, incomplete version of one.

So, i am very sure at that time they don't even know what is Life, Death, Time and Space whatsoever, cause for the entities like the Moon Sisters, "Life" and "Death" are not different, just as Sandrone said before. Why? Because those things are not yet differentiated and defined.

 

[TWILIGHT-OP]

concept is deeper than essence

Kinda opposite tho.
Essence = what something is at its core (its fundamental nature)
Concept = how we define, categorize, or understand that thing in our mind.

I'll reply to @Sahlwrld later, quiet busy in some work.

 

[Grabbing_dragon]

Kinda opposite tho.
Essence = what something is at its core (its fundamental nature)
Concept = how we define, categorize, or understand that thing in our mind.

Facts and concepts don’t equal essence by default, even if they meet the standards of being independent of the mind and of making the existence of something possible and sustaining it, meeting the standard on the CM page.

 

[MSahla]

the verse need to establish that what "life and death is no difference" means here

About that.

Life and death, for the moon sisters, are merely a cycle, not a direct manipulation of life and death. Because life and death didn't have boundaries during the time of the three moon goddesses. They couldn't determine life and death.

For example, if A dies, the moon goddess's job is only to guide them after death. Similarly, when they are alive, the three moon goddesses only assist them while they are alive. This is what Alice means, the cycle of life and death/ebb and flow.

The silvery vessel patrolled between mountains and seas at the moment when day and night intertwined.
In the age when the pulse of the earth's bones had not yet yielded to the heavens, the vessel guided the souls of the untainted,
Ferrying them across the corrupted mortal realm and the frigid atmosphere to rest in peace on the dark side of the moon, hidden from view.
Yet, it could not draw the gaze of the three mistresses of the golden hall to meet the eyes of the children of humankind.

(Sc: Nocturne's Curtain Call)

 

[MSahla]

About that.

Life and death, for the moon sisters, are merely a cycle, not a direct manipulation of life and death. Because life and death didn't have boundaries during the time of the three moon goddesses. They couldn't determine life and death.

For example, if A dies, the moon goddess's job is only to guide them after death. Similarly, when they are alive, the three moon goddesses only assist them while they are alive. This is what Alice means, the cycle of life and death/ebb and flow.

(Sc: Nocturne's Curtain Call)

The recent new world quest also mentioned this actually, but i forgot where did they say it again. I have to find it.

 

[Vietthai96]

About that.

Life and death, for the moon sisters, are merely a cycle, not a direct manipulation of life and death. Because life and death didn't have boundaries during the time of the three moon goddesses. They couldn't determine life and death.

For example, if A dies, the moon goddess's job is only to guide them after death. Similarly, when they are alive, the three moon goddesses only assist them while they are alive. This is what Alice means, the cycle of life and death/ebb and flow.

(Sc: Nocturne's Curtain Call)

yeah, nothing conceptual about this

 

[MSahla]

yeah, nothing conceptual about this

??
I'm not even trying to say "Life and Death are no different = Conceptual." You asked the meaning of it.

 

[TWILIGHT-OP]

Your argument relies on redefining existence to exclude any unstructured state, and then using that to claim these concepts are necessary for existence. But the fact remains that something existed prior to their definition, which contradicts the requirement for Type 2. You can put me on disagree for what I can see it's not anywhere near cm 2.

 

[MSahla]

Your argument relies on redefining existence to exclude any unstructured state, and then using that to claim these concepts are necessary for existence.

Of course it is VERY necessary for existence, cause how can the Human Realm live without Life, Death, Time and Space? That's just an obvious thing and shouldn't even a question, brother..

 

[Mbpoops]

Or maybe these concepts did exist before the shades and the shades can just changes the laws of and differentiate these concepts from one another

 

[TWILIGHT-OP]

Vietthai already stated this, and i also agree with it being some sorta law manipulation.

 

[MSahla]

The Law Manipulation is when they established these concepts as the rules for existence, hence why it's mentioned that the concept of time is one of the rules of the world. Yet when they defining the essence of these concepts, that's not Law Manipulation, that's just a conceptual-level of manipulation cause they can affect these four things at its conceptual-level by changing the definition and distinguish them from each other, and so therefore these four concepts function as ordered by their authorities.

 

[Voidnether]

The Law Manipulation is when they established these concepts as the rules for existence, hence why it's mentioned that the concept of time is one of the rules of the world. Yet when they defining the essence of these concepts, that's not Law Manipulation, that's just a conceptual-level of manipulation cause they can affect these four things at its conceptual-level by changing the definition and distinguish them from each other, and so therefore these four concepts function as ordered by their authorities.

It literally still talks about the concept of time as a direction of time like my previous thread with Wenut where this is just nominalism

 

[Mbpoops]

i guess columbina has cm2 now lol

 

[AsterReal]

i guess columbina has cm2 now lol

Columbina’s powers are not on a par with those of the Four Shades for that to be true.

 

[MSahla]

i guess columbina has cm2 now lol

But this is just for the four shades and Heavenly Principles? Lol.
Don't ever think Columbina can be on the same level as the Four Shades btw, cause Columbina can't even reach them.

 

[MSahla]

It literally still talks about the concept of time as a direction of time like my previous thread with Wenut where this is just nominalism

No

 

[Grabbing_dragon]

Of course it is VERY necessary for existence, cause how can the Human Realm live without Life, Death, Time and Space? That's just an obvious thing and shouldn't even a question, brother..

They are necessary for reality in a sense that doesn’t qualify as CM2, as the way they are necessary is that without them, reality wouldn’t function the way that it does (laws of reality). For concepts of reality, like everyone has said, the fact that there is still existence before them is an anti-feat, as without concepts of existence, nothing should exist in the sense there would be nothingness instead of an existing state, such an undifferentiated whole.

 

[Furina003]

The lack of context is so bad that i can't see this help, this looks like nomalism instead, and that in the old day they perceives these differently. This could probably help CM argument, but the lack of context doesn't help either

How do we view this nominalism, when it repeatedly supports reality?
Because reality is fundamentally derived from absolute nihilism, which is why it is said that the entire universe was originally a single entity.

Somehow a simple text like this get extrapolated. So i guess our real life Big Bang is nondual, cause the universe came from its, a singularity where all things is

actually this is talking about metaphysics, because everything at that time had no meaning because the boundaries had not been defined. even laws and boundries are completely differentiated here

So to law are also foundation of reality, or do you want to say that space-time is concept as well? Cause it is kind of a foundation of our real life universe

Yeah, laws are fundamental aspects. but I’m asking you, can laws define the boundries of a metaphysical aspect? Laws only establish the rules. For example, the law of death does it define death itself? Clearly not. The law of death only governs the cycle or various things related to death. it doesn’t actually define what death is.

Other than the part about life and death which could probably help, the lack context doesn't help either, the verse need to establish that what "life and death is no difference" means here, also it applies to Moon Goddesses which also doesn't help either, because Moon Goddesses governs those two things so to them life and death aren't different

It does not have a difference in the sense of nonduality, these two metaphysical aspects are still in an undifferentiated state.
That is why, for the Moon Goddesses, there is no distinction between life and death.

You can't change the essence of concept bruhh because concept is deeper than essence, concept is the quality of things, it is what make them to be them, concept shapes things, define things and governs over those things

What I mean here is that they transformed those aspects from something undefined into something defined.
For example, why do we know that death is death? Yeah, it’s because there is a definition of death. So how could we distinguish between life and death if life and death themselves were not yet defined? There would be no boundary between the two. This is the concept that was altered by the heavenly gods, something undifferentiated became something differentiated. That is why there were no boundaries of life in the era of the Three Moon Goddesses, making them exist merely as freely flowing wills, where there was no distinction between life and death for them.

 

[MSahla]

They are necessary for reality in a sense that doesn’t qualify as CM2, as the way they are necessary is that without them, reality wouldn’t function the way that it does (laws of reality). For concepts of reality, like everyone has said, the fact that there is still existence before them is an anti-feat, as without concepts of existence, nothing should exist in the sense there would be nothingness instead of an existing state, such an undifferentiated whole.

But you're assuming that “no concepts = nothingness”, which not that really necessary. A pre-conceptual or undifferentiated state is still a state of existence, just not one divided by distinctions like time, space, or life and death.

 

[Mbpoops]

but the fact still remains that these concepts existed before the shades and are not dependent on their existence to exist. before the shades existed, time progressed, life was born, people died, and space seperated everything. there hasnt been a scan saying the concepts didnt exist before the shades or else no one would live, die, nothing would progress, and everything would be a jumbled mess without space seperating things

 

[Furina003]

How do we view this nominalism, when it repeatedly supports reality?
Because reality is fundamentally derived from absolute nihilism, which is why it is said that the entire universe was originally a single entity.

actually this is talking about metaphysics, because everything at that time had no meaning because the boundaries had not been defined. even laws and boundries are completely differentiated here

Yeah, laws are fundamental aspects. but I’m asking you, can laws define the boundries of a metaphysical aspect? Laws only establish the rules. For example, the law of death does it define death itself? Clearly not. The law of death only governs the cycle or various things related to death. it doesn’t actually define what death is.

It does not have a difference in the sense of nonduality, these two metaphysical aspects are still in an undifferentiated state.
That is why, for the Moon Goddesses, there is no distinction between life and death.

What I mean here is that they transformed those aspects from something undefined into something defined.
For example, why do we know that death is death? Yeah, it’s because there is a definition of death. So how could we distinguish between life and death if life and death themselves were not yet defined? There would be no boundary between the two. This is the concept that was altered by the heavenly gods, something undifferentiated became something differentiated. That is why there were no boundaries of life in the era of the Three Moon Goddesses, making them exist merely as freely flowing wills, where there was no distinction between life and death for them.

After this, then I leave it to the OP to decide whether to continue this CRT with 2 staff votes against it or close it, pending something clearer in the future