Gen VII Legendaries Upgrade

[The_real_cal_howard]

Sigh... Why couldn't it be a generation with Pokemon I'm invested in to get the good upgrades..?

The Legendaries of Alola (Tapus, Ultra Beasts, Solgaleo, Lunala, and Necrozma) should be upgraded to 4-B. Here's why.

In SM074, we learn that Solgaleo and Lunala helped light up Alola with Ultra Necrozma (and due to the games, we know that Alola is a substitute for the universe, like how Sinnoh is a substitute for the universe when it comes to the Creation Quartet). Now, Ultra Necrozma did do most of the work, as it takes note to say that he was the brightest in the sky, but the two of them do indeed contribute a sizable portion.

We know that base Necrozma absorbed the light of Ultra Megalopolis, a separate universe. And we know that Necrozma uses it as energy. So that's a 4-B feat.

Base Necrozma clashes with Solgaleo or Lunala.

Absorbing a universe's light doesn't help Necrozma gain his true form, but absorbing Solgaleo or Lunala does.

Base Necrozma absorbed the light of Alola before, in the distant past. And even with this energy, and the energy of Solgaleo or Lunala, he was stopped by the Tapus (with help from Sparkling Stones). Keep in mind that Necrozma still has the energy from Ultra Megalopolis.

The Tapus fought Solgaleo or Lunala, and while they lost, one of the Cosmic Duo commended them for their power and gave them their Tapunium Z.

The Tapus fought the Ultra Beasts.

So in conclusion...

Base Necrozma (who should probably be called weakened Necrozma) should be scaled to what Ultra Necrozma is scaled to, for doing the opposite. So the scaling should go:

Tapus < Ultra Beasts < Solgaleo/Lunala < Base Necrozma (who should be 1+ MegaFoe) <<< Dawn Mane/Dusk Wings Necrozma < Tapus (w/ Z Moves) <<<<<<< Ultra Necrozma

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Actually, pretty sure that Necrozma absorbing Alola's light (At least when that happened in USUM) was just over one of the islands, with people describing it as a black cloud over said island.

But as I've said before, I do support everyone being 4-B. Necrozma had to absorb Lunala/Solgaleo's light in order to turn 4-B. It wasn't a fusion thing, given that their lights was its goal.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

It being simply a black cloud over Alola kinda disregards lore (with Necrozma absorbing light & the secret texts in Maile Librare), the fate of Ultra Megalopolis, and the animation of Light That Burns the Sky.

And you are right about Necrozma needing to absorb Lunala/Solgaleo's light. He drained the light of universes before, and it wasn't enough to get him out of his weakened state.

 

[TriforcePower1]

Didn't the Tapus fight Dawn Mane/ Dusk Wings Necrozma? Then Solgaleo/Lunala gave them the Z stone power as a sign of gratitude. Or maybe it was all a theory I watched some time ago? I don't remember.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

[DOUBT]

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.......Neutral on this.

 

[The_Everlasting]

@Dragon

You pass out on that h key? Lol.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

On one hand, it makes sense.

On the other.............it makes sense.

4-B seems okay IF everything you said is correct.

 

[DMB_1]

This kind of reminds me of the Creation Trio possibly being 2-A: yeah, it's a possibility, but not really enough evidence.

Besides, they only seem to have this property when they are combined, not by their own

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Hmm. Looks reasonable.

I'm for it, but would like to see what else is said.

Also shoot, I need to catch up with the anime now

 

[Dziga]

I agree with the upgrades.

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

I agree with this.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

But wait, if the Ultra Beasts DO become 4-B, that'll mean Perfect Zygarde will also become 4-B yes?

Unless did we decide not to scale Zygarde to the UB's until something more solid came about?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

No. It was the other way around.

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

The notion was that if the Ultra Beasts got upgraded, so would Zygarde, based off of the fact that he traveled to Alola with the intent to fight the Ultra Beasts, and if he were entirely incompetent and incapable, he just wouldn't have gone in the first place.

But, I digress.

 

[Dark649]

Azathoth told me two or three times that he disagreed with this, so its better to ask him again if his opinion changed or is the same about this.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

In SM074, we learn that Solgaleo and Lunala helped light up Alola with Ultra Necrozma (and due to the games, we know that Alola is a substitute for the universe, like how Sinnoh is a substitute for the universe when it comes to the Creation Quartet).

I can't agree with the premise, here. "Sinnoh" is just used to mean "Sinnoh" in pretty much every legend of the region. Mentions of "the world", "the universe", and "space and time" are what make it clear that an entire universe is being referred to, which is backed up through other sources. We have no evidence "Solgaleo and Lunala helped light up Alola with Ultra Necrozma" = "Solgaleo and Lunala lit up the universe", which would also seem weird considering the normal Pokemon universe has pretty clear sources of light in space, whereas this doesn't seem to be the case for Ultra Space.

On top of this, Necrozma fusing with Solgaleo or Lunala to become Tier 4 does not mean either of them are alone are Tier 4. This would make the logic "Solgaleo and Lunala are Tier 4 due to scaling to Ultra Necrozma, who needed them to become Tier 4, after stomping them in its restricted form". Necrozma needed Solgaleo/Lunala specifically because they provided it with a constant source of light, which is the thing it runs on and constantly expels.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Your second paragraph missed the point. I'm aware that fusing with them to become tier 4 isn't a feat for Solgaleo and Lunala. What is a feat is Necrozma absorbing the light of Ultra Megalopolis, which is the same feat Ultra Necrozma is scaled to in reverse, and it doesn't help his case, but absorbing Solgaleo or Lunala does.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Lighting up Ultra Megalopolis isn't a Tier 4 feat. Ultra Megalopolis isn't a universe.

 

[Cropfist]

Then that's a huge problem, because Necrozma is currently solar system for it.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

That reasoning really shouldn't be there, since you're explicitly told by the Ultra Recon Squad that Necrozma provided the light for many other worlds throughout Ultra Space as well, which is what its Tier 4 reasoning should be, if we're going that route.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I'm not asking this out of sarcasm or anything, but actual curiosity. Why are you saying Ultra M isn't a universe? I don't plan to argue for it's validity, mind you. Like I said, I could care less about these Legendaries.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Why are you saying Ultra M isn't a universe?

Because it's literally a city?

It's like me asking why Detroit isn't considered a universe.

Ultra Megalopolis having light spread over its world was never the Tier 4 feat.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I don't see how the 2nd Paragraph isn't a feat for Solgaleo and Lunala. Like Saikou said, both had to be absorbed by Necrozma to become tier 4 in the first place. There's absolutely no way this would be possible if both were tiers and magnitudes lower than Necro. At the bare minimum, they should be both strong enough to equal the power of 4-A, which would be High 5-A, 4-C or 4-B each.

Also, I honestly don't think Necro beating them was a stomp. Both were able to minorly clash with base Necrozma before Necrozma overpowered them. Did Necrozma beat them? Definitely. Was it decisive? Yes. But it wasn't as if they stood absolutely 0 chance. Necrozma only overpowered them for like 10 seconds to then absorb them to become the 2nd form. That's not a stomp. Thats losing because of being weaker and a very arguable point of lacking resistance to Necrozmas possession.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Idc about this anymore. Like I said, I could care less about the Gen VII Legendaries.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Idc about this anymore. Like I said, I could care less about the Gen VII Legendaries.

Cal just loves triggering me.

 

[TriforcePower1]

Fusion doesn't work that way in fiction

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

@Cal

Fite me in pokemon OvO

@Triforce

Yes but that doesn't mean it isn't in this case. I'm not saying both of them each would be 4-A from this, but saying 2 5-Bs powers can equal a power that's tiers above their own is ridiculous.

That said, this isnt up to me. Whatever happens or is decided I'm okay with too.

 

[NeoZex6399]

I'm neutral in this.

But I remember Necrozma created many portals summoning the ultra beasts.
Should Necrozma have Summoning as a ability?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Yes but that doesn't mean it isn't in this case. I'm not saying both of them each would be 4-A from this, but saying 2 5-Bs powers can equal a power that's tiers above their own is ridiculous.

bruh

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

@Kukui I mean....

Base WarGreymo and MetalGarurumo become Omegamo by fusing. Two 3-Cs become a 2-A by fusion. So that's not that strong of an argument as fusion in fiction has shown to be able to make two characters become and extraordinary strong entity.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Friendly reminder that Cell absorbed a bunch of normal humans and yet drastically increased his power.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Piccolo: How? How many people?!

Cell: Enough.

 

[NeoZex6399]

because yes

 

[BruceTheBatman]

Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.......Neutral on this.

 

[Arceus0x]

that would be crazy. i do like the idea tho. imagine how much upgrades would legendaries get! lets imagine this scenario. in a manga for some reason rayquaza fights tapu koko. rayquaza getting a 4-B upgrade would result in a 4-B upgrade for deoxys and then mewtwo. this tiny upgrade thread could turn into sth bigger than the tier revision for mario verse.