God of War CRT: Scales of Olympus

[Planck69]

This is basically the culmination of a day long debate among supporters on Discord that saw no conclusion. Mainly, this goes over the current scaling of the top level Aesir in comparison to the Brother Kings and a rather massive discrepancy over their placings that we need to address.

The Current Status Quo​

As we currently have them, Thor is comparable to Ragnarok Kratos when the latter isn't completely enraged. Whom we have as being comparable to his level of power as of when he sieged Olympus. Odin is superior to him overall (though physically slightly weaker) and Freya is even with Ragnarok Kratos, more or less. The rest of the top level Nordic beings scale to or back-scale from them and End of III Zeus and Kratos are unreachable by them.

Poseidon and Hades are far below them, being that a casual twirl of lighting from Zeus, pre-Summit of Sacrifice was enough to terrify them and Zeus muses that he can kill Hades instantly with a flick of the Blade of Olympus.

The issues:​

The Codex Entry​

Now, a lot of the people following the series have seen this infamous journal entry from entry from Kratos floating around and generally being a cause of much confusion in regard to scaling. As it says, Kratos describes Thor's blows as being "as heavy as any that I have felt". We currently have this mean the gods he's weathered blows from (Ares, Hades, Poseidon) and that it refers to his held back state.

Here's the thing though. As you can see in that very entry, Kratos never actually makes any sort of distinction between the enemies he's faced. While both he and Thor held back in their fight, it wouldn't make any sense for him to make such a comparison if it referred to beings far weaker than his peak self (that wouldn't do him any heavy damage of note), seeing as he'd make light of their strikes. Additionally, neither Ares, Poseidon nor Hades actually physically punch or strike him for this comparison to refer to them anyway. In fact, we do know what powerful beings predominantly use such strikes, Zeus and Hercules.

In fact, we get direct evidence of this with staggering Kratos enough to nullify Valor's healing and knock him down. It's important that absolutely no other attack does this in the entire saga, that being distorting Kratos' raged state.... except of course, Hercules himself.

Not to mention that "prior to obtaining his powerups in God of War III".... is baseless. That statement is as simple as is and rather than the assumption that it refers to some arbitrary cut-off point, taking the most basic explanation without assumptions makes the most sense.

Kratos' Wrathful Blow​

Another part to address is the fact that we use this punch at the end of their fight as an indicator that a bloodlusted Kratos is far above Thor physically and as such there isn't any way to scale him to Kratos at his peak. However, this doesn't really make much sense. Thor only loses a tooth and is pleased he got to see the God of War, correct if I'm wrong but last I checked, putting loose a tooth with a punch isn't remotely near grounds to argue that one physically doesn't scale to the aggressor.

In fact, Thor doesn't even run away (as I've seen purported at times). He's outright not allowed to fight and kill Kratos at that point in time, which he confirms in their second fight. In fact, despite getting that strike from Kratos, he's fully confident in his chances of victory in that fight. One would argue "false bravado" but if Starkadr is any indicator, Thor's not above avoiding fights he feels he'd not have much of a chance of victory in.

Thor vs Kratos ​

Their second fight is usually used as proof that since Kratos handily beat down Thor, he's physically superior when going all out and thus the latter would have even less of a reason to scale to the former's bloodlusted state. This doesn't hold as much water when you consider the fact that Kratos is not only massively more skilled than Thor has a lot of experience battling comparable opponents but also has superior and more varied weaponry at his disposal. In fact, the battle in terms of pure physical power is very even all things considered and Thor can even snap your neck with one hand if you fail to push him off. Not to mention the fact that Kratos actually did more damage to Thor in that fight than the loosed tooth, seeing as carving another deeper gash into his flesh only serves to push him further.

So, while Kratos wins this and indeed proves that he is comparable if not slightly superior to Thor, the supposed massive gap between Kratos and his bloodlusted self, doesn't even seem to exist.

Same Old Same Old​

The distinction between Norse and Greek Kratos as far as physical prowess and immortality are concerned... aren't based on anything. One of the main developers of the series outright states that it's ambiguous who's stronger between Zeus and Odin, despite Kratos being inferior to overall but in the same level physically as Odin during Ragnarok and it being confirmed that he was rusty, "shaking of the cobwebs" and reawakening his dormant powers from when he was in Greece, when he was training for Ragnarok during Fimbulwinter. While he indeed isn't on par with his peak Greek era self, the difference isn't anywhere near as egregious as we currently have it.

The New Hierarchy:​

Based on all of the above, this revision aims to do away with the massive distinctions between Kratos' all out and bloodlusted state and the idea that he's exponentially weaker than his peak Greek era self in the physical department when they're more or less even on that end (though, he's still weaker outright due to lacking his magics, godly power and more potent blessings and weaponry). The new scaling will be;

• Zeus and Odin would be around the same level of power, with Zeus taking an advantage in that regard. Seeing as Kratos not only defeated Zeus but actually beat him until he could barely stand in the first part of their fight, he'd scale above both of them in might. Though, the gaps are far from obscene but they're definitely existent.
  • This is because Odin manages to defeat and trap Ragnarok Kratos without much issue and was only defeated when Freya, his formerly deadliest enemy and Kratos had to work together to counter him.
  • Zeus is capable of facing a significantly stronger Kratos in combat and actually force him to put in a lot of effort to defeat him.
• Thor would scale to Hercules, as many may have guessed above and this is where Ragnarok, Jormugandr, Kratos and Freya would scale as well.
  • He's physically above Odin but with overall magical power added in, soundly below him as evidenced by being on par with Kratos, who was defeated by Odin above and being killed by Odin, though you can argue that this was sharpness based injury. And adding on the fact that he and Hercules are the only ones whose physical blows can either negate Kratos' Valor abilities and knock him down or knock him out of Spartan Rage outright as well as the codex statement, this is a fairly solid tiering for them.
• The rest of the Olympians come after this as being far below them and their scaling is largely untouched. Ares would still scale above Mjolnir itself and thus have himself and other Olympians as far inferior to the top-tier beings. Heimdall and the like would likely scale here as well, given how easily he is beaten by Kratos despite putting up a fight largely with his Realm Shift and abilities.

Agree: 8 (Aetheric Pariah, LuffyRuffy46307, Eseseso, KLOL506, LordTracer, LephyrTheRevanchist, Marvel Champion 07, Elizhaa)

Disagree: 2 (Fixxed, chosen)

Neutral: 3 (Theglassman12, Dienomite22, BEASTHEART880)

 

[KLOL506]

I'll tag the homies and then post my comment regarding this.

@GilverTheProtoAngelo @Theglassman12 @Aetheric Pariah @Mister6ame6 @Dienomite22 @Eseseso @BEASTHEART880

 

[Planck69]

I'll tag the staff.

@Maverick_Zero_X @LordTracer @ByAsura @Elizhaa @Celestial_Pegasus @LephyrTheRevanchist @DemonGodMitchAubin

Input would be welcome.

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

I agree obviously. It's really the only sensible scale that not only makes sense but is backed by the developers intentions. It's also the conclusion that doesn't require assumptions and you only need to take easily inferable statements just as they are.

 

[KLOL506]

Here's the thing though. As you can see in that very entry, Kratos never actually makes any sort of distinction between the enemies he's faced. While both he and Thor held back in their fight, it wouldn't make any sense for him to make such a comparison if it referred to beings far weaker than his peak self (that wouldn't do him any heavy damage of note), seeing as he'd make light of their strikes.

As much as we'd like to believe that'd be the case, Thor straight-up debunks this notion. He repeatedly mocks Kratos for holding back the way he does.

Hell, he doesn't make light of Ares' strikes, Poseidon's strikes, Hades' strikes or even Cronos' strikes, despite already possessing a massive power gap over them. Kratos doesn't have a habit of mocking his enemies unless they do the most deplorable of shit.

Additionally, neither Ares, Poseidon nor Hades actually physically punch or strike him for this comparison to refer to them anyway. In fact, we do know what powerful beings predominantly use such strikes, Zeus and Hercules.

Ares punches Kratos repeatedly in the GoW1 Final boss fight. Poseidon's moveset consists of powerful downward punches against Kratos and hand smacks. Hades has stomps and his arm slams as well. To say that they don't physically punch for the comparsion to refer to them anyway is just simply put, wrong.

In fact, we get direct evidence of this with staggering Kratos enough to nullify Valor's healing and knock him down. It's important that absolutely no other attack does this in the entire saga, that being distorting Kratos' raged state.... except of course, Hercules himself.

Fury Rage doesn't get disabled by Thor. Valor Rage is only defensive and isn't meant to last long anyway. Herc straight up disables Rage of Sparta with his most casual hits.

There's also another problem that a lot of Kratos' other runic attacks are straight up not stopped by anything Thor does. But those can be chalked up as game mechanics I suppose.

Not to mention that "prior to obtaining his powerups in God of War III".... is baseless. That statement is as simple as is and rather than the assumption that it refers to some arbitrary cut-off point, taking the most basic explanation without assumptions makes the most sense.

Except it doesn't. Refer to the fact that his next strongest form while depowered is right after he walks out of the Styx to then fight Hades.

Another part to address is the fact that we use this punch at the end of their fight as an indicator that a bloodlusted Kratos is far above Thor physically and as such there isn't any way to scale him to Kratos at his peak. However, this doesn't really make much sense. Thor only loses a tooth and is pleased he got to see the God of War, correct if I'm wrong but last I checked, putting loose a tooth with a punch isn't remotely near grounds to argue that one physically doesn't scale to the aggressor.

That was just one punch. Not a brutal volley. Poseidon and Hades got a full volley and they weren't one-shotted either, but they were still nonetheless bullied. Same thing would've happened here if Kratos decided to take it one step further and not stop.

His final fight makes this painfully obvious, where he's a lot more serious now and his attacks do way more to Thor than they did before, even without arguing skill, and Kratos isn't bloodlusted here.

In fact, Thor doesn't even run away (as I've seen purported at times). He's outright not allowed to fight and kill Kratos at that point in time, which he confirms in their second fight. In fact, despite getting that strike from Kratos, he's fully confident in his chances of victory in that fight. One would argue "false bravado" but if Starkadr is any indicator, Thor's not above avoiding fights he feels he'd not have much of a chance of victory in.

Being fully confident doesn't mean you'd win the fight tho.

Their second fight is usually used as proof that since Kratos handily beat down Thor, he's physically superior when going all out and thus the latter would have even less of a reason to scale to the former's bloodlusted state. This doesn't hold as much water when you consider the fact that Kratos is not only massively more skilled than Thor has a lot of experience battling comparable opponents but also has superior and more varied weaponry at his disposal. In fact, the battle in terms of pure physical power is very even all things considered and Thor can even snap your neck with one hand if you fail to push him off.

1. This is still not a Bloodlusted Kratos at play.

2. If we're using QTEs, then we can use the same argument for Poseidon, he can kill you if you fail to push him off in the QTEs as well.

3. The Leviathan does damage to Thor's stomach despite its runic magic being depleted. Blades of Chaos are stated to be stronger even in their worst state in the hands of a 2018 Kratos.

Not to mention the fact that Kratos actually did more damage to Thor in that fight than the loosed tooth, seeing as carving another deeper gash into his flesh only serves to push him further.

So, while Kratos wins this and indeed proves that he is comparable if not slightly superior to Thor, the supposed massive gap between Kratos and his bloodlusted self, doesn't even seem to exist.

Eh, don't think that works. Lemme explain.

Kratos is filled up the ass with combat skill, nobody denied that, but at the end of the day, in the final fight, he's not as bloodlusted as when we see him lunge at Thor, and he's still doing that kind of damage to Thor while maintaining control over himself. So imagine what happens next if he truly does go bloodlusted. Mimir straight up warns him not to lose control like last time.

The distinction between Norse and Greek Kratos as far as physical prowess and immortality are concerned... aren't based on anything. One of the main developers of the series outright states that it's ambiguous who's stronger between Zeus and Odin,

That's a Zeus vs Odin comparison. Nothing about Kratos. That's another tweet. Which then gets contradicted later onwards.

We also have the devs stating that Thor could at the very least hold his own against Poseidon's Hippocamps, who are basically extensions of Poseidon's water self. Granted, it's not a cap by any means but it's still something to be noted.

And before anyone says "This is just Bruno saying "Play it for yourself to find out"", I should note that the first tweet is also a tweet that was made a full year before Ragnarok came out.

despite Kratos being inferior to overall but in the same level physically as Odin during Ragnarok and it being confirmed that he was rusty, "shaking of the cobwebs" and reawakening his dormant powers from when he was in Greece, when he was training for Ragnarok during Fimbulwinter. While he indeed isn't on par with his peak Greek era self, the difference isn't anywhere near as egregious as we currently have it.

Like, if you still wanna argue the tooth being less damaging than the BoC slam, one should note that Kratos didn't immediately go landing an all-out volley on Thor. And let's not forget that Kratos is still training to maintain control of his rage and have better access to his full potential without losing himself. Plus, Blades of Chaos being stronger than either Leviathan or Mjolnir doing Thor damage.

The New Hierarchy:​

Based on all of the above, this revision aims to do away with the massive distinctions between Kratos' all out and bloodlusted state and the idea that he's exponentially weaker than his peak Greek era self in the physical department when they're more or less even on that end (though, he's still weaker outright due to lacking his magics, godly power and more potent blessings and weaponry). The new scaling will be;

• Zeus and Odin would be around the same level of power, with Zeus taking an advantage in that regard. Seeing as Kratos not only defeated Zeus but actually beat him until he could barely stand in the first part of their fight, he'd scale above both of them in might. Though, the gaps are far from obscene but they're definitely existent.
  • This is because Odin manages to defeat and trap Ragnarok Kratos without much issue and was only defeated when Freya, his formerly deadliest enemy and Kratos had to work together to counter him.

Again, Kratos doesn't have any of his magic to actually counter Odin's magical stuff. If it was just an all-out physical brawl, Odin is in for a wipeout.

• Thor would scale to Hercules, as many may have guessed above and this is where Ragnarok, Jormugandr, Kratos and Freya would scale as well.
  • He's physically above Odin but with overall magical power added in, soundly below him as evidenced by being on par with Kratos, who was defeated by Odin above and being killed by Odin, though you can argue that this was sharpness based injury. And adding on the fact that he and Hercules are the only ones whose physical blows can either negate Kratos' Valor abilities and knock him down or knock him out of Spartan Rage outright as well as the codex statement, this is a fairly solid tiering for them.

Thor can't neg Fury Rage, Herc straight up negs Rage of Sparta.

• The rest of the Olympians come after this as being far below them and their scaling is largely untouched. Ares would still scale above Mjolnir itself and thus have himself and other Olympians as far inferior to the top-tier beings. Heimdall and the like would likely scale here as well, given how easily he is beaten by Kratos despite putting up a fight largely with his Realm Shift and abilities.

This is fine.

 

[KLOL506]

I agree obviously. It's really the only sensible scale that not only makes sense but is backed by the developers intentions. It's also the conclusion that doesn't require assumptions and you only need to take easily inferable statements just as they are.

That'd just mean dropping all the context surrounding the entire fight itself.

 

[Eseseso]

To quote Freya:

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I agree with everything

 

[Eseseso]

I agree with the OP.

Everything in it makes much more sense and is far less murky than what we are currently using.

 

[KLOL506]

I agree with everything

Would you kindly read both my argument and Planck's before making a vote? Thank you.

 

[Planck69]

Would you kindly read both my argument and Planck's before making a vote? Thank you.

I second this. Regardless of how me and KLOL disagree here, everyone should read both arguments thoroughly.

 

[BlastX]

Also, Kratos saying "Blows" may just be an expression, it doesn't have to be fully physical attacks, just attacks in general.

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

It was physical blows cause he said that mjolnir only compounds the power he said were "as heavy as he's felt".

 

[Planck69]

Also, Kratos saying "Blows" may just be an expression, it doesn't have to be fully physical attacks, just attacks in general.

I'm aware but this would still refer to physical attacks for the most part. And seeing how he scales above Hades and Poseidon and Ares to kingdom come, as well as the other parts of that section, I'd say this wouldn't change much.

 

[KLOL506]

Also, Kratos saying "Blows" may just be an expression, it doesn't have to be fully physical attacks, just attacks in general.

Even considering that, Poseidon slamming his Trident down and Hades slamming down his claws are just as physical as their punches.

 

[Eseseso]

Zeus being equal to Odin makes sense, as does Hercules being the one referred to in Krato's statement about Thor.

contradicted later onwards.

Doesn't this tweet confirm that Bruno says Ragnarok Kratos > GoW3 Kratos (without his Hades powers)?

Also, Plank did use a point I'd been saying for a while in the discussion thread: All he suffered from a surprise punch from Rage Kratos was a lost tooth. Didn't even get the chance to block it, yet lost nothing but a tooth. Other than that he was fine.

 

[Theglassman12]

Neutral on the whole discussion

 

[KLOL506]

Zeus being equal to Odin makes sense, as does Hercules being the one referred to in Krato's statement about Thor.

Again, Kratos was depowered and had no magics to himself, he's still strong as his GoW3 Pre-Hope as per the official game page itself and Eric, self but only when going truly bloodlusted, as we've seen countless times on Kratos trying to hold back on his rage.

Doesn't this tweet confirm that Bruno says Ragnarok Kratos > GoW3 Kratos (without his Hades powers)?

Point is, Bruno contradicts himself on it. Previously he said they're as strong as they've ever been. Now he's saying he's stronger.

Also, Plank did use a point I'd been saying for a while in the discussion thread: All he suffered from a surprise punch from Rage Kratos was a lost tooth. Didn't even get the chance to block it, yet lost nothing but a tooth. Other than that he was fine.

I responded to that saying that Kratos didn't land a full volley of those punches on him. Kratos in BoG GoW3 was also massively superior to both Poseidon and Hades combined, yet he took his time whittling them down, bullied them, but still, took time with them.

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

Zeus being equal to Odin makes sense, as does Hercules being the one referred to in Krato's statement about Thor.


Doesn't this tweet confirm that Bruno says Ragnarok Kratos > GoW3 Kratos (without his Hades powers)?

Also, Plank did use a point I'd been saying for a while in the discussion thread: All he suffered from a surprise punch from Rage Kratos was a lost tooth. Didn't even get the chance to block it, yet lost nothing but a tooth. Other than that he was fine.

The point is multiple developers have consistently put norse and greek kratos relatively. It's basically all we have to go off of cause we have no in-verse justification for it.

 

[BlastX]

Also using the QTE point feels like it falls flst because by using that logic Odin gets massively downgraded since he can't kill you no matter how many times you **** it up.

 

[Eseseso]

This is basically the culmination of a day long debate among supporters on Discord that saw no conclusion. Mainly, this goes over the current scaling of the top level Aesir in comparison to the Brother Kings and a rather massive discrepancy over their placings that we need to address.

The Current Status Quo​

As we currently have them, Thor is comparable to Ragnarok Kratos when the latter isn't completely enraged. Whom we have as being comparable to his level of power as of when he sieged Olympus. Odin is superior to him overall (though physically slightly weaker) and Freya is even with Ragnarok Kratos, more or less. The rest of the top level Nordic beings scale to or back-scale from them and End of III Zeus and Kratos are unreachable by them.

Poseidon and Hades are far below them, being that a casual twirl of lighting from Zeus, pre-Summit of Sacrifice was enough to terrify them and Zeus muses that he can kill Hades instantly with a flick of the Blade of Olympus.

The issues:​

The Codex Entry​

Now, a lot of the people following the series have seen this infamous journal entry from entry from Kratos floating around and generally being a cause of much confusion in regard to scaling. As it says, Kratos describes Thor's blows as being "as heavy as any that I have felt". We currently have this mean the gods he's weathered blows from (Ares, Hades, Poseidon) and that it refers to his held back state.

Here's the thing though. As you can see in that very entry, Kratos never actually makes any sort of distinction between the enemies he's faced. While both he and Thor held back in their fight, it wouldn't make any sense for him to make such a comparison if it referred to beings far weaker than his peak self (that wouldn't do him any heavy damage of note), seeing as he'd make light of their strikes. Additionally, neither Ares, Poseidon nor Hades actually physically punch or strike him for this comparison to refer to them anyway. In fact, we do know what powerful beings predominantly use such strikes, Zeus and Hercules.

Not to mention that "prior to obtaining his powerups in God of War III".... is baseless. That statement is as simple as is and rather than the assumption that it refers to some arbitrary cut-off point, taking the most basic explanation without assumptions makes the most sense.

Agree.

Kratos' Wrathful Blow​

Another part to address is the fact that we use this punch at the end of their fight as an indicator that a bloodlusted Kratos is far above Thor physically and as such there isn't any way to scale him to Kratos at his peak. However, this doesn't really make much sense. Thor only loses a tooth and is pleased he got to see the God of War, correct if I'm wrong but last I checked, putting loose a tooth with a punch isn't remotely near grounds to argue that one physically doesn't scale to the aggressor.

In fact, Thor doesn't even run away (as I've seen purported at times). He's outright not allowed to fight and kill Kratos at that point in time, which he confirms in their second fight. In fact, despite getting that strike from Kratos, he's fully confident in his chances of victory in that fight. One would argue "false bravado" but if Starkadr is any indicator, Thor's not above avoiding fights he feels he'd not have much of a chance of victory in.

Agree with everything.

Thor vs Kratos ​

Their second fight is usually used as proof that since Kratos handily beat down Thor, he's physically superior when going all out and thus the latter would have even less of a reason to scale to the former's bloodlusted state. This doesn't hold as much water when you consider the fact that Kratos is not only massively more skilled than Thor has a lot of experience battling comparable opponents but also has superior and more varied weaponry at his disposal. In fact, the battle in terms of pure physical power is very even all things considered and Thor can even snap your neck with one hand if you fail to push him off. Not to mention the fact that Kratos actually did more damage to Thor in that fight than the loosed tooth, seeing as carving another deeper gash into his flesh only serves to push him further.

Agree.

So, while Kratos wins this and indeed proves that he is comparable if not slightly superior to Thor, the supposed massive gap between Kratos and his bloodlusted self, doesn't even seem to exist.

Same Old Same Old​

The distinction between Norse and Greek Kratos as far as physical prowess and immortality are concerned... aren't based on anything. One of the main developers of the series outright states that it's ambiguous who's stronger between Zeus and Odin, despite Kratos being inferior to overall but in the same level physically as Odin during Ragnarok and it being confirmed that he was rusty, "shaking of the cobwebs" and reawakening his dormant powers from when he was in Greece, when he was training for Ragnarok during Fimbulwinter. While he indeed isn't on par with his peak Greek era self, the difference isn't anywhere near as egregious as we currently have it.

The New Hierarchy:​

Based on all of the above, this revision aims to do away with the massive distinctions between Kratos' all out and bloodlusted state and the idea that he's exponentially weaker than his peak Greek era self in the physical department when they're more or less even on that end (though, he's still weaker outright due to lacking his magics, godly power and more potent blessings and weaponry). The new scaling will be;

• Zeus and Odin would be around the same level of power, with Zeus taking an advantage in that regard. Seeing as Kratos not only defeated Zeus but actually beat him until he could barely stand in the first part of their fight, he'd scale above both of them in might. Though, the gaps are far from obscene but they're definitely existent.
  • This is because Odin manages to defeat and trap Ragnarok Kratos without much issue and was only defeated when Freya, his formerly deadliest enemy and Kratos had to work together to counter him.
  • Zeus is capable of facing a significantly stronger Kratos in combat and actually force him to put in a lot of effort to defeat him.
• Thor would scale to Hercules, as many may have guessed above and this is where Ragnarok, Jormugandr, Kratos and Freya would scale as well.

Ragnarok did nothing to Thor.

And Ingrid's scaling comes from Ragnarok.

Jormie scaling is fine since he took direct hits.

• • He's physically above Odin but with overall magical power added in, soundly below him as evidenced by being on par with Kratos, who was defeated by Odin above and being killed by Odin, though you can argue that this was sharpness based injury. And adding on the fact that he and Hercules are the only ones whose physical blows can either negate Kratos' Valor abilities and knock him down or knock him out of Spartan Rage outright as well as the codex statement, this is a fairly solid tiering for them.

Agree.

• The rest of the Olympians come after this as being far below them and their scaling is largely untouched. Ares would still scale above Mjolnir itself and thus have himself and other Olympians as far inferior to the top-tier beings. Heimdall and the like would likely scale here as well, given how easily he is beaten by Kratos despite putting up a fight largely with his Realm Shift and abilities.

I mean Heimdall did match and block his blows, but yeah he was piss-scared of Thor so I guess this is fine.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Would you kindly read both my argument and Planck's before making a vote? Thank you.

But I really read it, I totally agree this time, several times the Gods are shown being equal to the Greek Gods, if not superior, we even have confirmation that the old Kratos is more powerful than the Greek Kratos in terms of strength, so anyone who matches the new Kratos or surpasses Kratos' strength would be at that level.

 

[KLOL506]

The point is multiple developers have consistently put norse and greek kratos relatively. It's basically all we have to go off of cause we have no in-verse justification for it.

Okay? That's still applying to a fully-bloodlusted Kratos.

 

[KLOL506]

But I really read it, I totally agree this time, several times the Gods are shown being equal to the Greek Gods, if not superior, we even have confirmation that the old Kratos is more powerful than the Greek Kratos in terms of strength,

Old Kratos isn't more powerful than Greek Kratos, that's already been debunked to kingdom come and has nothing to do with the actual Thor scaling at hand.

There's only two tweets that say that and every other dev confirmation explicitly states Norse Kratos to be equal to GoW3 Kratos, not stronger.

so anyone who matches the new Kratos or surpasses Kratos' strength would be at that level.

I think you need to read the part about scaling Thor to Hercules that Planck mentioned.

 

[Eseseso]

Why do we always assume that none of the statements for Norse Kratos that put him with the Greek top-tiers can be used for his normal but serious self?

He only uses his bloodlust in 2 cutscenes.

Those statements were almost certainly meant to hype up his normal Ragnarok self's usable max power.

Seems like an unfair lowball to me.

 

[Planck69]

But I really read it, I totally agree this time, several times the Gods are shown being equal to the Greek Gods, if not superior, we even have confirmation that the old Kratos is more powerful than the Greek Kratos in terms of strength, so anyone who matches the new Kratos or surpasses Kratos' strength would be at that level.

Yeah, Norse Kratos isn't superior to Greek Era Kratos. If this revision passes he'll be on the same general level but still beneath his God-King+ level state at the end of III. KLOL's right on this.

 

[Eseseso]

Yeah, Norse Kratos isn't superior to Greek Era Kratos. If this revision passes he'll be on the same general level but still beneath his God-King+ level state at the end of III. KLOL's right on this.

You mean Power of Hope? Or End-of-Zeus fight Pre-Hope?

 

[BlastX]

You mean Power of Hope? Or End-of-Zeus fight Pre-Hope?

Pre-Hope

Nobody, absolutely Nobody will scale to PoH

 

[KLOL506]

Why do we always assume that none of the statements for Norse Kratos that put him with the Greek top-tiers can be used for his normal but serious self?

Because they explicitly state that Kratos had to train hard to gain back his form.

You mean Power of Hope? Or End-of-Zeus fight Pre-Hope?

LMFAO absolutely not. Great Evils and Hope are off-limits. GoW3 Pre-Hope Kratos.

 

[Eseseso]

Pre-Hope

Nobody, absolutely Nobody will scale to PoH

Oh yeah, that's a given.

 

[Eseseso]

Because they explicitly state that Kratos had to train hard to gain back his form.

Yeah, and he gained back his old serious but not-enraged power.

With all the hyping done by Word of God for Thor and Odin, it makes no sense for Thor/Odin to be, say, Brother King level in AP.

 

[Planck69]

You mean Power of Hope? Or End-of-Zeus fight Pre-Hope?

Like, currently it's End of III Kratos >>>>>> Ragnarok Kratos.

If this revision, the gap will be just somewhat greater than the gap between Odin and Ragnarok Kratos. This being due to magic and godhood at that.

No one in either pantheon will ever scale to Hope Kratos.

 

[KLOL506]

Pre-Hope

Nobody, absolutely Nobody will scale to PoH

Let alone Great Evils.

 

[Eseseso]

Like, currently it's End of III Kratos >>>>>> Ragnarok Kratos.

If this revision, the gap will be just somewhat greater than the gap between Odin and Ragnarok Kratos.

Finally people are admitting Odin's magic power/AP was too strong for Ragnarok Kratos on his own

And I agree with the 2nd one.

 

[KLOL506]

Yeah, and he gained back his old serious but not-enraged power.

With all the hyping done by Word of God for Thor and Odin, it makes no sense for Thor/Odin to be, say, Brother King level in AP.

I mean, the WoG is in no way a cap for Thor.

Hell, I even agreed that Thor at his best would scale to GoW2 Zeus. Who is already asininely above the Brother Kings to the point of a one-shot.

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

Fear Zeus and PoH kratos are no longer "Zeus" and "kratos". They are abstractions more so, so they're not involved with the scale.

 

[KLOL506]

Finally people are admitting Odin's magic power/AP was too strong for Ragnarok Kratos on his own

LMFAO we've been admitting that Odin w/ Magic >>>>> Ragnarok Kratos for a long while now.

 

[BlastX]

I mean, the WoG is in no way a cap for Thor.

Hell, I even agreed that Thor at his best would scale to GoW2 Zeus. Who is already asininely above the Brother Kings to the point of a one-shot.

Yeah, it's not like it wouldn't fit either

 

[Eseseso]

LMFAO we've been admitting that Odin w/ Magic >>>>> Ragnarok Kratos for a long while now.

Could've fooled me from the discussion thread, tbh.

But anyways, I see nothing contradicting that tweet from Bruno about Odin being =< Zeus.

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

Could've fooled me from the discussion thread, tbh.

But anyways, I see nothing contradicting that tweet from Bruno about Odin being =< Zeus.

Yeah it's just basic sense, GodKing being relative to another God king.