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This is basically the culmination of a day long debate among supporters on Discord that saw no conclusion. Mainly, this goes over the current scaling of the top level Aesir in comparison to the Brother Kings and a rather massive discrepancy over their placings that we need to address.
Poseidon and Hades are far below them, being that a casual twirl of lighting from Zeus, pre-Summit of Sacrifice was enough to terrify them and Zeus muses that he can kill Hades instantly with a flick of the Blade of Olympus.
Here's the thing though. As you can see in that very entry, Kratos never actually makes any sort of distinction between the enemies he's faced. While both he and Thor held back in their fight, it wouldn't make any sense for him to make such a comparison if it referred to beings far weaker than his peak self (that wouldn't do him any heavy damage of note), seeing as he'd make light of their strikes. Additionally, neither Ares, Poseidon nor Hades actually physically punch or strike him for this comparison to refer to them anyway. In fact, we do know what powerful beings predominantly use such strikes, Zeus and Hercules.
In fact, we get direct evidence of this with staggering Kratos enough to nullify Valor's healing and knock him down. It's important that absolutely no other attack does this in the entire saga, that being distorting Kratos' raged state.... except of course, Hercules himself.
Not to mention that "prior to obtaining his powerups in God of War III".... is baseless. That statement is as simple as is and rather than the assumption that it refers to some arbitrary cut-off point, taking the most basic explanation without assumptions makes the most sense.
In fact, Thor doesn't even run away (as I've seen purported at times). He's outright not allowed to fight and kill Kratos at that point in time, which he confirms in their second fight. In fact, despite getting that strike from Kratos, he's fully confident in his chances of victory in that fight. One would argue "false bravado" but if Starkadr is any indicator, Thor's not above avoiding fights he feels he'd not have much of a chance of victory in.
So, while Kratos wins this and indeed proves that he is comparable if not slightly superior to Thor, the supposed massive gap between Kratos and his bloodlusted self, doesn't even seem to exist.
Disagree: 2 (Fixxed, chosen)
Neutral: 3 (Theglassman12, Dienomite22, BEASTHEART880)
The Current Status Quo
As we currently have them, Thor is comparable to Ragnarok Kratos when the latter isn't completely enraged. Whom we have as being comparable to his level of power as of when he sieged Olympus. Odin is superior to him overall (though physically slightly weaker) and Freya is even with Ragnarok Kratos, more or less. The rest of the top level Nordic beings scale to or back-scale from them and End of III Zeus and Kratos are unreachable by them.Poseidon and Hades are far below them, being that a casual twirl of lighting from Zeus, pre-Summit of Sacrifice was enough to terrify them and Zeus muses that he can kill Hades instantly with a flick of the Blade of Olympus.
The issues:
The Codex Entry
Now, a lot of the people following the series have seen this infamous journal entry from entry from Kratos floating around and generally being a cause of much confusion in regard to scaling. As it says, Kratos describes Thor's blows as being "as heavy as any that I have felt". We currently have this mean the gods he's weathered blows from (Ares, Hades, Poseidon) and that it refers to his held back state.Here's the thing though. As you can see in that very entry, Kratos never actually makes any sort of distinction between the enemies he's faced. While both he and Thor held back in their fight, it wouldn't make any sense for him to make such a comparison if it referred to beings far weaker than his peak self (that wouldn't do him any heavy damage of note), seeing as he'd make light of their strikes. Additionally, neither Ares, Poseidon nor Hades actually physically punch or strike him for this comparison to refer to them anyway. In fact, we do know what powerful beings predominantly use such strikes, Zeus and Hercules.
In fact, we get direct evidence of this with staggering Kratos enough to nullify Valor's healing and knock him down. It's important that absolutely no other attack does this in the entire saga, that being distorting Kratos' raged state.... except of course, Hercules himself.
Not to mention that "prior to obtaining his powerups in God of War III".... is baseless. That statement is as simple as is and rather than the assumption that it refers to some arbitrary cut-off point, taking the most basic explanation without assumptions makes the most sense.
Kratos' Wrathful Blow
Another part to address is the fact that we use this punch at the end of their fight as an indicator that a bloodlusted Kratos is far above Thor physically and as such there isn't any way to scale him to Kratos at his peak. However, this doesn't really make much sense. Thor only loses a tooth and is pleased he got to see the God of War, correct if I'm wrong but last I checked, putting loose a tooth with a punch isn't remotely near grounds to argue that one physically doesn't scale to the aggressor.In fact, Thor doesn't even run away (as I've seen purported at times). He's outright not allowed to fight and kill Kratos at that point in time, which he confirms in their second fight. In fact, despite getting that strike from Kratos, he's fully confident in his chances of victory in that fight. One would argue "false bravado" but if Starkadr is any indicator, Thor's not above avoiding fights he feels he'd not have much of a chance of victory in.
Thor vs Kratos
Their second fight is usually used as proof that since Kratos handily beat down Thor, he's physically superior when going all out and thus the latter would have even less of a reason to scale to the former's bloodlusted state. This doesn't hold as much water when you consider the fact that Kratos is not only massively more skilled than Thor has a lot of experience battling comparable opponents but also has superior and more varied weaponry at his disposal. In fact, the battle in terms of pure physical power is very even all things considered and Thor can even snap your neck with one hand if you fail to push him off. Not to mention the fact that Kratos actually did more damage to Thor in that fight than the loosed tooth, seeing as carving another deeper gash into his flesh only serves to push him further.So, while Kratos wins this and indeed proves that he is comparable if not slightly superior to Thor, the supposed massive gap between Kratos and his bloodlusted self, doesn't even seem to exist.
Same Old Same Old
The distinction between Norse and Greek Kratos as far as physical prowess and immortality are concerned... aren't based on anything. One of the main developers of the series outright states that it's ambiguous who's stronger between Zeus and Odin, despite Kratos being inferior to overall but in the same level physically as Odin during Ragnarok and it being confirmed that he was rusty, "shaking of the cobwebs" and reawakening his dormant powers from when he was in Greece, when he was training for Ragnarok during Fimbulwinter. While he indeed isn't on par with his peak Greek era self, the difference isn't anywhere near as egregious as we currently have it.The New Hierarchy:
Based on all of the above, this revision aims to do away with the massive distinctions between Kratos' all out and bloodlusted state and the idea that he's exponentially weaker than his peak Greek era self in the physical department when they're more or less even on that end (though, he's still weaker outright due to lacking his magics, godly power and more potent blessings and weaponry). The new scaling will be;- Zeus and Odin would be around the same level of power, with Zeus taking an advantage in that regard. Seeing as Kratos not only defeated Zeus but actually beat him until he could barely stand in the first part of their fight, he'd scale above both of them in might. Though, the gaps are far from obscene but they're definitely existent.
- This is because Odin manages to defeat and trap Ragnarok Kratos without much issue and was only defeated when Freya, his formerly deadliest enemy and Kratos had to work together to counter him.
- Zeus is capable of facing a significantly stronger Kratos in combat and actually force him to put in a lot of effort to defeat him.
- Thor would scale to Hercules, as many may have guessed above and this is where Ragnarok, Jormugandr, Kratos and Freya would scale as well.
- He's physically above Odin but with overall magical power added in, soundly below him as evidenced by being on par with Kratos, who was defeated by Odin above and being killed by Odin, though you can argue that this was sharpness based injury. And adding on the fact that he and Hercules are the only ones whose physical blows can either negate Kratos' Valor abilities and knock him down or knock him out of Spartan Rage outright as well as the codex statement, this is a fairly solid tiering for them.
- The rest of the Olympians come after this as being far below them and their scaling is largely untouched. Ares would still scale above Mjolnir itself and thus have himself and other Olympians as far inferior to the top-tier beings. Heimdall and the like would likely scale here as well, given how easily he is beaten by Kratos despite putting up a fight largely with his Realm Shift and abilities.
Disagree: 2 (Fixxed, chosen)
Neutral: 3 (Theglassman12, Dienomite22, BEASTHEART880)
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