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Godzilla Monsterverse Up?
- Thread starter ZeddKD
- Start date
- Status
- 2,870
- 2,263
The fact that such an extreme amount of the Earth is Hollowed out, and the planet hasn't collapsed. Kinda says alot about it
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Ok
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Basically anyone capable of destroying MV Planet Earth would get Solar System AP.
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Unfortunately, I don’t think that’s any character (yet)
CitRusReality64
Any/All- 628
- 151
I think there are some statements that say Ghidorah and Shimo can destroy the planet. Idk if if they would be viable or be considered as like hype statements
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Shimo is probably referring to her ice age surface wiping. I’ve seen a Ghidorah statement from Greg Keyes, which seems to be a better indicator of planetary destruction but I’ve not seen it in a while so I’m not sure how reliable it is.
CitRusReality64
Any/All- 628
- 151
For shimo, it was stated in a director commentary by Adam Wingard, he blatantly said "She cam destroy the planet"
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I'm kinda neutral on this 'cause I wouldn't say it's as consistent as the Titans' current tiers that are more "grounded" in terms of continental and intercontinental attacks and whatnot
I could maybe accept this if the final result is "At least 'current Country level-ish tiers', possibly 'these higher cosmic tiers'"
I could maybe accept this if the final result is "At least 'current Country level-ish tiers', possibly 'these higher cosmic tiers'"
Ruby_R_Dracula
She/Her- 5,104
- 2,079
bump
- 98
- 53
Looks good to me.
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I somewhat agree with this, but I think that in general, it would also not be enough.
The energy gets compared a lot, but I think that definitive tiers should be for stuff that is a more direct statement, like "It generates X level of energy", while the statements here are like "The radiation has the same frequency as that of cosmic gamma ray bursts".
The energy from a cosmic gamma-ray burst isn't defined just by the frequency, but also by the number of photons. Just having the same frequency doesn't mean that it shares the same energy amount. Even if the frequency and wavelength were the same, the simple fact that it's not a burst of energy of stellar size would already greatly decrease the energy amount.
Very broadly speaking, the energy of a photon is defined as E = h*f, where h is Planck's constant and f is the frequency.
Since h = 6.62607015*10^−34 J/Hz and f is 30*10^18 Hz, then E = 1.98*10^-14 Joules per photon
All that the 30 exahertz says about the burst is that each photon is carrying 1.98*10^-14 joules of energy. Cosmic gamma ray bursts have A LOT of photons, entire stellar volumes of them.
If you had a gamma ray flashlight that emits the usual 10^18 photons per second, but with gamma ray frequency, that would mean that flashlight would produce... 1.98*10^4 Joules each second, which is barely Wall level.
Tl;dr Being compared to cosmic gamma ray bursts, even said to share the same frequency, isn't enough to actually scale anywhere close to how much energy one of them emits. Cosmic gamma ray bursts are enormous in size, and if something with the same frequency, but very small, is emitted, it could be as low as Wall level.
If there's a direct statement saying "It produces energy in the same scale as X" or "It rivals that sheer power of X", then you could scale them more directly, but since the only thing I saw being compared directly was the frequency, that isn't enough to scale to the total power of a cosmic gamma ray burst.
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Do you think this could be calculated via finding the size of a portal and then finding the amount of photons from there?
ZeddKD
He/Him- 26
- 27
- Thread starter
- #56
The argument presented fails to reduce what the Legacy of Monsters series describes as gamma ray bursts to a mere coincidence of frequency. The criticism is based on a fundamental misunderstanding: the idea that the equivalence with GRBs is limited to the electromagnetic spectrum, when in reality the narrative is clear in establishing that the portals are identified as GRBs, i.e. they are phenomena of the same type, not just similar in frequency.
The attempt to refute this using the equation E = hf, calculating the energy of a single photon with a frequency of 30 exahertz, completely ignores the narrative context presented. The series does not say that these events only “have high-frequency photons”, but that the energy peaks generated by them are only observed in pulsars and supermassive black holes. This is a statement of magnitude, not of superficial similarity. If it were only a question of frequency, there would be no reason to mention cosmic phenomena on such a large scale. The choice of these comparisons serves precisely to emphasize the absurd intensity of the energy involved, and not a technical detail of the wavelength.
More than that: the series itself states that conventional physics cannot explain these events. Phrases like “physics is incomplete” and “theoretical physics is wrong” don't appear by chance — they signal that the observed events are beyond what the E = hf equation alone can describe. It is clear that the number of photons involved, or the way in which this energy is released and concentrated, goes beyond the limits of current physics. Therefore, trying to reduce the whole discussion to energy per photon is insufficient and even counterproductive within the context of the work itself.
Finally, the official novelization of Godzilla x Kong: The New Empire complements this view by stating that the energy levels observed far exceed what any human technology would be capable of generating. This invalidates any comparison with a simple “gamma ray lantern”, as the counter-argument tries to suggest. The work makes it clear that the phenomenon not only shares a frequency with GRBs, but that it reproduces the energy scale of these events. Therefore, saying that “having the same frequency does not mean having the same energy” is a technically correct argument, but completely irrelevant when the narrative itself makes it explicit that the amount of energy is also equivalent.
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Thanks a lot for your help
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What page number is this quote? Not denying it exists, just want to see the full context.
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How much of the evidence is from the movies vs. the novelizations? I don't think such enormous upgrades should be made solely on supplementary material. Based on the evidence provided I think I'm leaning towards supporting Tier 5, but I am in strong opposition to the Tier 4 proposals.
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What novels are you talking about? Everything presented here has to do with the movie canon.
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Sure, but novelizations sometimes contradict the movies they are based on. Are we certain there are no contradictions? As long as the info in novelizations is supported by info in the films and there's no outliers I'm fine using them.
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The MonsterVerse canon has always been complemented by movies, series, comics, novels, and even video games. But as far as I know there are no contradictions between the novels and the movies as to how energetic the Hollow Earth is.
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This all looks good.
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That's good then. I wasn't saying that they shouldn't be used, just that they shouldn't be used unless they are supported by stuff in the films and aren't contradicted. If everything checks out, I'm good with an upgrade.
Based on what has been provided, I don't like the idea of scaling Titans to a real Gamma Ray Burst. I think a calc would be best, but it looks to me that Tier 5 is consistent. Basically I'll go along with whatever a calc finds for the Vile Vortex and such.
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Do any of you have the necessary scans/stuff to make a calculation of the portal/Vile Vortex? I could try asking someone to calculate it, but I do need all the available stuff to do so.
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It's ok, no worries.
I have your same opinion, as I would also prefer a calculation of the Vile Vortex in order to be sure.
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Let me give a comparison with something commonly done, the Sun. When something is called "As powerful as the Sun" or "It's 20 times more powerful to the Sun" or even "Can create a sun in the palm of their hand" we don't scale it to the Sun directly, we look at what property it's more likely being compared to the Sun and reproduce it with the scale that is being shown.
That could mean giving the temperature of the Sun to the miniature sun, or comparing it to the energy released by the sun, etc. If we are indicated what allows the comparison, that is what we use (For example, if something is said to produce 20x the energy the Sun produces, we multiply the luminosity of the Sun by 20 and use that value).
That is, they can compare it to cosmic Gamma Ray Bursts, if they don't give something more to it than saying "It has this frequency that is the same as the ones from Gamma Ray Bursts", there's no need to actually scale it to anything other than that frequency. If it's a gamma ray burst, what defines it is the photons being in the gamma ray frequency/wavelength, which we have confirmed to be the case.
I did see the gif that said "You only see these kinds of spikes from pulsars. Supermassive black holes from outer space.", but as I said, if we don't have anything more to it other than the frequency to compare, there's nothing more we can do about it. Like, it's reading something and that reading is on the level that can only be found on pulsars, but what is being read? it's the frequency? Luminosity? Energy? If we don't have anything more than the frequency to use, that is what is usually assumed to be the reference.
If you have a scan that directly states that it produces energy at the same level as a cosmic gamma ray burst or even more, that is what is needed. In fact, if you had shown only that, it would be enough, as that really is all that is left.
And of course, fiction is judged here at a level somewhat close to reality, but not so much. We are perfectly fine with giving something a hand-sized Sun a 4-C tier even though it makes no physical sense if that miniature sun has a feat on that scale (Like being used to blow up something with 4-C resistance). Again, if you have a statement directly saying, "It generates more energy than a gamma ray burst from outer space," that alone would scale to that level.
And of course, I can only comment on what is in the post itself, if there's more to it in the series, of course, my comment wouldn't touch on that subject because I don't know the series. If you have more information about the feat, I suggest next time to address all existing evidence in the OP instead of just giving more when people start to reply to the thread, you can't really complain about "It goes against the narrative of the series" if you don't give the narrative of the series beforehand.
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Executor sounds on point.
ZeddKD
He/Him- 26
- 27
- Thread starter
- #72
Ok, I recognize my big mistake in this particular part, after I finish writing here, I will put everything I showed in the discussion in the initial topic.
In fact, “reading” could refer to many different things. But in reality, the language used is qualitative and refers to the whole energy phenomenon. The series says that gamma radiation in the 30 exahertz range appeared in Alaska, these types of peaks being found only in pulsars and supermassive black holes, being a rhythmic pulse, just like a pulsar. A “spike” of this type, in this context, refers to the energy peak created by these events. The idea that the comparison is only valid if there is a direct statement such as “generates more energy than a GRB” ignores the fact that the phrase is already that statement, only conveyed through scientific context, and not through some kind of exaggeration.
In short, when a work claims that the energetic phenomena generated by an event (such as the opening of the vortices) are only observed in bodies the size of supermassive black holes, and also says that current science cannot explain such occurrences (including saying that Godzilla generates radiation at cosmic levels and identifying the portals as gamma ray bursts), it is not just talking about wavelength. She's saying that within the internal logic of her universe, this released energy rivals these astronomical events.
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I totally agree with this
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It's not that it's "the only valid statement", but "The one with the least amount of assumptions for a high-ball". As I said, we do the same when something is compared to the Sun, we only scale to a Sun at the proportion of the feat, not the whole thing unless we have a more direct statement to say "Yes, this is Tier 4". (Which is why most times Sun comparison-feats get around Tier 6 instead of Tier 4).
Seeing the scene, I'm getting a completely different reading from yours.
From my point of view, what is being measured and compared here is exactly the frequency. When the person asks what it is, the answer directly states, "Radiation at the 30 exahertz range, you only see this high coming from pulsars".
And this makes sense to me. Measurement equipment for cosmic events won't ever measure the energy itself, how could they even do that directly? They measure a specific property that can be kept mostly the same or easily converted to the value at the source. Apparent luminosity at a distance and frequency are exactly some of the factors that are actually measured, energy values are achieved after making a calculation with ideas like "How much energy would be needed to result in this luminosity at this distance?".
So, I see no reason why this would be talking about anything, necessarily, other than these being high-frequency gamma rays at a level like those seen in outer space. It shares properties that are just like those of gamma ray bursts, but just like we won't scale every Sun feat to Tier 4, we don't need to scale gamma ray burst feats to that as well, those things scale to the scale that is portrayed as their actual definitions are unrelated to energy values.
If this is all the material available, then I think it's just a matter of how many people interpret this as "This is comparing energy directly and saying it's the same power output" or "This is comparing the frequency, stating it's at the same level as ones seen from outer space gamma ray bursts", so just look at the votes.
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Could a "possibly" rating be viable, or is genuinely not enough for even that?
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I think it could be fine. It's not like there are no comparisons to it, just that not enough, in my opinion, beyond a reasonable doubt, but since the "Possibly" ranting is for feats that are at least vague enough, I think it could work.
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Just to clarify, do you agree with "possibly Solar System level", right?
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With the level that a cosmic gamma ray burst is scaled to, if that is where the level is, then that would be it
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