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Hello there. I believe this may be one of the more important CRTs that we've planned for Godzilla, especially for Godzilla SP. I was helped immensly in my research by off-site researchers Infinite-Sun (aka King of All Monsters) and Yayday, as well as the folks who worked along side them. With our combined efforts we have managed to create a scaling that I believe makes the most sense, and thus we present to you...
The universe in SP is a double whammy of sorts. There's our space, the visible cosmos, and then there's the hyperspace. Hyperspace, by definition, is higher-dimensional space. I was under the misconception that it could be separate from the universe but no, it is simply a higher end of it. The universe that humanity perceives seems to be considered separate and yet part of the same space-time, effectively meaning that they're under the same roof. The higher dimensions influence the lower ones and it is also clearly shown here that the higher dimensions mentioned aren't above time as I used to think myself. This will be cruical later.
The next point to tackle is - how many dimensions are there in the universe? My answer - enough to contain the archetype molecules within itself. The quote that is being used to argue for Countless-D Archetype molecules is as follows:
"Their tentacles extending from their bodies were not only connected to the three dimensions of length, width, and depth that make up this world, as well as the flowing fourth dimension, but they were also intersecting with countless other dimensions. While exploring the surface of the earth, they were simultaneously active, probing the seas of all possibilities."
Now a key element here is that in all three translation I have presented here, it is abundantly clear that the three dimensions that "make up the world" and the time dimension are separate. It is also clear that there's countless other dimensions.
Let's look at another quote here.
From this we can basically gather that 1) Kumonga are used to look on at dimensions, 2) the net used by Kumonga is within space-time and 3) the higher-dimensional net operates within space-time as well.
What good has this done? Well, we've proven that the higher-dimensional beings and the higher-dimensional net which operates using archetype molecules is all localized within the space-time in which the universe is located. This means that any threat to the space-time would equal in dimensional potency to the overall size of the space-time. But what is the size? There's two things that we need to see.
I fully credit Yayday for the following arguments.
1)
This arguments analyzes the notes found within the anime, notes made by Ashihara who was researching the Singular Point and the Archetype molecules. The calculations were made to analyze the aforementioned subjects and in it we find evidence of infinite dimensions existing. To dumb it down - the formula suggests that there's at least infinite dimensions of space due to the integral being used being written as "M" which, unlike the lower "m", is used for infinite or above numbers. Another important thing is that there's a time dimensions binding the whole thing. This will be important later.
2)Here's another argument presented by the person in question - the linguistic argument. This argument suggests that the word "無数", which referes to countless, innumerable, numberless or infinite, may be used by the author to refer to infinity or even uncountable infinity in that context.
Here's the quote of the actual argument being presented:
" “無数”cannot be 100% proven to be infinite. However, Toh Enjoe often uses the term "無数" to refer to infinity or even larger infinite cardinals. For example, in the novel, there is a passage mentioning that around Shiva, countless Closed Timelike Curves (CTCs) are generated, reaching a state of mathematical density.
一本、二本と数えられるような輪ではなく、時間を行って戻って閉じる輪が無数に絡まり 合っている。数学でいうところの「稠ちゆう密みつ」という用語が見合う。
In mathematics, "dense" means that for any point in a set, its neighborhood intersects with the set, or the closure of the set equals the entire space. The most classic example is the set of rational numbers being dense in the set of real numbers—between any two real numbers, there are infinitely many rational numbers.
The universe of Singular Point is continuous. This implies that even within a Planck-length volume of space, there are uncountably infinite CTCs. Thus, while it cannot be entirely ruled out, the possibility of infinite dimensions cannot be 100% dismissed either."
With the arguments presented I believe that it should be possible to upgrade the space-time of SP to High 1-B or High 1-B+
Here's a quote about it:
Here's another quote:
Now where does this lead us? Well, we know that the SP still has binds to the universe as it has a sort of space-time structure, we also know it is far below "It" and is but a point of contact, a hole made by the 1-A "It" to access the universe. This leads me to think that it has to be something in between. It clearly is beyond space and time as even entering it leads to time becoming effectively irrelevant and time encompasses all dimensions in this case. I think that there's a high likelyhood that the Singular Point is, in actuality, Low 1-A.
First off, "It" is pretty much certainly 1-A. We already have that on the profile but we can still push it further. Outside of being above Low 1-A constructs and seeing things as comparable to fiction, we now have the quote above that suggests that the red dust creatures are used by "It" to look into dimensions like a pinhole camera. It is also apparent that the current dream quote is underexplored. Let's look at it:
To add to this, I have asked them about the 'infinite' part and whether it is legit and they've answered, and I quote, "yes explicitly infinite 果てはなく (adverbial form of 果はない, literally "without end"). It's also combined with どこまでいっても which is like "no matter how far you go" [or to that effect]. Combining those both i think it's pretty clear".
Originally I though that maybe the dreams could be "It waking up from a dream only to enter yet another dream" but at this point I don't think it can be argued, it is extremely explicitly stated that there's an infinite recursion of dreams within dreams within dreams.
I think this is a very clear case of 1-A+, aka infinite-layers into 1-A.
TL;DR: "It" sees time-space as a dream within a dream with no end to it. This means it is 1-A+. Ez.
This wouldn't give a higher intelligence rating but it would boost the supergenius rating they already have even further than before.
The ratings would be
SHIVA - Supergenius (Can preform hyperspatial and hypertemporal calculations, should be able to calculate the highest forms of PSPACE calculations (PP level) via the CTC)
JJ-PP - Supergenius (Exists as a result of Pero 2 entering and recreating itself again and again within the Singular Point, effectively becoming one with it and achieving an intelligence great enough to figure out a way to defeat Godzilla, something a PSPACE calculation (PP level) done by SHIVA could not figure out properly)
Kaiju - Supergenius (Possess unlimited computational resources which would make them similar in nature to Turing machines which are hypothetically capable of all forms of calculations, qualitively surpass their worldly forms which possess access to a sort of Computational Eden, a state that should be comparable to the SHIVA supercomputer humanity built around the singular point, which can calculate PSPACE-level problems with ease. Should be beyond the Singular Point overall in their true forms. )
-Everyone who currently has basic Hyperversal range gets High Hyperversal/High Hyperversal+range
-The Singular Point becomes Low Outerversal in its level of existence
-Godzilla and SHIVA:
These two get a special case. They are pretty much created around the same Singular Point, meaning all powers of the SP come from them.
So SHIVA can effectively re-create the universe through a paradox, same should go to Godzilla, Godzilla himself can effectively destroy Pero 2 (who is inside the low outer singular point) and any space-time within the universe.
I propose High 1-B/High 1-B+ for SHIVA via paradoxes, Varies, up to High 1-B/High 1-B+, likely Low 1-A with CTC Laser for Godzilla (his beam varies in power as at first JJ tanks it and then Godzilla intensifies its power to the point where he melts right through him).
-Omega Point: Would tear apart the singular point, as stated in the profile, making it Low 1-A
-"It" and the true forms of the red dust creatures: 1-A+
-Same goes for the hax that currently scales to 1-A
Minor Addition: here it is explained that the red dust creatures would literally bring their imagination into reality. This should be subjective reality rather than reality warping.
Minor Addition 2: Remove the 'possibly higher' stuff from Rodan since we don't actually know what and how the creatures will operate and how they will change the universe and over what time.
GODZILLA: LIVING THE DREAM
A tier 1 overhaul
To begin with, I think it is important to explain everything in the right order. As of right now, the true form of Godzilla Ultima is considered 1-A. After a recent CRT, we have successfully fused the novel and anime profiles. This effectively means that the evidence used in both series is interchangeable. One of those things, one that was relatively unexplored before, is the math. This series is made by Toh Enjoe, a writer who focuses on math and physics as well as philosophy, one whose verses have been scaled as far as tier 0 on our wiki. He is knowledgeable in math and constantly uses both well known and very niche mathematical concepts throughout the series, that including singular point. One of the things that he has done is write for the Singular Point anime and write the novel for it. He had also written the math formulas we see in the series to the point where the authors tell us to pay attention to them in an interview (here is the quote), meaning they aren't just sciency mumbo-jumbo. Where does that leave us? In the next chapter of the CRT, a complete upgrade to the verse in both dimensionality and qualitive superiority.A tier 1 overhaul
Part 1: The universe is BIG big
One of the main goals of this CRT is to get a proper understanding into the cosmology of Singular Point. One of those things is the understanding of how big the universe itself is. This has been bothering me and others for quite a while and the answer, at least in my eyes, is that it is certainly larger than 4D. To begin with, let us understand the nature of the universe as a whole.The universe in SP is a double whammy of sorts. There's our space, the visible cosmos, and then there's the hyperspace. Hyperspace, by definition, is higher-dimensional space. I was under the misconception that it could be separate from the universe but no, it is simply a higher end of it. The universe that humanity perceives seems to be considered separate and yet part of the same space-time, effectively meaning that they're under the same roof. The higher dimensions influence the lower ones and it is also clearly shown here that the higher dimensions mentioned aren't above time as I used to think myself. This will be cruical later.
The next point to tackle is - how many dimensions are there in the universe? My answer - enough to contain the archetype molecules within itself. The quote that is being used to argue for Countless-D Archetype molecules is as follows:
"Their tentacles extending from their bodies were not only connected to the three dimensions of length, width, and depth that make up this world, as well as the flowing fourth dimension, but they were also intersecting with countless other dimensions. While exploring the surface of the earth, they were simultaneously active, probing the seas of all possibilities."
Let's look at another quote here.
"It was expanding its domain by extending its arms into dimensions different from this one. They were taking on the role of new eyes for "it. In the same way that an eye with only the mechanism of a pinhole camera has acquired advanced functions, they have come to function as eyes that look down on dimensions. For them, the directions of the past and future were no different from the threads of their own nest. Prey captured in the past were sent into the future, and creatures captured in the future were also sent into the past."
Just to clarify, in the quote above "dimensions" uses the same kanji as the quote above that one, as in, both use 次元. You can't argue they're separate instances either cause the quotes are like one page away from each other.From this we can basically gather that 1) Kumonga are used to look on at dimensions, 2) the net used by Kumonga is within space-time and 3) the higher-dimensional net operates within space-time as well.
What good has this done? Well, we've proven that the higher-dimensional beings and the higher-dimensional net which operates using archetype molecules is all localized within the space-time in which the universe is located. This means that any threat to the space-time would equal in dimensional potency to the overall size of the space-time. But what is the size? There's two things that we need to see.
I fully credit Yayday for the following arguments.
1)
This arguments analyzes the notes found within the anime, notes made by Ashihara who was researching the Singular Point and the Archetype molecules. The calculations were made to analyze the aforementioned subjects and in it we find evidence of infinite dimensions existing. To dumb it down - the formula suggests that there's at least infinite dimensions of space due to the integral being used being written as "M" which, unlike the lower "m", is used for infinite or above numbers. Another important thing is that there's a time dimensions binding the whole thing. This will be important later.
2)Here's another argument presented by the person in question - the linguistic argument. This argument suggests that the word "無数", which referes to countless, innumerable, numberless or infinite, may be used by the author to refer to infinity or even uncountable infinity in that context.
Here's the quote of the actual argument being presented:
" “無数”cannot be 100% proven to be infinite. However, Toh Enjoe often uses the term "無数" to refer to infinity or even larger infinite cardinals. For example, in the novel, there is a passage mentioning that around Shiva, countless Closed Timelike Curves (CTCs) are generated, reaching a state of mathematical density.
一本、二本と数えられるような輪ではなく、時間を行って戻って閉じる輪が無数に絡まり 合っている。数学でいうところの「稠ちゆう密みつ」という用語が見合う。
In mathematics, "dense" means that for any point in a set, its neighborhood intersects with the set, or the closure of the set equals the entire space. The most classic example is the set of rational numbers being dense in the set of real numbers—between any two real numbers, there are infinitely many rational numbers.
The universe of Singular Point is continuous. This implies that even within a Planck-length volume of space, there are uncountably infinite CTCs. Thus, while it cannot be entirely ruled out, the possibility of infinite dimensions cannot be 100% dismissed either."
With the arguments presented I believe that it should be possible to upgrade the space-time of SP to High 1-B or High 1-B+
Part 1.5: Singular Point upscale
One possible thing I noticed, with this - there's a real argument for the Singular Point to scale higher.Here's a quote about it:
"The singularity cannot be destroyed. It is the nature of space-time, so to speak, that it cannot be destroyed from within space-time. It is like a character in a movie trying to break the screen. The singularity is just a hole given from outside the screen. The characters in the film don't have a hand to plug the hole."
This suggests that it cannot be destroyed from within space-time, suggesting it may be above the space-time itself. This is one of the best arguments supporting "It"s current 1-A rating since "It" is beyond this metaphorical "screen", but we never paid enough attention to the "hole" within that screen itself. Here's another quote:
"More than a billion means of attack were employed, almost all of which were prevented, but any one of them would have been sufficient to sever the cords that bind the singularity to this dimension." -p. 202
"While JJ is holding Gojira down, the anchor is eroded and Gojira loses its hold on the world. The pair of giant behemoths that remain on the site are the only ones that can be seen. - This is the case if we honestly consider the two sets of huge footprints that remain at the site. The activated orthogonal diagonalizer destroyed the ties between the singularity and this world, and as a product of this process, a blue crystalline body covering Tokyo and the world appeared." -p. 204
"The singularity forms an archetypal shell around itself, like an oyster shell. This shell is an anchor necessary to hold the singularity together in the world, and if it can be broken down, "the singularity will go home on its own." -p. 190
So the whole point of the plan to defeat Godzilla was to effectively erase the archetype molecules which bind the SP to the world, effectively de-anchoring the SP from the universe, expunging it. This also means that you can't actually hurt the singularity normally and that it is beyond the Archetype molecules it produces."While JJ is holding Gojira down, the anchor is eroded and Gojira loses its hold on the world. The pair of giant behemoths that remain on the site are the only ones that can be seen. - This is the case if we honestly consider the two sets of huge footprints that remain at the site. The activated orthogonal diagonalizer destroyed the ties between the singularity and this world, and as a product of this process, a blue crystalline body covering Tokyo and the world appeared." -p. 204
"The singularity forms an archetypal shell around itself, like an oyster shell. This shell is an anchor necessary to hold the singularity together in the world, and if it can be broken down, "the singularity will go home on its own." -p. 190
Now where does this lead us? Well, we know that the SP still has binds to the universe as it has a sort of space-time structure, we also know it is far below "It" and is but a point of contact, a hole made by the 1-A "It" to access the universe. This leads me to think that it has to be something in between. It clearly is beyond space and time as even entering it leads to time becoming effectively irrelevant and time encompasses all dimensions in this case. I think that there's a high likelyhood that the Singular Point is, in actuality, Low 1-A.
Part 2: Dreams within Dreams
After the fine mathematical arguments from the parts before, let's do something fun. Let's be very blatant. "It", as well as the tributaries that are part of it, are 1-A+. Let's get into that.First off, "It" is pretty much certainly 1-A. We already have that on the profile but we can still push it further. Outside of being above Low 1-A constructs and seeing things as comparable to fiction, we now have the quote above that suggests that the red dust creatures are used by "It" to look into dimensions like a pinhole camera. It is also apparent that the current dream quote is underexplored. Let's look at it:
" "It" was dreaming of the past, and in the past dreaming of the future, and in the future continued to dream of seeing the future from the past. If there was anything that "it" could call the present, it would be a collection of all sorts of dreams, where the past and future are intertwined as one wishes, where all possibilities were exhausted."
"Before "it" stretched the beach of Omura from 1954. Waking up from "its" dream of waking up, it once more woke up from a dream, dreaming within a dream. There were dreams within dreams within dreams, repeated to no end, and "it" was currently dreaming a dream which it would never wake up from, one that could be said to be a dream that nobody else could enter.
"It" has been defeated, knocked down, defeating, knocking down, crushing and overwhelming anything that stood in its way and yet, to "it", even that was of little consequence. "It" will encounter similar opponents over and over, new opponents over and over, repeat the same battles over and over - even after it had already won - for eternity until it achieved a complete and total victory. It had even defeated eternity itself. It had even defeated its own defeat, destroying every world in which it is defeated."
This was re-translated by @SeijiSetto, all credit goes to them."Before "it" stretched the beach of Omura from 1954. Waking up from "its" dream of waking up, it once more woke up from a dream, dreaming within a dream. There were dreams within dreams within dreams, repeated to no end, and "it" was currently dreaming a dream which it would never wake up from, one that could be said to be a dream that nobody else could enter.
"It" has been defeated, knocked down, defeating, knocking down, crushing and overwhelming anything that stood in its way and yet, to "it", even that was of little consequence. "It" will encounter similar opponents over and over, new opponents over and over, repeat the same battles over and over - even after it had already won - for eternity until it achieved a complete and total victory. It had even defeated eternity itself. It had even defeated its own defeat, destroying every world in which it is defeated."
To add to this, I have asked them about the 'infinite' part and whether it is legit and they've answered, and I quote, "yes explicitly infinite 果てはなく (adverbial form of 果はない, literally "without end"). It's also combined with どこまでいっても which is like "no matter how far you go" [or to that effect]. Combining those both i think it's pretty clear".
Originally I though that maybe the dreams could be "It waking up from a dream only to enter yet another dream" but at this point I don't think it can be argued, it is extremely explicitly stated that there's an infinite recursion of dreams within dreams within dreams.
I think this is a very clear case of 1-A+, aka infinite-layers into 1-A.
TL;DR: "It" sees time-space as a dream within a dream with no end to it. This means it is 1-A+. Ez.
Part 3: Big Brain Time
A certain translation was lost during the overall combing through the novel. It was lost because, whilst copying text, the text that was shown using images didn't get copied properly. I am talking about this part here. Look at the picture. It has pctc and pspace as images which is why the text ended up making less sense than it should. Put together properly it roughly translates to:"It's not just about increasing the number of possible methods. By utilizing closed timelike curves, supercomputing becomes possible. The computational complexity of PCTC is comparable to PSPACE. Simulation of complex molecular structures becomes feasible, and even the development of an "orthogonal diagonalizer"—a technology that was once considered a mere dream—becomes a reality. However, only Ashihara has succeeded in achieving this." - p. 110
"Another difference between us and Kaijus lies in the fact that Kaijus' computational resources are unlimited, and we could say that there is a computational Eden spreading out there." - p. 161
In this case we have infinite memory/space and we have infinite time
On average with Closed Time Curves it allows for the highest end Supercomputing on PSPACE level (PP), however when it comes to the Kaiju themselves I'd argue that they have a higher level, potentially surpassing even EXP and NEXP levels since the unlimited computational resources seem to apply mostly to the kaiju network in question, the computational eden. "Another difference between us and Kaijus lies in the fact that Kaijus' computational resources are unlimited, and we could say that there is a computational Eden spreading out there." - p. 161
In this case we have infinite memory/space and we have infinite time
This wouldn't give a higher intelligence rating but it would boost the supergenius rating they already have even further than before.
The ratings would be
SHIVA - Supergenius (Can preform hyperspatial and hypertemporal calculations, should be able to calculate the highest forms of PSPACE calculations (PP level) via the CTC)
JJ-PP - Supergenius (Exists as a result of Pero 2 entering and recreating itself again and again within the Singular Point, effectively becoming one with it and achieving an intelligence great enough to figure out a way to defeat Godzilla, something a PSPACE calculation (PP level) done by SHIVA could not figure out properly)
Kaiju - Supergenius (Possess unlimited computational resources which would make them similar in nature to Turing machines which are hypothetically capable of all forms of calculations, qualitively surpass their worldly forms which possess access to a sort of Computational Eden, a state that should be comparable to the SHIVA supercomputer humanity built around the singular point, which can calculate PSPACE-level problems with ease. Should be beyond the Singular Point overall in their true forms. )
Part 4: The Scaling
Now I think after all that it is time to explain who scales to what.-Everyone who currently has basic Hyperversal range gets High Hyperversal/High Hyperversal+range
-The Singular Point becomes Low Outerversal in its level of existence
-Godzilla and SHIVA:
These two get a special case. They are pretty much created around the same Singular Point, meaning all powers of the SP come from them.
"It took some effort to shoot down the robot, called Jet Jaguar, which flitted around like a small insect, but there was no matter, space-time, or causality in the universe that could not be torn apart by Gojira's atomic beam. Arikawa is in a crouching position, shielding his right hand and looking up at us. No one had ever stared at Gojira like this before"
"There was a concern about repeating small calculation loops into the future many times before the destruction, and above all, there was a possibility of losing control by overloading space-time in such a way."
"What Shiva will do is beyond human knowledge," BB replied. "Well," BB replied, "there's no doubt that there's something underground. Since we don't know what's going on, we'll just have to go and see for ourselves. Union Compound India's secret is a physical one. It is, to put it mildly, not something that should exist in the world and could cause any logical contradiction paradox at any moment. No one knows what would happen if a genuine paradox were to occur in nature. No one knows what would happen if a genuine paradox were to occur in nature, because nature has never experienced such a situation. However, it is said that it might have happened once, at the moment of the birth of the universe."
"
The flames emitted from Gojira's mouth would scorch the world, Arikawa, and Shiva.
Both the robot that collapsed beside Arikawa's body and the Pero 2 entity that had been noisily running around inside the singularity should have been able to be erased together, in one fell swoop, in one breath."
"There was a concern about repeating small calculation loops into the future many times before the destruction, and above all, there was a possibility of losing control by overloading space-time in such a way."
"What Shiva will do is beyond human knowledge," BB replied. "Well," BB replied, "there's no doubt that there's something underground. Since we don't know what's going on, we'll just have to go and see for ourselves. Union Compound India's secret is a physical one. It is, to put it mildly, not something that should exist in the world and could cause any logical contradiction paradox at any moment. No one knows what would happen if a genuine paradox were to occur in nature. No one knows what would happen if a genuine paradox were to occur in nature, because nature has never experienced such a situation. However, it is said that it might have happened once, at the moment of the birth of the universe."
"
The flames emitted from Gojira's mouth would scorch the world, Arikawa, and Shiva.
Both the robot that collapsed beside Arikawa's body and the Pero 2 entity that had been noisily running around inside the singularity should have been able to be erased together, in one fell swoop, in one breath."
So SHIVA can effectively re-create the universe through a paradox, same should go to Godzilla, Godzilla himself can effectively destroy Pero 2 (who is inside the low outer singular point) and any space-time within the universe.
I propose High 1-B/High 1-B+ for SHIVA via paradoxes, Varies, up to High 1-B/High 1-B+, likely Low 1-A with CTC Laser for Godzilla (his beam varies in power as at first JJ tanks it and then Godzilla intensifies its power to the point where he melts right through him).
-Omega Point: Would tear apart the singular point, as stated in the profile, making it Low 1-A
-"It" and the true forms of the red dust creatures: 1-A+
-Same goes for the hax that currently scales to 1-A
Minor Addition: here it is explained that the red dust creatures would literally bring their imagination into reality. This should be subjective reality rather than reality warping.
Minor Addition 2: Remove the 'possibly higher' stuff from Rodan since we don't actually know what and how the creatures will operate and how they will change the universe and over what time.
That is all.
