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Gojo vs Wonder of U

Dr._whiteee said:
The two ways I can see Gojo winning would be incap via domain or landing a hollow purple which can void type 2 info.
Click to expand...
Would overloading his mind with information even work? WoU's been described as an 'automatic-tracking energy', 'calamity energy' and 'disaster given form', and acts completely independently from Tooru and his conscious, especially posthumously when WoU was attacking seemingly without a conscious
Dr._whiteee said:
I think this would be covered by voiding info type 2 but I may be unaware of some ontological thing from Jojo's that would bar this, is there?
Click to expand...
There is regarding fate and gravity/spin in Jojo but it's really long and fucky and will take too long to explain here.
Tldr, WoU ability inherently ***** with that shit (which is technically 4d in nature) and you'll need something on that level to beat him

Though I'm not sure that Gojo get his domain and hollow purple off. If we say that Gojo is protected by infinity and ain't apart of the world (if im understanding it correctly), his other techniques that extend outside of it would be part of the world and subject to calamity. Though some stuff implies he should be able to target gojo anyway

Calamity been described as:

'Everything in his world... All things under Heaven and earth... and the connections between them!!! None of them will be on your side'

and asbr recently described it as 'universal laws'

If Sukuna took out Gojo by targeting all of existence, then calamity should encompass all of existence too and target gojo, with 'all things under heaven and earth' and 'universal laws' implying as such

Dr._whiteee said:
I would argue yes, regular sorceros can see cursed spirits which cannot be seen by regular humans or picked up by video. Gojo himself can see a layer further and see things such as souls in their true form in the void as he did when he found out Sukuna's plan of diverting UV to Megumi.
Click to expand...
maybe but i'm not sure if that's good enough.
  • Regular ghosts and spirits can't be perceived by regular people.
  • Stand users (with their stands) can't be perceived by ghosts and sprits.
  • WoU (not in chain) can't be perceived by stands users.
So there's 3 layers there. Not withstanding there's some fucky stuff involved like you can only perceive stands with your hearts eye and shit like that
 
DRW001 said:
Would overloading his mind with information even work? WoU's been described as an 'automatic-tracking energy', 'calamity energy' and 'disaster given form', and acts completely independently from Tooru and his conscious, especially posthumously when WoU was attacking seemingly without a conscious
Click to expand...
Yeah, if it can process information it'd be affected.
DRW001 said:
Though I'm not sure that Gojo get his domain and hollow purple off. If we say that Gojo is protected by infinity and ain't apart of the world (if im understanding it correctly), his other techniques that extend outside of it would be part of the world and subject to calamity. Though some stuff implies he should be able to target gojo anyway
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From what was posted earlier, he would still need to target Gojo to affect his techniques as was the case with the Joskue attack. I could be wrong though. Albeit things would get muddy then, as red/blue are just applications of his concept stuff into reality, and Hollow Purple is "imaginary mass" (conceptual) so he'd need to be able to interact with that as well.
DRW001 said:
Calamity been described as:

'Everything in his world... All things under Heaven and earth... and the connections between them!!! None of them will be on your side'

and asbr recently described it as 'universal laws'

If Sukuna took out Gojo by targeting all of existence, then calamity should encompass all of existence too and target gojo, with 'all things under heaven and earth' and 'universal laws' implying as such
Click to expand...
The laws that govern reality =/ all of reality so that'd be a major equivocation fallacy.

You also can't just equalize across as such, Sukuna need to target the concept of existence itself. This also goes back to how JJK's reality is set up with Void > Info type 2 > Spiritual/physical split. So nothing implies that Gojo's infinity space will be beholden to calamity automatically especially with the NPI problem.
DRW001 said:
maybe but i'm not sure if that's good enough.
  • Regular ghosts and spirits can't be perceived by regular people.
Click to expand...
Which is the same regarding cursed spirits and regular people.
DRW001 said:
  • Stand users (with their stands) can't be perceived by ghosts and sprits.
Click to expand...
Not that I don't believe this but can you post the proof for this so I can see the context?
DRW001 said:
  • WoU (not in chain) can't be perceived by stands users.
So there's 3 layers there. Not withstanding there's some fucky stuff involved like you can only perceive stands with your hearts eye and shit like that
Click to expand...
Yeah I would say it'll be pretty close given that Gojo can see the void/soul given the layers of ontology in JJK.
 
I don't have time atm to make this a whole long ass debate and i aint reading the last two pages but...
Dr._whiteee said:
I would argue yes, regular sorceros can see cursed spirits which cannot be seen by regular humans or picked up by video. Gojo himself can see a layer further and see things such as souls in their true form in the void as he did when he found out Sukuna's plan of diverting UV to Megumi.
Click to expand...
Stand Users have layered perception shit too, they're a level above ghosts, souls, yokai and so on, and Joubin (stand user) couldn't perceive WoU.
Dr._whiteee said:
Yeah, if it can process information it'd be affected.
Click to expand...
And then what? Calamity itself wouldn't stop, WoU makes it abundantly clear Calamity happens without it doing anything, it's automatic even to it, he's just a catalyst that if you see, chase, or want to beat, will activate it.

I'd also like to point out, Calamity isn't just "thing come towards you and hits you", we see multiple times it can get way more fucky, from taking control away of your own abilities to **** you over, causing you to make a mistake and attack yourself, to even just more wacky stuff like early onset of a disease (for example, Tsurugi or Lucy, it also makes it so any injury or wound you do have, just gets way worse, like Norisuke's wounds immediately acting up again, or Lucy's lung disease, if Gojo has any scars for example, those things def opening back up), 100% probability of things that have a chance to happen that are detrimental to do so (it affects probability and fate), even just making you trip and then losing your limbs, and Calamity messes with fate and gravity, which in JoJo context, is some wacky 4D stuff that has a long list of shit it messes with in regards to cosmology.

Any reason why Calamity can't mess with Infinity itself or Gojo's ability to use it, as that's a thing Calamity can do and it's messed with its foe's abilities a tad in order to make a Calamity. (Calamiy also helps, WoU, see him saying that he was guaranteed to gain the Rokakaka and that it would eventually arrive to him, how it did so he wasn't sure, just that it would happen because it's a flow that was guaranteed).

And like, WoU doesn't have to be where you are for you to be affected, we see with Rai that he was in the flow for nearly 15 years, ultimately leading to his death in a WoU encounter, and Josuke hiding out for a whole week and nearly dying the moment he wanted to meet WoU, and then shortly after, nearly dying again while WoU was nowhere around, thrice even, because he thought of beating him.
WoU is almost never actually present when someone gets caught in a Calamity (notwithstanding Yasuho/Josuke at T.G, but that was after a week and because he had to actively communicate with both to get the Rokakaka, and even then some dudes got ****** as collateral. Two of the Josuke's times at T.G he wasn't present anyway), he usually pops in to get them to chase and get caught in the chain, then vanishes because that's a thing he can do, and then when he's long gone, Calamity takes effect.
Which is to say, when will Gojo ever even get a chance to beat him?
Gojo will be caught in the flow, and then WoU will dip out, Toru will dip out, and now everything is colluding against Gojo and he can't do anything about it because his enemies ****** off and now just waiting it out and SBA def doesn't help as it puts him in a state of mind of wanting to beat his foe.

What I'm getting at is, how long can Gojo wait it out? Remember, WoU can, and will, play the long game (unironically its default strategy), can Gojo go weeks, if not longer, without even drinking for example? Because he'd need to as Calamity also affects things like your food and drinks, thus if WoU decides to **** off in that time (which it will, probably the moment the match begins), what's Gojo gonna do? Can he really outlast a natural law that will never go away, that doesn't even need to be near him to affect him and is completely willing to just wait till his foes die, whether it be exhaustion, unable to avoid calamity anymore, or through their own hands.
 
Chariot190 said:
I don't have time atm to make this a whole long ass debate and i aint reading the last two pages but...

Stand Users have layered perception shit too, they're a level above ghosts, souls, yokai and so on, and Joubin (stand user) couldn't perceive WoU.

And then what? Calamity itself wouldn't stop, WoU makes it abundantly clear Calamity happens without it doing anything, it's automatic even to it, he's just a catalyst that if you see, chase, or want to beat, will activate it.

I'd also like to point out, Calamity isn't just "thing come towards you and hits you", we see multiple times it can get way more fucky, from taking control away of your own abilities to **** you over, causing you to make a mistake and attack yourself, to even just more wacky stuff like early onset of a disease (for example, Tsurugi or Lucy, it also makes it so any injury or wound you do have, just gets way worse, like Norisuke's wounds immediately acting up again, or Lucy's lung disease, if Gojo has any scars for example, those things def opening back up), 100% probability of things that have a chance to happen that are detrimental to do so (it affects probability and fate), even just making you trip and then losing your limbs, and Calamity messes with fate and gravity, which in JoJo context, is some wacky 4D stuff that has a long list of shit it messes with in regards to cosmology.

Any reason why Calamity can't mess with Infinity itself or Gojo's ability to use it, as that's a thing Calamity can do and it's messed with its foe's abilities a tad in order to make a Calamity. (Calamiy also helps, WoU, see him saying that he was guaranteed to gain the Rokakaka and that it would eventually arrive to him, how it did so he wasn't sure, just that it would happen because it's a flow that was guaranteed).

And like, WoU doesn't have to be where you are for you to be affected, we see with Rai that he was in the flow for nearly 15 years, ultimately leading to his death in a WoU encounter, and Josuke hiding out for a whole week and nearly dying the moment he wanted to meet WoU, and then shortly after, nearly dying again while WoU was nowhere around, thrice even, because he thought of beating him.
WoU is almost never actually present when someone gets caught in a Calamity (notwithstanding Yasuho/Josuke at T.G, but that was after a week and because he had to actively communicate with both to get the Rokakaka, and even then some dudes got ****** as collateral. Two of the Josuke's times at T.G he wasn't present anyway), he usually pops in to get them to chase and get caught in the chain, then vanishes because that's a thing he can do, and then when he's long gone, Calamity takes effect.
Which is to say, when will Gojo ever even get a chance to beat him?
Gojo will be caught in the flow, and then WoU will dip out, Toru will dip out, and now everything is colluding against Gojo and he can't do anything about it because his enemies ****** off and now just waiting it out and SBA def doesn't help as it puts him in a state of mind of wanting to beat his foe.

What I'm getting at is, how long can Gojo wait it out? Remember, WoU can, and will, play the long game (unironically its default strategy), can Gojo go weeks, if not longer, without even drinking for example? Because he'd need to as Calamity also affects things like your food and drinks, thus if WoU decides to **** off in that time (which it will, probably the moment the match begins), what's Gojo gonna do? Can he really outlast a natural law that will never go away, that doesn't even need to be near him to affect him and is completely willing to just wait till his foes die, whether it be exhaustion, unable to avoid calamity anymore, or through their own hands.
Click to expand...
Wait your actually really skilled can you check my thread? I would love your input thanks in advance bro
 
what thread? im only here because i was put at gunpoint and im probably dipping anyway
i just wanna play my funny meme game today....
 
Chariot190 said:
Stand Users have layered perception shit too, they're a level above ghosts, souls, yokai and so on, and Joubin (stand user) couldn't perceive WoU.
Click to expand...
Yeah but the soul in JJK is inherently layered and Gojo can see through to the void, which is even further layered beyond souls, and info type 2. so we're talking about ontology that inherently supercedes spirits, ghosts, etc.
Chariot190 said:
And then what? Calamity itself wouldn't stop, WoU makes it abundantly clear Calamity happens without it doing anything, it's automatic even to it, he's just a catalyst that if you see, chase, or want to beat, will activate it.
Click to expand...
If the user and stand are incapacitated and calamity isn't doing anything to Gojo, that sounds like a Gojo W.
Chariot190 said:
I'd also like to point out, Calamity isn't just "thing come towards you and hits you", we see multiple times it can get way more fucky, from taking control away of your own abilities to **** you over, causing you to make a mistake and attack yourself, to even just more wacky stuff like early onset of a disease (for example, Tsurugi or Lucy, it also makes it so any injury or wound you do have, just gets way worse, like Norisuke's wounds immediately acting up again, or Lucy's lung disease, if Gojo has any scars for example, those things def opening back up), 100% probability of things that have a chance to happen that are detrimental to do so (it affects probability and fate), even just making you trip and then losing your limbs, and Calamity messes with fate and gravity, which in JoJo context, is some wacky 4D stuff that has a long list of shit it messes with in regards to cosmology.

Any reason why Calamity can't mess with Infinity itself or Gojo's ability to use it, as that's a thing Calamity can do and it's messed with its foe's abilities a tad in order to make a Calamity. (Calamiy also helps, WoU, see him saying that he was guaranteed to gain the Rokakaka and that it would eventually arrive to him, how it did so he wasn't sure, just that it would happen because it's a flow that was guaranteed).
Click to expand...
I don't see how any of this proves he can interact with Infinity. You haven't addressed my argument regarding this. Sure, if Gojo can be affected by calamity then your above is true. I haven't seen anything to suggest it can though so far.
Chariot190 said:
And like, WoU doesn't have to be where you are for you to be affected, we see with Rai that he was in the flow for nearly 15 years, ultimately leading to his death in a WoU encounter, and Josuke hiding out for a whole week and nearly dying the moment he wanted to meet WoU, and then shortly after, nearly dying again while WoU was nowhere around, thrice even, because he thought of beating him.
WoU is almost never actually present when someone gets caught in a Calamity (notwithstanding Yasuho/Josuke at T.G, but that was after a week and because he had to actively communicate with both to get the Rokakaka, and even then some dudes got ****** as collateral. Two of the Josuke's times at T.G he wasn't present anyway), he usually pops in to get them to chase and get caught in the chain, then vanishes because that's a thing he can do, and then when he's long gone, Calamity takes effect.
Click to expand...
Same with above, I am not convinced Gojo can be targetted by Calamity so this is mostly irrelevant to my position.
Chariot190 said:
Which is to say, when will Gojo ever even get a chance to beat him?
Gojo will be caught in the flow, and then WoU will dip out, Toru will dip out, and now everything is colluding against Gojo and he can't do anything about it because his enemies ****** off and now just waiting it out and SBA def doesn't help as it puts him in a state of mind of wanting to beat his foe.
Click to expand...
Yeah see, this is where we disagree, you're assuming Calamity is going to affect him for the stand to be so blaze. I'm saying it won't.

The moment brolmes gets in DE range, he's liable to become a veggie and this would also incap him and make him a sitting taret for Hollow purple.
Chariot190 said:
What I'm getting at is, how long can Gojo wait it out? Remember, WoU can, and will, play the long game (unironically its default strategy), can Gojo go weeks, if not longer, without even drinking for example? Because he'd need to as Calamity also affects things like your food and drinks, thus if WoU decides to **** off in that time (which it will, probably the moment the match begins), what's Gojo gonna do? Can he really outlast a natural law that will never go away, that doesn't even need to be near him to affect him and is completely willing to just wait till his foes die, whether it be exhaustion, unable to avoid calamity anymore, or through their own hands.
Click to expand...
Yuh, still not seeing how calamity impacts him here. Sounds like best case scenario is incon if brolmes is just gonna run away when he realizes he can't do anything to Gojo. But that presumes he can get by gojo with six eyes, KMs worth of vision, and teleportation.
 
Dr._whiteee said:
Yeah but the soul in JJK is inherently layered and Gojo can see through to the void, which is even further layered beyond souls, and info type 2. so we're talking about ontology that inherently supercedes spirits, ghosts, etc.
Click to expand...
So? That just puts him on the same level as a Stand User, who can't see Wou.
Dr._whiteee said:
If the user and stand are incapacitated and calamity isn't doing anything to Gojo, that sounds like a Gojo W.
Click to expand...
What? Ignoring the fact WU and Toru are dipping the literal moment the match starts, Calamity will never not be trying to get him, the very fact he harmed them means the instant it can, he will die. And Gojo can't outlast Calamity as a whole.
Dr._whiteee said:
I don't see how any of this proves he can interact with Infinity. You haven't addressed my argument regarding this. Sure, if Gojo can be affected by calamity then your above is true. I haven't seen anything to suggest it can though so far.
Click to expand...
It's thought based? He doesn't need to interact with Infinity, the act of being inducted into the chain, it bypasses it completely. Or better yet, it just uses its ability to mess with one's powers and just makes Infinity not work as intended, or at all, or makes it so some stuff can bypass it? Gojo has absolutely no resistance to this type of thing.

I didn't address it because it doesn't need to be addressed to begin with.
Dr._whiteee said:
Same with above, I am not convinced Gojo can be targetted by Calamity so this is mostly irrelevant to my position.
Click to expand...
Well, that sounds like a you issue because I haven't seen anything that dictates he couldn't, and even if he can't, for argument's sake, WoU's ability to mess with abilities would negate that worry entirely, after all, he doesn't need to interact with Gojo in that case only Infinity - the ability itself, which most certainly is situated within reality, even if you argue that Gojo himself isn't and ngl, that seems like ludicrous extrapolation off funny distance hax
Dr._whiteee said:
Yeah see, this is where we disagree, you're assuming Calamity is going to affect him for the stand to be so blaze. I'm saying it won't.
Click to expand...
Do you really need to type that out every time? Kind of annoying you couldve just quoted all 3 and said it once.
And uh, yeah? WoU also will stay away at all times even normally? The most it does is show up for a second, then vanishes. It's going to do exactly that even if Gojo isn't affected, and if Gojo isn't affected, it's going to pick up on that immediately and work around it, which is to say nah, Gojo will never get the chance to beat WoU or Toru, they're both ******* off right away no matter what happens. And from there, they work around it. But as said, you're kinda of extrapolating the utter hell out of what Infinity even is, does it exist in the universe? If the answer is yes, it's subject to Calamity.

And another thing, any reason why Gojo would even have Calamity, a completely abstract 4D universal law that he's never even heard of that he can't readily perceive (and that's not even the Stand body, I'm talking about the actual noncorporal law that's imperceptible even to it), as something Infinity would have on the black list to begin with? I think you're putting your cart before your horse there mate and assuming it's even going to be negated to begin with without prior knowledge.
Dr._whiteee said:
Yuh, still not seeing how calamity impacts him here. Sounds like best case scenario is incon if brolmes is just gonna run away when he realizes he can't do anything to Gojo. But that presumes he can get by gojo with six eyes, KMs worth of vision, and teleportation.
Click to expand...
Uh, WoU has shown to teleport like 10ish KM in an instant so like, yeah, probably, very easily in fact.
 
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Actually tho
When did they ever say Infinity acts like a completely different space-time exempt from reality?

I'm like 95% sure it's funny distance spatial hax mixed with a few extra things. Saying it's an alt dimension is like saying Green, Green Grass of Home puts the child in an alt dimension, or Johnny's Tusk Act 3 holes except that one actually spirals down into infinity, and lets him bridge the gap between dimensions, but like, before it gets to the singularity point, it aint an alt world
 
If it isn't on the profile, I don't wanna use it
otherwise we may as well start cooking up the fact WoU is probably a mechanism, not a "Stand" and thus has nothing to do with souls yet still has that funny like +3/4 perception manip, and the fact he 100% has Multi-Location too, the ability just didn't exist when the profile dropped so teleporation/duplication is there instead, and im to lazy to make a CRT to swap them out
 
Chariot190 said:
So? That just puts him on the same level as a Stand User, who can't see Wou.
Click to expand...
Stand users can see the fundamental information that comprises and the false duality of matter/soul and into the void that underlies said information? I didn't see that on the profiles.
Chariot190 said:
What? Ignoring the fact WU and Toru are dipping the literal moment the match starts, Calamity will never not be trying to get him, the very fact he harmed them means the instant it can, he will die. And Gojo can't outlast Calamity as a whole.
Click to expand...
Can you show scans of the IC dip at match start?

You also didn't address how it's going to act when getting flooded with an infinite stream of info.
Chariot190 said:
It's thought based? He doesn't need to interact with Infinity, the act of being inducted into the chain, it bypasses it completely. Or better yet, it just uses its ability to mess with one's powers and just makes Infinity not work as intended, or at all, or makes it so some stuff can bypass it? Gojo has absolutely no resistance to this type of thing.
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Ok? Being thought based doesn't allow it to bypass infinity.

Yes he will need to interact with Infinity, you didn't prove that assertion. If he can't interact with Infinity he is never going to be able to effect Gojo who is essentially in his own dimension.

Yeah no, you can't give him abilities outside of the scope of what he's shown. Type 2 concept of Infinity would be way outside of his scope.
Chariot190 said:
I didn't address it because it doesn't need to be addressed to begin with.
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That's not how debating works.
Chariot190 said:
Well, that sounds like a you issue because I haven't seen anything that dictates he couldn't, and even if he can', for argument's sake, WoU's ability to mess with abilities would negate that worry entirely,
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No it wouldn't you are using circular logic here. You need to prove at it's core, that calamity and the stand can interface with the conceptual infinity. He can't powernull something he can't interact with, he can't "mess with infinity" if he can't interact with it, and Gojo will never be targeted thanks to infinity, meaning he is never getting the misfortune from it.

Once again, CT in jujutsu utilizing concept targeting as the basis for their techniques, and someone like Yuki, was able to make herself untargetable via morphing her mass, and we already know that others can't target Gojo through infinity even if they can see him and spawn on target attacks to where they "think" he is.
Chariot190 said:
after all, he doesn't need to interact with Gojo in that case only Infinity - the ability itself, which most certainly is situated within reality, even if you argue that Gojo himself isn't and ngl, that seems like ludicrous extrapolation off funny distance hax
Click to expand...
Ok and that leaves you at square one still, how is he interacting with Infinity as a power when he doesn't have the NPI?
Chariot190 said:
Do you really need to type that out every time? Kind of annoying you couldve just quoted all 3 and said it once.
And uh, yeah? WoU also will stay away at all times even normally? The most it does is show up for a second,
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Sounds like he can still be hit with a domain expansion, which inherently traps him in pocket reality via void manip and powernulls any defense/instantly fills him with infinite info.
Chariot190 said:
It's going to do exactly that even if Gojo isn't affected, and if Gojo isn't affected, it's going to pick up on that immediately and work around it, which is to say nah, Gojo will never get the chance to beat WoU or Toru, they're both ******* off right away no matter what happens. And from there, they work around it. But as said, you're kinda of extrapolating he utter hell out of what Infinity even is, does it exist in the universe? If the answer is yes, it's subject to Calamity.
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I'm not, you're literally trying to shoehorn calamity to interacting with things it never has.

Yeah, the universe within Jojo. Infinity is not in Jojo's and the stand has never interacted with a dimension like infinity. So please stop the nonsense claims about me stretching things when you're literally trying to skirt how abilities interact.
Chariot190 said:
And another thing, any reason why Gojo would even have Calamity, a completely abstract 4D universal law that he's never even heard of that he can't readily perceive (and that's not even the Stand body, I'm talking about the actual noncorporal law that's imperceptible even to it), as something Infinity would have on the black list to begin with? I think you're putting your cart before your horse there mate and assuming it's even going to be negated to begin with without prior knowledge.
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Why wouldn't it? Gojo doesn't have to consciously check boxes for his infinity which is active 24/7 for him and also protects him from esoteric threats. Jujutsu itself is inherently conceptual in nature to boot, so I don't really see how that'd be relevant.
Chariot190 said:
Uh, WoU has shown to teleport like 10ish KM in an instant so like, yeah, probably, very easily in fact.
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Well gojo teleported from the bottom of the Mariana trench to Kenjaku's position in Japan in an instant, so I'd say they are about equal then.
 
LordGinSama said:
What's the arguments so far?
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I am arguing that due to the conceptual targeting nature of jujutsu and Infinity being type 2 concepts, that the stand will be unable to effectively target Gojo as a "pursuer" and thus calamity will never added it to the chain of misfortune.
 
Dr._whiteee said:
I am arguing that due to the conceptual targeting nature of jujutsu and Infinity being type 2 concepts, that the stand will be unable to effectively target Gojo as a "pursuer" and thus calamity will never added it to the chain of misfortune.
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Now for that I think it'd depend on one's interpretation since Stands can effect things similar to Type 2 CM. But that requires how you think Wonder of U would effect other Stand abilities tbh.
 
LordGinSama said:
Now for that I think it'd depend on one's interpretation since Stands can effect things similar to Type 2 CM. But that requires how you think Wonder of U would effect other Stand abilities tbh.
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Idk concept type 2 is something pretty specific, especially in gojo's case and given the inherent nature of CT and reality as a whole in JJK. I mean, Yuki has a much worse defense than Limitless and was able to straight up avoid all targeting by simply making her concept undefined. Gojo is constantly being benefitted by his concept being inside Infinity which is why spawn on target stuff like cleave/dismantle and Jogo's heat still won't work. Jogo himself swore up and down he hit Gojo even.
 
Dr._whiteee said:
Stand users can see the fundamental information that comprises and the false duality of matter/soul and into the void that underlies said information? I didn't see that on the profiles.
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What? That doesn't matter, it's still layered all the same.
A normal basic bitch ghost with +5 layers like Darmani from Zelda idk why that mf has five layers, and 3 layers above normal zelda ghosts, but he do wouldn't be seen by Gojo either, despite "just" being a ghost, it simply has too many layers of "dudes who can see stuff, can't see this"
What matters is how many bullshit layers it has.

They're tied here, and WoU's perception manip which gojo has zero res too btw makes it so he can't unless inducted.
Dr._whiteee said:
Can you show scans of the IC dip at match start?
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They're on the profile? Like, a fuckton? I know because I'm the dude who added them all 🗿
You also didn't address how it's going to act when getting flooded with an infinite stream of info.
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The fact it doesn't need to? Calamity is 100% automatic, kill Toru, incap WoU, none of that matters, Calamity, the universal law that WoU's stand body is just an abstract avatar of, will continue all the same. Neither Toru nor WoU itself have any control over it, it acts automatically, and neither needs to be aware of it, and most of the time, aren't aware of it, they just kinda let it happen.

Also, also, by dipping and not getting hit by that at all because that isn't something Gojo leads with 0.1 seconds into a fight with an unknown foe? Also, also the fact WoU has teleportation and can definitely just escape in under 1/10th of a second.
Dr._whiteee said:
Ok? Being thought based doesn't allow it to bypass infinity.
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You misunderstood, it's based on Gojo's thoughts, not his. If Gojo thinks "man, i wanna meet him, fight him, get in his way, etc", he's inducted.
Yes he will need to interact with Infinity, you didn't prove that assertion. If he can't interact with Infinity he is never going to be able to effect Gojo who is essentially in his own dimension.
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I want a statement saying this. Explicitly.
Yeah no, you can't give him abilities outside of the scope of what he's shown. Type 2 concept of Infinity would be way outside of his scope.
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??????????????
Actually thinking on it, not really? Calamity is a "flow", which as we see in Part 7, actually CAN wacky infinity shit via Johnny's Holes that spiral down into infinity and enter the gap between dimensions, but ignoring that.
Dude it's a type of power null, Gojo ain't resisting shit.
Dr._whiteee said:
That's not how debating works.
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I'm not really here to convince you, and most people seem to be fine with it so....
Dr._whiteee said:
No it wouldn't you are using circular logic here. You need to prove at it's core, that calamity and the stand can interface with the conceptual infinity. He can't powernull something he can't interact with, he can't "mess with infinity" if he can't interact with it, and Gojo will never be targeted thanks to infinity, meaning he is never getting the misfortune from it.
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No offense, but you're wanking the **** out of funny distance hax and extrapolating it to be "well it's KINDA like a different space-time", then acting like it literally is, when it isn't, at all. In reality, I shouldn't even be humoring this, Gojo and Infinity still exist in reality, they can still be targeted by the law that encompasses the whole world. In fact, it took an attack literally not existing fused with an energy that surpasses all the laws of the world to hit him.
Once again, CT in jujutsu utilizing concept targeting as the basis for their techniques, and someone like Yuki, was able to make herself untargetable via morphing her mass, and we already know that others can't target Gojo through infinity even if they can see him and spawn on target attacks to where they "think" he is.
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Calamity is a whole ass universal law that covers the whole universe my dude, they don't "need" to target him, he already exists within its range, unless he LITERALLY doesn't exist or isn't a part of reality (being an infinite distance away, in the center of reality, is still being in reality my dude).
Dr._whiteee said:
k and that leaves you at square one still, how is he interacting with Infinity as a power when he doesn't have the NPI?
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He does have NPI tho? Layered even. Bro's a Stand.
Dr._whiteee said:
Sounds like he can still be hit with a domain expansion, which inherently traps him in pocket reality via void manip and powernulls any defense/instantly fills him with infinite info.
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Vanishes the moment the match starts, like I can not stress enough he doesn't stick around, he even has a standard tactics section saying as much. Also the fact he can exist multiple places at the same time, and demanifest at will.
Like bro can just like, demanifest himself and choose not to exist anymore in the DE.
Dr._whiteee said:
'm not, you're literally trying to shoehorn calamity to interacting with things it never has.

Yeah, the universe within Jojo. Infinity is not in Jojo's and the stand has never interacted with a dimension like infinity. So please stop the nonsense claims about me stretching things when you're literally trying to skirt how abilities interact.
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Ignoring the fact Calamity is an aspect of 'Flow', which has given 'Flow' is an aspect of fate. Infinity isn't even an alt dimension wtf 😭
Why wouldn't it? Gojo doesn't have to consciously check boxes for his infinity which is active 24/7 for him and also protects him from esoteric threats. Jujutsu itself is inherently conceptual in nature to boot, so I don't really see how that'd be relevant.
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I'm taking this admission he won't, you basically just said "he has this other stuff added so this would too".
He doesn't need to check it constantly, and yeah, it's automatic, but it's only automatic AFTER he adds said thing to it, he still has to have it set so it's a thing it negates it in the first place.
Calamity is an abstract universal law, 4D in nature, that manipulates even fate itself. JJK having concepts doesn't segue into it being the same, and even then, Gojo would need to decide which "concepts" even then. And hell, what about Stand energy? That's also a completely distinct energy form you even need layered NPI to interact with that is unlike anything in JJK that Gojo would have absolutely no idea that it existed and thus wouldn't have Infinity set to negate it to start with.

And yes, case and point, Infinity doesn't exist in JoJo id argue Love Train is what you're trying to argue Infinity acts like to, as that's an actual alternate dimension the user is within that things cant reach but, neither does Calamity in JJK, as such, here's absolutely no reason to think Gojo would have Infinity set up to negate it.
Dr._whiteee said:
Well gojo teleported from the bottom of the Mariana trench to Kenjaku's position in Japan in an instant, so I'd say they are about equal then.
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So? It doesn't matter how good his teleportation is if he doesn't know where they ****** off to, which, he won't. Like, a dude can have 1000km TP, that ain't helping him find where Batman went.

also none of this explains how Gojo is getting past the fact he's going to literally starve to death because any food and drink he attempts to consume will instantly become tainted and riddled with diseases and aids before he even touches it. I 100% know Infinity ain't saving the pack of doritos or bottled water from getting hit by calamity.
LordGinSama said:
But that requires how you think Wonder of U would effect other Stand abilities tbh.
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WOU could effect Josuke's Stand bubbles and Explosive Spin Bubbles, so it can effect Stand energy.
 
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No way you're taking that and extrapolating it to mean whole ass alt dimension.
And I don't want fan infographics, I want an actual statement saying Gojo isn't apart of reality anymore, or, Infinity functions as an alt-space time, an ACTUAL alt dimension, instead of just, ya know, infinite distance.
 
Chariot190 said:
No way you're taking that and extrapolating it to mean whole ass alt dimension.
And I don't want fan infographics, I want an actual statement saying Gojo isn't apart of reality anymore, or, Infinity functions as an alt-space time, an ACTUAL alt dimension, instead of just, ya know, infinite distance.
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You won't find anything of that kind.
Sukuna states Gojo exists inside the world so I don't see where him existing in different dimension or alt space comes from. Gojo is still a part of the reality as far as I see. He just uses infinity as shield that's all
15-6iTWpNX2QmzgK.jpg

Gege's note
rkfoOpB-0014-019.png
 
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