Goku vs Superman Stats =ized

[Schnee_One]

But still bad

 

[Akreious]

The **** are you talking about?!

He touched an intagible thing! That means he can effect them.

You're saying that I can touch this thing, but can't hurt it. That literally makes no sense. If I can touch it, I can punch it. What are you even saying, explain your logic please. Because it makes no sense.

Edit:

Another example; I can touch shadows and visibly effect them. There is a creature made of shadows. So even though I can touch and effect shadows, I still can't harm said creature even though my actions and effects work through shadows as well?

 

[DragonEmperor23]

hey I mean no one is insulting other users so it's pretty good all things considered.

 

[Schnee_One]

It's....Really simple logic.

Yes, you can physically touch something intangible, that doesn't allow you to do physical harm to it if you punch it though.

Yes, I can touch it, but I can't hurt it.

Weirdly enough, I don't know if Goku actually did that correct me if I'm wrong

 

[Akreious]

"Yes, you can physically touch something intangible, that doesn't allow you to do physical harm to it if you punch it though."

Wait. What? Okay explain to me how that makes any sense again?

I am currently seeing these effects as a status effect.

Person A has the "Intangible" effect. This attack also has the "Intangible" status effect. If I can bypass the attack's intangible effect, by proxy, I can bypass the Person's Intangible effect. Same effect, just applied to different things. If I can bypass one, I can bypass the other.

 

[Schnee_One]

Think of it like this.

You can touch this intangible being, but when you punch it, it does no damage

Anyway, we're derailing

 

[Akreious]

Why would it deal no damage?

You can bypass the intangibility and effect intangibles, so your force from your punch should be able to effect intangible beings.

 

[Schnee_One]

<Effect

Touching isn't an effect.

 

[The_Causality]

Er.....

 

[Akreious]

Touching isn't an effect...?

"ef┬Àfect

ə╦êfekt/

nou

1. 1.

a change that is a result or consequence of an action or other cause." I think touching is very much an effect.

 

[Landon_Avery]

Touching isn't an effect...?
"ef┬Àfect

ə╦êfekt/

nou

1. 1.

a change that is a result or consequence of an action or other cause." I think touching is very much an effect.

I'm with Akreious on this point. That said I don't think Superman needs to be intangible to win here. He's still way smarter and has much greater stamina, plus the closer he get's to the sun the faster he can heal from Goku's attacks and the easier it'll be to outlast Goku's UI form.

 

[Akreious]

"He's still way smarter"

I'd argue in terms of sheer combat smarts, Goku is at least equal.

" much greater stamina, plus the closer he get's to the sun the faster he can heal from Goku's attacks and the easier it'll be to outlast Goku's UI form" And if goku in a last ditch effort teleports them to king kai's planet?

 

[Landon_Avery]

Read last comment.

 

[Schnee_One]

Taking Superman to king Kai's planet is an instawin in favor if Superman via PRAISE the sun

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Goku only did that with Cell because he was going to blow up. I see no reason why he would do that to Superman.

 

[Thelastmlg]

wait is strenght equalized? if not then how is superman gonna harm goku besides heat vision?

 

[Schnee_One]

Yes it is

 

[Amexim]

The argument that touching something lightly is different enough from touching something with much more force to let intangibility (defined as the trait o not being able to be touched) activate for only one of these things is bull. For one, if you can touch intangible things, you can touch intangible things hard. Which is what punching is. This is extremely dishonest.

That being said, Superman has infinite stamina. Goku can't win this fight for that reason specifically. If I'm fairly racing an exact clone of me that is physically my equal in every way, except it has infinite stamina, the one with more stamina wins.

 

[Stefano4444]

Pretty sure that Superman cannot have infinite stamina, his stamina is depend by the amount of solar energy he absorb from the Sun, and all know that the Sun do not emitt infinite amounts of energy, no stars can do that.

The amount of energy Kal El can absorb may be infinite, but his power sources are not.

And it had happen several times in the comics where Superman had been tired and exhausted in combat, even in the middle of day, either because he is fighting someone on his own level (like Doomsday) or by using all his strength in performing a titanic feat.

1) Scan 1, Scar 2 , Scan 3, Scan 4.

2) Scan 1.

3) Scan 1.

It could be argue that Superman do have better stamina than Goku and i do agree for the most part, but that advantage alone isn't enough to win a fight.

 

[Amexim]

It actually is in a battle where the only thing that's different is stamina.

If Supes doesn't have infinite stamina, then... What's enough to bring him down. What are some of his feats? I know he flew across the universe for a week, didn't he? Goku... Um... If the Tournament of Power wasn't 45 minutes, that whole arc would be a feat. Even though he has been stated to be exhausted, the guy was functional for far too much to be "unable to continue".

This is why we need stamina rankings. High doesn't tell anyone anything.

 

[Stefano4444]

It actually is in a battle where the only thing that's different is stamina.

What about combat skills, experience, equipment, attacks/techniques or hax? They matter just as much.

If Supes doesn't have infinite stamina, then... What's enough to bring him down. What are some of his feats? I know he flew across the universe for a week, didn't he? Goku... Um... If the Tournament of Power wasn't 45 minutes, that whole arc would be a feat. Even though he has been stated to be exhausted, the guy was functional for far too much to be "unable to continue".

Well if i remember correctly Goku did have consecutively training for entire days during his travel from to Namek with minimal rest and he was able to consecutively flying across the Snake Way for several hours when Vegeta and Napp have arrived on Earth, so is not like he lack in that department.

But while Superman had greater Stamina, Goku make up for better Endurance, aka the saiyan is much better in tanking damage than the kryptonian (Goku can keep fighting even when is heavy if not mortally wounded, while Superman never had show to be capable of doing something like that).

This is why we need stamina rankings. High doesn't tell anyone anything.

Agree, we need a true ranking of Stamina, the closest thing to a proper ranking is this from the FC/OC Vs Battles.

 

[Amexim]

Endurance and Stamina are synonymous. I get the small distinction of fighting while wounded vs just exertion, but the former works to overall boost the Stamina rating overall. As in, fighting with a hole in your body for a significant amount of time is more impressive than just fighting for the same amount of time. Pain resilience pools from Stamina just as much as vigor does.

I was more so saying that if the Stamina gap is as huge as I thought, skill doesn't matter if you have equal stats. You could score nothing but clean hits, and still lose because you pass out from exhaustion. Hax just determines most fights anyway, and I figured any relevant hax would have been said by now. Attacks don't matter much if AP is equal. Unless you're Goku and use Destructo Disk. Experience goes with Skill, which would be irrelevant if Supes has infinite stamina (which he doesn't, but i'm Just explaining my reasoning. And equipment. What equipment? That stick Goku has? Lol

I agree. Someone make a Stamina ranking thread. Also, provide arguments for why Goku has comparable stamina?

 

[AKM sama]

Both team up to beat stats equalized Batman and Iron Man ovo

 

[Schnee_One]

Batman uses PREP and defeats both

 

[Huesito88]

Batman doesn't need prep to solo both =P

 

[AKM sama]

Well it was too one sided. Let's give Goku and Supes Bulma too, so that they too have some brains over brawns lol, and Batman and Iron Man get Hulk.

 

[Stefano4444]

Endurance and Stamina are synonymous. I get the small distinction of fighting while wounded vs just exertion, but the former works to overall boost the Stamina rating overall. As in, fighting with a hole in your body for a significant amount of time is more impressive than just fighting for the same amount of time. Pain resilience pools from Stamina just as much as vigor does.

They are synonymous in a grammatical sense, but what i mean with the word Endurance is something different.

Endurance and Stamina are still two different things even if they can be put in the same category, like how Reactions isn't the same thing as Combat Speed.

Stamina is mostly referred to the capacity of someone to remain active and exert itself to prolonged periods of time, it had little to do with the capacity of someone to resilience pain and sustain itself to massive amount of damage.

Just because someone can battle for entire week without rest it doesn't prove that it can remain alive or even conscious when cut in half, or with a hole in the chest or with just half of its face and keep fighting.

And since Goku had show better Endurance and other comparable characters have show several feats as well, i think Goku will be able to endure more damage than Superman.

 

[Amexim]

Remaining alive when cut in half is... Not a stamina feat. It's a damn superpower.

I already acknowledged how you view it, and I sort of agree, though to me, one more adds onto each other, rather than being seperate.

Being able to remain active while exerting one's self goes into being able to remain active while being damaged or experiencing strain (or exertion) caused by damage. See what I mean? And the latter is more meaningful— not just in a fight, but in general. Someone could just have high pain tolerance, but tolerating pain isn't exactly far from tolerating strain. The lactic acid buildup in the muscles from exertion mirrors pain immensely. Being able to fight through that pain goes hand and hand with endurance/pain tolerance. But being able to exert oneself while being cursed with additional strain caused by external and internal damage would make the argument that the one who can fight while hurt has higher general stamina. Fighting while you have a bullet in your body should be more taxing than running/fighting while you don't have a bullet in you. The only time where there would be exceptions would be if a character displayed a difference somehow. Otherwise, we just assume based off the information and estimate that they have a comparable amount of pain tolerance and vigor all around.

I mean, this is how I see it. The reason I stop exercising is usually because it hurts, rather than me passing out or feeling heavy from weakness.

But I could be wrong. After all, being in pain and passing out from shock isn't the same as being tired and passing out from exhaustion. Even if the overlap for making you want to stop moving is pain. If we're going by stamina alone, being how long your body can last before it gives out completely, then maybe we need endurance on keys to be seperate.

 

[Amexim]

But I don't know. When I imagine myself being tortured by Itachi (hot), I don't think i'd Last long, even though individual blows wouldn't surpass my threshold. I imagine I could only be stabbed so many times in my mind before giving out in a way that physically resembles stamina exhaustion. Though it feels different. Me giving out and collapsing from pain comes from my body not wanting to move anymore to process and receive the damage. But me giving out from exhaustion is, like, a heavy feeling. My eyes, my body, my everything. Too heavy. And I fall.

I dunno.

 

[Stefano4444]

Remaining alive when cut in half is... Not a stamina feat. It's a damn superpower.

In the sense someone doesn't instantly die after been cutting in half, like Whitebeard doesn't instantly die by having half of his face melted, the damage was fatal but he was still alive for a while.

 

[Amexim]

But in that case, I don't know if he died from shock (which is when you die cause you take too much damage, right? Like, not bleeding itself but feeling too much pain), or from blood loss. He took more than 100 fatal blows and died standing up. So if it wasn't shock that killed him, it was his blood loss.

 

[Konaguna]

supes still rapes

 

[Stefano4444]

Pretty sure that it had to do in part with his illness and old age, which had contributed, but his death was most likely due of the amount of damage (and not just simply blood loss) he had to take during the fight, especially from Kizaru and Akainu, it was too much even for him.

He was already dead the moment Ace was been freed, but he had still enough willpower and endurance to continue on up to the point where he was been turn intro a switzerland cheese by Blackbeard and co., and even that he was still able to live a little longer to give the middle finger to the WG by conferming the existence of the One Piece to the world.

 

[Stefano4444]

Not necessarily, you can still have a ranking system that can be valid for both, for the profiles you will need to do specify if someone's Endurance is on a level greater than his Stamina, like how there are characters having Relativistic speed with FTL reactions.

 

[Amexim]

At any rate, we should have people post stamina/endurance feats.

 

[PaChi2]

Before closing this: @Gargoyle you made literally zero sense with your "you can touch an intangible but not damage it". If you can touch/grab/hold physically something intangible you can punch it.

Of course Im not saying Goku can or cant do it since Im not going to debate.