Gremmy 6-B or 6-A ?

[USklaverei]

So now we have two accepted Gremmy meteor calculations, in which they are:

• Gremmy Meteor (Again)

• Gremmy's Meteor AP and New Seireitei Size (Using Only Statements)

In this topic, we will discuss which is the best to use.

 

[Damage3245]

Last time we decided not to use the visual artwork in determining the size of the meteor as it can be legitimately scaled to be much smaller than it would be in comparison to how big we assume Seireitei to be.

So we decided to scale it using only statements. If we're going to stick with purely statements for determining the size of the Seireitei, I think that we should stick with the method for calculating the meteor's AP based on statements as well.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Last time we decided not to use the visual artwork in determining the size of the meteor as it can be legitimately scaled to be much smaller than it would be in comparison to how big we assume Seireitei to be.
So we decided to scale it using only statements. If we're going to stick with purely statements for determining the size of the Seireitei, I think that we should stick with the method for calculating the meteor's AP based on statements as well.

I don't have an opinion on which to use, but this is a little misleading because the past decision ws to use only statements because the other calcs were attempting to use the art of Seireitei to get a size.

Sklaveri's calc doesn't do that, it's not using Seireitei's art to get a size, it's using that panel to angsize using a statement of Seireitei's size (the Shakonmaku size statement and Seireitei size statement calc).

Either way, I don't mind whatever we go with.

 

[USklaverei]

But here nobody used pixels to measure the size of Seireitei, we only know that it was before Shakonmanku that has that height.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

Except that way we won't know what the meteor even is like since i don't think there is a lot of statements a about the meteor aside from 'it's a meteor and it can destroy the Seireitei'

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Personally I think Sklaveri calc should be used since it's an actual meteor calc. The current calc is simply the destruction of Seireitri which is a bit dishonest I'd say.

But I don't really care so it's whatever.

 

[Tyri456]

I think it is fine to use since you used the statement to find the size.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Another comment. I'm pretty sure we already do this for Akame Ga Kill 6-B calc. So it should be fine here since it's pretty much the same logic I think.

 

[Damage3245]

If we're going to use artwork to get the size of the meteor then it would be better to scale the meteor to something that's actually on-panel.

Main problem with that is people don't want to accept that the size of the Seireitei was retconned during the Thousand Year Blood War Arc; it's a fact that it has been consistently drawn to be much smaller than being hundreds of kilometers across.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

You have no proof of your retcon statement like at all...The most recent piece of evidence used was from a novel post tybw. So I'll just discard this statement.

Also what's wrong with using the barrier? It's always the same.

 

[Damage3245]

> You have no proof of your retcon statement like at all...

The manga itself is proof. I assume you have read the Thousand Year Blood War Arc?

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Lol don't even try that with me. We had the discussion where all evidence was brought forward from both sides. Get over it.

 

[Damage3245]

Lol don't even try that with me. We had the discussion where all evidence was brought forward from both sides. Get over it.

Part of the original discussion was also to compromise and use solely statements for the meteor calc due to inconsistent artwork; USklaverei's proposed calc would go back on that agreement so it shouldn't be allowed.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Omg no it wasn't. Well not entirely. read IMade's post.

It had to do with scaling Seireitei and the Meteor. This doesn't scale it to Seireitei.

And if you read my post above in full, I'm 90% sure we already do this. (Scaling with statement)

 

[Damage3245]

@Sigurd; I remember the discussion well.

And the proposed calc isn't valid anyway because the meteor in that panel is not at the minimum distance of the Shakonmaku. It's further beyond it as seen here on the following page.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Not that well it seems.

This is not my concern, you can argue with the OP and the calc dudes that accepted it.

Edit- From what I can see he simply used the angsize formula using that panel to come to that conclusion. Which looks fairly straight forward.

 

[AppleLord]

There was a huge s*** post last time because the size of seireitei on panel was inconsistent. We decided to use statements from the manga and the light novels to avoid what panel from the manga to choose. If you want to choose a panel may as well use this one.

 

[USklaverei]

@Sigurd; I remember the discussion well.
And the proposed calc isn't valid anyway because the meteor in that panel is not at the minimum distance of the Shakonmaku. It's further beyond it as seen here on the following page.

It is further, but as I mentioned in the calculation, it is the minimum size since we know that it was close to Shakonmanku, so yes, it is valid.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

I personally think we should go with the 6A low end as it seems to be the accepted one already

 

[M11UTD]

6-A is already using a low-end and is more constant with the scaling.

 

[Damage3245]

I personally think we should go with the 6A low end as it seems to be the accepted one already

The other one is also already accepted.

@USklaverei; it's clearly not the minimum size since we know that it is wrong.

 

[USklaverei]

Yes, it is the minimum size, since the meteor was close to Shakonmanku, if the distance was greater, the meteor would also be.

 

[Damage3245]

The distance is clearly greater, so shouldn't you try to find a more accurate meteor size?

 

[USklaverei]

The distance is greater, it means that the meteor could be even larger than that, so I mentioned that this is the minimum size of it.

 

[Damage3245]

You're basically saying you know the size of the meteor in your calc is wrong and you're not going to try and find a more accurate size.

 

[USklaverei]

I have explained this to you several times and even explained it in the calculation.
This is the MINIMUM size of the meteor, since it was slightly above Shakonmanku, as the difference is small, this is still valid.

 

[Damage3245]

"Minimum size" is a weird way of calling it when it is a factually wrong size.

I'm still firmly against using this version of the calc since it is partially dependent on artwork that we decided not to use. If we're resorting to saying that the art is fine now then that opens up the door of scaling the meteor directly to the buildings on-panel.

 

[The_Causality]

Hmm.

Neutral but i guess both calc can be used, we sould use the less contradictory and since the meteor scaling to the buildings contradict the size of the seireitei itself, in my view, both can be used.

 

[USklaverei]

It is not factually wrong, it is the minimum that the meteor can have, it may be that it has a little bigger size, since the meteor was a little above the Shakonmanku, however, the margin of error is too small to say that it is not valid .

As far as I know, what was discussed was the art of Seireitei, since it contradicted itself, here we are not using using pixels in Seireitei and finding the meteor.

 

[USklaverei]

Hmm.
Neutral but i guess both calc can be used, we sould use the less contradictory and since the meteor scaling to the buildings contradict the size of the seireitei itself, in my view, both can be used.

In terms of consistency, my calculation would be better, since previous sagas have feats superior to those of Gremmy (Calculation of Imade)

 

[Damage3245]

@USklaverei; scaling from the building itself means we don't need to know the full size of the Seireitei, we just need to know the size of the building.

 

[The_Causality]

The problem is, the size of the building itself contradict the full size of the seireitei, we can't use the size of a building to get the size of something when it contradict another things entierly.

 

[Damage3245]

@The Causality; if we're already ignoring how the Seireitei is drawn in the Thousand Year Blood War Arc, then what is wrong with ignoring the size of the Seireitei now and just focusing on the building?

 

[The_Causality]

We're ignoring the seireitei's draws shot in Thousand Year Blood War Arc because he is contradicted by many sources which has been accepted now, focusing on the building is contradictory as ever since in the same scan, you can determined the size of the seireitei itself basically, that mean the scan itself is fallacious in term of measures, ignoring this fact doesn't seem fine to me.

 

[Damage3245]

@The Cauality; how is this any different to using the shot of the meteor and reverse-angsizing it? Through art we can tell that the meteor is a lot smaller than what we calc it to be, but we're using artwork to get the size of it in the first place. It's contradictory.

Saying "Well, you can't get the size of the Seireitei from that panel" is just trying to dodge the issue.

I'd rather throw out those accepted sources for the Seireitei's previous size if we had to do that. Especially since we do have consistent drawings for the Seireitei in the TYBW Arc.

 

[The_Causality]

>Angsize

The things is, the calc doesn't use the size of the meteor, but the accepted size of the seireitei to get the meteor in this panel, this one doesn't contradict anything, the scan you want to use for the building make everything wrong, as the meteor as the seireitei, using this scan is wrong.

>Dodge the issue

Dunno what this claim try to dodge, maybe the fact that using the size of a size that contradict everything the lore use, and i didn't say "you can't get" but "you can get" how this is supposed to dodge the issue when what you want to use (so a size calculated) contradict the scan itself and more.

>Other

Fine, but this isn't gonna to happened for now, everything in its time.