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GT Goku vs Manga Goku

Mickey1940

Mickey1940

3,560
530
This can finally be done

SSJ4 Goku vs SSGSS Goku (starting forms)

GT Goku has access to his Full Power SSJ4 Form (even without the help of others), and Goku has access to everything stronger than normal SSGSS up to Mastered Ultra Instinct -Sign-

Speed equal


Hopefully not a stomp


GT Goku: 2

Chou Goku:1
 
Speed unequal wouldn't GT Goku Blitz the hell out of manga Goku? Like Cell Saga base Toei Goku (Which is a way weaker version of GT Goku), was 2.45 Quadrillion x FTL, Base GT Goku is faster than Anime SSJ3 Buu Saga Goku, Which is insanely above Cell Saga Goku and SSJ4/UFPSSJ4 Goku is vastly above even that.

Besides that, idk how Limit Broken SSJ4 Goku's "At least Multi-Galaxy Level" compares to UI Chou Goku's "Multi-Galaxy Level +" but Dragon Fist and Kamehameha x 10, would definitely one shot with that being 3-A. Possibly just Dragon Fist or KHH x10 alone could get the job done as both multiply Goku's AP by an unknown amount and 10 respectively.

I think the fairest fight is speed equalized and dragon fist/Hakai restricted.

In that scenario, I don't know how far into 3-B Completed Blue and SSJ4 are, but ability wise SSJ4 Goku seems to have the advantage over Completed Blue Goku with energy absorbtion, reactive evolution, and Kaio-Ken (or at least the ability to multiply attack potency while in SSJ4 such as Kamehameha x 10) compared to Chou Goku's limited pre-cog, resistance to extrasensroy manipulation (due to SSJ4 having naturally enhanced senses even compared to a normal Saiyan and not needing ki sense), and Power Stress which seems to be far more straining than Kaio-Ken or the way GT Goku multiplies AP. The biggest danger would be the Hakai which can end the fight given the opportunity, though if Hakai is allowed I would say Dragon Fist should be allowed to, and GT Goku is more likely to use it in character than Chou Goku would use Hakai.

As for UFPSSJ4 vs UI Sign, I think initially Sign would definitely control the fight if speed is equalized, since UI is pretty insane if speed is equal compared to someone who isn't using it, though it's possible that SSJ4's enhanced senses and reactive evolution could possibly outlast or just straight up overcome UI Chou Goku if given enough time, assuming their AP's are similar and speed is equalized. It's also possible he could do something similar to what Anime Jiren did against MUI Goku and just power through, but that's more speculation. UI has the advantage initially, unless he ends the battle immediately, the longer it goes the worse it is for him due to the forms time limit and SSJ4's reactive evolution (if it works in this case)

So overall I say SSJ4 has the advantage in all scenario's with speed equalized unless there happens to be a large AP gap, and speed unequlzied he'd just blitz him to hell before he can even react , UI or otherwise.
 
1. Speed is unequal because the shockwaves from Chou Goku's punches reached the Realm of the Kais within possibly seconds (since it reached there before the Goku vs Beerus scene was over), and his current speed should be comparable to if not superior to his BoG speed

2. It's unreasonable to say that the Dragon Fist alone is 3A, considering that it took the combined efforts of both the x10 Kamehameha and the Dragon Fist to harm a baseline 3A (something that BoG SSJG Goku should be nearing, at the very least he's VASTLY above a baseline 3B)

3. Normal Blue is already about x10 SSJG, and Completed SSGSS and UI Sign should be far, far above that. I honestly don't know why Chou Goku isn't 3A

4. GT Goku can't combine Kaio-Ken with anything, if i remember correctly

5. Goku has Ultra Instinct. Meaning he'll have an advantage with his dodging

6. If GT Goku is stronger than Chou Goku, then Chou Goku in character would probably use Hakai, and it's highly unlikely that GT Goku could avoid it. If the situation was reversed, then Chou Goku would have a significantly easier time avoiding/countering the Dragon Fist and the x10 Kamehameha (since they are not necessarily new techniques to him).
 
1.) Even so his speed wouldn't be anything special compared to Toei verse dragon ball. The god tiers of Super (angels) are in the hundred quadrillions times FTL while Toei verse has base Cell characters in the single digit quadrillions. Cell Saga. And we're talking about GT Goku here right now. I know the wiki doesn't use all the multipliers but it would be extreme downplay to say that SSJ4 GT Goku isn't faster than the hundred quadrillions times FTL considering his cell saga base was in the single digit quads.

2.) Well it says "likely" 3-A, and if we rewatch the scene, the dragon fist is what actually pierced through Omega and made his body explode but I'm not trying to argue or debate that. Either way, Dragon Fist's (and potentially the Kamehameha x 10 as well) AP is vastly above Chou Goku's AP/Durability and Hakai negs Durability which is why I say it would be more fair of both were restricted. But if they aren't, GT Goku is far more likely to use Dragon Fist in character.

3.) I heard a lot of people on this wiki saying the gap between 3-B and 3-A is ridiculously huge, so that's probably why. Like Multi Galaxy could range from 2 Galaxies and the space in between to most of the universe aka hundreds of billions of galaxies and the space in between. I don't know how to compare the AP of GT and Chou Goku except that they're both above baseline 3-B

4.) His profile said he could use it with his SSJ transformations so I just based it off of that. This next part is just my thoughts, but I always figured that SSJ4 would be able to handle Kaio-Ken due to the form not being stamina or ki draining, and I always say the KHHx10 as an application of that. But if he can't he still has the ability to suddenly multiply his AP

5.) We saw that Ultra Instinct can be dealt with by people on a similar level to or stronger than the user (in the anime with Jiren vs UI and MUI Goku, though the principle is the same in the manga). If speed is unequalized then GT Goku would definitely just blitz but assuming they're the same speed, like I said, UI Goku would definitely have the advantage until SSJ4 Goku's reactive evolution starts kicking in which would even things out. UI also has the time limit. But yea UI Goku would definitely snack around SSJ4 Goku early on, but if the fight doesn't end there things shift towards GT Goku's favor.

6.) If GT Goku gets hit with a Hakai then he's screwed and there's not much he can do about it. But GT Goku in character is also the type of person to not only use Dragon Fist in character as well, but set up situations where it's almost guaranteed to hit. Basically he doesn't just throw it out, but uses it when it has the highest chance of success. Both moves are basically GG's if they connect though.


Basically what was trying to say the whole time is that I don't know who has the higher AP normally as they're both deep into 3-B, but assuming everything is equal, GT Goku seems to have the better unique abilities exclusive to him compared to what Chou Goku as unique to him, though I'm not sure how a fight with them would actually play out.
 
1. I don't know about you, but flying outside the concievable universe from earth in seconds seems WAAAAAY faster than Toeiverse speeds. Ah well, I'l just equalize speed to avoid any controverse

2. It shouldn't be that much higher than Chou Goku, considering he was nearly baseline 3A even as an SSJG in BoG. But you do have a point, so I'll restrict both techniques

3. But Chou Goku should be nearing 3A. I understand the gap between 3B and 3A, but Chou Goku has a high-end 3B feat. Like I said before I don't know why Chou Goku isn't 3A

4. With that logic Chou goku could stack Kaioken on top of his God forms, since the god forms have perfect ki control. Plus the flaw of Perfected SSGSS could easily be solved with God to Blue Switching

5. I could argue this, but since I'm a lazy f*ck I'll just equalize speed

6. Agreed, but Chou Goku doesn't crap out the Hakai without planning either


I'll equalize speed and restrict Hakai and DF
 
Restricting Hakai makes this impossible to add to the profiles. It's not the same with Dragon Fist because that's a 3-A attack.
 
Calaca Vs said:
Restricting Hakai makes this impossible to add to the profiles. It's not the same with Dragon Fist because that's a 3-A attack.
Click to expand...
So restrict Dragon Fist, and allow Hakai?
 
That video was dope, but here, the AP difference is nowhere near as large. I'm not even sure who's is considered higher
 
I feel like GT Goku has the skill and experience advantage and since Speed is unequal he should blitz. But than again Manga Goku knows the Hakai soooooooooooooooo.
 
LephyrTheRevanchist said:
Even if UI Goku uses hakai, doesn't it take him time, like with Zamasu? Couldn't GT Goku instant transmision out of it?
Click to expand...
not before half his body would be gone
 
ChocomilkAlex said:
I feel like GT Goku has the skill and experience advantage and since Speed is unequal he should blitz. But than again Manga Goku knows the Hakai soooooooooooooooo.
Click to expand...
Speed is equal
 
As it stands now, GT Goku is 3-B in base through SSJ3 with Dragon fist being a likely 3-A attack. Chou Goku is 3-B in blue and appears to scale higher than GT Goku's 3-B with completed blue and power stressed, until GT Goku reaches 3-A with limits broken SSJ4 and Chou Goku reaches 3-A in UI. Which goes back to the "can SSJ4 Goku hit UI Goku" thing. I still think he can as it's shown that people on similar levels can indeed fight and hit UI Goku, and UI doesn't literally make one untouchable to people on the same level. That being said I don't think it would be like SSJ4 Goku lands every blow. If UI Goku has his time limit then I'd say SSJ4 Goku wins hands down as I doubt he'd be able to take SSJ4 Goku in that timeframe. If he has unlimited time then it really depends, but the longer the fight goes, the worse it would be for him as GT Goku has reactive evolution. Dragon Fist and Hakai are both one shot moves. Dragon Fist due to the massive AP amp it gives GT Goku and Hakai because it's hakai and GT Goku has no defenses against that
 
Voting GT Goku for RE and better ki control, they're pretty comparable as you move up their transformation latter, but SFPS4 Goku with better stamina and ki control combined with RE is a bad combo for the short stamina and bad ki control UI
 
I said it once before and I'll say it again, DBS Goku gets my vote, now before someone ask me why, here are my reasoning:

1. Before Beerus first made his debut in Dragon Ball Z: Battle of Gods (this version of Beerus being far weaker than both his anime and manga counterpart) was stated by V-Jump magazine to be without a doubt the strongest character in the history of the Dragon Ball franchise. This isn't talking about canon nor non-canon Dragon Ball, but rather Dragon Ball franchise in general, putting him above the likes of Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta and Future Goku from Dragon Ball GT. Akira Toriyama despite knowing the existence of Dragon Ball GT, even stated that Beerus was the strongest in the universe, and that there was nothing higher.

2. Before someone mention this, "but what about the characters that later showed up and stated to even be more powerful than Beerus?", again, this two statements were about Beerus before he even made his debut in Dragon Ball franchise about him not other characters that came after him, and he already got two different official statements that puts every Dragon Ball GT characters to shame.

3. Guess who are the two characters that are stronger than Beerus currently in Dragon Ball Super? Ultra Instinct Goku and Ultimate Burning Ultimate Warrior Jiren. This should easily tell you who would win in a battle between DBS Goku and DBGT Goku.
 
I don't think the "Beerus's power is maximumest" quote applies to GT, but ok

plus this is DBS Manga Goku, not DBS Anime Goku
 
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