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This is a Part 2 for this thread, concluded about a week ago now.
As I alluded to on the previous thread, the scaling on Guilty Gear profiles is quite messy. Everyone in the verse scales to a single top-tier feat, even characters who are unambiguously not on the level of the character who performed the feat - a few profiles scale to evidently non-canon material - the justifications give inconsistent results when looking at each profile in tandem - and some profiles have keys that are either needless or unclear in their purpose. The purpose of this thread is to fully address the proposed new scaling for each Guilty Gear profile. I will start by outlining the general "categories" that each character fits into, why those categories scale to a certain tier, and then I will provide a document with each proposed new Attack Potency section for each profile and their justifications. Let's begin.
Top-Tiers: These are the characters who scale in some form to Justice's gamma ray feat. This feat has been calculated in the past, and is currently used on the profiles, but @CloverDragon03 had some issues with the assumptions of the original calculation. He has recalculated the feat here, and this recalculation has been accepted.
This recalculation still produces a result in the same tier as before - namely, High 5-A - but it does reframe how I would consider character scaling to it. With the previous calculation, there was an element of ambiguity about whether Justice would scale to the same tier as this feat. You may recall the issue with this if you were on the previous thread, but for those who weren't: in the scene where Justice performs this feat, it is implied that Justice is amped, with one of the characters stating that her gamma ray is done at "Maximum Output + 40". With the previous calculation, taken at the highest reasonable interpretation of this line (that is, that her output was 41x higher than it usually is), this would have placed Justice at 5-A. Considering the ambiguity, I suggested scaling all top-tier characters to "At most High 5-A".
With this new calculation, this ambiguity isn't really present - even taking this line at its highest reasonable interpretation (that is, that she was buffed 41x over), Justice without the amp would still be around 5x baseline High 5-A. The fact that I can't think of any way to frame this line such that Justice without the amp would be less than High 5-A, combined with the fact that several characters by now arguably scale above Justice, leads me to think the Top-Tiers should simply be listed as High 5-A (downscaling from 3.33 quettatons). This category includes the likes of Justice, Sol Badguy, Ky Kiske, and Asuka R. Kreutz.
Low-Tiers: These are primarily the characters who have only scaled to the top-tiers thus far due to a lack of other substantiating feats, and for the most part, these make up the characters who are currently listed as "Possibly/Likely High 5-A" on the profiles. Luckily, we now actually have a feat we can scale them from.
In Guilty Gear Xrd, Potemkin is capable of striking an opponent against the ground with enough force to burrow them through to the other side of the Earth. This was calculated with various methods here, and what was eventually accepted was the 7-B end. More precisely, the maths for 2 7-B ends were accepted - one for hitting Bedman through the Earth, and one for hitting a Potemkin clone through the Earth.
I included the second calculation here due to the theoretical instance that we consider the Potemkin mirror match in Xrd -Sign-'s Arcade mode to be valid, but I would argue we should use the lower Bedman end. For one, this Arcade Mode storyline is of dubious canonicity - and even if it is canon, we still don't know if this "Shadow Potemkin" has the same weight as the real Potemkin, which the original calculation has to assume. I'm not content with that assumption, so I would recommend we scale the Low-Tiers based off of the lower end 7-B (scaling around 8.9 megatons). Considering the general ambiguity in this category about how far the potential of these characters go (especially owing to the fact that, considering the nature of a fighting game, there's always at least a very tenuous argument to be made for a character scaling to higher characters), I would suggest listing these characters as "At least 7-B". This category includes the likes of Potemkin, May, Bridget, and Chipp.
Ambiguously Top-Tier: This is another necessary category to ascribe the characters who might scale to the Top-Tiers, but have some kind of questionable context that voids giving a completely decisive rating. A few examples include Goldlewis (who is claimed in an off-hand statement by a probably unreliable source to be "stronger than the entire secret service", which would include Giovanna (who doesn't currently have a profile, but would be a Top-Tier)), Delilah (who briefly claims to be stronger than Bedman but doesn't really have any decisive feats), and Leo Whitefang (who has fought alongside Top-Tiers like Ky Kiske, but explicitly as their inferior to some degree). These characters will generally be given Likely/Possibly High 5-A depending on how strong the evidence in favour of their scaling is, and if they do scale to any low-tiers as well, they're also given At least 7-B.
One more thing to note - some of these characters get their scaling from Bedman, or more precisely, causing trouble for Bedman while he was at less than 8% of his power. It's not completely clear exactly how comparable Bedman is to Justice, just that they should be around the same level. You could argue, if you take the highest interpretation of Justice's gamma ray feat (that she was amped 41x over while doing it), and then scale these characters to less than 8% of base Justice, that these characters would actually only end up at likely/possibly 5-A. I'll leave this as an open point, but I'd like to use the same reasoning from the previous thread and denote that - because this requires very specific assumptions about multipliers under ambiguous circumstances - that it would be more appropriate to just downscale them considerably from the High 5-A feat. I'll leave that as an open point, and just leave my suggestion as likely/possibly High 5-A for each of these characters.
With this all in mind, we have three distinct categories that each character in the verse fits into:
In conjunction with this, the previously listed Justice calc and Potemkin calc should be added to the verse page calculation section, with the former replacing the currently listed calculation for Justice's feat.
One final thing - checking through every profile in detail has alerted me to the alarming fact that, ever since its creation in 2015, Asuka's profile name has been misspelt. His name is "Asuka R. Kreutz", and his profile reads "Asuka R. Kreuz". While handling all of these changes, I think it is well in-order to fix this error by now.
I believe that is all. Thank you for your time.
As I alluded to on the previous thread, the scaling on Guilty Gear profiles is quite messy. Everyone in the verse scales to a single top-tier feat, even characters who are unambiguously not on the level of the character who performed the feat - a few profiles scale to evidently non-canon material - the justifications give inconsistent results when looking at each profile in tandem - and some profiles have keys that are either needless or unclear in their purpose. The purpose of this thread is to fully address the proposed new scaling for each Guilty Gear profile. I will start by outlining the general "categories" that each character fits into, why those categories scale to a certain tier, and then I will provide a document with each proposed new Attack Potency section for each profile and their justifications. Let's begin.
Top-Tiers: These are the characters who scale in some form to Justice's gamma ray feat. This feat has been calculated in the past, and is currently used on the profiles, but @CloverDragon03 had some issues with the assumptions of the original calculation. He has recalculated the feat here, and this recalculation has been accepted.
This recalculation still produces a result in the same tier as before - namely, High 5-A - but it does reframe how I would consider character scaling to it. With the previous calculation, there was an element of ambiguity about whether Justice would scale to the same tier as this feat. You may recall the issue with this if you were on the previous thread, but for those who weren't: in the scene where Justice performs this feat, it is implied that Justice is amped, with one of the characters stating that her gamma ray is done at "Maximum Output + 40". With the previous calculation, taken at the highest reasonable interpretation of this line (that is, that her output was 41x higher than it usually is), this would have placed Justice at 5-A. Considering the ambiguity, I suggested scaling all top-tier characters to "At most High 5-A".
With this new calculation, this ambiguity isn't really present - even taking this line at its highest reasonable interpretation (that is, that she was buffed 41x over), Justice without the amp would still be around 5x baseline High 5-A. The fact that I can't think of any way to frame this line such that Justice without the amp would be less than High 5-A, combined with the fact that several characters by now arguably scale above Justice, leads me to think the Top-Tiers should simply be listed as High 5-A (downscaling from 3.33 quettatons). This category includes the likes of Justice, Sol Badguy, Ky Kiske, and Asuka R. Kreutz.
Low-Tiers: These are primarily the characters who have only scaled to the top-tiers thus far due to a lack of other substantiating feats, and for the most part, these make up the characters who are currently listed as "Possibly/Likely High 5-A" on the profiles. Luckily, we now actually have a feat we can scale them from.
In Guilty Gear Xrd, Potemkin is capable of striking an opponent against the ground with enough force to burrow them through to the other side of the Earth. This was calculated with various methods here, and what was eventually accepted was the 7-B end. More precisely, the maths for 2 7-B ends were accepted - one for hitting Bedman through the Earth, and one for hitting a Potemkin clone through the Earth.
I included the second calculation here due to the theoretical instance that we consider the Potemkin mirror match in Xrd -Sign-'s Arcade mode to be valid, but I would argue we should use the lower Bedman end. For one, this Arcade Mode storyline is of dubious canonicity - and even if it is canon, we still don't know if this "Shadow Potemkin" has the same weight as the real Potemkin, which the original calculation has to assume. I'm not content with that assumption, so I would recommend we scale the Low-Tiers based off of the lower end 7-B (scaling around 8.9 megatons). Considering the general ambiguity in this category about how far the potential of these characters go (especially owing to the fact that, considering the nature of a fighting game, there's always at least a very tenuous argument to be made for a character scaling to higher characters), I would suggest listing these characters as "At least 7-B". This category includes the likes of Potemkin, May, Bridget, and Chipp.
Ambiguously Top-Tier: This is another necessary category to ascribe the characters who might scale to the Top-Tiers, but have some kind of questionable context that voids giving a completely decisive rating. A few examples include Goldlewis (who is claimed in an off-hand statement by a probably unreliable source to be "stronger than the entire secret service", which would include Giovanna (who doesn't currently have a profile, but would be a Top-Tier)), Delilah (who briefly claims to be stronger than Bedman but doesn't really have any decisive feats), and Leo Whitefang (who has fought alongside Top-Tiers like Ky Kiske, but explicitly as their inferior to some degree). These characters will generally be given Likely/Possibly High 5-A depending on how strong the evidence in favour of their scaling is, and if they do scale to any low-tiers as well, they're also given At least 7-B.
One more thing to note - some of these characters get their scaling from Bedman, or more precisely, causing trouble for Bedman while he was at less than 8% of his power. It's not completely clear exactly how comparable Bedman is to Justice, just that they should be around the same level. You could argue, if you take the highest interpretation of Justice's gamma ray feat (that she was amped 41x over while doing it), and then scale these characters to less than 8% of base Justice, that these characters would actually only end up at likely/possibly 5-A. I'll leave this as an open point, but I'd like to use the same reasoning from the previous thread and denote that - because this requires very specific assumptions about multipliers under ambiguous circumstances - that it would be more appropriate to just downscale them considerably from the High 5-A feat. I'll leave that as an open point, and just leave my suggestion as likely/possibly High 5-A for each of these characters.
With this all in mind, we have three distinct categories that each character in the verse fits into:
- The Top-Tiers (High 5-A, downscaling from 3.33 quettatons);
- The Low-Tiers (At least 7-B, scaling from 8.9 megatons);
- The Ambiguously Top-Tiers (likely/possibly High 5-A, potentially downscaling from 3.33 quettatons)
In conjunction with this, the previously listed Justice calc and Potemkin calc should be added to the verse page calculation section, with the former replacing the currently listed calculation for Justice's feat.
One final thing - checking through every profile in detail has alerted me to the alarming fact that, ever since its creation in 2015, Asuka's profile name has been misspelt. His name is "Asuka R. Kreutz", and his profile reads "Asuka R. Kreuz". While handling all of these changes, I think it is well in-order to fix this error by now.
I believe that is all. Thank you for your time.
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