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Guts' Durability.

Scheirke has a 45ton calc by Chaostheory, base Mozgus has a casual 20 ton calc, Ganishka can fry servants casually. There's stuff including a few things that could be calced at a later date. Personally id want to see Austrian Man meat's opinions as he seems to know his stuff and even did a respect thread for Guts.
 
You can ask AMM to comment here if you wish.
 
Supposed to be from withstanding a lightning bolt but there are some issues with that, I also have a big problem with giving Guts city block durability as it's a massive anomaly.
 
Guts defeated Muzgus, who took and survived his City Block level breath. So it's just that Apostle Grunbeld, Zood and Skull Knight are in the higher end of the tier while the God Hands are in the very high end for now unless they perform higher feats.
 
Guts also already had a Small Building level feat before becoming the Black Swordsman, and after the eclipse he fought off monsters the size of buildings on an average basis.

I agree that he should be on the lower end of city block by the time of Black Swordsman, for being able to survive blows from Zodd and Mozgus God Breathe, and maybe a little higher in the armor.
 
Why would it be an anomaly when there's multiple showings? I can understand if it was a single instance but there is several things supporting it.
 
I personally think that low City Block level durability seems to make sense.
 
TheJ-ManRequiem said:
I can understand if it was a single instance but there is several things supporting it.
Click to expand...
What? Mind if you show me? The only thing we have indicating Guts to have city block durability is this instance where he "impales" Mozgus by falling onto his chest where his weakpoint happened to be. It didn't kill him as it was shielded by his holy book though. And also, Guts was clearly threatened whenever Mozgus wanted to burn him hence blocking with the Dragon Slayer (which actually does have another feat where it withstands great heat). So I disagree with scaling Guts' durability to Mozgus' flames, because even then it's not like Guts took the full brunt of the heat anyways since his surface area is only so big.
 
Guts took hits from Apostle Muzgus, whose casual flame wields on the 8-B range, later he survived an attack from Grunbeld despite being injured and became more durable since then.
 
"Guts took hits from Apostle Muzgus, whose casual flame wields on the 8-B range"

Well, Mozgus isn't an apostle he's a psudeo-apostle. Semantics aside, why should we scale Mozgus' physical punches to his god breath? Especially when Guts was not only had to use the Dragon Slayer to guard against it but also threw him over to prevent getting his face incinerated by him. Those two things don't support Guts being able to withstand that attack at all, and I'm not sure how Grunbeld fits in this either?
 
He tanked hits from Zodd, either Zodd is building+ or Guts is city block. Saying he held back on the hill of swords when there's no reason to makes no sense. Pretty sure Guts tanked his breathe for a brief second. Grunbeld was discussed because people thought base Grunbeld>Guts when that was the case mostly because Guts was on death's door. Plus Grunbeld is above the majority of all Apostles and a high ranking member of neo band of the hawk.

Anyway, either Guts is at least low end city block or the apostles he takes hits from are simply high end building.
 
"either Zodd is building+ or Guts is city block"

Honestly man, I don't think neither one is the case. Since the reason why Guts was building+ (getting hit by lightning) turned out to not be as impressive as I thought it would be, there was a thread calling the AP of lightning into question however I'm struggling in finding it. I would propose Guts be about 9-A or just scraping 8-C due to Guts fighting off against Wyald and later on the Makara. The 8-B stems from borderline calculation stacking methods on a speed feat which is extremely questionable say the least.

"Pretty sure Guts tanked his breathe for a brief second"

He used the Dragon Slayer as a shield, even then you would need to divide the energy of the flames by the surface area of the Dragon Slayer. It did however get heated up to such a degree it was able to turn a good chunk of the Kundalini's body into vapor on contact, which was calculated to be City Block.
 
Guts tanked hits from Zodd and Grunbeld, who are city block, if Guts only had small building dura he'd be dead, not injured but flat out dead. And they don't need to scale off Guts, they can scale off Mozgus who while stronger than most apostles, likely isnt above Zodd or any of the hawk's current captains.
 
"who are city block"

Because we done kinetic energy on the Dragon Slayer when Guts performed a "High Hypersonic" feat and then smacked it on Grunbeld (because he didn't die when Guts was smashing him around and blocking his attacks) and Zodd most likely because he can fight against the Skull Knight who should be on par with a Berserker Guts despite us not seeing the two fight. Like I said before, that's incredibly questionable.

"they can scale off Mozgus who while stronger than most apostles, likely isnt above Zodd or any of the hawk's current captains."

Disagreed, while Guts can cleave through Zodd he was unable to harm Mozgus without targetting a specific weakpoint.
 
I never said they scaled in durability but rather AP. Unless ya expect me to believe Mozgus has the highesr AP out of everyone besides the God Hand.
 
"Unless ya expect me to believe Mozgus has the highesr AP out of everyone besides the God Hand."

He's the only one in the series who's taken a direct blow from the Dragon Slayer and came out of it unscathed. And why should we assume that Zodd's or Grunbelds physical attacks do more damage than Mozgus' fire breath when Guts could withstand the former but needed to use the Dragon Slayer to shield the latter? Also, the highest in AP would definately be Shiva Ganishka excluding the God Hand.
 
And a quick skim through the Mozgus fight actually does show Guts tanking it briefly, right before he shoved Dragon Slayer in his mouth Guts is engulfed by it and even if we use the the Dragon Slayer as shield that'd only work if Guts didnt proceed to use it as a weapon, meaning he wasnt exactly covered for the entire duration, at the very least a large chunk of his body came into contact.

Looking at it Guts is clearly shown taking it a second or two, his face is even in direct contact with a steady stream of it.

And ignoring that, do we not got statements putting Zodd and Grunbeld above as the strongest opponents Guts has faced? Looking through the Zodd fight, Guts takes a direct blow from Zodd to the back and gets sent flying into a rock, no parrying or shielding.
 
Actually going over the few pages, Guts did block it, but he still was hit by it point blank briefly. It may not have been very long but he did tank it, and in a subsequent panel, assuming he was already in the process of blocking it by then, he still explicitly shown being hit by it on some areas like his face, shown from the front no less.
 
"Looking at it Guts is clearly shown taking it a second or two, his face is even in direct contact with a steady stream of it."

This is a manga with still images, there is no real way to find out just how long he was in contact with the fire. It could be a millisecond, two seconds. Who knows. That also counts for the length of time it took Mozgus to vaporize those spirits as well, and now that I think about it we don't see any concrete melt away when it's caught on fire from him (which is not good news if you're supposed to have a city block potency) and the only thing it's effected were those spirits. Who have been shown to have some innate weakness towards it , so with that said it puts even the potency of the god breath into question.
 
Regardless he still tanked the God breathe, the length of time doesn't really matter, it obviously wasn't so fast it would mitigate the damage unless ya wanna argue for a speed upgrade. The vaping also doesn't really matter, it was clearly in a very short span of time so theres that. Plus worse comes to worse there's other feats that need to be calced that Guts would power scale to.
 
"Plus worse comes to worse there's other feats that need to be calced that Guts would power scale to."

Seems to be the case given the spirits being vaped are comprised of materials unknown to us (the calculation assumes what they could be made out of), they have a weakness to fire; everything else but the spirits was only set alight rather than melted or vaporized (which is a far cry from city block heat) which further indicates that these spirits weakness of fire hinder the calculation (due to them being very easy to burn) and we don't know how long it took for Mozgus to burn them. Without a proper timeframe, things get tricky.

"Regardless he still tanked the God breathe"

I'd argue he had very minimum contact with it, as the blood on his face wasn't melted off when he turned to impale Mozgus' face (most likely due to blocking the stream with the Dragon Slayer). His body did get some hit from the flames, but then you you need to take surface area into account. And given that only a portion of the body was in contact with the flame, you're not going to be getting city block results.
 
Id argue that, he was clearly shown to be engulfed and in a subsequent panel he was shown from the front and Dragon Slayer wasn't blocking anything at that point. But there's a few feats I can think of that should yeild decent results which would definitely scale to Zodd, Guts abd the like.
 
Feel free to clearly summarise your conclusions after you have finished this conversation.
 
Guts AP is wonky so scaling for Zodd is messed up and AMM has issues with Mozgus calc and scaling from him to Zodd and co I think. So while that could be discussed we could take a simpler route and just calc random feats like Guts dispersing a typhoon, the tornado stuff, etc And if nothing if note happens, continue discussing the previous point.
 
I'm fine with that, although there's still feats that shoukd be calced regardless. http://www3.mangafreak.net/Read1_Berserk_21_48 On a side note here's him tanking it, it completely engulfs him and on the next oage there's even a panel from the front showing his face covered in flames, meaning he didn't use Dragon Slayer to block immediately otherwise we wouldnt see his face, we'd see Dtagon Slayer. Plus even Mozgus breathed the fire on him he was down on the ground .
 
Don't forget Mozgus also pummeled Guts with his God Blow and crushed him with his God Presure, which obliterated part of the bridge they were on
 
Maybe but AMM doesn't think they scale to his breath, so him briefly being hit by said breath, from a semi top down perspective no less should be enough.
 
There's also the fact that Guts once let himself get tackled into a building so he could get to the top floor, with little to no injuries.
 
"there's even a panel from the front showing his face covered in flames"

His face is bloodied, had his face been caught in the flames no stains would have remained. Especially from something with city block energy. Also his head is turned to the side and we see from that angle , making it possible the Dragon Slayer is guarding him. It would also make little sense if Guts wanted to throw Mozgus over to avoid a fire stream if he could just tank them head-first. Anyways this conversation only really matters if Mozgus' god breath is truly city block (which it isn't for reasons aforementioned) so I will just drop it.
 
Well Lina did a recalc of the feat, and got Large Building level+, but keep in mind that it was low balled and here was still more goop that was vaporized that couldn't be seen
 
The problem lies with the premise, how are we supposed to properly quantify how hot is Mozgus' god breath is when it only manages to vaporize spirits which have some innate weakness to fire? There is also the problem of Mozgus' god breath not being able to melt the very rocks or concrete it comes into contact with, which makes the feat even more questionable.
 
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