HIGH SCHOOL DXD COSMOLOGY DEBUNK (5-B WORLDS)

[Dragongod224]

I want to ask something: What do you mean by Star Systems

It's describe by author in a novel that denpachi exist as star system in DxD Universe
And denpachi is a separate story or a world line
than original light novel exist in dxd universe

By star system mean every timeline's in dxd universe(star referring to the timeline and star system referring to the collection of timeline's) I think

 

[Vietthai96]

star referring to the timeline and star system referring to the collection of timeline's

What?, this is a very extraordinary claim, star system is.....star system, solar system is a star system

 

[Dragongod224]

What?, this is a very extraordinary claim, star system is.....star system, solar system is a star system

I know
That's why I say I think

And about star system (ichi) the author himself describe the different worldline(timeline) exit similar to Star system in dxd to reader understand that it's a different story exist separate to original story

 

[Tom4t0GG789]

It's describe by author in a novel that denpachi exist as star system in DxD Universe
And denpachi is a separate story or a world line
than original light novel exist in dxd universe

By star system mean every timeline's in dxd universe(star referring to the timeline and star system referring to the collection of timeline's) I think

It's a shame... but I honestly expected that answer.

To begin with, that's the problem with not reviewing the original source material. Because no, the author doesn't talk about this as a separate timeline, nor is it a solar system. Rather, it's a concept authors use to recycle characters for other stories. How do I know this?
For two reasons: in the original version, the author calls it (スターシステム), which, as this article says, is just a concept authors use to recycle characters for other stories. While it does say that there's the possibility of sharing a worldview, it's just a possibility, not a rule.

 

[Dragongod224]

It's a shame... but I honestly expected that answer.

To begin with, that's the problem with not reviewing the original source material. Because no, the author doesn't talk about this as a separate timeline, nor is it a solar system. Rather, it's a concept authors use to recycle characters for other stories. How do I know this?
For two reasons: in the original version, the author calls it (スターシステム), which, as this article says, is just a concept authors use to recycle characters for other stories. While it does say that there's the possibility of sharing a worldview, it's just a possibility, not a rule.

I am not saying it's a rule or anything you ask what do you mean by star system so I say that by also use I think

I also reply this to Vietthai96

I know
That's why I say I think

And about star system (ichi) the author himself describe the different worldline(timeline) exit similar to Star system in dxd to reader understand that it's a different story exist separate to original story

 

[Vietthai96]

I know
That's why I say I think

And about star system (ichi) the author himself describe the different worldline(timeline) exit similar to Star system in dxd to reader understand that it's a different story exist separate to original story

That only mean denpachi is another story and have a star system similar to dxd story, which likely mean denpachi universe have a solar system like dxd, not star system is the timeline

A worldline isn't timeline, worldline referring to object that trace its path across time, the path is called worldline. The only verse i know using worldline interchangeable with timeline is Stein:Gate

 

[Tom4t0GG789]

That only mean denpachi is another story and have a star system similar to dxd story, which likely mean denpachi universe have a solar system like dxd, not star system is the timeline

A worldline isn't timeline, worldline referring to object that trace its path across time, the path is called worldline. The only verse i know using worldline interchangeable with timeline is Stein:Gate

Well as I explained above it is just a literary concept and not something literal.

 

[Dragongod224]

That only mean denpachi is another story and have a star system similar to dxd story, which likely mean denpachi universe have a solar system like dxd, not star system is the timeline

A worldline isn't timeline, worldline referring to object that trace its path across time, the path is called worldline. The only verse i know using worldline interchangeable with timeline is Stein:Gate

DxD author ichi interchangeable using worldline and timeline to refer to different timelines or story's he share in his x account

 

[Tom4t0GG789]

And now let me get to the main course... why the 4-A cosmology is NO LONGER POSSIBLE.

As seen on the cosmology page and in this blog where more is discussed on the topic, we accept that the High School DxD anime is an alternate timeline because the EX volume mentions a timeline where Issei doesn't meet Chichigami.

For more information on this topic, check here:


While this is somewhat true, there is a problem with it. You'll see when searching the author's Twitter to refer to the anime, he never used (世界線) which is used in EX to refer to the timelines.
However, to refer to the chronological line of events, he uses (時系列) which effectively narrates events that occur within the series.
And here's the key... Because Ishibumi-Sensei published a post where he explicitly said that for HERO Issei did encounter the Chichigami.


If you're observant, you can effectively see how the author used the word (時系列) to refer to the chronological events of HERO. And as we know perfectly well, the official DxD account and its official website confirm that the previous 3 seasons are connected to HERO, so chronologically in these events (Adding the following image), Issei did have contact with the Chichigami.

What do I mean by this? Perhaps at the time, the anime was intended as a timeline for the original story (since EX and Born came out in 2015 [the EX relaunch takes place in 2016]), but with the arrival of HERO (2018), the author decided that said event would actually happen.

And since this information wasn't edited or rewritten by the creators of DxD (the Japanese edition of the EX novel I'm using is from 2018), we can rule out the anime as the timeline mentioned in EX.

PD: The translation group explained the semantic difference of the Kanjis used

 

[Vietthai96]

DxD author ichi interchangeable using worldline and timeline to refer to different timelines or story's he share in his x account

Do you have context, evidence backed this up?

PD: The translation group explained the semantic difference of the Kanjis used

Well, i just provide translation, as i have said, thing could change depend on context

 

[Tom4t0GG789]

Do you have context, evidence backed this up?

Well, i just provide translation, as i have said, thing could change depend on context

Anyway, I really appreciate your help.

 

[Dragongod224]

Do you have context, evidence backed this up?

Their is more if this not exactly what you want

 

[Dragongod224]

And now let me get to the main course... why the 4-A cosmology is NO LONGER POSSIBLE.

As seen on the cosmology page and in this blog where more is discussed on the topic, we accept that the High School DxD anime is an alternate timeline because the EX volume mentions a timeline where Issei doesn't meet Chichigami.

For more information on this topic, check here:


While this is somewhat true, there is a problem with it. You'll see when searching the author's Twitter to refer to the anime, he never used (世界線) which is used in EX to refer to the timelines.
However, to refer to the chronological line of events, he uses (時系列) which effectively narrates events that occur within the series.
And here's the key... Because Ishibumi-Sensei published a post where he explicitly said that for HERO Issei did encounter the Chichigami.


If you're observant, you can effectively see how the author used the word (時系列) to refer to the chronological events of HERO. And as we know perfectly well, the official DxD account and its official website confirm that the previous 3 seasons are connected to HERO, so chronologically in these events (Adding the following image), Issei did have contact with the Chichigami.

What do I mean by this? Perhaps at the time, the anime was intended as a timeline for the original story (since EX and Born came out in 2015 [the EX relaunch takes place in 2016]), but with the arrival of HERO (2018), the author decided that said event would actually happen.

And since this information wasn't edited or rewritten by the creators of DxD (the Japanese edition of the EX novel I'm using is from 2018), we can rule out the anime as the timeline mentioned in EX.

PD: The translation group explained the semantic difference of the Kanjis used

I don't understand what has do this with 4-A thing can you explain me this

 

[Endou_God_Hand]

And now let me get to the main course... why the 4-A cosmology is NO LONGER POSSIBLE.

As seen on the cosmology page and in this blog where more is discussed on the topic, we accept that the High School DxD anime is an alternate timeline because the EX volume mentions a timeline where Issei doesn't meet Chichigami.

For more information on this topic, check here:


While this is somewhat true, there is a problem with it. You'll see when searching the author's Twitter to refer to the anime, he never used (世界線) which is used in EX to refer to the timelines.
However, to refer to the chronological line of events, he uses (時系列) which effectively narrates events that occur within the series.
And here's the key... Because Ishibumi-Sensei published a post where he explicitly said that for HERO Issei did encounter the Chichigami.


If you're observant, you can effectively see how the author used the word (時系列) to refer to the chronological events of HERO. And as we know perfectly well, the official DxD account and its official website confirm that the previous 3 seasons are connected to HERO, so chronologically in these events (Adding the following image), Issei did have contact with the Chichigami.

What do I mean by this? Perhaps at the time, the anime was intended as a timeline for the original story (since EX and Born came out in 2015 [the EX relaunch takes place in 2016]), but with the arrival of HERO (2018), the author decided that said event would actually happen.

And since this information wasn't edited or rewritten by the creators of DxD (the Japanese edition of the EX novel I'm using is from 2018), we can rule out the anime as the timeline mentioned in EX.

PD: The translation group explained the semantic difference of the Kanjis used

How is this relevant to the topic at hand? Timelines aren't 4-A they're Low 2-C, you're comparing apples to oranges and arguing translation semantics over things that still generally mean the same thing.
Authors can use different types of Kanji, to mean the same thing, especially within the context of multiple written volumes of literature.
Regardless, this is largely pedantic to the overall thread, can we please have this thread closed till you make a new one with proper translations?

 

[Dragongod224]

How is this relevant to the topic at hand? Timelines aren't 4-A they're Low 2-C, you're comparing apples to oranges and arguing translation semantics over things that still generally mean the same thing.
Authors can use different types of Kanji, to mean the same thing, especially within the context of multiple written volumes of literature.
Regardless, this is largely pedantic to the overall thread, can we please have this thread closed till you make a new one with proper translations?

You know at this point this guy make think he want to descale dxd because of dislike or hate

 

[Vietthai96]

You know at this point this guy make think he want to descale dxd because of dislike or hate

Nah, let not assume people intention like that, i also follow the verse, and tbh i disagree with the rating the verse currently having, is that made me someone who hate and dislike the verse?

still no new DxD volume and new anime season

 

[Dragongod224]

Nah, let not assume people intention like that, i also follow the verse, and tbh i disagree with the rating the verse currently having, is that made me someone who hate and dislike the verse?

Nah you don't bringing think that should not make a sense
Meanwhile this guy bringing things that doesn't make sense with rating

still no new DxD volume and new anime season

New volume coming next month dx 8 and jdxd3

 

[Tom4t0GG789]

I don't understand what has do this with 4-A thing can you explain me this

What is the only version of DxD where there are starry skies in the Underworld and the Rating Games? In the anime, that's why we accepted that the Underworld is 4-A in size.
(The manga doesn't count since it's not an alternate timeline and there's no evidence of that.)
Since the anime is no longer a DxD timeline, we can no longer say that its cosmology is equal to that of the original work.

Also, no, I don't hate DxD. I disagree with the topic (plus this is the first time I've dealt with cosmology in VSBW). I simply consider it a very large and unnecessary leap for the verse that can be disproved with just proper analysis and research.

 

[Tom4t0GG789]

How is this relevant to the topic at hand? Timelines aren't 4-A they're Low 2-C, you're comparing apples to oranges and arguing translation semantics over things that still generally mean the same thing.
Authors can use different types of Kanji, to mean the same thing, especially within the context of multiple written volumes of literature.
Regardless, this is largely pedantic to the overall thread, can we please have this thread closed till you make a new one with proper translations?

Even without taking into account the Kanji, the author still says that Issei met Chichigami in the anime, so he discredits the anime as the timeline mentioned in EX, which is why we can't use its visual scenarios to scale to the main verse

 

[Dragongod224]

Even without taking into account the Kanji, the author still says that Issei met Chichigami in the anime, so he discredits the anime as the timeline mentioned in EX, which is why we can't use its visual scenarios to scale to the main verse

Still this don't proof anything

EX was released after BORN that the statement still applies since they would've met closer to HERO's time period a lot of options you could choose to argue latter one seems easiest to me So EX (takes place close to events of BorN), -> hasn't met chichigami yet, causing the statement from EX -> some time later, they meet -> HERO occurs


Also can you please give me explanation how this even matter with 4-A rating

 

[BlackeJan]

You know at this point this guy make think he want to descale dxd because of dislike or hate

U legit asked him to explain the 4-A rating then say this cause Endou gave a counter argument that YOU didn’t understand. Calm down dude there’s no need for this

 

[Dragongod224]

U legit asked him to explain the 4-A rating then say this cause Endou gave a counter argument that YOU didn’t understand. Calm down dude there’s no need for this

First, review the comment I made. I asked him later when he shared the timeline thing, as it doesn’t seem related to anything 4-A. Since he didn't explain how it’s related to 4-A?

Also, Endou asked the same question I did about how it’s relevant to 4-A, since a timeline is not a 4-A concept but rather a low 2-C thing.


Later this guy answer this to endou question

Even without taking into account the Kanji, the author still says that Issei met Chichigami in the anime, so he discredits the anime as the timeline mentioned in EX, which is why we can't use its visual scenarios to scale to the main verse

Can you tell me
How can we not use the visual scenario of Anime, is this not source material? Or anime isn't connected to High School DxD entirely? Or this is just a fan made anime?

And even if we think that it's just a novel timeline or a different timeline, it is still part of the DxD universe, and anything mentioned or shown in this is part of the cosmology or canon of the High School DxD universe (note, until stated otherwise that it's not canon).

Also I reply this to comment above how its don't make any problem with ex statement since it's possible that HERO take place after the statement made in EX

Still this don't proof anything

EX was released after BORN that the statement still applies since they would've met closer to HERO's time period a lot of options you could choose to argue latter one seems easiest to me So EX (takes place close to events of BorN), -> hasn't met chichigami yet, causing the statement from EX -> some time later, they meet -> HERO occurs

 

[Dragongod224]

What is the only version of DxD where there are starry skies in the Underworld and the Rating Games? In the anime, that's why we accepted that the Underworld is 4-A in size.

Nah Not only anime even game and visual novel and Manga also show the star sky and even the new game (opi) of dxd shown that

(The manga doesn't count since it's not an alternate timeline and there's no evidence of that.)

Even if it's or not alternative timeline?

The Manga still be used for scaling as original timeline and if that so then manga still be used for for scaling of cosmology and sterry sky also be used

Since the anime is no longer a DxD timeline, we can no longer say that its cosmology is equal to that of the original work.

How anime is no longer a DxD timeline?
How can anime not be used? Is anime not the original source material? Or is it because the anime is a different timeline entirely, separate from the DxD cosmology? Or is it just a fan-made story?

Also, no, I don't hate DxD. I disagree with the topic (plus this is the first time I've dealt with cosmology in VSBW). I simply consider it a very large and unnecessary leap for the verse that can be disproved with just proper analysis and research.

What do you mean proper analysis and research?
Since it's contradict your first reply to my comment that only anime show sterry sky.

Also, if you really think that way, you should use the information already provided by the staff of VS Battles Wiki rather than relying on personal AI translations. And if you do this, others might think that you don't like it because it doesn't fit your assumptions or you dislike the story.

 

[Endou_God_Hand]

@Vietthai96 I hate to ask this, but can you please close this thread? The original intention of the thread has been so muddied by the fact that Tomato used a large amount of MTL, and needs translations from the Translation Helpers.

There's no reason to keep this thread open until he fixes that.

 

[Vietthai96]

Before i close the thread, let ask the OP first

@Tom4t0GG789 are you fine with me closing the thread until you can get an accurate translation?

@Endou_God_Hand also normal user can't ping others. If you want to notify me, could quote one of my comment, the forum will send notification to me

 

[Tom4t0GG789]

Before i close the thread, let ask the OP first

@Tom4t0GG789 are you fine with me closing the thread until you can get an accurate translation?

@Endou_God_Hand also normal user can't ping others. If you want to notify me, could quote one of my comment, the forum will send notification to me

Yes, I think it would be best to wait, but before that, I'd like to edit the thread with the new information and a few other things. When I'm finished, could I call you to close the thread?

 

[Vietthai96]

Yes, I think it would be best to wait, but before that, I'd like to edit the thread with the new information and a few other things. When I'm finished, could I call you to close the thread?

Oke then, call me when you are finished with the change

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

What?, this is a very extraordinary claim, star system is.....star system, solar system is a star system

I don't really know anything about Highschool DxD or whatever situation is going on here, but is it possible that the "star system" mentioned here is a reference to Osamu Tezuka's star system (which itself is based on Hollywood's star system)? I'm not super knowledgeable on Tezuka's star system, but the situation here sounded similar from what limited knowledge I have, which is why I brought it up.

 

[Tom4t0GG789]

Oke then, call me when you are finished with the change

Okay, we've got the translations. However, since this thread was created with so many problems, I'm going to create another one. Therefore, I'd like this thread to be closed. Is that okay?

 

[SeijiSetto]

A worldline isn't timeline, worldline referring to object that trace its path across time, the path is called worldline. The only verse i know using worldline interchangeable with timeline is Stein:Gate

it can be both
when i look up 世界線 in japanese dictionaries the two definitions are timeline/parallel worlds OR the path an object traces through spacetime

 

[1smrizvi]

Tomato, this is me from discord. Nuke. Let me know when you open the thread. Also tell me which translations you need. I already send you the google docs so you can have access to them.

 

[BlackeJan]

Well since Tomato is gonna create a new CRT with translation then yeah might as well close this. Tomato let us know when the new CRT is up though pls

 

[SeijiSetto]

@Tom4t0GG789
could you link me all the translation posts you made that would allow you to get this done

 

[Endou_God_Hand]

@Tom4t0GG789
could you link me all the translation posts you made that would allow you to get this done

He got them from someone on discord apparently, not here.

 

[1smrizvi]

He got them from someone on discord apparently, not here.

I hooked him up with a professional japanese translator who I paid for their services on fivrr. I can show you proof if needed.

 

[Dragongod224]

I hooked him up with a professional japanese translator who I paid for their services on fivrr.

They paid for it

 

[1smrizvi]

They paid for it

i don’t get what is amusing or funny. I’d rather be paying 10 dollars for quick translation rather than wait for 4 months just for a translator here to work on a quote. The cost isn’t much and I make 15 hourly in my part time job.The guy is a professional japanese translator who majored in japanese linguistics, literature and studied the language in University of Florida. He is all the more qualified for this. He even attended Aoyoma Gakuin University at Tokyo and completed his studies there and got his Masters. Not to mention he also translates manga, anime and light novels. Again I don’t see what there is to laugh at.

 

[1smrizvi]

oof, I went a little overboard there. Haha, my apologies. xD

 

[Dragongod224]

i don’t get what is amusing about paying 10 dollars for quick translation rather than wait for 4 months just for a translator to work on a quote. Plus the guy is a professional japanese translator who majored in japanese linguistics, literature and is more qualified. Not to mention he also translates manga, anime and light novels. I don’t see what is there to laugh at.

It's amusing because you guys are so desperate to descale the series that you guys don't mind paying for it, so amusing.

Also, if I accepted @Tom4t0GG789's logic for cosmology, then all the world would become 5-B.

Example: The Underworld was compared to the human world; then, the human world and Underworld, being the same size, would both be 5-B.

Then what about the surrounding? Because we can clearly see there is a sun, moon, and stars (about the human world: the sun, moon, and stars are literally confirmed in the light novel, and they are not fakes at all).

Just because they compare the landmass of one planet to another doesn't mean the entire dimension becomes 5-B.

Because there are also the sun, moon, and stars in those dimensions, so it's clear that it depends on everything that exists in the dimension when talking about cosmology.

It's clear that @Tom4t0GG789 lacks knowledge of how cosmology works.

And also, @Tom4t0GG789 shows that he didn't do proper research because he says that anime is the only media where stars are shown, but this is not correct.

And manga is not a different timeline if we go by his logic, manga can still be used as secondary material; also, it can be used as if it's a different timeline.

Also, he claims there's just this much proof, but there is more to this in a few things.

"Also, the light novel never rejects the existence of stars, while clearly showing that in all media, stars do exist in those dimensions. So, while every media shows stars do exist and the light novel does not reject the existence of stars, what's the problem with accepting that stars exist in those dimensions? (Of course, until it's rejected by the author himself.) So, how is @Tom4t0GG789 going to prove that those dimensions don't have stars?
(And, of course, the Underworld has an artificial moon and sun (though this still doesn't prove how it's becoming just a light source, because the statement only says artificially crafted, and another one is Issei calling it false. But this can't prove that those are just light sources because artificially crafted items can have the same components or same mass, and Issei calling it a false moon because it was artificially created. It's similar to how a company creates a synthetic diamond that's chemically, optically, and physically identical to a natural diamond, but some might still call it "false" due to its artificial origin.)(thought this can be a supporting evidence if you provide more prof)

Also, it's only for the Underworld, not other mythological worlds(sun, moon and stars), and there is no statement about this.

It's so amusing that you guys don't mind paying for it.

 

[1smrizvi]

It's amusing because you guys are so desperate to descale the series that you guys don't mind paying for it, so amusing.

Also, if I accepted @Tom4t0GG789's logic for cosmology, then all the world would become 5-B.

Example: The Underworld was compared to the human world; then, the human world and Underworld, being the same size, would both be 5-B.

Then what about the surrounding? Because we can clearly see there is a sun, moon, and stars (about the human world: the sun, moon, and stars are literally confirmed in the light novel, and they are not fakes at all).

Just because they compare the landmass of one planet to another doesn't mean the entire dimension becomes 5-B.

Because there are also the sun, moon, and stars in those dimensions, so it's clear that it depends on everything that exists in the dimension when talking about cosmology.

It's clear that @Tom4t0GG789 lacks knowledge of how cosmology works.

And also, @Tom4t0GG789 shows that he didn't do proper research because he says that anime is the only media where stars are shown, but this is not correct.

And manga is not a different timeline if we go by his logic, manga can still be used as secondary material; also, it can be used as if it's a different timeline.

Also, he claims there's just this much proof, but there is more to this in a few things.

"Also, the light novel never rejects the existence of stars, while clearly showing that in all media, stars do exist in those dimensions. So, while every media shows stars do exist and the light novel does not reject the existence of stars, what's the problem with accepting that stars exist in those dimensions? (Of course, until it's rejected by the author himself.) So, how is @Tom4t0GG789 going to prove that those dimensions don't have stars?
(And, of course, the Underworld has an artificial moon and sun (though this still doesn't prove how it's becoming just a light source, because the statement only says artificially crafted, and another one is Issei calling it false. But this can't prove that those are just light sources because artificially crafted items can have the same components or same mass, and Issei calling it a false moon because it was artificially created. It's similar to how a company creates a synthetic diamond that's chemically, optically, and physically identical to a natural diamond, but some might still call it "false" due to its artificial origin.)(thought this can be a supporting evidence if you provide more prof)

Also, it's only for the Underworld, not other mythological worlds(sun, moon and stars), and there is no statement about this.

It's so amusing that you guys don't mind paying for it.

thats the thing. The translator gave us extra clarification for questions we have about the quotes that we gave them. He even explained potential mishaps that might have happened in the light novel quotes that lead to some people believing in vague statements as literal. Tomato is currently working on using those translations for the arguments he will put in the next thread. Endou and many others complained about his arguments being from japanese quotes that were translated by MTL to english so we simply solved that problem by having a TL. Plus dont worry. He will give his response to your doubts in his next thread. Just wait patiently and he will get back to you.