Hitsugaya Toshiro needs Upgrade

[HokageMangaVox]

Why haven't the power scale for Hitsugaya happen, yet?

In the current few chapters he:

Immobilize Gerard's arm mid-swing when he was packing enough energy to destroy the Ice Palace, which is no longer ambiguous. Since he's going to fight a more poweful Gerard in the next chapter.

His statement that he could incapacitate if not outright kill Gerard with some prep has been validated, do to his new power up, in th adult form he will match Gerard in battle.

He also froze and stop on of the cities from falling into Soul Society, which Gerard destroy only with the air pressure of the swing of his sword. This is at least City Level.

He also tanked two attacks from Vollstandig Gerard who two forms ago trashed the likes of Rukia and Renji by blowing on them is ******* impressive as hell. This applies to Durability.

Even without Dangai Daiguren Hyourinmaru he got great feats from this few chapters.

Kenpachi pulls one on him and he said to had hold back, then the second time he doesn't and Hitsugaya's survive his attack.

 

[Promestein]

He should probably get a new key for him post-revival, where his speed stats can be MHS+ and his old speed can be returned to HHS.

 

[Primaris_Brian]

why we have 2 ichigaya Thread :v
vsbattles.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:291947

 

[Anime200]

LOL I know I also made a page about it i think its funny that no one has gave him even 1 power up.

 

[KuuIchigo]

Or maybe something like true bankai. Similar to Renji where he has 2 different bankais.

 

[HokageMangaVox]

Bump

 

[Antvasima]

Stopping the "city" from falling needs a calculation to evaluate. As for his fight with Gerard, we haven't seen that yet.

 

[HokageMangaVox]

Stopping the "city" from falling needs a calculation to evaluate. As for his fight with Gerard, we haven't seen that yet.

You're right, what about Hitsugaya surviving blows from gerards giant form and then twice from his other form that applies to his durability. Since Renji in Shikai and Rukia were defeated by Gerard by just blowing them, same goes for Shinji. Hitsugaya should be Town Level via power scaling / City Level+ via feats / Possibly Island level

This of course without counting his new form which would possibly scale him to Country level, since he has to have greater Reiatsu than Gerard or equal to fight him.

In case someone mentions it, is not just Hax, if it was Gerard could just brake the ice again like he did. He should have enough Reiatsu and strenght to hold a City, therefore if it was Hax the ice would had brake from the force and the city would had fall to Soul Society.

 

[KamiYasha]

Island level...

Aizen, you are gonna love this.

 

[Sora'sOther]

^He said Possible Island level

 

[KamiYasha]

Suddenly he became as powerful as Byakuya?...right...

Sorry, but i ain't gonna accept a Hitsugaya higher than City level.

He is a fodder among all the captains and he suddenly became as powerful as Byakuya...sure.

 

[Sora'sOther]

.......I was only correcting you on what he said, i really don't care on Toshiro getting a upgrade in DC or not, in fact i only hope he gets a hax instead seeing as how outright DC would be useless aganist Gerlad

 

[Inoue211]

Sorry, but i ain't gonna accept a Hitsugaya higher than City level.
He is a fodder among all the captains and he suddenly became as powerful as Byakuya...sure.

I love how people dismiss feats because it goes against their headcanon or simply because they don't like a character.

Hitsugaya DID survive 2 blows from Gerard, Hitsugaya DID stop that chunk of the palace/city from falling, in case you don't remember he has been worried about it falling because it would destroy Soul Society immediately.


It's ok if you don't like Hitsugaya, but honestly your "I'm ain't gonna accept a Hitsugaya higher than city level" just tells everyone your opinion shouldn't be taken into account, because you're clearly showing how biased you are against a character. So it certainly doesn't help any opinion you could have.


Not saying Hitsugaya should be Island level(neither was the other guy), but his durability is EASILY city level, something like "City+ , potentially higher". Makes no sense whatsoever he should survive Gerard attacks when everyone else gets blown away. Unless of course you want to downgrade Gerard which would lead to a whole new discussion.

 

[Antvasima]

Again, we need a calculation for his feat before we upgrade him.

 

[Inoue211]

I know, i'm not talking about holding the city though. I'm talking about his durability since he survived Gerard's attacks.

But if you talk about the ice feat. From my point of view it should be taken into account that Hitsugaya has been worried about Soul Society since this fight started, and when he saw that piece of palace about to fall he immediately lost his s**t. Which means that it falling was really really dangerous, so when making a calc that shouldn't be dismissed.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I don't recall him taking any of Gerard's attacks point-blank. Even Kenpaichi couldn't withstand them before going into Bankai mode.

 

[Inoue211]

Well, I don't recall him taking any of Gerard's attacks point-blank.

That doesn't really changes anything though. Gerard is country level, there's a reason i'm not mentioning Hitsugaya country level durability. That's why I said city+ potentially (far)higher just to start.

And those attacks were aimed at Toshiro(he even was surprised shota survived the first one) so it's not like Gerard attacks somewhere and it just HAPPENED to blow him.

Like I said unless someone thinks Gerard should be downgraded from country level it makes no sense(to me) a guy like Hitsugaya surviving attacks aimed to kill him.


Just for reference, a much weaker Gerard this this. It's absolutely ridiculous

 

[Antvasima]

Can you show scans of Gerard attacking Hitsugaya point blank at full power?

 

[Inoue211]

Did you bother to read my post above? genuine question. Rukia and Renji get literally BLOWN away by a much weaker Gerard.


Anyway here are scans

http://readms.com/r/bleach/670/3352/12

http://readms.com/r/bleach/670/3352/15

http://readms.com/r/bleach/670/3352/16


And before you say something like Gerard is taking it easy on him, he's not. He's been trying to kill Toshiro and Byakuya since the fight started, meanwhile he just blew people like Renji and Rukia to a K.O.

Might not have used the same power he's using against Zaraki, but he's been going for the kill for a while now(hitsugaya dodged some of his previous attacks)

 

[HokageMangaVox]

Like i said Hitsugaya should be Town Level via power scaling / City Level+ via feats (still needs calculation) / Possibly Island level

This of course without counting his new form which would possibly scale him to Country level, since he has to have greater Reiatsu than Gerard or equal to fight him in the next chapter with his new form.

Hitsugaya is a Captain while Renji and Rukia aren't so is obvious that he should be stronger than them, Hitsugaya back in the day fought on par with Espada Number 3 while Renji and Rukia had trouble with Espadas number 10 and 9.

 

[Inoue211]

Maybe he won't fight Gerard 1 on 1. Well this is Kubo so he probably will but i'm sure they'll beat Gerard together with Byakuya in the end. Byakuya needs to show off his powered bankai.


Don't know about DC for the not named ice "attack" but It should be pretty cool

Then we'll see feats for Adult version

 

[Antvasima]

@Inoue211 As far as I can see, those scans show Gerard striking Kenpaichi. Hitsugaya was shown to almost be knocked out by the shockwaves of being nearby.

 

[KamiYasha]

Right...suddenly his "base" bankai became City level out of nowhere...when he was defeted almost killed by a fodder sternritter.

 

[Inoue211]

@Inoue211 As far as I can see, those scans show Gerard striking Kenpaichi. Hitsugaya was shown to almost be knocked out by the shockwaves of being nearby.

No. The whole manga is there for you to read, would it kill you to just read it instead of making me posting it?


Hitsugaya stops the bridge(honestly dunno what to call it, it connects the whole thing) from falling.

http://readms.com/r/bleach/670/3352/11

Gerard attacks him

http://readms.com/r/bleach/670/3352/12

THEN Gerard attacks Kenpachi

http://readms.com/r/bleach/670/3352/13

http://readms.com/r/bleach/670/3352/14

http://readms.com/r/bleach/670/3352/15

Gerard notices Hitsugaya is still alive so he attacks him again

http://readms.com/r/bleach/670/3352/16


Like I said, Gerard has been trying to kill Toshiro and Byakuya for a while now. What I posted is him trying, again.

 

[HokageMangaVox]

@Inoue211 As far as I can see, those scans show Gerard striking Kenpaichi. Hitsugaya was shown to almost be knocked out by the shockwaves of being nearby.

Yes and No.

Here:

http://readms.com/r/bleach/670/3352/11

http://readms.com/r/bleach/670/3352/12

After Hitsugaya froze the city, Gerard instantly slice him with the same attack he use to detach the city and broke one of his wings in the procces.

Here:

http://readms.com/r/bleach/670/3352/15

Is Hitsugaya after receiving the blow from Gerard and we see Gerard striking Kenpachi who is nearby Hitsugaya.

Here:

http://readms.com/r/bleach/670/3352/16

After Hitsugaya mentions Zaraki's name, Gerard notices he's still alive and swings his sword across the ground hitting Hitsuagaya and sending him flying away from there, who is then catch by Byakuya's Senbonzakura.

 

[Inoue211]

Right...suddenly his "base" bankai became City level out of nowhere...when he was defeted almost killed by a fodder sternritter.

Huh, when did this happen? I don't seem to remember it. Are you reading some other manga? Last time Toshiro got beaten he didn't have a Bankai, in fact when he got it back he was cut in half and dying.

Then he was zombie

And now this is happening.


In several threads you have shown that you dislike the character, why not just say that you don't want to pay attention to what's happening right now in the manga because you don't like him?


Also "suddendly" , eh it's more like you thought he was weak but he wasn't? I mean it's not the first time the wiki has been wrong right? The whole point is that characters are upgraded/downgraded according to their showings. Like I said we hadn't seen Hitsugaya fight before, he's doing it now and you have the feats there.

 

[KuuIchigo]

Right...suddenly his "base" bankai became City level out of nowhere...when he was defeted almost killed by a fodder sternritter.

If you're talking about Cang Du, Hitsugaya bankai was stolen and he was heavily injured by Bazz-B. Unless the fodder you're talking about is Bazz-B.

 

[KamiYasha]

He barely winstood Cang Du's attack, even when Cang Du was weakened due to the hollow pill.

 

[KuuIchigo]

IIRC, he was heavliy injured by Bazz-B and Cang Du showed up to finish him off. So it should be understandable that he couldn't withstand Cang Du's attack.

 

[Inoue211]

He barely winstood Cang Du's attack, even when Cang Du was weakened due to the hollow pill.

I recommend you to read the chapter again.

 

[Antvasima]

@Inoue211 Hmm. I don't like your tone, but it seems like you are correct.

It also seems strange that Hitsugaya would suddenly be powered up enough to survive Gerard's strikes, but I suppose that this is standard story inconsistency.

Anyway, as far as I am concerned, you are likely correct in that he should receive some sort of upgrade.

 

[KuuIchigo]

I just read the chapter again. 553 and 554. Hitsugaya gradually got his bankai back and still withstood Cang Du's attack. After he froze him that was when he collapsed from his injuries from Bazz-B.

 

[Inoue211]

I'm "talking" in a fairly neutral tone, sorry if it seemed otherwise but you could've checked the next/in-between pages of what I posted since it explained the doubt you had.

And I don't think he suddenly powered up. Like I said we hadn't seen Hitsugaya fight before, at least not Bankai Hitsugaya. When he got his bankai back he was literally cut in half and had some other holes made by Bazz-b. In fact he was holding his body together with ice

This is the first fight we've seen without him being nerfed.

 

[KamiYasha]

The problem with some characters of bleach is the amount of (sorry for the Word) asspulls and massive plot armor.

I remember when Byakuya was "killed"... Fans were stalking kubo on twitter with death threats fir killig both Hitsugaya and Byakuya...

I really don't know if this should be taken seriously.

 

[HokageMangaVox]

Right...suddenly his "base" bankai became City level out of nowhere...when he was defeted almost killed by a fodder sternritter.

Ehh... No. Here is what Kubo said 4 years before this Arc started and this was in an interview.

https://dailyanimeart.com/2012/02/12/spoiler-the-thousand-year-blood-war-final-arc/

There he mentions Hitsugaya's Bankai been completed.

This link however has not been updated to current events, as to other things which have been confirm.

Also keep in mind that Hitsugaya never fought in Bankai and when he did get it back, he stomp the fodder sternrritter and since he was dying from the wounds that Bazz-B give him, he collapse before becoming a Zombie slave.

However before that he trained during the 17 months time skip, after Aizen's defeat:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-XU6uYp98KV8/TmODniMUvxI/AAAAAAAABnw/38e8pFZdAVQ/s16000/008.png

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-HF8BIlQoV48/TmODpdsUESI/AAAAAAAABoA/1Wb_yQDobkQ/s16000/009.png

And after the first invasion he trained,

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-hFq5-ViyQSY/UZzdIhnyMQI/AAAAAAAATuU/3FXO4Onq_qs/s16000/012.png

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-TfcXC_iC1mI/UZzdKEF7GEI/AAAAAAAATuc/_LisZjmDjAg/s16000/013.png

As well as the others and the captains.

There's nothing sudden about it.

 

[Antvasima]

Somebody should probably message LordAizenSama to ask him to tell us here what he thinks about this.

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

I have done so.

 

[Inoue211]

The problem with some characters of bleach is the amount of (sorry for the Word) asspulls and massive plot armor.
I remember when Byakuya was "killed"... Fans were stalking kubo on twitter with death threats fir killig both Hitsugaya and Byakuya...

I really don't know if this should be taken seriously.

First of all Hitsugaya is a genius, him powering up is perfectly logical, especially after almost 2 years of training(Ichigo gets stronger than everyone in weekly basis). We've seen several characters state he's a genius and we've seen him being a genius, I mean he's pretty much the equivalent of a 10 year old kid in soul society.

Second, I agree it may or may not have to do with him being popular since after all he IS the most popular character in the manga. But honestly it would be disrespectful saying Kubo only uses him for that since from the beginning Hitsugaya has been an important non main character, in SS he was really important and he's been in every arc since then. The only arc i'd say he's been shoehorned into would be Fullbringer, but all Shinigamis were shoehorned there because of editor-san forcing Kubo to wrap the arc up.


And third, honestly that really doesn't matter here, what matters are things that happen in the manga/databooks/materials or whatever.

 

[LordAizenSama]

hmm, a bit difficult.

Hitsugaya getting upgraded to City level seems ok with the training he did, seeing as we never really saw it in action till now it's pretty inevitable this happens.

The problem is the points with the durability. As shown above he He took 2 hits from Gerard, not quite direct blows from Gerard himself, but the gap between Hitsugayas current Durability and the Country level AP we have Gerard at is so enormous that I think "At least City level, Likely Higher" should be acceptable as Hitsugaya's Durability (it's probably higher than this but it's unquantifiable really, considering it wasn't a fully directed attack at Hitsugaya and he did take some damage)

Is this ok?

 

[Inoue211]

Well I had suggested City level+ potentially higher so it's ok for me. My main gripe is what you mentioned about Gerard, he's REALLY strong in the verse and he IS trying to kill Hitsugaya so that's why I wanted this upgrade for ice-shota since otherwise Gerard would have to be nerfed and with him a lot of other characters which honestly would make no sense whatsoever. So again yeah, it's fine by me I guess.


Though I'm not really the one who decides, of course.