Honkai Impact | Major Downgrade From Low 1-A (Part 2)

[Telomera]

In this thread, I argued that the basis for Hoyoverse scaling to Low 1-A was unjustified and that it should be downgraded as a result. 4 out of 4 staff who evaluated this thread, including Ultima_Reality and Elizhaa (both of whom are listed as knowledgeable members when it comes to Tier 1) agreed with my downgrade proposal. While it has been accepted, note however that the thread is still up. Those who oppose the downgrade may still argue against it if they wish. Edit: The other thread is closed now

The purpose of this thread is to determine what tier those who were previously rated as Low 1-A (pretty much all the "god tiers") should have their tier changed to. In the original thread, I refuted not just the arguments for Low 1-A, but also the arguments for High 1-B in the form of the Project Stigma scaling as well as the "transfinite levels of transcendence" (which is nothing but a misreading of this scan). As a result, I do believe that the "god tiers" of Hoyoverse should be rated as either 1-B (12D) or High 1-C (11D) based on previously established scaling that I never touched upon in my thread (although I honestly do want to address it in the future)

Agree with High 1-C (11D):
Agree with 1-B (12D):
Disagree, rate as High 1-B:
Disagree, rate as other tier:

 

[Reiner04]

I'll tag supporters so they can take part in discussion.
@Giannysmag @Woomica @DrakerX @Shiroiyo @Weaver261

 

[Telomera]

I'll tag supporters so they can take part in discussion.
@Giannysmag @Woomica @DrakerX @Shiroiyo @Weaver261

It seems that the only other basis for scaling to anything higher than 1-B (12D) is based off of project stigma and "transfinite levels of transcendence." However, neither of these arguments are valid.

Project stigma, across all of the scans in which it is mentioned, is never stated to view baseline reality is fiction. None of the statements in which "fiction" are applied indicate any sort of R>F or even R>F-like transcendence over baseline reality. As a result, Project Stigma's scaling doesn't really establish much other than a 2 level downward hierarchy, which doesn't really do much for scaling.

As mentioned in the OP, "transfinite levels of transcendence" are never mentioned. The scan ultimately amounts to nothing more than saying that the imaginary tree is on a transfinite level that is higher than the lowest transfinite cardinal. This would simply be Aleph-1 and wouldn't scale anywhere higher than the 11-12D scaling that's already been accepted here. Note that this does not say that the Imaginary tree has aleph-1 dimensions (which would be pretty high up into High 1-B), it merely indicates that its scale is at aleph-1 in some way with no mention of dimensions. For reference, even High 1-C structures and Low 2-C structures both have a scale of aleph-1 in comparison to baseline 3D space.

So what do you think?

 

[Telomera]

I'll tag supporters so they can take part in discussion.
@Giannysmag @Woomica @DrakerX @Shiroiyo @Weaver261

By the way, how do you tag? I know how to link to a user, but I suppose that's a bit different from tagging.

 

[NothingToDebateWith]

By the way, how do you tag? I know how to link to a user, but I suppose that's a bit different from tagging.

Non-staff cannot tag others.

 

[Reiner04]

By the way, how do you tag? I know how to link to a user, but I suppose that's a bit different from tagging.

Non staff pings do not work.

 

[henryzx900ruly]

In this thread, I argued that the basis for Hoyoverse scaling to Low 1-A was unjustified and that it should be downgraded as a result. 4 out of 4 staff who evaluated this thread, including Ultima_Reality and Elizhaa (both of whom are listed as knowledgeable members when it comes to Tier 1) agreed with my downgrade proposal. While it has been accepted, note however that the thread is still up. Those who oppose the downgrade may still argue against it if they wish. Edit: The other thread is closed now

The purpose of this thread is to determine what tier those who were previously rated as Low 1-A (pretty much all the "god tiers") should have their tier changed to. In the original thread, I refuted not just the arguments for Low 1-A, but also the arguments for High 1-B in the form of the Project Stigma scaling as well as the "transfinite levels of transcendence" (which is nothing but a misreading of this scan). As a result, I do believe that the "god tiers" of Hoyoverse should be rated as either 1-B (12D) or High 1-C (11D) based on previously established scaling that I never touched upon in my thread (although I honestly do want to address it in the future)

Agree with High 1-C (11D):
Agree with 1-B (12D):
Disagree, rate as High 1-B:
Disagree, rate as other tier:

When i have the time i will make the arguments but I don't agree with them scaling to anything below High 1-B.

 

[Giannysmag]

I'll tag supporters so they can take part in discussion.
@Giannysmag @Woomica @DrakerX @Shiroiyo @Weaver261

This is the second time I've been tagged in an HI3 thread and I don't know why lmao, I haven't played the game and I don't think I'm listed as a supporter

 

[Telomera]

When i have the time i will make the arguments but I don't agree with them scaling to anything below High 1-B.

I mean we'll see what happens. But I will tell you this, I did already discuss the Project Stigma scaling as well as the transfinite scaling with Ultima on Discord, and he seems to agree that neither of those would scale anywhere higher than H1C or 1B (12D).

 

[SweetDao]

Right now, where do you think would be the safest OP? H1C or 1B (ultimately if you change the rating later on, it will not be very important, but I would like your input)

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Should they not just go back to 1-B?

Because unless 1-B has problems, then the usual thing for downgrades is to revert their rating back to whatever tier they were before the upgrade.

 

[VoidGoji]

Low 1-A just goes back to 1-B.

 

[henryzx900ruly]

I mean we'll see what happens. But I will tell you this, I did already discuss the Project Stigma scaling as well as the transfinite scaling with Ultima on Discord, and he seems to agree that neither of those would scale anywhere higher than H1C or 1B (12D).

I am the saviour of hoyoverse. Anything is possible.

 

[Huesito88]

I am the saviour of hoyoverse. Anything is possible.

 

[henryzx900ruly]

mosty likely ill either give a scale here or just make a seperate thread about it.

 

[NothingToDebateWith]

It's crazy to see the Wikipedia definition itself changed(corrected?) because of HoYoverse scaling. I'm truly baffled.

We should consider making a CRT to remove any other kind of verse that has similar reasoning since that seems to be the case.

 

[Telomera]

Should they not just go back to 1-B?

Because unless 1-B has problems, then the usual thing for downgrades is to revert their rating back to whatever tier they were before the upgrade.

What even was the justification for 1-B anyways? Aren't worlds in the Imaginary Tree and/or the Imaginary Tree itself said to be 11-dimensional?

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

What even was the justification for 1-B anyways? Aren't worlds in the Imaginary Tree and/or the Imaginary Tree itself said to be 11-dimensional?

Something about Finality or the Aeons transcending the entire 11-D tree, making them 12-D I think?

 

[henryzx900ruly]

Something about Finality or the Second transcending the entire 11-D tree, making them 12-D I think?

Correct, the Finality does transcend the Tree. And yes I will aura farm until I'm actually done with this scale.
I'll see what arguments others post first.

 

[Laniaitte]

What even was the justification for 1-B anyways? Aren't worlds in the Imaginary Tree and/or the Imaginary Tree itself said to be 11-dimensional?

Who told you that the Tree of Imagination is 11-dimensional? Because in the story, no one actually mentions it being at the 11th-dimensional level. There is only a comparison suggesting that it might be similar to the quantum sea, which is described as an 11D structure. If you intend to lower the level of this verse, you should know this story, as it is an important part.

 

[VoidGoji]

HSR puts it above the Sea, not just "its similar to the Sea".

 

[Telomera]

Something about Finality or the Aeons transcending the entire 11-D tree, making them 12-D I think?

"Transcending" something isn't enough justification to go up a dimensional tier though. If that's all the justification that exists, it shouldn't stand.

 

[henryzx900ruly]

"Transcending" something isn't enough justification to go up a dimensional tier though. If that's all the justification that exists, it shouldn't stand.

Thats only one part of the context. and generally ,it can be viewed as an ontological transcendence.

 

[Telomera]

Thats only one part of the context. and generally ,it can be viewed as an ontological transcendence.

So where's the rest of the context? If there's enough context that it can't be quickly resolved, I suggest we put the verse at 12D for now and discuss it in a separate thread.

 

[henryzx900ruly]

So where's the rest of the context? If there's enough context that it can't be quickly resolved, I suggest we put the verse at 12D for now and discuss it in a separate thread.

Dont worry bro they are waiting on when I get off my ahh and make the new cosmology thread.

 

[Telomera]

Should they not just go back to 1-B?

Because unless 1-B has problems, then the usual thing for downgrades is to revert their rating back to whatever tier they were before the upgrade.

Well, the problem here is that no one seems to have offered any arguments for 12D besides "transcendence." Shouldn't we keep it at 11D until proof is offered that would prove 12D tiering?

 

[henryzx900ruly]

Well, the problem here is that no one seems to have offered any arguments for 12D besides "transcendence." Shouldn't we keep it at 11D until proof is offered that would prove 12D tiering?

Question, have you seen the scan in question

 

[Telomera]

Question, have you seen the scan in question

No. Could you show it to me?

 

[henryzx900ruly]

No. Could you show it to me?

ill find it but i dont know if its the scan their talking about.

 

[PedjaTarzan]

Something about Finality or the Aeons transcending the entire 11-D tree, making them 12-D I think?

No, i think i have adressed multiple times in previous CRT that no one surpasses the Tree, not even Kiana. 12D comes from Tree having superiority over SoQ along with gazillion other bullshit ultra rushed by garrixian (like his 1-A+ slop).

Dont worry bro they are waiting on when I get off my ahh and make the new cosmology thread.

theres already a cosmology page go check it out

Respectfully but if the summary of part 1 crt was just the thing that nukes entire low 1-A then this downgrade is lowkey ass, it only covered absolute infinity which just gives us "possibly" low 1-a (and it does untill the entire low 1-A and AI gets revised from the tiering system like this) if we discount other dimensional transcendence and other slop from crt link even OP has put.
and its also lowkey funny that AI isnt even nuked as a tier, nor that the low 1-a in general is revised, and then we had mf who supposedly changed wikipedia page to fits his desires. and yet this passed without issues.
Comes to show how tier 1 shit passes only because daddy admins are there (1-A+ honkai where garri speedialed mods while we told him NOT to make verse 1-A) and this downgrade.
in b4 someone comes at my ass saying we got low 1-A without ultima, he himself unlocked every tier 1 thread and left it for other staff to evaluate so cope
So honestly if every thread passes with thing like "i talked with (insert person) and he agrees" then the entire point of debating on this forum is pointless, in fact useless, just get not to respond to major arguments from 300 people and change stance 3-4 times at once and wait for Messiah himself to finish the crt and thats all, litterally.

Now for this i wont even bother arguing, theres aura farmer @henryzx900ruly and honkai supporters who know shit better than me, and theres your messiah who already agreed so you might just ask him to comment.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

No, i think i have adressed multiple times in previous CRT that no one surpasses the Tree, not even Kiana. 12D comes from Tree having superiority over SoQ along with gazillion other bullshit ultra rushed by garrixian (like his 1-A+ slop).

Ah, not too familiar with the cosmology stuff.

So pretty much no character or weapon (including even Aeons or Star of Eden or whatever) scale to 11-D?

 

[PedjaTarzan]

Ah, not too familiar with the cosmology stuff.

So pretty much no character or weapon (including even Aeons or Star of Eden or whatever) scale to 11-D?

Theres still false god otto heavily downscaling from getting powers of the tree, but instead of AI its just 12D. and Aeons pretty much ascend to the tree on their own. my point is no one surpasses nor transcends the tree.

 

[henryzx900ruly]

No, i think i have adressed multiple times in previous CRT that no one surpasses the Tree, not even Kiana. 12D comes from Tree having superiority over SoQ along with gazillion other bullshit ultra rushed by garrixian (like his 1-A+ slop).

theres already a cosmology page go check it out

Respectfully but if the summary of part 1 crt was just the thing that nukes entire low 1-A then this downgrade is lowkey ass, it only covered absolute infinity which just gives us "possibly" low 1-a (and it does untill the entire low 1-A and AI gets revised from the tiering system like this) if we discount other dimensional transcendence and other slop from crt link even OP has put.
and its also lowkey funny that AI isnt even nuked as a tier, nor that the low 1-a in general is revised, and then we had mf who supposedly changed wikipedia page to fits his desires. and yet this passed without issues.
Comes to show how tier 1 shit passes only because daddy admins are there (1-A+ honkai where garri speedialed mods while we told him NOT to make verse 1-A) and this downgrade.
in b4 someone comes at my ass saying we got low 1-A without ultima, he himself unlocked every tier 1 thread and left it for other staff to evaluate so cope
So honestly if every thread passes with thing like "i talked with (insert person) and he agrees" then the entire point of debating on this forum is pointless, in fact useless, just get not to respond to major arguments from 300 people and change stance 3-4 times at once and wait for Messiah himself to finish the crt and thats all, litterally.

Now for this i wont even bother arguing, theres aura farmer @henryzx900ruly and honkai supporters who know shit better than me, and theres your messiah who already agreed so you might just ask him to comment.

The Wikipedia edit was low-key crazy.
Also I believe that you may be incorrect apon the state of the tree.

Also I'm probably gonna make a post regarding absolute infinity and Low 1-A revisions.

 

[PedjaTarzan]

The Wikipedia edit was low-key crazy.
Also I believe that you may be incorrect apon the state of the tree.

elaborate

Also I'm probably gonna make a post regarding absolute infinity and Low 1-A revisions.

Bro wants all the smoke

 

[Telomera]

then we had mf who supposedly changed wikipedia page to fits his desires. and yet this passed without issues.
Comes to show how tier 1 shit passes only because daddy admins are there (1-A+ honkai where garri speedialed mods while we told him NOT to make verse 1-A) and this downgrade.
in b4 someone comes at my ass saying we got low 1-A without ultima, he himself unlocked every tier 1 thread and left it for other staff to evaluate so cope
So honestly if every thread passes with thing like "i talked with (insert person) and he agrees" then the entire point of debating on this forum is pointless, in fact useless, just get not to respond to major arguments from 300 people and change stance 3-4 times at once and wait for Messiah himself to finish the crt and thats all, litterally.

That's just cope. Ultima agreed with me because I demonstrated with actual evidence that absolute infinity as Cantor put it scales to Tier 0. As for the Wikipedia edit, Agnaa did take notice of it and urged me to be more open about it in the future, but he noted that he'd let it slide in this case because my edit was backed by actual evidence.

 

[PedjaTarzan]

That's just cope. Ultima agreed with me because I demonstrated with actual evidence that absolute infinity as Cantor put it scales to Tier 0. As for the Wikipedia edit, Agnaa did take notice of it and urged me to be more open about it in the future, but he noted that he'd let it slide in this case because my edit was backed by actual evidence.

So yall just proceeded to do this in the one thread rather than revising entire tiering itself?
yeah just proves that trying to defend anything when Messiah himself agrees is pointless.
Cant revise low 1-A to fix it but can edit wikipedia official source of information for the **** of it.

 

[Telomera]

No, i think i have adressed multiple times in previous CRT that no one surpasses the Tree, not even Kiana. 12D comes from Tree having superiority over SoQ along with gazillion other bullshit ultra rushed by garrixian (like his 1-A+ slop).

So there's three aspects to that 12D scaling:

First, the Tree stores everything and is the origin of everything. But that's obviously not enough to prove 12D, even in relation to something that's 11D.

Second, it contains infinite bubble universes within itself. But that's not enough to prove a higher dimensional tier either. That's just "multiversal" but on an 11D scale. A multiverse that contains infinite Low 2-C structures doesn't magically become Tier 1.

Third, it's alleged that Honkai runs on MWI and thus has a uncountably infinite number of bubble worlds. But that's not proven.

That's quite a bit, so if you're not willing to accept that then I suppose we should just put the verse at 12D and I'll make another thread to downgrade Honkai even further to 11D.

 

[Weaver261]

I am not gonna give my arguments on this thread anymore since everything is already done. What can we do when OP went as far as editing Wikipedia page and revising vsb standard for absolute infinity.
But I will be making an upgrade to flat 1-A upgrade soon. So if you guys have plans to downgrade or upgrade the honkai cosmology, I request you to hold until my new crt is done.

 

[Telomera]

Should they not just go back to 1-B?

Because unless 1-B has problems, then the usual thing for downgrades is to revert their rating back to whatever tier they were before the upgrade.

Alright, we should be good. Honkai should be put at 1-B for now.

 

[VoidGoji]

I am not gonna give my arguments on this thread anymore since everything is already done. What can we do when OP went as far as editing Wikipedia page and revising vsb standard for absolute infinity.
But I will be making an upgrade to flat 1-A upgrade soon. So if you guys have plans to downgrade or upgrade the honkai cosmology, I request you to hold until my new crt is done.

It was agreed upon (even by supporters) that 1-A is not that solid compared to the previous Low 1-A rating. There is also a rule about not opening a new thread about the same topic (like tiering) for about 2 months after a big CRT like this is concluded.
Also, the Low 1-A (now 1-B) comes from the Tree and Imaginary Space itself