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You can read the discussion between @Solacis and @PasserbyHonkaiExpert in the beginning of this Thread's page 6 about the Lord Ravagers, galaxies and translations to answer your question, they explain it much better than I could try
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Honkai: Star Rail Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Giannysmag
- Start date
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Just a question, is there really anything that says the likes of March got stronger during the Xianzhou arc.
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To be honest, we don't have any of those statements, but considering that in JRPGs characters become trillions of times stronger or even more because of just yes
Even @Solacis agreed and accepted that could be applied to HI3 and HSR in the blog's Scaling Philosophy section he created
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I mean it's not exactly the same case. Valkyries getting stronger because they train and acquire new forms is just simply part the narrative. Such a thing doesn't happen with March.
It's not like she has any established thing that makes her grow stronger or she went through some sort of training arc.
It's not like she has any established thing that makes her grow stronger or she went through some sort of training arc.
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Some nitpick.
Yanqing should be higher cause while he got his ass handed to him, it was against Mara struck Blade and an Imbibitor that start to be a little bit serious so he shouldn't be in the same ballpark as BOG crew.
Blade base should be below Danheng due to obvious reason while Mara struck Blade should simply scale far higher since we don't know whether he scale to Imbibitor or not.
Even casual Phantylia were fighting off all of the gang pretty easily and never really show any sign of actual damage until Imbibitor come in so she should still scale above the rest, while this would kinda inflate her fullpower self, she took zero damage against the crew and was still toying around with us so it kinda make sense.
On the same line, Imbibitor attack actually cause some damage to her, i think he should scale above the rest.
There should be a separate tab for LL since it's clear he's way stronger then Jingyuan actually is and even in his animation, Jing used LL to oneshot Mara struck Jingliu who he struggled to even keep up at first.
Don't know about Charioteers stuff so won't comment on why Yukong is up there, tho Fu Xuan shouldn't be up there since she's only shown as a strategist and farseer and not much of a figther.
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Huh, Yanqing sure is fodder compared to Imbibitor Lunae, eh?
Also, are we sure the star eating monster isn't a planet eating monster instead? What is the original Chinese? Let us remove ambiguity. In Japanese, as I already said, the confusion exists in the lexicon as a single word is used for both star and planet.
Also, are we sure the star eating monster isn't a planet eating monster instead? What is the original Chinese? Let us remove ambiguity. In Japanese, as I already said, the confusion exists in the lexicon as a single word is used for both star and planet.
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With most RPGs, if a character A reasonably scales to a character B that is far stronger than character A was last known to be, then it's assumed that character A just got stronger as a product of off-screen training or some other vague reason. The only times these major power ups get called into question is when they display anti-feats at a later point in time that makes it look as if they weren't intended to have become that much stronger than originally thought.
Heck, even in Honkai 3rd this is standard. Kiana, Durandal, Bronya, etc. all tended to get massively more powerful off-screen even when they aren't explicitly shown or stated to have been training. It's just assumed that warriors train whenever they can and just grow over time, and how much they grow can only be measured by whatever new feats they show.
Does it ever make sense? Hell no. But that's the medium for you.
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Hella confused with the scaling rn.
I thought they were gonna be Tier 4 because of the 11-D downgrade but now that thread was rejected don't they stay Tier 1? Or are we ignoring the galaxies (Imaginary Tree), universal shit?
I don't care either way tbh.
I thought they were gonna be Tier 4 because of the 11-D downgrade but now that thread was rejected don't they stay Tier 1? Or are we ignoring the galaxies (Imaginary Tree), universal shit?
I don't care either way tbh.
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11-D downgrade would've only affected overall cosmology. None of the characters we currently index or plan to index are affected by cosmology changes bc no one currently scales to the cosmology.
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I will just copy and paste this comment from Spacebattles Forum's Thread about HSR
"Himeko Story 3.
''The longer the journey gets, the more travel companions she accrues. She can still remember many of them.''
''She remembers her awkward chit-chats with Pom-Pom, and how the first two passengers aboard the Express were Welt and his blond friend. She remembers how the taciturn Dan Heng defeated the monsters that can swallow stars with just one strike of his lance. She remembers how March 7th had awoken from her icy slumber, all the outfits she'd designed for March, and what March loves the most. She remembers how the Crew arrived at Herta Space Station, how she met Trailblazer, and how they'd embarked on a new journey once more.''
CN for those that can confirm
旅途越来越长，同伴越来越多，她仍能记住许多。
她记得自己与帕姆有一搭没一搭地聊天，记得列车最初的两位客人是瓦尔特和他的金发同伴。她记得寡言的丹恒如何一枪击退吞食星辰的巨兽。她记得开朗的三月七如何从陨冰中苏醒，记得自己为三月七设计的每一套装扮，记得女孩的最爱。她记得列车组如何抵达空间站「黑塔」，如何与开拓者相会，如何再次踏上全新的旅程。"
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After reading your arguments, I can likely agree with your take on Yanqing and Blade's scaling
I mean, they could still force Phantylia to use more and more of her power during the fight and they withstood Phase 2 Phantylia's star attack (which all ends are Large Star Rail regardless of the method used) and even survive her attacks in the Phase 3, where she actually uses her full power against the crew and Jing Yuan.
I can agree that Imbibitor Lunae is likely more powerful than HSR Welt, Xianzhou March 7th and Xianzhou Trailblazer, but overall the three should be in the same ballpark as Jing Yuan and Imibitor Lunae, as they could still withstand Casual Phantylia's star attack and survive a long time against Full Power Phantylia, although all of they would be eventually defeated if Phantylia wasn't so obsessed in transmutating Jing Yuan into a Voidranger, which forced her to be off-guard, allowing them to destroy her body
I think Lightning-Lord being stronger than Jing Yuan himself makes sense after reading your comments about him one-shotting Mara-Struck Jingliu who was fighting evenly with Jing Yuan and even seemingly having the upper hand before he summoned the Lightning-Lord
Here is the statement from Welt saying that Jing Yuan, Yukong, Fu Xuan and other three unknown Generals/Charioteers are comparable to Lord Ravagers
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I do have a question regarding HI3 Welt.
And that is, according to some things in HSR (How it mentions Welt was in fact a Herrscher, dealt with Honkai, and his character lore stating "it remains unknown whether or not he retains the strength from his heyday." Not to mention, the devs even stated it is the same Welt from APHO)
So, HI3 Welt should be ≥ to HSR Welt. If not outright superior (as I think I remember in APHO, Kiana already sealed the Honkai on the moon, which would have significantly weakened the Honkai already by the time APHO takes place, which should include Welt as he still retains his Herrscher powers in HSR)
And that is, according to some things in HSR (How it mentions Welt was in fact a Herrscher, dealt with Honkai, and his character lore stating "it remains unknown whether or not he retains the strength from his heyday." Not to mention, the devs even stated it is the same Welt from APHO)
So, HI3 Welt should be ≥ to HSR Welt. If not outright superior (as I think I remember in APHO, Kiana already sealed the Honkai on the moon, which would have significantly weakened the Honkai already by the time APHO takes place, which should include Welt as he still retains his Herrscher powers in HSR)
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Okay.
Can agree for now.
The marshals is Hua, pretty sure the six generals is the 6 leader in each SHIP and Fuxuan is a new one after Jingyuan retired (still hasn't played the new quest) so i doubt the statement apply to her.
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Will want someone who knows the Chinese to confirm, as it may be the case there is some ambiguity with star/planet here.
It's important to note that in our own culture, the word "planet" comes from the Greek that meant "moving star", in other words, a planet was originally just a star that moved in the sky rather than being fixed. It took us millenia to find out that they were an entirely different type of object.
Many other languages are not so nice as to have separate words for stars and planets.
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Small correction. Welt is talking about the Arbiter-Generals in this scan. The 7 Arbiter-Generals are comprised of the 6 Generals of the Xianzhou Ships and Marshal Hua. Yukong and Fu Xuan aren't included in that, as they're only the respective heads of the Sky-Faring and Divination Commissions, not Generals.
And anyway, this statement has been proven mostly false, seeing as Jing Yuan couldn't have hoped to beat Phantylia on his own.
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Just some of my own notes:
- Blade should be significantly superior to Base Dan Heng. He was clearly handing him his ass during their confrontation at Scalegorge Waterscape.
Dan Heng one-shotting the star-eater should involve a bigger gap in magnitudes too.
IMO, it should be: Mara-Unleashed Blade >> Blade > Yanqing >> Dan Heng >>>> SEM (4-C).
- Silver Wolf and Himeko shouldn't be scaled yet, since neither have shown their full capabilities in combat.
- Human Form Cocolia was able to hold her own against roughly the same team that took on Gepard, so she should at least be stronger than each member of that team individually, though I agree with her being weaker than Gepard since the fight with the latter clearly took more out of the group.
- I also don't think the Preservation Trailblazer got that big of a power boost. I'd put them 1 mag above Gepard at most, IMO. The bulk of the reason behind the defeat of Cocolia was probably moreso the strength of the group combined with the Trailblazer's power-up + the Engine of Creation.
- Less important, but I feel that it should be noted that the Trailblazer only actually started walking the Trailblaze Path around the time they joined the Astral Express, so they should be stronger in Jarilo-VI than they were in the Space Station arc.
- I'm unsure if we can consider Phantylia's final phase her "full power". She was clearly taking us lightly the entire fight, and she even emphasizes that her body in that fight was only a borrowed one. Jing Yuan also emphasizes that it would take more than even their final attack to actually take down an Emanator of Destruction. I propose renaming it to "Phase 3 Phantylia" or something similar, to avoid confusion.
Furthermore, Casual Phantylia shouldn't be below any of the people that fought her. Remember that it was a team effort to beat her, even when she was holding back significantly in her earlier phases.
- As mentioned before, Yukong and Fu Xuan aren't generals. They wouldn't be comparable to Jing Yuan. At best, Fu Xuan would be a little stronger than the Xianzhou Arc Trio individually, from her display against Kafka.
- Speaking of Kafka, Blade should be considered stronger than her in a fight. Elio recruited Blade specifically for his strength and immortality.
- Jingliu should also be far stronger than that. She was stronger than Imbibitor Lunae during the flashback in Dan Heng's animated short, and she'd only gotten stronger since becoming Mara-struck, by her own words. She's likely currently stronger than Jing Yuan and Lightning Lord.
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Fair enough
To be fair, the Phantylia that the crew and Jing Yuan fought was being powered by the Abundance's power she absorbed from the Ambrosial Arbor and added it with the Destruction's power she already had before, it only shows that Phantylia with the powers of Abundance and Destruction combined is that strong, not that Jing Yuan, Marshal Hua and the other Generals are weak compared to other Lord Ravagers
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The same is true in Chinese and Japanese. The term "星" refers to heavenly bodies in general. To specifically refer to planets, in Japanese they use the term "Wakusei" (惑星) which literally means "wandering star".
In Chinese the term used for planet seems to be "行星" which has the same meaning (In fact all the terms can be used in both China and Japan, they are just rarer in some regions).
The problem, at least in Japanese, is that since the term "planet" still carries the kanji for "star", when they want they just reduce the term to just "星" while still carrying the reading of "sei" to refer to something being a planet, it's easier to notice that when it's reading because it's different from Hoshi. But sometimes they still are read as Hoshi even if the intended meaning is Wakusei, and that is when confusion arises. But it's false to say that in Japanese or Chinese there are no words to refer to planets and stars differently, there are, it's just that most writers and people, in general, prefer to reduce the number of things you need to read/listen to if the context is specific enough. It's no different to how they, for example, can write entire dialogue without any mention of pronouns because you are supposed to understand by context alone, or using words without the specific use of plural (That yes, does exist in Japanese, and I suppose that is the same in Chinese).
The term used here seems to be "星辰". The first is the character of the celestial body/star. The second "辰" is yet another general term for celestial body. So it's just reinforcing the idea that it's a celestial body.
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I mean, a bloodlusted Blade already fought Dan Heng many times, with the outcomes of their fights being that Blade always ends up being incapacitated, but all the times he returned and survived his mortal injuries due to his insane regeneration, but I agree that Yanqing is stronger than Human Form Dan Heng.
I mean, I can see your reasons for your take on Silver Wolf's scaling, but I disagree with with your take on Himeko's, since she canonically helped the Trailblazer, Dan Heng and March 7th in the fight against the Doomsday Beast and performed as good as the other three during the battle against the boss.
I mean, I think this is more Phantylia being a bad loser trying to make excuses of why she lost, we can see pretty all the time her being arrogant while she was in her physical body but being wrong, as she took so much effort to try to kill those she call "ants", and I think that Full Power and Phase 3 of Phantylia are simple the same thing, she was just getting serious and we can see her expressions that she isn't fooling around anymore and takes the crew and Jing Yuan seriously after the latter's provocation, but I agree that Full Power/Phase 3 Phantylia is stronger than them and they would be eventually defeated and killed if she wasn't obsessed in trying to transform Jing Yuan into a Voidranger, but my main argument it is that they could withstand her Phase 2's star attack (High 4-C) when she is still being casual and they can match those who can harm them, and they even managed to survive attacks from her Phase 3 state were she is using more power than when she performed the High 4-C feat, although they would eventually die if the fight was prolongued for a much longer time.
Kafka canonically defeated Blade and beaten him up so bad to the point that he was left in a bloodied state, incapacitated and thought that "he must have died", with Kafka confident in stating that she "could always kill him".
To be fair, Jing Yuan already fought Mara-Struck Jingliu as we saw in the animated short and he battled her relatively evenly before the memories of his past with her disturbed him, and after being pressured and pushed back, then he finally decides to use his Lightning-Lord, one-shotting and knocked her out.
The points I didn't answer mean that I agree with you
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Wow, I really got my ass brutally beaten by the New Simulated Universe's Swarm Disaster, the Level 3 Swarm: True Sting managed to three shot my team even with a combination of Luocha, Fire Trailblazer, Bronya and Yanqing besides the Destruction and Remembrance Ressonance which allows to low the enemies RES to keep them frozen, this reminds me of the first versions of the Elysian Realm, when Benares bullied me multiple times, no matter how good my Signets were
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Tfw this permanent event is way more entertaining than what we have so far on Genshin lmao
Yeah it's freaking hard but ngl this is a fun challenge even if it's not f2p friendly so far
Yeah it's freaking hard but ngl this is a fun challenge even if it's not f2p friendly so far
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So, I finally managed to beat the Swarm Disaster Level 3, I used the Elation Path, got nearly all of its blessings, enhanced the golden ones, and then used its Ressonance with the paths of Abundance and Remembrance, you also should never gave that bugs a chance to attack your team, if not they can three shot you, keep attacking them until they die
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Man, the old Aeons look sick
Tazzyronth the Propagation
Ena the Order
Ouroboros the Voracity
Tazzyronth the Propagation
Ena the Order
Ouroboros the Voracity
Giannysmag
He/Him- 3,240
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- Thread starter
- #624
Ouroboros the Voracity
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So, I was playing the Swarm Disaster and I managed to unlock IX's Communing Trial, it seems now that the Xianzhou Luofu Arc Trailblazer was able to resist nearly all of IX's passive haxxes and stand in its front for a while, the only hax the TB was unable to resist was IX's new one, it now has Passive Sleep Manipulation with its presence alone
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Easy.
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So this aeon are confirmed holding the entire universe?
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Don't Simulated Universe feats only apply to Akivili the Trailblaze and not the Trailblazer?
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From what I remember, the Simulated Universe only changes the Trailblazer's appearance to Akivili's in the Aeons' eyes, not his physiology
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I think yes, since the dialogue heavily implies that Ena is holding the universe to observe and keep it in order, preventing from any harm/destruction
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So it could easily be planets, right? Nothing specifically says it has to be a star, so far.
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1. Their 4-C is baseline, so no upscaling
2. They already have another High 4-C feat so it's not like it matters much
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Actually, thinking about it, IL Dan Heng might be abit higher.
So since we know that the trio are, generally, comparable and the only time when there was an actual discrepency is when they got power up. Since March was able to magically caught up with TB, it would make sense that Dan Heng also caught up to TB. So that would actually make Mara struck blade high 4C due to clearly overpowering Dan Heng and Yanqing scale to High 4C due to being able to stall him and not die despite Blade seemingly went serious after seeing a Jingliu look alike technique, this would make Imbibitor scale way higher then what Enryu show due to obvious reason.
The only way for this to not be true is for Dan Heng to somehow not grow in power at all despite March did.
Now this would obviously inflate Phantylia phase 3 abit as she neg diffed the group, but it does play into her toying around and never was serious about killing us, tho i do admit that gap does look abit funky.
So since we know that the trio are, generally, comparable and the only time when there was an actual discrepency is when they got power up. Since March was able to magically caught up with TB, it would make sense that Dan Heng also caught up to TB. So that would actually make Mara struck blade high 4C due to clearly overpowering Dan Heng and Yanqing scale to High 4C due to being able to stall him and not die despite Blade seemingly went serious after seeing a Jingliu look alike technique, this would make Imbibitor scale way higher then what Enryu show due to obvious reason.
The only way for this to not be true is for Dan Heng to somehow not grow in power at all despite March did.
Now this would obviously inflate Phantylia phase 3 abit as she neg diffed the group, but it does play into her toying around and never was serious about killing us, tho i do admit that gap does look abit funky.
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So, after I saw the leaks of 1.5 banners, there isn't a character I really liked the designs or its set-up of their abilities that are interesting enough for me to pull for them, I think I will try to pull for Fu Xuan and use what is left of my jades to pull for Topaz later
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I don't have strong Fire, Wind or Electric units so am looking at Topaz. Absolutely stacked in Quantum, Imaginary and Ice tho.
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Who are they?
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The first banner of 1.5 is a 5 Stars Physical Erudition character and the second banner is a 5 Stars Wind Abundance character, the latter who doesn't even has cleanse
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You said 1.5 banners earlier, why now changed to 1.6? Also no names for them yet?
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Lol, sorry for this error, I had typed it wrong last night, my sleep was getting stronger so I typed the "1.6" instead of "1.5" and I forgot to fix it, but yeah, what I talked above is about the 1.5 banners
Their names are:
5 Stars Physical Erudition character - Argenti (male)
5 Stars Wind Abundance character - HuoHuo (female)
4 Stars Physical Harmony character - Hanya (female)
