Honkai: Star Rail Discussion Thread

[SuperNova55555]

i think not even you yourself know what you're talking about at this point

No, you’re just confused on your critique. I’d implore you to accurately quantify what you actually mean by that statement if you genuinely think it holds any ground.

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

No, you’re just confused on your critique. I’d implore you to accurately quantify what you actually mean by that statement if you genuinely think it holds any ground.

i love it when you try to sound academic

If the functions of the Path are derivative of the energy, then to assume that the Path is simultaneously a universal requires you to commit to a second function, so that the Path simultaneously does the same job as Energy but also as Concept which is extremely unparsimonious.

are you not saying that path's effects are produced by path energy?

 

[SuperNova55555]

i love it when you try to sound academic

Aigh bruv, Ill talm like ts, ye?

are you not saying that path's effects are produced by path energy?

Ye, a Path’s effects are produced by the Path Energy… which is just the Path itself.

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

Aigh bruv, Ill talm like ts, ye?

too much punctuation bludd

Ye, a Path’s effects are produced by the Path Energy… which is just the Path itself.

okay? but path energy is just a manifestation of a path. especially when theyre explicitly stated to be multifaceted. they are definitely not raw energy. they have many ways to manifest. energy is drawn from paths. its not the paths themselves. the raw energy is the undistilled IE that is taken by aeons and shaped into paths. in turn, path "energy" is just the IE but molded through a path's principles.

 

[SuperNova55555]

okay? but path energy is just a manifestation of a path. especially when theyre explicitly stated to be multifaceted. they are definitely not raw energy. they have many ways to manifest. energy is drawn from paths. its not the paths themselves. the raw energy is the undistilled IE that is taken by aeons and shaped into paths. in turn, path "energy" is just the IE but molded through a path's principles.

You saw my previous message. You saw the scan of Welt saying Paths are the energy itself. The concept is just a property of the energy. Which is, ya know, how Aeons transform the energy in the first place when they ascend.

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

You saw my previous message. You saw the scan of Welt saying Paths are the energy itself. The concept is just a property of the energy. Which is, ya know, how Aeons transform the energy in the first place when they ascend.

that's just one way they manifest. himeko also calls them a philosophical concept which is why it requires alignment with it in some manner to draw from it. so surely, they are more than just those two. but originally, yes, it is energy. imaginary energy that is then taken by aeons to create more specific things. including laws and concepts that govern the universe.

also based on what RM said, a concept within the voracity changed and its manifestations in turn changed as well. that treats the conceptual alteration as the cause and not as a property emergent from altered energy. if you want to argue concepts are only energetic properties (or those first and anything else second) you'd need evidence that the path is reducible to its energy rather than the energy being an expression of the path.

 

[SuperNova55555]

you'd need evidence that the path is reducible to its energy

Yea I don’t need to do this because the series tells you straight-up. The entire comment is just conjecture that seemingly ignores the very obvious option harmonizing the issue which is that “philosophical concept” here is just a quantifier of the path energy itself. Which should be exceedingly obvious but I guess not.

The untamed imaginary energy surges endlessly through space-time vasculature, and forms at its tips "star clusters" that humans can understand — in other words, countless worlds.

The game in fact tells you how the effects of Imaginary Energy works, in that the energy itself forms the objects. The concept of a path is just the determiner of what that energy manifests.

Himeko: Therefore, only Aeons, who draw their energy from the imaginary, and Emanators, who are blessed by Aeons, can travel through the spaces filled with imaginary energy. That's why planets where civilizations exist are so similar.

Because again, going by this^ and Welt’s statement, you’d also have to explain how the Authority of an Aeon is seemingly detached from imaginary energy, because now it once again assumes their power is seemingly twofold, when it doesn’t necessitate it being as such.

 

[PlungingThroughTime]

Recently? In part 2 when Senadina meets it.

She says beyond time and space.

Earlier? When it’s stated that there’s a number of dimensions between us and the Cocoon.

This was a theory iirc.

 

[SuperNova55555]

She says beyond time and space.

Yea but then it’s clarified that it’s in reference of Cocoon simply being of a higher dimension. I mean, this was part of the reason used for 12D ye? That someone with access to IT (11D) could not retrieve cognition from Cocoon’s dimension so it was 12D.

 

[PlungingThroughTime]

Yea but then it’s clarified that it’s in reference of Cocoon simply being of a higher dimension. I mean, this was part of the reason used for 12D ye? That someone with access to IT (11D) could not retrieve cognition from Cocoon’s dimension so it was 12D.

I don't think she did. I think the closest is in the CN: 'surpasses one's original dimension' but that's changed in the English to 'those not acknowledged by the Cocoon cannot take anything from here.'
Also surpasses one's original dimension could be both dimensional and dimensionless.

The reason used for 12D was the schrodinger scan with 'surpass all dimensions' I believe

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

Yea I don’t need to do this because the series tells you straight-up. The entire comment is just conjecture that seemingly ignores the very obvious option harmonizing the issue which is that “philosophical concept” here is just a quantifier of the path energy itself. Which should be exceedingly obvious but I guess not.


The game in fact tells you how the effects of Imaginary Energy works, in that the energy itself forms the objects. The concept of a path is just the determiner of what that energy manifests.


Because again, going by this^ and Welt’s statement, you’d also have to explain how the Authority of an Aeon is seemingly detached from imaginary energy, because now it once again assumes their power is seemingly twofold, when it doesn’t necessitate it being as such.

That’s not something the game states but your interpretation of how paths and IE relate. Himeko explicitly separates them.

So you still haven’t shown where the text equates a path to IE or says concepts are just properties of that energy. You’re assuming reduction by collapsing everything into a single when layer the dialogue seperates it. You are just stuck forcing your interpretations again...

And at least try to done down the needless passive aggressiveness and condescension.

 

[SuperNova55555]

I don't think she did. I think the closest is in the CN: 'surpasses one's original dimension' but that's changed in the English to 'those not acknowledged by the Cocoon cannot take anything from here.'
Also surpasses one's original dimension could be both dimensional and dimensionless.

The reason used for 12D was the schrodinger scan with 'surpass all dimensions' I believe

Dw eventually Ill catch up to Part 2 and finally comprehend all the larped statements

That’s not something the game states but your interpretation of how paths and IE relate. Himeko explicitly separates them.

So you still haven’t shown where the text equates a path to IE or says concepts are just properties of that energy. You’re assuming reduction by collapsing everything into a single when layer the dialogue seperates it. You are just stuck forcing your interpretations again...

And at least try to done down the needless passive aggressiveness and condescension.

Welt: These intelligent beings are called Aeons and the energy THEY possess is called Paths. Aeons are free to use THEIR Paths' energy however THEY please, but are also bound by it.

 

[Mbpoops]

Recently? In part 2 when Senadina meets it.

“Beyond space and time” = higher dimensiomal

Earlier? When it’s stated that there’s a number of dimensions between us and the Cocoon.

When tesla said maybe its the number of dimensions? As in shes unsure of why they cant locate it with their technology? Because its beyond space and time?

Honestly, there’s quite a bit.

Show?

 

[SuperNova55555]

“Beyond space and time” = higher dimensiomal

Nono. That’s an analogy to it being above conventional dimensions. The point is that since Cocoon has more dimensions than usual, you cannot retrieve cognition from it.

When tesla said maybe its the number of dimensions? As in shes unsure of why they cant locate it with their techknowlogy? Because its beyond space and time?

Haven’t gotten to this part yet but it would be highly odd for it to somehow be confused for higher-dimensionality rather than quantitative non-extentionality.

Show?

This one in the justification for HDE for example.

Aside from that there’s also the fact Honkai is explicitly a higher-dimensional energy. So it’d have to imply that the Cocoon completely lacks HE. Which is pretty explicitly contradicted. In here you can also put in the issue of Imaginary Space itself.

There’s also the issue with how Imaginary Singularities work. They’re not non-dimensional in a quantitatively non-extensional way but rather non-dimensional in a 0-dimensional way. In that, they are dots. And we know this for a fact because PE Singularities are 0D points but CE Singularities are 1D strings looped to mimic 0 dimensions. So to argue that they speak of dimensionality differently requires an immense burden to satisfy the category error.

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

Dw eventually Ill catch up to Part 2 and finally comprehend all the larped statements

thats not really the full quote...

About the Paths...
Welt: We still need to study the nature of the Paths. For now, we can only describe it as a "philosophical concept."
Welt: It is a part of the Imaginary element, the metaphysical aggregation of the spirit. When specific conditions are met, an intelligent being will completely take over this part of the Imaginary.
Welt: These intelligent beings are called Aeons and the energy THEY possess is called Paths. Aeons are free to use THEIR Paths' energy however THEY please, but are also bound by it.

This quote distinguishes layers. IE is the substrate and paths are described as structured parts of it that aeons take over. That doesn’t reduce them to energy properties. It just adds a governing layer. Besides, IE is not "just" energy either.