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Speed Equalized
Who wins and why?
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Ichigo vs. Groudon
- Thread starter SuperKamiNappa
- Start date
Speed Equalized
Who wins and why?
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Huge debate going on in Aizen vs Kyogre and nothing in this, Lol.
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- Thread starter
- #5
Groudon-1
Ichigo-0
Ichigo-0
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Yea going with Groudon with same reasoning.
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- Thread starter
- #7
Groudon-2
Ichigo-0
Ichigo-0
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How does Groudon have more ways to put Ichigo down?
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- Thread starter
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The only thing Ichigo can do is swing his sword or a very limited amount of energy Attacks while Groudon can use Ground, Fire, Fighting, Grass, and Rock moves by level-up alone. Not to mention it has a One-Hit KO move in the form of Fissure although since Ichigo can fly I don't think that will be useful.Burning Full Fingers said:
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Also wouldnt Z-Moves be applied here?
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That's a good question actually, I'm not sure if they are generally allowed. From my understanding Pokemon are usually limited to moves they learn naturally. But I guess I'll allow Groudon to use a Z-Move.ProfessorKukui4Life said:
EDIT: Scratch that I just remembered Groudon needs an item to use his Primal form so he literally can't use any Z-moves
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Primal forms have nothing to do with Z-moves. Thats his Primal Reversion.
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It needs to have a move of the right type and the right Z-crystal at the same time and that's just assuming it doesn't also need a trainer with a Z-ring.ProfessorKukui4Life said:
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Well again, we allow Mega Evolution, Primal Reversion and Z-Moves so we probably ignore that. But I could be wrong.
Also since Primal Groudon is a separate key if you're using that key then he's starting this with Primal.
Also since Primal Groudon is a separate key if you're using that key then he's starting this with Primal.
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- #16
Groudon-2
Ichigo-1
Ichigo-1
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They're allowed, yes, but that doesn't mean that they don't have requirements. Assuming he doesn't need a trainer for Z-Moves, all three abilities require items, and Groudon outright needs the Red Orb to be 5-C unless they're fighting in the Cave of Origin, but that isn't stated. Not sure what they Z-Moves will really do, regardless.
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Ichigo, we'll post reason why in a bit
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Groudon, because Ichigo has no such resistance to Fire Manipulation as shown when Captain Yamamoto instruct him to avoid getting harm by his Rajin Jakka. Also here is Groudon's natural move list: http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Groudon_(Pokémon)#By_leveling_up
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Groudon-3
Ichigo-1
Ichigo-1
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@Derp It does depend on what kind of fire it is as it is more like a case by case kind of thing, but in this case, it will be more than likely ignore durability due to it being magma being used for these kind of moves.
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Groupon via versatility, vastly greater experience, vastly higher stamina, higher intelligence, a huge reach advantage (allowing him to hit Ichigo more easily and keep him at arms length), and intense sunlight could potentially disorient Ichigos sight.
Groudon has literally everything going for it in this match except maybe a slight brute strength disadvantage, but it's only "possibly"
Groudon has literally everything going for it in this match except maybe a slight brute strength disadvantage, but it's only "possibly"
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@Derp It is mainly because of the game mechanics and due to eruption could potentially one shot a pokemon since it is based on hp which in return is a game mechanic unto itself. We ignored game mechanics as it is regarded as uncanon.
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@Derp As I said earlier, it is a case by case basic and when did you were tell it has to be wall level durability which it is incorrect.
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@Derp Hmm that is rather odd as that does indeed sound like a resistance feat rather than all out immuntity feat to fire. Also the human skin can be burned by lava in this case. Hence I felt that being questionable. It is all subjective too not to mention as lava can clearly kill a human as they don't have the durability for that matter. Not to mention they mention robots for that matter.
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Whether its robots or humans, durability is durability, is it not? If a character who can bust down walls can survive lava, then characters who can bust the moon certainly can, right?
I'm not saying that Groudon's lava is only wall level, though. It would be obviously be moon level because of his AP. I'm just saying that Lava manipulation doesn't always mean Durability Negation.
I'm not saying that Groudon's lava is only wall level, though. It would be obviously be moon level because of his AP. I'm just saying that Lava manipulation doesn't always mean Durability Negation.
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@Derp Then what about Magma then? In any case, Ichigo has shown no such resistance to these form of attacks. And durability doesn't apply to resistances for it unless they were explicitly shown or stated as such. Also Donttalk should stated that will be resistance. Also indirect heat for that matter plus logic doesn't apply to all forms of fiction.
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Lava and Magma are the same, though. Ones on the surface, one isn't.
I'm aware that fiction doesn't make sense all the time. I wouldn't say that in a speed equalized match, Groudon could kill Hit, Superman, Thor, or Galactus just because he spits fire/lava/magma at people, though.
I'm aware that fiction doesn't make sense all the time. I wouldn't say that in a speed equalized match, Groudon could kill Hit, Superman, Thor, or Galactus just because he spits fire/lava/magma at people, though.
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@Derp Fair enough though not exactly as they have the hax and speed to make the lava attacks useless plus magma is this:
Magma is a mixture of molten or semi-molten rock, volatiles and solids that is found beneath the surface of the Earth, and is expected to exist on other terrestrial planets and some natural satellites while Lava is the molten rock expelled by a volcano during an eruption. The resulting rock after solidification and cooling is also called lava. The molten rock is formed in the interior of some planets, including Earth, and other planets. Hence why they are differnet from each other.
Magma is a mixture of molten or semi-molten rock, volatiles and solids that is found beneath the surface of the Earth, and is expected to exist on other terrestrial planets and some natural satellites while Lava is the molten rock expelled by a volcano during an eruption. The resulting rock after solidification and cooling is also called lava. The molten rock is formed in the interior of some planets, including Earth, and other planets. Hence why they are differnet from each other.
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He could actually kill Goku with it lol
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@IronKirby Kinda the reason I went with Hit.
@Star That explanation doesn't really say anything other than they're in different locations, like my definition.
I also said in a speed equalized match. Obviously they'd destroy him otherwise. Hits page also doesn't mention any Anti-Lava hax, though, just attacks that would decimate Groudon himself. If speed is equalized, though, it can be assumed that both will get a hit in, and Groudon likes to use lava/fire attacks.
@Star That explanation doesn't really say anything other than they're in different locations, like my definition.
I also said in a speed equalized match. Obviously they'd destroy him otherwise. Hits page also doesn't mention any Anti-Lava hax, though, just attacks that would decimate Groudon himself. If speed is equalized, though, it can be assumed that both will get a hit in, and Groudon likes to use lava/fire attacks.
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@Derp No as the fact they can reality wrap it, freeze it (Superman has the freezing breath remember), Intangibility, and even manipulated it against Groudon. Also that is the explanation on why they are different after all and it isn't location based at all as it has no mention to locations. Beside you clearly don't get it until you get into science a bit more.
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Wait I just realized as the OP never mentioned on what version of Ichigo it is so this is more than likely assuming the higher versions of both characters.
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@derp Still hilarious to think nonetheless
@statkiller I assume it's 5-C considering Ichigo gets godstomped otherwise.
@statkiller I assume it's 5-C considering Ichigo gets godstomped otherwise.
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@IronKirby True that.
@Star What? It said they're both molten rock, ones underground, one is the molten rock spat out of a volcano, and that the Lava could have potentially solidified.
To quote your definition...
"Magma is a mixture of molten or semi-molten rock, volatiles and solids that is found beneath the surface of the Earth, and is expected to exist on other terrestrial planets and some natural satellites while Lava is the molten rock expelled by a volcano during an eruptio. The resulting rock after solidification and cooling is also called lava. The molten rock is formed in the interior of some planets, including Earth, and other planets. Hence why they are differnet from each other."
All the websites I've googled just now support my definition.
"Magma is composed of molten rock and is stored in the Earth's crust. Lava is magma that reaches the surface of our planet through a volcano vent."
"Scientists use the term magma for molten rock underground and lava for molten rock (and contained gases) that breaks through the Earth's surface."
"They are both molten rock, and are both associated with volcanism. So why the separate names? As it turns out, it all comes down to location."
"The differences between magma and lava can be both subtle and complex, but to put it simply, we call it magma when it is beneath the ground (hasn't erupted), and lava after it erupts."
Granted, I just googled them and didn't read very far into any of them. However, that's pretty much their opening lines. One of them is a .gov, even. For all intents and purposes, they're the same thing. No fiction I've ever read or watched makes a big distinction other than to be scientifically accurate, so I don't see why we should here. Hell, these magma based attacks in Pokemon are simply fire type moves instead of ground or rock type moves, seeing how its just molten rock.
@Edit If I came off as rude, sorry. I don't intend any hostility.
@Star What? It said they're both molten rock, ones underground, one is the molten rock spat out of a volcano, and that the Lava could have potentially solidified.
To quote your definition...
"Magma is a mixture of molten or semi-molten rock, volatiles and solids that is found beneath the surface of the Earth, and is expected to exist on other terrestrial planets and some natural satellites while Lava is the molten rock expelled by a volcano during an eruptio. The resulting rock after solidification and cooling is also called lava. The molten rock is formed in the interior of some planets, including Earth, and other planets. Hence why they are differnet from each other."
All the websites I've googled just now support my definition.
"Magma is composed of molten rock and is stored in the Earth's crust. Lava is magma that reaches the surface of our planet through a volcano vent."
"Scientists use the term magma for molten rock underground and lava for molten rock (and contained gases) that breaks through the Earth's surface."
"They are both molten rock, and are both associated with volcanism. So why the separate names? As it turns out, it all comes down to location."
"The differences between magma and lava can be both subtle and complex, but to put it simply, we call it magma when it is beneath the ground (hasn't erupted), and lava after it erupts."
Granted, I just googled them and didn't read very far into any of them. However, that's pretty much their opening lines. One of them is a .gov, even. For all intents and purposes, they're the same thing. No fiction I've ever read or watched makes a big distinction other than to be scientifically accurate, so I don't see why we should here. Hell, these magma based attacks in Pokemon are simply fire type moves instead of ground or rock type moves, seeing how its just molten rock.
@Edit If I came off as rude, sorry. I don't intend any hostility.
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@Derp You do realize we petty much derailed the thread because of this right? Hence I gonna ignore on what we have been ongoing here. I think if we continue this even more, we just derail the thread over what it goes. Beside that, Groudon does have other moves beside that. It also further supported my definition rather than just yours alone though what we are going into speculation and assumptions as well.
