I'm back with an Elder Scrolls vs Sword Art Online match!

[Keeweed]

But what is the best for the Dragonborn is unknown (also that means Quinella one shots instantly).

 

[Xmark12]

Hm, guess in-character Quinella vs bloodlusted Dragonborn?

 

[Keeweed]

It still a 8-A with law manipulation vs a High 8-C that possibly could kill them if they could actually land any hits, which they most likely won't.

 

[Xmark12]

At least the Dragonborn still has ways to win, and this isn't a stomp according to how this thread went.

 

[Keeweed]

I don't know, this feels like a stomp; 8-A ap and defense plus law manipulation and transmutation vs a high 8-C that may or may not even have transmutation and that's a big Maybe.

 

[Xmark12]

Shouldn't the Dragonborn have all of their shouts at this point? Or at least most of them that aren't part of the main campaign from what my playthrough went by.

Also the thread I linked had 6-C durability neg vs a High 8-C that never uses magic, the only thing that could kill his opponent, in-character. So...

 

[KongKing23]

Given how you described, Quinella is incapable of deflecting energy and even hax. TES magic in all forms is reality warping, something is way above SAO capability.

From what you are saying, she would most likely be atomized by a blast of fire or shock magic in the face

 

[Keeweed]

Shouldn't the Dragonborn have all of their shouts at this point? Or at least most of them that aren't part of the main campaign from what my playthrough went by.

Also the thread I linked had 6-C durability neg vs a High 8-C that never uses magic, the only thing that could kill his opponent, in-character. So...

No, he only has Fus or Fus Ro. Also it's not a character problem it's that he literally doesn't have the Wabbajack due to it being in a different key or being straight up non canon.

 

[Keeweed]

Given how you described, Quinella is incapable of deflecting energy and even hax. TES magic in all forms is reality warping, something is way above SAO capability.

The reality Warping is how they cast magic it has nothing to do with its power, also no she doesn't get atomized because it's just regular fire and she has the regen to heal it off.

 

[Xmark12]

Quinella can create barriers to deflect those too, it's just that a passive barrier that deflects metal objects is constantly surrounding her too.

I literally specified that this early game Dragonborn has all of her abilities, regardless of if it's early game, mid game, or late game.

 

[Ogbunabali]

If the Dovahkiin has all of Daedric artifacts / spells then it's probably a win or even a stomp.

 

[Xmark12]

It's just abilities. He just has standard equipment.

 

[Ywlrvl]

Given how you described, Quinella is incapable of deflecting energy and even hax. TES magic in all forms is reality warping, something is way above SAO capability.

>reality warping

>something above sao capability

>nobody mentions incarnation

angry screeching noises

 

[Keeweed]

I literally specified that this early game Dragonborn has all of her abilities, regardless of if it's early game, mid game, or late game.

They don't have all their abilities though, that's ignoring everything about the plot. This fight can't be added if that's the case because they shouldn't have those abilities.

 

[StarSlayer666]

I think that the Eternal Champio would be a better opponent.

 

[Keeweed]

I think that the Eternal Champio would be a better opponent.

He also gets stomped due to being a 8-B+ vs a 8-A that law manipulates all of his abilities.

 

[KongKing23]

I need a scan on Quinella deflects an actual energy attack

 

[Keeweed]

That's not the problem, the problem is she has 8-A attacks vs a High 8-C with only one energy attack (Wabbajack) that actually does anything due to her regen, and he doesn't even have the Wabbajack in the first place due to being non canon. Also 8-A shield block anything else due to everything being High 8-C. (Ignoring the the obvious thing that makes this stomp for the Dragonborn *Cough* giving them abilities they shouldn't have in this key)

 

[Keeweed]

Holy shit you know what I just realized, this is the Dragonborn's only win condition: they first have to pull out the Wabbajack which already most likely isn't canon, they then have to have it in their high 8-C key despite it being unlikely, then they actually have to chose to pull it out in the first place instead of using the thu'um that does nothing due to 8-A shield, then they have to pray to god the Wabbajack doesn't do something absolutely worthless like creating a explosion that in this scenario is high 8-C vs a 8-A force field or healing her, then they have to deal with being killed by a literal sigh before they even manage to pull a weapon out at all. How the hell does Quinella not stomp!? (Any other attack the Dragonborn tries misses because law manipulation or is brushed off by regen (and yes he's acausal but their weapon's aren't))

 

[KongKing23]

Where did you pull the idea of Legendary artifacts not being canon?

I haven't started getting on other artifacts and esoteric abilities. Not to mention that The Key here only covers main questline, so it does not apply for side quests. I have a habit of finishing major side quests except Civil War before doing the main one.

Again, my energy attack argument lies on magicka not Daedric/Aedric esotericism in their artifacts. Those artifacts defied all laws of reality and have immeasurable speed. I need some scan where she actually deflects a lightning bolt in the face.

 

[Keeweed]

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1822169?useskin=oasis Found it, the post are near the very bottom and I think it continues onto the second thread linked at the bottom (never mind it ends at the end of the thread)

Here (I should point out I want them to be canon but it was decided to be a no), also the Daedric artifacts (Auriel's Bow isn't a Daedric artifact and that's the only one with immeasurable speed) is high 6-A for one shoting Lord Harko's shield so it isn't in this key.

• Edit Auto Correct if you Mistake isn't for is one more time I swear.

 

[Keeweed]

Also the lighting bolt is High 8-C to her 8-A force fields they do jack shit (and one final nail in the coffin is that she out ranges him by miles). Also once again mid regen that acts almost instantly negates burning or electricing her to death.

 

[KongKing23]

Daedric/Aedric artifacts in general have no speed restrain as they are already extensions of godlike beings. I am really confused by your saying, because it is apparently clear that Dovahkiin can acquire all artifacts in his/her journey without problem of consistency. I don't even get into Creation Club stuffs that one can acquire at the beginning of the game, but I don't want to get into that part yet.

I don't see forcefield manipulation on her profile, but I only see barriers preventing "physical weapons" not energy-based attack. There is no indication of 8-A forcefield in your claim.

 

[Keeweed]

Ok maybe the justification needs to be changed due to being confusing but that still doesn't change this. Durability: "at least Multi-City Block level, likely far higher with Sacred Arts". Also what are you talking about when it comes to the Daedric artifacts speed. They are not immeasurable, they move as fast as the Dragonborn swings them (which in this case is Massively Hypersonic+) them being immeasurable would bring up so many problems with the scaling and just comes right out of nowhere. They are (if I believe your earlier statement) parts of a low 1-C, that says jack about their speed.

 

[Keeweed]

Sorry if I'm being rude (it's pretty late at my house and I'm not a night person) but I'm mostly just flabbergasted, I really want to know where immeasurable speed Daedric artifacts comes from because that comes straight out of left field for me, I'm almost goddamn speaklesss after hearing that. If you have evidence, great, but I'm going to need to see that.

 

[KongKing23]

Artifacts, while having physical forms, also have full potential that one can use in the lore. Swinging is partially gameplay mechanic and also a physical disguise of the artifact. In lore, Ebony Blade with true potential can instantly siphon souls and lifeforce of people around its wielder in ESO. The guy did not have to swing at all! Or Umbra can take away a chunk of land and corrupt the populace on the surroundings. My point rests in the fact that legendary artifacts defy conventional laws of physics and do not subjugate to speed whatsoever.

Again, I am not quite convinced about Sacred Arts. The description does not apply to those attacks that ignore conventional durability or laws of physics.

 

[KongKing23]

Again, Matthew said that you can't find exact evidences about Thu'um because the writings about it scattered. The nature of Aedric/Daedric Artifacts is similar, and it requires a scholar to conceptualize based on the abilities and cosmic physiology of gods. As you already acknowledged that artifacts are parts of gods, so it is natural for them to ignore laws of physics and reality. Speed is part of it, and it is natural to reject such thing limiting the potency of any godlike artifact.

 

[Keeweed]

But the attack that ignores durability doesn't hit because the weapon misses. Also I'm pretty sure Umbra was amped to Hell when it did the island thing, and stealing people's life force instantly isn't immeasurable speed, and is outranged by miles. And isn't in the key, if they break down reality and can move islands why would they ever be in the High 8-C key especially when the Dragonborns gets a High 6-A key 3 to 4 quest into the game. These reality defying objectives are pretty ******* weak if there High 8-C oh wait they actually have feats that place them higher. The axe can kill Barbas a low 2-C, Auriel's bow can one shot Harkon's shields who is High 6-A, Molog Bal considers his Mace as an unstoppable weapons so it being on par with the average mage makes no sense.

 

[KongKing23]

But the attack that ignores durability doesn't hit because the weapon misses. Also I'm pretty sure Umbra was amped to Hell when it did the island thing, and stealing people's life force instantly isn't immeasurable speed, and is outranged by miles. And isn't in the key, if they break down reality and can move islands why would they ever be in the High 8-C key especially when the Dragonborns gets a High 6-A key 3 to 4 quest into the game. These reality defying objectives are pretty ******* weak if there High 8-C oh wait they actually have feats that place them higher. The axe can kill Barbas a low 2-C, Auriel's bow can one shot Harkon's shields who is High 6-A, Molog Bal considers his Mace as an unstoppable weapons so it being on par with the average mage makes no sense.

> Physical attacks =/= Non-physical/Intangible/Reality warping/Magickal attacks. You can't apply a different quality with an entirely different quality. The shield can only stop physical attacks and never demonstrates resistance against attacks of non-physical nature.

> I don't understand your rant about artifacts. The line about Molog Bal basically answers what I have been trying to explain all along. Artifacts aren't determined with the tier system.

 

[Keeweed]

I really should be sleeping but I post one last comment before going to bed. I mean the metaphysical effect can't take place if the weapon missed completely, the razor can't death hax without stabbing the opponent, the Ebony Blade could actually work but it's outranged like everything else, Quinella's range: "kilometers", Dragonborn's "hundreds of meters". The second point is that Daedric artifacts have physical feats that place them above High 8-C the runeaxe can physically kill Barbas whom is low 2-C is arguing that the Daedric artifacts are High 8-C when it depends completely on their background information, some maybe are high 8-C now that I think about that, but any of them that could actually do anything, probably not.

 

[KongKing23]

I have stated that the legendary artifacts defied conventional laws and probably logic themselves. The metaphysical applications based on lore would not be restrained on anything in our real life, and we have to assume lore taking full precedence over canonicity. This means things like range or time would not have an effect. If the deities in this case fully committed, then Quinella would likely die instantly if she saw the artifacts even kilometers away. Artifacts as extensions of gods have no issue of accomplishing what ever you are saying impossible for Dovahkiin.

Arguing someone's magic deflecting a body extension of 1-C being sounds really NLF. Another image for you to conceptualize is the fight with Alduin, which the profile described immeasurable as it should be in lore while in-game it is a crappy sword-swinging battle. The ways that Dovahkiin uses artifacts in lore entire different on how you observed in gameplay. This is an aspect that you have to assume.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Every single thing you can do is Canon.

 

[Ywlrvl]

I don't see forcefield manipulation on her profile

It's right next to poison negation.

But I only see barriers preventing "physical weapons" not energy-based attack. There is no indication of 8-A forcefield in your claim.

The metal barrier is a passive forcefield that blocks physical weapons, yes.

Again, I am not quite convinced about Sacred Arts. The description does not apply to those attacks that ignore conventional durability or laws of physics.

Quinella has Sacred Arts that can "Blow away the target's soul", transmutate matter, manipulate matter, flash freeze, and create areas that nullify the usage of Sacred Arts.

 

[KongKing23]

I don't see forcefield manipulation on her profile

It's right next to poison negation.

But I only see barriers preventing "physical weapons" not energy-based attack. There is no indication of 8-A forcefield in your claim.

The metal barrier is a passive forcefield that blocks physical weapons, yes.

Again, I am not quite convinced about Sacred Arts. The description does not apply to those attacks that ignore conventional durability or laws of physics.

Quinella has Sacred Arts that can "Blow away the target's soul", transmutate matter, manipulate matter, flash freeze, and create areas that nullify the usage of Sacred Arts.

> Barrier Creation =/= Forcefield. It is similar in the name, but I don't care much about her stuff since it can only block physical attacks.

> Not energy-based attack. She never demonstrated to ever deflect or tank attack looking like this or even this . My argument lies on things that defied conventional understandings.

> Not much different from "Reality and Other Falsehoods" book that described mook mages in TES doing the similar thing at the cost of accepting you are in a dream. Thus, all TES magical techniques were described as "reality warping". The Oakflesh spell in Skyrim, for example, was the command of manipulating reality to conform your surrounding particles into literally oak/tree. Dovahkiin is capable of doing in all of these before completing main quests, which Matthew said everything you did can be canon.

 

[Ywlrvl]

Still a passive forcefield. She might be able to create barriers, but she still has a passive forcefield around her.

Yes, it only blocks physical (metal) objects/attacks. Case closed. I never said it blocked anything other than that.

I'm not arguing anything here because I really don't know much about Elder Scrolls to argue anything. I'm simply clarifying things.

 

[Ywlrvl]

> Not energy-based attack. She never demonstrated to ever deflect or tank attack looking like this . My argument lies on things that defied conventional understandings.

Surviving being showered with lightning bolts, surviving a fall of 600 meters thrice, being incinerated twice, can tank explosions that can blow Kirito away, and being superior to people like Alice who can intercept lightning.

Tell me if you want scans. I'm too lazy to find them right now.

 

[Keeweed]

I have stated that the legendary artifacts defied conventional laws and probably logic themselves. The metaphysical applications based on lore would not be restrained on anything in our real life, and we have to assume lore taking full precedence over canonicity. This means things like range or time would not have an effect. If the deities in this case fully committed, then Quinella would likely die instantly if she saw the artifacts even kilometers away. Artifacts as extensions of gods have no issue of accomplishing what ever you are saying impossible for Dovahkiin.

Where did you get any of that from. Are you arguing that Mehrunes Razor ignores distance and time, I feel like that should be easy to disprove, but I'm completely speechless even thinking of how anyone could ever come to that conclusion. That's not even how the artifacts work, if she died from looking at them from kilometers away that means everyone in Skyrim would instantly die as soon as the Daedric Princes handed their artifacts to the Dragonborn, but that didn't happen. I mean maybe he actually has to use it to kill, but Quinella literally kills with a sigh or a word at worst, which is way faster than pulling out a weapons (especially when he can't even see her while she can presumably see him). You're talking about NLF, how about your claims that a High 8-C weapon being immeasurable, having infinite, or at least kilometers, distance/range, and kill without even being pulled out because "Quinella would likely die instantly if she saw the artifacts even kilometers away". I'll like to see some scans for that shit because that is thousands of times more untrustworthy than law manipulation moving a weapon a few feet to the side or a 8-A shield or durability blocking a High 8-C attack. (Once again sorry if I'm coming off as rude but I've seen plenty of times when you downplay opponents (example: saying Morgoth died to a spider, like as that has anything to do with anything) and wank the Elder Scrolls (example: Ariel's bow is low 1-C, High 1-B, or 1-A or something else way higher than it is). (And yeah I low ball the Elder Scrolls (example: believing the Daedric artifacts to be non canon due something delta said on that thread I posted earlier rather than what Matthew was trying to explain (my bad)) a lot but that's because I don't want to be like the people who think Pelinal has "tier 0 hax" or the high 8-C Dragonborn has immeasurable speed weapons, and infinite, or at least multiple kilometers, ranged nigh passive death hax)).

 

[KongKing23]

> First, I argued that artifacts are extensions of godly beings. I assumed. Assumed!! If lore and metaphysics take precedence over, then these artifacts as bodily extensions have no trouble of what I claimed to do. It is an assumption that certainly works based on how Matt says lore is canon over gameplay. Again, I was offering a perspective not an argument.

> Under this perspective, it is logical to rationalize things you accused me of wank like immeasurable speed or infinite range. The artifacts are bodies of 1-C beings, and there's absolutely no issues if gods can manifest their powers through artifacts. This is much worse since the battle isn't on Nirn, so the lack of Mundus Barrier or anything similar will allow gods to take full power.

> I purely took these things from Matthew profiles and source threads. You can look back again.

> You are the one firstly demonstrated the most heretical bias of stripping abilities of a character from what they already had in the profile. It's blatantly dishonest. I argued based on what it's on the profile, but you use your head canon to strip Wabbajack from Dovahkiin until Matthew intervened. However, I don't want to spend times dissing each other since I merely presented a scenario capable on the given conditions.

 

[KongKing23]

Surviving being showered with lightning bolts, surviving a fall of 600 meters thrice, being incinerated twice, can tank explosions that can blow Kirito away, and being superior to people like Alice who can intercept lightning.

Tell me if you want scans. I'm too lazy to find them right now.

I will trust you since I can find all of these on the profile. However, I haven't seen her edge against atomizing magic or illusion magic. You can find evidences on what I am claiming in the ESO trailer, Art of Trial Magic and Incident at Necrom.

 

[Keeweed]

They aren't complete low 1-C bodies though, they are small fractions or pieces of them. Mehrunes Razor is a dagger with death hax, it isn't an metaphysical infinite plane that passively kills everything instantly. Also you need proof that the Daedric artifacts are in his High 8-C key, saying that the keys only applies to the main quest when side quest have High 6-A and low 2-C characters. Why would the rueful axe be high 8-C when it physically stabs to death Barbas, a low 2-C I need lore evidence for them to be high 8-C. Not this 'they're pieces of low 1-C thus they can kill "Quinella would likely die instantly if she saw the artifacts even kilometers away". when they have never done this even with some of the more powerful artifacts. Umbra and Ariel's bow, probably, but I have seen no reason any of these artifacts should be High 8-c nor should they have nigh passive death hax. (Also if your referring to the op giving the Dragonborn everything, that's against the rules and this match can't be added)