Joseph Joestar vs Big Boss

[ProfessorLord]

Even if he didn't train that much, his body is at least comparable to Dio when he became a vampire. Also, who agreed upon it? You and a few Jojo fans? Or was it an actual approved CRT, because again, as of right now Straizo is an 8-B character who's been riddled with bullets. Show me the thread.

(Not all characters in Jojo are buff, Speedwagon isn't. It's because the buff ones are meant to be specifically strong.)

It wasn't mentioned to be on par with a bullet, it was mentioned as a lethal alternative to Ratt, whom is a literal Rat. If CD launched the assault rifle alternative, I have no doubt it would go through Kira.

The ACTUAL firepower of the guns is still debatable, because it's literally hundreds of the small ass bullets going through the walls, not necessarily an individual one. And the real reason we don't use bullets of that size is because although they can punch into an individuals hand (as shown with Josuke) the smaller an object is, the faster it loses shape, even if there is a shit ton of energy behind it. They'll be deformed and lose all their momentum before they can reach internal organs and do meaningful damage. Real world reasoning.

So yes, Bad Company can't pierce an 8-B character because it is using an irrationally small caliber.

 

[ProfessorLord]

User blog:Alakabamm/Durability Required to be Completely BulletproofAnd this takes the biggest caliber round in the world, and is needed City block to be completely bulletproof, so I am voting in Joseph via this and J-Man reasons

Then clearly there is one of two things going on here:

A) Joseph is not city-block since stronger or comparable characters (Dio, Straizo) have been hurt and damaged by bullets before. (I don't agree, I think they are, if not very close.)

B) Joseph and company has 8-B durability against conventional striking attacks such as punches and kicks, but not against piercing attacks such as bullets and blades.

Because even with this calc, no 8-B character in Jojo has displayed the ability to take a bullet unharmed, even the higher-end vampires. Therefore it would be wrong to assume Joseph whom is much weaker than the vampires to somehow be bulletproof.

I'd also like to add that Boss's bullets are still 8-C according to admin, so the attack potency is still enough to get through this City Block bulletproof cap.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

When he became a vampire? Yeah. Then Dio trained and tested out powers and got city block. While originally he was only room or small building. Hence why key one jonathan only had building durability despite being punched and kicked by fresh dio.

The buff.point? What are ta even talking about?

It was though. While not as strong the ball bearings were an effective method. And could pierce and dig out a chunk of a post. Excluding the fact the projectle on kira had a pointed tip and was aimed (after josuke had experience with aiming an actual bullet and factoring in wind resistance). The projectile on the way back couldnt even go through his chest.


What? Cut the shit. Ya can clearly see the holes. Each hole one bullet. One bullet can puerce a brick wall. And go cleanly through steel. And real world reasoning on a stand? The bullets also don't lose shape as the bullets still penetrated a wall and kept going far after without losing velocity or any of that shit. Shape? Well considering the bullets kept the shape and still pierced walls after being punched and deflected from CD. The caliber in question can still oenetrate brick and steel on panel. Do the size is moot of the bullets have feats. Count the holes. One hole would be one bullet.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

>Because even with this calc, no 8-B character in Jojo has displayed the ability to take a bullet unharmed, even the higher-end vampires. Therefore it would be wrong to assume Joseph whom is much weaker than the vampires to somehow be bulletproof.

Gyro? King crimson? Litterally josuke. Stone free? White? (Also all the ones mentioned have less durability over dio except maybe crimson).

 

[ProfessorLord]

Still haven't linked me this supposed CRT of Straizo being building level and not 8-B, I'm going to go ahead and assume it doesn't exist until you show me otherwise. This whole "Dio trained, Straizo didn't therefore they aren't equal vampires" thing is all head-canon. Dio was legit toying with Jonathan, of course the kick isn't going to be City Block level, that would kill him, and that's why it's only building durability.

The buff point was meant to illustrate that physically, Straizo and Dio look very much the same and shouldn't have drastically different strengths, there is no reason for them to.

Digging a chunk out of a post =/= punching a hole through someone. The pointed tip is only part of why bullets are so effective, the entire shape is the full reason. Therefore, even if the projectile CD launched at Kira had a pointed tip, it is still not as aerodynamic as a bullet.

Yes, I can see the holes, but my point is it's not 1 bullet that made a single hole, it's the continious volley of bullets from a single soldiers gun that would eventually punch through the wall and form what seems to be a hole. They are using assault rifles, after all. Maybe the bullets do lose shape, maybe not, but either way there is still to much we don't EXACTLY know about Bad Company to treat it as a regular gun. We don't know the exact caliber, we don't know the energy the guns are outputting, we don't know the rate of fire, we don't know if the bullets are even actual bullets or just pseudo-bullets. If you want to calculate this, fine by me, but as of now it's too vague to use as a feat. That was my entire point.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Hmm. Also apparently stand bullets arent even effected by things for example air pressure and resistance. Also the ratt only inflicted flesh wounds on jotaro also (despite the acid taking effects moments later).

The ratt stand put holes in a rock meaning that it does have penetration

power.

 

[ProfessorLord]

>Because even with this calc, no 8-B character in Jojo has displayed the ability to take a bullet unharmed, even the higher-end vampires. Therefore it would be wrong to assume Joseph whom is much weaker than the vampires to somehow be bulletproof.
Gyro? King crimson? Litterally josuke. Stone free? White? (Also all the ones mentioned have less durability over dio except maybe crimson).

All also have logical explanations as to why they can "deflect" (not straight up, no stand, absorb the bullet) the bullets, King Crimson is WAY more durable and vastly stronger than the user, CD, SP, and SF are all strong and fast enough to punch bullets away. Star Platinum and Crazy Diamond can literally just slap them away, they are armored.

Straizo and Dio have no logical defense against bullets, and thus they can be harmed by them, even if they are 8-B, unlike all the other examples I had named.

I will admit I haven't read SBR yet, so I can't confirm why Gyro has taken a bullet unharmed, though I'm positive it's because of more spin/stand shenanigans, and not him straight up being bulletproof.

 

[ProfessorLord]

Hmm. Also apparently stand bullets arent even effected by things for example air pressure and resistance. Also the ratt only inflicted flesh wounds on jotaro also (despite the acid taking effects moments later).
The ratt stand put holes in a rock meaning that it does have penetration power.

Going to assume you agree with me that Bad Company has too many unknowns to accurately be treated as a bullet that can be calculated?

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

He crushed his arms and tried killing Jonathan. The hell are ya on? And fresh vampires are only wall to room according to araki. Also look up jojo https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/784596?useskin=oasis the crt within question would be one of the three of those ones.

The buff point is trash. Gyro and giorno look the same. Yet giorno is far below gyro.

Ya do realize wood has a higher resistance than flesh? Pointed tip. Launched at a higher speed than a normal bullet(meaning losing velocity wouldn't effect much).

What the hell are you talking? One hole obviously one bullet? We can vusually still see the bullet streak flying past the hole. And its potrayed that way in the anime. The bullets act like bullets. Have the same if not far higher velocity and fire rate. Can penetrate steel and brick walls bare minimum. Arent effect by air pressure and aur resustance because of stand magic. Of course the bullets arent real bullets. The bullets are a stand but so was strength or plenty of other material stands that act exactly like the object the stand is potraying minus a few things like complete control. Its not vague its obvious and glaringly so.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Going to assume you agree with me that Bad Company has too many unknowns to accurately be treated as a bullet that can be calculated?

No. To be honest im honestly astounded ypure even attempting to handwave such obvious showings. Almost everything about bad company had feats or shown on panel. Youre honestly just handwaving and ignoring what is shown.

 

[LordNephalem]

My vote goes for Joseph.

Also, Tarkus skin was so rough that they tried to kill him using axes and they just broke up by hitting his neck. That happened when he was a human, he wasn't even a zombie yet. So the "JoJo characters can take damage from regular bullets and blades" is kinda flawed

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Honestly me and Lord are correct. Araki a hack though and inconsistent. Although as far as the wiki and the orofile aware or concerned the JoJo 8-B characters are bullet proof or at least only miniscule damage.

 

[ProfessorLord]

I've seen the 60 soldiers shoot and blow through the door, the walls, his hand, etc. But how do we know that they are still as powerful as regular bullets? How do we know they even function as regular bullets and not laser beams? I can tell you how we could figure out accurately, and determine if they are.

We would need to first know whether or not they ARE real bullets. Are they using real, small pieces of ammunition, or are they using pseduo-bullets such as laser beams? Are the bullets affected by deformation, like real bullets are?

What is the caliber of the projectiles they are firing?

What is their rate of fire? A standard M16 (which looks like the gun in their hands) is 700―950 rounds/min. Do they have the same rate of fire despite being vastly smaller?

Are their bullets affected by air pressure and resistance? Maybe whether or not they are varies from stand to stand.

These are just the ones I've came up with from the top of my head. You would need to find this information and use it to calculate the attack potency, which is another challenge in itself, are we calculating the potency of one projectile, or the entire squad? Over what length of time?

All this needs to be done before assuming Josuke is tanking hundreds of bullets, because they are clearly not normal bullets.

 

[RapidMotorcycle19]

STAR PLATINUM THE WORLD OVER HEAVEN ACT 4 ULTIMATE REQUIEM BITES THE DUST

 

[ProfessorLord]

Honestly me and Lord are correct. Araki a hack though and inconsistent.
Although as far as the wiki and the orofile aware or concerned the JoJo 8-B characters are bullet proof or at least only miniscule damage.

Literally just told you Straizo got shot up by bullets and he is a high-end 8-B Jojo character. If you want to argue that he isn't, show me the supposed CRT. I'm not seeing anything that says Straizo is now building level. I don't see anything saying HP is higher than 10-C. Joseph would not be bulletproof.

Big Boss is using 8-C bullets as Promestein had said earlier, therefore this 8-C bulletproof cap doesn't take that into account, though I might be misinterpreting that just a tad.

Tarkus is clearly an exception, he would physically overpower most vampires in his zombie form. Just because one character has resistance to slashing attacks (because of his giant ass neck) doesn't mean all JJBA characters are now resistant to piercing attacks.

 

[LordNephalem]

Didn't Jonathan easily physically overpowered Tarkus after receiving Zeppeli's Hamon? He is definitely not as strong as most vampires.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

I did lord. Read the linked threads.

Probably are. Are his bullets 8-C or are the bullets 8-C for harming an 8-C.

Yeah no. Multiple examples exists ya cant handwave the majority or ones that contradict ya with an actual reason or explanation (plus him having a large neck wouldn't do that). And Joseph>Tarkus anyway.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Why? Because why the hell would that be a laser? Occams razer exist. And for the wall and steel ? Ya can see the holes and the bullet streak on the one panel. Bad company fires from within the building at josuke and the bullets go and almost hit him outside the building.

Obviously smaller ammo. But clearly still packs the power going from fears and visual evidence. Even the bullets being effected by deformation wouldn't matter. The bullets have feats of cleany going through walls and steel on multiple occasions through out vol 3.

Rate of fire? Honestly probably faster than normal as the bullets blitz okuyasu. Bare minimum the actual speed of the actual gun.

No. The bullets arent effected because of the bullets being a stand. Obviously not a unique property as rhe fact was attributed from the nature of a stand.

Calculate? Ya do realize that nothing needs to be calculated because we can clearly see that one bullet had the ap of puercing a wall. Like an actual bullet.

Joseph could be 10&C and tank hundreds of bullets using hamon barriers or shielding. Also ya do realize joseph can fire back yeah? He can make a string of spaghetti more lethal than a knife. Or he can use hamon on the ground and fry boss maybe even hamon or yse hp as a sneak attack. Hp can go through and hide through shit. On the note of flesh wounds. Emerald splash (high velocity projectile with pointed tip that can puncture steel not effected by air pressure or any natural imoedement except direct contact of a durable substance) had only done minor damage on a casual dio.

 

[ProfessorLord]

Yes, but if you ask J-Man, he'll insist it's because of his rage, not the hamon.

He easily lifts a massive portion of land that Jonathan was standing on from underneath him, that clearly falls in line with the strength feats we've seen from vampires. Even if he isn't EXACTLY on their strength level, he is comparable to a fair degree.

And according to the JoJo revision thread that was linked to me, Joseph is apparently supposed to be at Large Building level? Why is his profile not updated to reflect this then? Outdated, maybe? If it is true, then this debate about whether or not Joseph is bulletproof is clearly over.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Actually if ya ask arigamy. So cut the shit Lord and stop talking like ta have any clue what youre insinuating.

And? How many vampires do we see actually lift a thing? One? Dio? Lifting a thing above what tarkys did? Casually? And fly with it?

Then the upgrade happened the thread is still right lord so cut the sematics because one completely unrelated thing was changed and upgraded would have no effect on the scaling from straizo.

 

[Torlikoff]

Calm down man, no need to insult him.

 

[ProfessorLord]

You cannot use "occams razer" on stands, they are an irrational concept. You can, however, make assumptions for the purpose of calculation, that's cool.

How much smaller is the ammo then? Obviously smaller isn't an answer.

Okay, so if it is faster, how much faster? If not, bare minimum like you said.

Sure, we'll say the bullets aren't affected by wind pressure, another fine assumption to make.

What's the firepower behind the gun? How would you begin to find that?

You don't know if ONE bullet is wall level, or if MULTIPLE bullets are wall level. Multiple bullets can be shot in a single place and through one hole, you know. This "one hole one bullet" argument is an unfair assumption, because you haven't done the previous calculations to prove it.

Yes, Joseph can tank Boss's bullets through hamon hair shield, but he can only do so for so long before he exhausts his hamon, like he did in part 2. Especially more so since he hasn't done hamon in a long time. There's nothing stopping boss from rolling a stun-grenade towards Joseph, circumventing his shield. He's never used hamon on the ground to fry an enemy, especially since SBA assumptions dictate that the fight starts outside of Boss's gun range, and so he'd literally have to be standing next to him for that to work. Sure HP can be used secretly, that's cool, but how would he incorporate it in a fight?

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

what? If I insulted him then yeah my bad although dont think that happened.

 

[ProfessorLord]

I checked the linked threads, the latest one has Joseph listed as Large Building level scaling from Kars bone blades. So why are we still arguing? It's a mismatch.

The point keeps going over your head so I'll drop the whole Tarkus argument thing, especially since there is still a difference between a piercing/slashing attack. (Slashing is still over a larger surface area, which would explain why Tarkus's neck took so long to cut through.)

I don't understand a lot of what you're trying to say, it's almost like keyboard scribbling. Can you please try to edit a little bit of what you say for clarity purpose?

Calm down man, no need to insult him.

I don't feel insulted, and I don't feel the need to be babied either. I'll let people know when words actually start to hurt me.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Yeah can though? Acts like a gun. Looks like a gun. Fires bullets. Obviously not a laser holy shit.

How big was the hole? There ya go.

Supersonic+ or mftl+.

The power? The fact that the bullets punctured a brick and steel? No need for a calculation as that is bare minimum what normal bullets can do and bad company replicated the feat

Unfair? Man. Ya litterally see that on panel. Ya can see the path of the bullet. That is also potrayed that way in the anime and even the live action . Making an assumption? No im claimg what had been explicitly shown on panel.

Hamon hair shield. Or grass. Or anything honestly. Exhausts his hamon? That didnt happen. Santana exhausted his ammo. Also checked. Joseph only said he didnt use hamon for awhile. Not that he got rusty . Also a stun grenade? Dude do ya honestly think Joseph would just stand there and let big boss do half the shit youre proclaiming? No. Joseph could do plenty of shit. Even a thing as low end as laying a piece of string down and catching boss in a rope trick. Or make his way to big boss and ohko him or run away while deflecting bullets as ta still on that and lay traps or think of a plan. And incorporating how? Probably the way he does when fighting in eoh or the capcom jojo game cant honestly say when had one two fights where hp could be used and the one opponent couldnt have taken much damage (actually hp crushed empress meaning that a feat) and mariah played away.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Have ya read all three? Also cut the shit Lord. The large building feat was replaced with a 8-B feat. That somehow makes the rest of the thread outdated? No.

Joseph deflected a knife once with hamon if ya wanna go that route that badly man.

As for typing on a keyboard? On mobile and my right side us a tad bit screwed from an injury a few months ago. Making typing a little hard.

 

[ProfessorLord]

You don't know if it's the power of ONE bullet, or the power of MANY bullets side by side/in succession. You won't know that unless you perform a calculation. Scaling from puncturing steel would normally work if you knew for a fact that one bullet was doing the work, but no, its hundreds of rounds working together, over an unknown length of time.

It's supersonic/mtfl, how am I supposed to know if that's one bullet or many together? You said it yourself, the rate of fire is probably higher. You know damn well how this calc game works, you can't use the anime or live action as they aren't primary canon.

Yes, hamon grass shield, hamon hair shield, nice, but he'll still exhaust his hamon like he did when trying to fight the mob of vampires before Speedwagon and Stroheim arrived to bail his ass. And yes, it's about splitting Joseph's attention, is he going to deal with Boss's incoming onslaught of bullets by constantly applying hamon to the hairs/grass/etc, or is he going to deal with the live grenade 8ft away from him? Laying a rope? Boss isn't a ******, he's just going to focus killing Joseph like every MGS villain, by abusing his weaponry, aka, from a distance. Joseph can't run away AND apply his hamon trick.

Big Boss wins via better arsenal and military experience, tbh.

 

[ProfessorLord]

Yes I've read the latest and all three threads, it says:

Joseph remains at Large Building level (Outside of Straizo and Santana battles, he had physically broken through Kars' bone blade. Hamon did not appear to aid him in cutting through until after it was cut off. Those who scale to him also benefit from this.)

9-A is small building level, 8-C is building level, 8-B is city block level. Therefore, Joseph is 8-C+, and not 8-B, as his profile incorrectly states. I don't see the 8-B feat that replaces his 8-C+ feat, so that means he is not bulletproof whatsoever.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Lord. While hundreds are fired only one bullet is actually needed to perform the feat. That is why the bullet aftermath and in a grid pattern.

Actually ya can use anime if the feat us potrayed the same or the feat adds additional explanation. (Also araki overviewed and all).

Dude. Ya best be having a hape. He exhausted his hamon after a day of no rest fighting wham then kars then fighting a dozen vampires and still had hamon although not enough for a few hundred vampires on all front and at once together. And neither was esidisi who is actually more intelligent than big boss and yet he fell for a rope trick. And he can though? Hes not immobile when using hamon mate.

Military experience? If ya wanna go the route if experience Joseph has fought a far more wider selection of varied opponents through out his life ranging from pillar men to even logia dogs with sand manipulation. Plus Joseph has way more versatility and ways that would out big boss on his ass or are ya forgetting all the ways hamon can be used and especially with the extended range of purple ?

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Yes I've read the latest and all three threads, it says:

Joseph remains at Large Building level (Outside of Straizo and Santana battles, he had physically broken through Kars' bone blade. Hamon did not appear to aid him in cutting through until after it was cut off. Those who scale to him also benefit from this.)

9-A is small building level, 8-C is building level, 8-B is city block level. Therefore, Joseph is 8-C+, and not 8-B, as his profile incorrectly states. I don't see the 8-B feat that replaces his 8-C+ feat, so that means he is not bulletproof whatsoever.

Are? Are ya ******* kidding me? You can't be actually honestly serious.

Ya clearly didnt read the thread. Try the second one. And the 8-B was calculated after the thread so cut the shit because now youre very clearly doing that on purpose. The rest of the thread and discussions are still valid. An upgrade for characters that scale off peak dio wont effect that and straizo was discussed not to scale off dio.

 

[RapidMotorcycle19]

Maybe Part 2 Joseph is 8-C but Part 3 Joseph is 8-B?

 

[ProfessorLord]

You're still arguing this? You missed the entire point, you don't KNOW if one bullet is needed to perform the feat, it looks like one bullet, but it could also look like many bullets in succession punching through the wall. If you calculate how strong it is, then you can say for certain whether or not a single bullet can punch through the wall.

I can concede on the hamon exhaustion point, but that still doesn't let him win against Boss. Splitting his attention between his assault rifle and a grenade should be a victory for Boss, because he can't apply hamon to his hair wall and get rid of the grenade at the same time. Even a molotov cocktail will slip through the small cracks in his hamon wall and douse Joseph in flames. Boss is also intelligent when it comes to setting up traps, he has blow up body doubles allowing for ambush attacks, he has camoflauge, and cardboard boxes for a more modern enviornment.

Military Experience > Pillar Men Experience. Joseph can't apply anything he learned against the Pillar Men against Boss, because it doesn't apply to him. Except for maybe the hamon hair trick, but that still has limitations. (Needs to constantly have a supply of grass/hair, need to constantly apply hamon, etc.)

No, you can't use anime for additional explanation, otherwise Jotaro and DIO would both be able to accumulate damage in stopped time, because we see Jotaro do it to Kira in the anime. We know this is not the case.

The discussions in the end of the thread are valid until we see this:

The following have been stated and concluded for these revisions (UPDATED AND FINALIZED):

And then it doesn't matter what the **** you say, it's not going to be added to the thread. The finalized update for the latest revision thread clearly says Joseph Large Building Level, so his profile was incorrectly edited.

 

[ProfessorLord]

Maybe Part 2 Joseph is 8-C but Part 3 Joseph is 8-B?

No, I've searched for the word "Joseph" and even "City" in the thread as well as going through it manually, I don't see one instance of either Part 2 or Part 3 Joseph having an 8-B feat to their name. Both of them scale from Kars bone-blade feat, according to their latest revision, which should be an 8-C+ feat.

 

[ProfessorLord]

I'd like to summarize my arguments as to why Joseph cannot win against Big Boss, I think you should do the same.

- Big Boss has Joseph beat in CQC. While Joseph may be very much stronger than Boss, Boss is way more intelligent and adept at a form of combat that revolves around the premise of disabling stronger opponents. Joseph cannot be immune to CQC, even if he is stronger, because grappling largely ignores your opponents strength, under the premise that you can effectively manipulate their weight. Joseph weighs 250-300lbs max, a weight Boss is easily able to manhandle. Any punch thrown by Joseph results in a side-step hip toss from Boss, followed up with a bullet to the head. Speed and reaction speed are equalized here, too.

"Hamon KOs on contact."

The only instances of hamon being used to KO was when young Joseph literally charged an overdrive to the sides of a pilots head, and when Ceaser consistently supplied hamon to Mark's heart. Joseph would need to replicate one of the two to achieve a KO through hamon.

- Big Boss has Joseph beat in arsenal. His standard gear includes assault rifles, pistols, body armor, grenades, etc. Joseph has Hermit Purple, and while it can be more useful, it really depends on the situation. SBA assumes we start just outside of Boss's gun range, so as they both approach each other, Boss gets first opportunity to kill, as the range of Hermit Purple is maybe a dozen meters. This immediately forces Joseph to run away into a more hectic enviornment, though it won't help him, Big Boss has satelite imaging technology and can identify and mark targets just by getting a close enough look at them. So no matter where Joseph runs away too, Boss can still see him. Hermit Purple is also 10-A/listed as 10-C, so even if he were to use it on Boss, it's not strong enough to effectively bind him, he'll have enough strength to at LEAST shoot his gun from his side.

- Despite what you might think, Joseph is not bulletproof just because he is 8-B. (And latest revision has his highest durability feat being 8-C) 8-B characters like Spiderman, Deadpool, and Captain America get shot all the time. Hell, even Dio Brando and Straizo who are both listed as 8-B have been shot before. Joseph can only withstand a bullet through his hamon hair trick, which requires a blade of hair/grass to be thrown up in front of him and have a consistent source of hamon be applied to it. This allows Boss to exploit his trick with grenades, splitting his attention and disabling his hamon shield. Even a molotov should leak through the small cracks and burn Joseph alive.

"But Dio was a fresh vampire and not as strong, and Straizo isn't as strong as Dio."

Headcanon. We don't see vampires being weak because they are fresh, they are weak because they are toying around. Straizo isn't weaker because he didn't explore his powers like Dio did, that just means he isn't aware of his strengths.

Overall, whatever advantages Joseph does have have either been equalized or are largely useless against Boss. That's why Boss would 100% win this.

 

[CursedGentleman]

You do realize that he can just zoom punch Old Boss, right? like, is not like Old Boss will suddenly be prepared to that, because aint isnt batman.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

>Big Boss beats Joseph in CQC

>Only 8-C physically

Big Boss is only 8-B with weapons, he is ONLY harming Joseph with weapons

>Blade Bone breaking is an 8-C feat

No, that's just used for scaling, do you really want someone to spell out the 8-B scaling for you?

Dio tanks 8-B explosion as a head, Kars is a Pillar Man, Pillar Men > Vampires, Joseph broke through Kars' blade

There you go

 

[Torlikoff]

Do you vote for Joseph?

 

[ProfessorLord]

I disagree a little with your entire Kars blade logic but for this thread I will concede, messy enough as is.

8-B strength or not, Joseph is getting manhandled in CQC. Joseph doesn't weigh 100 tons, so no reason for him to be immune to it. It may not hurt him, but it means Joseph is never getting a punch or kick on him. Id like to point out Boss is so proficient he does it to crowds of trained soldiers, and comes out unharmed.

Can agree on harming Joseph with weapons.

Zoom punch isn't hitting Boss lmao. He's already an expert at sidestepping, which works against zoom punch as well, the extra reach doesn't benefit Joseph at all. All punches thrown will easily be seen coming, he'll just watch Josephs shoulders, something pro fighters do.

 

[CursedGentleman]

Why do you think that Old Boss would suddenly know about Zoom Punch and suddenly sidestep?

While speed is equalized, the reaction of the characters still count, so the same could be said about Joseph looking at Old Boss trying to hit him as well.

 

[ProfessorLord]

Because zoom punch functions the same as a regular punch, just with added range. Big Boss just watches his shoulders and sidestep like he would a normal punch, even if he doesn't know it's a zoom punch.

Yes, Joseph could so the same for Big Boss throwing a punch or any attack really, assuming he is knowledgeable on how to do so. Regardless Boss wins in CQC based on experience, he's demonstrated martial arts feats far more (and more impressive) than Joseph, whose martial arts we've seen go as far as a kick or two. (Except in the intro, lol.)

And realistically, CQC incorporates handguns as well, so he'll probably follow a throw on Joseph up with a magazine to his face.