JUJUTSU KAISEN SPEED DOWNGRADE CONT.

[KingTempest]

fair enough i guess but why is this even a point? it looks like he didn't even dodge the explosion or anything impressive

Because they're saying he did

Yes, the detonation is the beginning of any explosion. Therefore if Megumi was still as the detonation was occurring...

The detonation starting to happen does not mean the detonation happened.
A grenade doesn't need to blow up for its detonation to start happening, the small moment before the actual explosion is this instance.

The teeth didn't start to explode yet. Simple.

No it's not. It's literally the author's indication of detonation beginning. We see the same thing in the eyeball panel where you can see the eye ball falling without the lines, then we see the lines and the eyeball starting to deform indicating detonation.

You keep saying we see the same thing in the eyeball panel.
We see the eyeball explode.
We see them not.

Yes, I know what the words say. What I am saying is that Megumi was able to move the several meters before the explosion reached him.

Given that we know the detonation occurred as he was standing still, I am taking the more logical approach to these feat. If we take the statement in conjunction with what happened then Megumi is crazily faster than the explosion, which I don't believe is the case.

You have a serious issue of going against the manga except when it gives good results.

When the manga says he aimdodged, then he aimdodged.

Shit, how would they have seen Megumi's movements when the explosion would've covered their line of sight?
He moved before it.
They said he moved before it.

So basically because Gege didn't put the Fwwsh you think we can ignore the lines that blatantly indicate the explosion happened?

So I guess we're gonna ignore this scan to with the lines but no fwssh effect or projected light?

WE CLEARLY see it exploding here. Like we see it MID EXPLOSION.

What in the false equivalence?

 

[Dr._whiteee]

YEAH HE DIDNT DODGE. But dr white wants to ignore that.

Yes he did. Megumi didn't dodge the first one because it was literally outside of a window and he had no knowledge on the technique.

In the second panel he's able to lift the girl, dart toward a room, open the door, and get himself and her inside before the explosion of this size engulfs.

Read.

 

[KingTempest]

Yes he did. Megumi didn't dodge the first one because it was literally outside of a window and he had no knowledge on the technique.

In the second panel he's able to lift the girl, dart toward a room, open the door, and get himself and her inside before the explosion of this size engulfs.

Read.

You keep saying read.

They said he got in the room before the boom.

You, read. He aimdodged it

 

[Dr._whiteee]

You keep saying read.

They said he got in the room before the boom.

You, read. He aimdodged it

Then he was able to outrace the detonation itself. Better feat. Thanks.

 

[Arkenis]

Here Megumi gets caught in the explosion, this is not a feat of speed. Even if you were to argue "Megumi turned his body", ok? So what? The distance it covered versus Megumi turning his torso to an unknown degree is irrevelant and offers nothing impressive. It's actually an anti-feat for the speed scaling you are arguing for.

So basically because Gege didn't put the Fwwsh you think we can ignore the lines that blatantly indicate the explosion happened?

So I guess we're gonna ignore this scan to with the lines but no fwssh effect or projected light?

Please read, The fwash is a consistent thing that he shows time and time again, this one instance where he doesn't do it means it's not happening. How difficult is that?

 

[KingTempest]

Then he was able to outrace the detonation itself. Better feat. Thanks.

Dude didn't outrace anything. Nothing happened until he was in the room

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Responding to the rest later.

Here Megumi gets caught in the explosion, this is not a feat of speed. Even if you were to argue "Megumi turned his body", ok? So what? The distance it covered versus Megumi turning his torso to an unknown degree is irrevelant and offers nothing impressive. It's actually an anti-feat for the speed scaling you are arguing for.

Yes, that is the feat where Megumi is caught off guard. Hence it doesn't ******* count against him. Which is proven by him outpacing the following explosion.

Please read, The fwash is a consistent thing that he shows time and time again, this one instance where he doesn't do it means it's not happening. How difficult is that?

No it doesn't. That scene is literally the only explosion we see with those effects. The only consistent effect across all of the instances is the wishy lines indicating explosion. Read.

 

[Damage3245]

Then he was able to outrace the detonation itself. Better feat. Thanks.

Is there any evidence that he didn't start moving until after the explosion began?

 

[Cyberblader90]

if megumi can outpace the blast
the tooth later shouldnt have been a threat
wouldnt need saving from takaba

also

Absolutely aim dodge, reggie did the same thing

 

[Chariot190]

Here Megumi gets caught in the explosion, this is not a feat of speed. Even if you were to argue "Megumi turned his body", ok? So what? The distance it covered versus Megumi turning his torso to an unknown degree is irrevelant and offers nothing impressive. It's actually an anti-feat for the speed scaling you are arguing for.

Actually, that should be calculatable, even just assuming he shifted his body like 90 degrees in the time it took the explosion to go from the eye to where we see it past him would get an ok result I̵t̵'̵d̵ ̵b̵e̵ ̵l̵i̵k̵e̵ ̵s̵u̵p̵e̵r̵s̵o̵n̵i̵c̵

 

[Arkenis]

Yes, that is the feat where Megumi is caught off guard. Hence it doesn't ******* count against him. Which is proven by him outpacing the following explosion.

He is looking at the eye . You're joking bro.

 

[Arkenis]

Actually, that should be calculatable, even just assuming he shifted his body like 90 degrees in the time it took the explosion to go from the eye to where we see it past him would get an ok result I̵t̵'̵d̵ ̵b̵e̵ ̵l̵i̵k̵e̵ ̵s̵u̵p̵e̵r̵s̵o̵n̵i̵c̵

yeah an assumption... something most of these calcs continue to rely on even though the end result always goes against the established speed scaling. I'm all for calcs but when they start going against the established speed for the verse then there's something wrong.

 

[KingTempest]

No it doesn't. That scene is literally the only explosion we see with those effects. The only consistent effect across all of the instances is the wishy lines indicating explosion. Read.

The Fwash????? It happens over and over.

The fwash is the proof of the detonation starting.

No fwash, no boom

 

[Cyberblader90]

even if was off guard, my prior points stands, he needed takaba for the tooth, and he was confirmed to have done the same thing reggie did to avoid the blast. Reggie even says 'woah" to the first blast while crouching and holding his ears. These guys are not "outpacing" explosions

 

[Chariot190]

yeah an assumption... something most of these calcs continue to rely on even though the end result always goes against the established speed scaling. I'm all for calcs but when they start going against the established speed for the verse then there's something wrong.

It's an assumption, but not an inherently bad one.
In the very panels you posted, he's facing forward, in the panel he's getting blasted in the face, his body has turned to face it. That isn't an assumption, that is something that happened.

The only assumption would be he did that whole turn in the time it took the blast to go from point A (the distance the eye thing was) to the furthest point we see it extend beyond him (so close to the wall). But in reality, it's likely less, as that assumption would dictate he was turning, and continued to turn even after he was hit by the blast, but kept turning anyway. Which needless to say, I don't think any reasonable person would do but for the benefit of low ending it, that would be the assumption.

While what I said was an assumption, it was an assumption made in the case of your argument, the highest possible window of reaction he would've had to make that movement. Though, it also depends on that detonation velocity for these things, a lower speed explosion would get kinda bad results l̵i̵k̵e̵ ̵s̵u̵b̵s̵o̵n̵i̵c̵

 

[Cyberblader90]

repost for takaba:

i think context for takaba needs to be given here. His CE output and speed increase when wanting to do something he considers funny, in accordance with his reality warping technique. This is how he both dodges and survives explosions. The scene of him saving Megumi is him trying to be funny in his own way, which lines up with dialogue he gives right after.

His technique literally warps reality so things will go exactly as they need to for his attempted comedy. As such nobody should be scaling to takaba, since he varies in stats from scene to scene.

 

[Cyberblader90]

oh and before i get "no limits fallacy" called

 

[KingTempest]

It's an assumption, but not an inherently bad one.
In the very panels you posted, he's facing forward, in the panel he's getting blasted in the face, his body has turned to face it. That isn't an assumption, that is something that happened.

The only assumption would be he did that whole turn in the time it took the blast to go from point A (the distance the eye thing was) to the furthest point we see it extend beyond him (so close to the wall). But in reality, it's likely less, as that assumption would dictate he was turning, and continued to turn even after he was hit by the blast, but kept turning anyway. Which needless to say, I don't think any reasonable person would do but for the benefit of low ending it, that would be the assumption.

While what I said was an assumption, it was an assumption made in the case of your argument, the highest possible window of reaction he would've had to make that movement. Though, it also depends on that detonation velocity for these things, a lower speed explosion would get kinda bad results l̵i̵k̵e̵ ̵s̵u̵b̵s̵o̵n̵i̵c̵

Solution
Just don't use it in the argument

Because Chariot, this thread is pretty much Narrative + Calcs vs High Result Calcs.
Making calcs based solely on assumption isn't something beneficial to either side, and it'd tip the scales even when the logic behind the calc is ass.

So it can be calced, but it can't help either side when it's based on flimsy logic

 

[PrinceofPein]

Why is it an argument when the author said he aim dodged?

So the only calc left now is the Gojo’s calc?


I’m the OP but KT carried the thread no doubt

 

[Dr._whiteee]

The Fwash????? It happens over and over.

The fwash is the proof of the detonation starting.

No fwash, no boom

The fourth pabnel proves you wrong as he clearly isn't exploding the eyeball at that point in time. The hash lines are a much stronger indicator of the explosion.

Why do you think Gege drew the hash lines on the second megumi feat?

 

[Dr._whiteee]

even if was off guard, my prior points stands, he needed takaba for the tooth, and he was confirmed to have done the same thing reggie did to avoid the blast. Reggie even says 'woah" to the first blast while crouching and holding his ears. These guys are not "outpacing" explosions

Except you're completely ignoring that once again, Regi was in a coordinated effort with Blondie and we don't even see Reggie in the scan where Megumi is standing staring at the tooth. Plus Reggie did not have to perform separate actions like Megumi did.

So yes, Megumi 100% outpaced the second explosion.

 

[Arkenis]

The fourth pabnel proves you wrong as he clearly isn't exploding the eyeball at that point in time. The hash lines are a much stronger indicator of the explosion.

Why do you think Gege drew the hash lines on the second megumi feat?

Bro the fourth panel has an explosion. The eye in foreground is exploding and sending the second one forward. You are not paying attention

 

[Chariot190]

Solution
Just don't use it in the argument

Because Chariot, this thread is pretty much Narrative + Calcs vs High Result Calcs.
Making calcs based solely on assumption isn't something beneficial to either side, and it'd tip the scales even when the logic behind the calc is ass.

So it can be calced, but it can't help either side when it's based on flimsy logic

Lad, the only assumption being made is one that benefits you. In fact the "assumption" is less of an "assumption" and more of a "it absolutely had to have happened within this timeframe, anything higher is impossible to have occurred".
Thinking on it, that isn't even an assumption being made, it's actually the lack of assuming anything. It's taking two pieces of info we know had to have happened, and that just seeing how fast that was? Isn't that what you want? Calcs without any presumptions, just flat out hard info and sequences?

There isn't an assumption made to fill in blanks or info we do not know in order to find a speed. There is no "well MAYBE he did this", or "this COULD have happened", it's simply taking what we know happened 100% (He was facing one way when it went off, he's turned the other way when the explosion is mid propulsion hitting him in the face. Ergo He had to have made that turn in the span the explosion went from Point A to Point B), and using that info to find out the speed. There's unironically zero assumptions involved, it's calcing what's put on paper with nothing else involved.

 

[Arkenis]

 

[Cyberblader90]

Gege is literally telling the reader how evades the blast. Every single translation says that he aim dodged it

 

[Chariot190]

Except you're completely ignoring that once again, Regi was in a coordinated effort with Blondie and we don't even see Reggie in the scan where Megumi is standing staring at the tooth. Plus Reggie did not have to perform separate actions like Megumi did.

So yes, Megumi 100% outpaced the second explosion.

Unfortunately lad, I agree with them on this one. They make it quite clear he hauled ass right before it actually detonated. You could still calc the speed though given he did all that while it was in free fall, but you're looking at, unironically, subsonic.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Gege is literally telling the reader how evades the blast. Every single translation says that he aim dodged it

I don't think you know what aim dodging means.

 

[Chariot190]

I don't think you know what aim dodging means.

Moved before it started moving or acting, head start, etc. You know what he means.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Unfortunately lad, I agree with them on this one. They make it quite clear he hauled ass right before it actually detonated. You could still calc the speed though given he did all that while it was in free fall, but you're looking at, unironically, subsonic.

In order for this to be true we'd have to assume wayyy to much.

We'd have to assume that she hash lines on teeth in the panel megumi is staring at them mean nothing despite precedence.

We'd have to assume that Blondie:
A.) Waited for whatever reason to detonate in that position (the position Gege chose to focus on showing before cutting to the explosion.)
B.) That blondie did not detonate his teeth despite also witnessing Megumi perform all of these actions (as in any other case Megumi is outpacing the detonation.

or
C.) Blondie could not react to Megumi at all and was unable to detonate his tooth prior to Megumi's movements.

 

[Arkenis]

Like a dodge before you actually have to dodge, like ducking for cover because something's gonna happen instead of ducking as it's happening.

 

[Chariot190]

Nah the hash lines means it's about to explode.
But about to explode and actually detonating aren't the same.
Even if it's only a 10th of a second between those two points, doing all that is still feasible, it'd need superspeed but to just grab someone and move a handful of meters is possible with just superhuman speed, not inherently hyper or high hyper or what not.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Nah the hash lines means it's about to explode.
But about to explode and actually detonating aren't the same.
Even if it's only a 10th of a second between those two points, doing all that is still feasible, it'd need superspeed but to just grab someone and move a handful of meters is possible with just superhuman speed, not inherently hyper or high hyper or what not.

Ok then we are on the same page. The hash lines indicate that something internal is happening to the matter that is being converted into an explosion. Similar to a primer in a bomb. But it still indicates that the process has started, which correct me if I am wrong, would still be apart of the process considered when talking about detonation given the initial force that begins the process caries the supersonic shockwave outward which is then followed by the rest of the process.

I don't see how that changes anything here, especially, since we can confirm he is at a standstill at this point and yet to initiate any of his actions.

In other words "VOD is the velocity or rate of propagation of chemical decomposition/reaction." And for high explosives, it is generally above 1000 m/s.

Is there something I am missing?

 

[Chariot190]

The hash lines indicate that something internal is happening to the matter that is being converted into an explosion. Similar to a primer in a bomb. But it still indicates that the process has started, which correct me if I am wrong, would still be apart of the process considered when talking about detonation given the initial force that begins the process caries the supersonic shockwave outward which is then followed by the rest of the process.

Has the explosion process ever actually been explained in detail? If they're indication of an internal chemical reaction that happens, then yeah you'd could be right, but if they explode via wacky magic stuff, there really wouldn't be an exact mechanism behind that so we can't assume it's comparable to irl explosive devices without evidence comparing or explaining they are.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Has the explosion process ever actually been explained in detail? If they're indication of an internal chemical reaction that happens, then yeah you'd could be right, but if they explode via wacky magic stuff, there really wouldn't be an exact mechanism behind that so we can't assume it's comparable to irl explosive devices without evidence comparing or explaining they are.

He's stated to turn his body parts into explosives. While the conduit is cursed energy I don't think that's particularly relevant given
the effect is has on the environment is demonstrably comparable to high explosives (which start at detonation speeds ala 1,000m/s and we would say deflagration at speeds lower than this) and Reggie and him also poured gasoline in the hallway in order to magnify the explosion.

 

[Chariot190]

So it doesn't detail the actual explosion mechanisms? Just "they're an explosive".

Unfortunately, I think they might be right, while the lines do indicate they're about to explode, we can't say or derive a timeframe from that. It could be 1 second, or it could be 1/1000th, we don't know for sure, could be anything. So it isn't quite the same as moving after say, a grenade pin has been pulled and the mechanisms has been proc'd and the chemical reaction within is expanding.

 

[KingTempest]

The fourth pabnel proves you wrong as he clearly isn't exploding the eyeball at that point in time. The hash lines are a much stronger indicator of the explosion.

You're funny as shit

There's a tooth and an eye.
The tooth exploded to propel the eye forward

 

[Dr._whiteee]

So it doesn't detail the actual explosion mechanisms? Just "they're an explosive".

Unfortunately, I think they might be right, while the has lines do indicate they're about to explode, we can't say or derive a timeframe from that. It could be 1 second, or it could be 1/1000th, we don't know for sure, could be anything. So it isn't quite the same as moving after say, a grenade pin has been pulled and the mechanisms has been proc'd and the chemical reaction within is expanding.

But we can IMO. Anytime there is an actual explosion we know the process has to be supersonic. It is a direct consequence of that type of activity rapidly generating energy and having a subsequent effect on the air and material surrounding it. I would agree with you if I was arguing for the speed of a specific explosive, because that can vary greatly, however all I am saying is that the lines indicate the process of "explosion" is beginning (hence the inner motion and expansion) and at a very small scale still contains the detonation velocity even't if it hasn't propelled meters yet. Or else we would see flames as a result. Remember the VDO is the rate of chemical decomposition/reaction.

"VOD is the velocity or rate of propagation of chemical decomposition/reaction." And for high explosives, it is generally above 1000 m/s.action.

With the explosion being an aftereffect. So I personally don't think that should be ignored given the effects we see.

But I respect your opinion on it if you want still think the feat can't use VDO.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

You're funny as shit

There's a tooth and an eye.
The tooth exploded to propel the eye forward

Yeah, I will take the L on that argument.

 

[Chariot190]

snip

But my dude, there's one caveat to that.
While the explosion has to be that fast by absolute pure virtue of being an explosion, and under most circumstances you'd be right. The initiation doesn't have to be the same speed, and in this case, definitely not, when we're talking about supernatural wacky magic mechanisms. It could be anything. Does it just light up then violently explode? how does he actually initiate the blasts? Through what method because it can vary between types? Is it LITERALLY just magic supernatural and it just goes "boom" without any actual inherent physical reason? It's why I asked if it was explained. If we knew we could infer or flat out know for sure but given no scan of that has been posted, I'll presume it hasn't been explained so it could be anything, even just supernatural. At the very least, if it was compared to some sort of actual explosive device in terms of how it works I'd give ya it but atm, I disagree with that feat.

 

[Chariot190]

Holy shit speedster lives up to the name, I refreshed immediately after pressing post, legit sub-second like there.