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Killer Instinct Ultra Revision 2: Stats and Comics

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SamanPatou

SamanPatou

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Second part of my Killer Instinct overhaul, here's the first one, but today we are going to focus on the reboot.

Preface:

These changes would not be applied yet, as a final CRT for abilities will be made in the future, and I want to change everything at the same time.
This is specifically about the rebooted 2013 game, which is an entirely separate continuity from the games from the '90s.
This thread will cover changes to the main statistics (AP, Durability, Speed and LS) and the restoration of the comics in the canon.


References:

For this and the next revision I'm going to use the following material. Bear in mind that not all of this will necessarily be featured in this specific thread, I'm just pointing out the entire material I've taken into account.
  • The game (including gameplay and game modes such as the arcade and the Shadow Lords campaign).
  • The extended biographies of the characters on the official website (they are also featured in the game, as "Dossiers" in the Shadow Lords story mode)
  • The Killer Instinct novella, an official story featured in the official website of the game. Chapters: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6
  • The official comics published by Dynamite Entertainment in 2017. You can easily read them online, but for obvious reasons I can't provide the link here.


Comics

Canonicity:

This has already been discussed in another thread. After discussing with other users in private about that, I admit that my judgement has been rash (no Battletoads pun intended), arbitrary and short sighted. The author calling the story "self-contained" and it requiring no previous knowledge of the series is neither an evidence or a good argument to say they are not canon.
They are official, they are sold on the official website, they don't contradict anything established by previous material and just expand the story and shed light on events that basically happened off screen, without details in the games or anywhere else.
So, that's it, the comics can once again be considered. However, there have been quite some misconceptions about what really happens in there, and I'm going to talk about it.


Jago, Tusk, Kim-Wu and Aganos vs. Gargos

In the last issue, the heroes end up fighting Gargos, apparently keeping him at bay for some time, and this was used to scale them, but this is wrong for several reasons.

Here's the collection of relevant scans that show what I'm about to talk. I had to make some cut to spare the scans that were not relevant, but if you don't believe me you can go and check by yourself. The entire battle is also there, btw.

Basically, the moment they enter the Astral Plane to challenge Gargos, Tusk, Kim-Wu and Tusk are stripped of their Guardians, the source of their superhuman strength (Tusk does superhuman things anyway, but that isn't too relevant). They procede to fight Gargos, even using random sticks. They manage to keep him off balance a bit, but eventually he just overpowers them with extreme ease. Then Aganos comes in, keeping Gargos occupied for a bit, but he still can't match him and ends up being smashed to bits. The other three heroes manage to free their guardians (while wounding their hands trying to break the crystal) and get their powers back. But they still can't do anything to Gargos, and perform even worse than before. Aganos comes back again, this time in his Astral Form, rips Gargos' soul out of his body and yeets him into a portal, while being called weakling.

Overall, this proves that neither of them is comparable to Gargos. Either because he was holding back or this is just a big form of PIS, at the end of the day they weren't a trouble for him, with or without Guardians and superpowers. The same is for Aganos, even his pure form had to use hax in order to get rid of Gargos.

For this reason Jago, Tusk, Kim-Wu and Aganos will lose their 5-C, likely 4-C key. They can't compare to Gargos, and the comics are canon, so this additional key is both wrong and unnecessary.


Attack Potency:


New AP for most of the cast

With that being solved, we can pass onto discussing the new AP rating. As already established in the previous thread, the 6-C feat doesn't exist and still comes from another continuity, so it flies into the bin.
I know it will be disappointing for everyone, but almost the entire of the cast will be 9-B+.
This because there basically isn't any higher, valid featm
You can look everywhere, comics, novella, biography etc.. but you will not find anything that goes past what I'm going to show. Riptor and Mira destroying metal bars, characters jumping down a building, Sabrewulf smashing a wooden shelf, people beating up characters made of metal, Tusk shattering an ice wall (whose size is unknown), eveything I could find was 9-B, and this feat, Mira surviving an explosion (0.0026 tons), is the highest I could find. Mira's a low tier, she gets beaten up by Kim-Wu and refuses to fight with Sabrewulf, Thunder and Aganos, considering them threats. Through some scaling, we basically get all the characters scaling to her in some way, so it's safe.
It is made clear how people like Jago, Tusk and Kim-Wu are stronger than the others (I can elaborate why, if mecessary), but in the end they can still be harmed and killed by the others (like in chapter 6, where Jago would have been killed by a group of Fulgores and Riptors) and lack higher feats.
And so this is it, 9-B+ for everyone, with maybe an "At least" for those who are portrayed are slightly stronger than all the others.


The Firecat

There is, in fact, a 9-A feat available, but it can't be used for scaling.
From Orchid's biography, we learn that she is able to summon an entity called "Firecat", which possesses enough power to obliterate a car.
Orchid followed his advice and felt her hands start to glow with energy, and then the Firecat burst forth, obliterating an old car that sat in the compound.
Obliterating a car is rated as 9-A according to the References for Common Feats page.

However, the problem is that this attack has never been used against someone, or at least we don't have any indication about how they would react. The attack is also described as something extremely powerful, and Orchid doesn't use that very often, but just as a last resort if things get really bad.
Here are more quotes from the same biography:

The last thing he told his daughter was to only use her hidden power unless it was a life or death situation

Surrounded by a horde of Fulgore units, she summoned the Firecat, setting fire to a lab and causing a massive explosion

But this seemingly hidden outpost was soon invaded by an Ultratech battle force, and the companions were surrounded by a massive number of Stalker and Fulgore units. Orchid stared into the face of death and was just about to call upon the Firecat for one last time, but suddenly the enemy called off the attack, leaving a stunned Orchid to wonder who or what had stopped the Ultratech army from wiping them out

She can use it as an attack in gameplay, but without any further and more solid evidence, I strongly believe we can't safely scale this attack to anyone.
For this reason, Orchid would be an exception, having 9-B AP as all the others, but also 9-A via Firecat


Stages and Ultra Combos

This is often brought up when people discuss about how strong the KI characters are, and I feel obliged to address it.
Basically, the stages change when you perform an Ultra Combo, with some notable examples being collapsing a giant bell and summoning a storm.
However, there are plenty of reasons why these can't be used:
  • First, they are gameplay elements intended to make the game more dynamic and cool
  • Such effects occur only when someone performs an Ultra Combo, otherwise the stages stay as they are
  • They are incredibly inconsistent in terms of destruction, sometimes you see the aforementioned examples, other times there are just random explosions in the background, a truck comes crashing it, a war starts and else.
  • All of these are achieved overtime and with multiple attacks, as Ultra Combo is comprised of at least 28 hits, and AP isn't scaled this way
  • They are massive outliers when compared to anything else the characters demonstrated throughout the entirety of the series.

Gargos

Gargos is currently rated as 5-C due to this calc, which is wrong because it accounts a supposed huge amount of clouds being dispersed, when in reality there's barely any and they are mostly unfazed by the shockwave.
I made a new calc for the shockwave and it came out being High 6-A (13 Petatons).

If anyone wonders why his AP is scaled off a portal, it's because that's powered by Shadow Energy, Gargos' main source of power which he stole from other members of his race and is recurrently described as an Universal Energy System that even other characters use. I can elaborate on it if required, but it will be heavily featured in the next thread about powers and abilities.
Gargos' "Likely 4-C" rating stays the same, there are no issues with that.



Lifting Strength

People throwing cars

Most characters are Class 5 because there are multiple instances of people lifting cars. This is correct, but the scans are either missing or have their link broken, so this first part is just to show them
  • Shadow Jago throws a car in a flashback.
  • A Wendigo lifts a jeep. These undeads are fodders, they are easily killed by many other characters, on top of being portrayed as notably weaker (Tusk and Jago in the comics, Sabrewulf, Thunder and Aganos in the novella)
  • In Riptor's biography, an average Stalker (Riptor's species) is described as being able to fetch a car. Just like wendigoes, generic Stalkers are fodders and are notably weaker than anyone. Riptor's a special case, as she's the queen of the pack and the strongest of them.

Aganos

In the first chapter of the novella, Aganos throws another car at high speed, and the result is Class 10.
Aganos is overall portrayed and shown as comparable to other characters in terms of AP, but also as in possession of humongous physical strength, and no one has ever wrestled with him, and so Class 10 is reserved to him.
Gargos will also have it (he already has it, but for no real reason), he is far stronger than Aganos and the Universal Energy System of Shadow Energy validates the scaling.



Speed

Currently they are Massively Hypersonic+ off some cross-scaling with old games, electric attacks assumed to be as fast as actual lightnings and weird scaling to Thunder's lightnings for gameplay reasons.
I made a calc to finally give them something solid, and the result is Massively Hypersonic. A downgrade, but not a heavy one. Scaling is allowed because Kim is comparable to others and not incredibly fast than other characters weaker than her (see the AP section of this thread).
Also, in this moment she was also weaker than usual due to Gargos' absorption. As you can see here, Gargos was passively leeching the Earth's life and the power of everyone living there. This is stated multiple times throughout the comics, and I can grab those additional scans if required.
Gargos will be "At least Massively Hypersonic" due to being much faster than them.

I honestly don't know what to do with their running speed. As seen in the comics section of this thread, the main heroes are made superhuman by the Guardians, and all the others are superhuman for a reason or another, such as genetic enhancements, magic, or enhanced phyisiologies due to being machines or animals. Would a plain Superhuman speed work?

The only notable exception is Riptor, because Tusk needed a Snowmobile in order to follow her running away. The speed of modern snowmobiles varies from 240 km/h to 320 km/h, so I think it's safe to say that Riptor has Subsonic speed, while other characters like Tusk, despite being superhuman, still can't reach such speed with their own legs.


And this is all for now, folks!
 
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This thread (barring the stuff you showed me) looks good and I have nothing to say against it, but...
I honestly don't know what to do with their running speed. As seen in the comics section of this thread, the main heroes are made superhuman by the Guardians, and all the others are superhuman for a reason or another, such as genetic enhancements, magic, or enhanced phyisiologies due to being machines or animals. Would a plain Superhuman speed work?
Click to expand...
I feel that even baseline Superhuman would be too fast without feats to show that they're on that level, that would just be wrong equivocation. Just because the word superhuman is used to describe them, doesn't mean that we should slap a Superhuman speed rating right away. I personally see nothing wrong with doing that, but just to be safe, Peak Human would be a lot better like what we did with the MK characters who lack notable movement speed feats and those whose speed doesn't scale to faster feats.

Other than that everything is good to go, but I will wait for whatever Shadow Lords has for this thread.
 
Peak Human is fine, no problem.

Shadow Lords doesn't have anything else for this thread actually, I've already taken whatever could have been useful.

Shadow Lords will be prominent for the P&A additions, which will be covered in another thread.
 
AP may be fine for me but would that makes peak KI non-god tier high 6-A?

Speed... When ARIA can react within a nano-second (novella feat/statement) and Glacius once got the drop on ARIA... Anything else?

What about Tusk's meteor feat?
 
No, as I explained in the op, none of them can match Gargos and get overpowered both in the games and in the comics. The trump card was Tusk's sword, which is specifically designed and empowered to kill him, and in the comics Aganos' soul hax takes care of him.
I can provide evidendes of Tusk's sword's properties once I get home.

Edit: I might have misintepreted, but it depends on what you mean by non-god tier, because the chatacters would basically be divided in god tiers at High 6-A, likely 4-C (Gargos and Eyedol), and the others at 9-B+ (for the reasons explained in the op), with some characters (like Jago, Tusk and Kim-Wu) upscaling by a notably higher margin than the others'.

I actually forgot about Aria, but the thing is, we don't really have proof she can react at such speed. She can process informations at an extremely fast rate due to being an AI, but nothing proves her mechanical body can move at such speed, and in fact she fails to react to Glacius twice, first in the novella, then in the comics. About the former, it's specifically stated that she recognizes Glacius' face in Eagle's pod and makes a super fast process of thoughts, but then when she tries to get away, she fails and is blasted away by Glacius' exploding attack.
Also, one of her previous bodies fails to react to Tusk in chapter 2 of the novella.
There's also nothing else supporting the characters moving at MFLT+ speed, and imho it's not too farfetched to say that Aria's digital mind (which is her true self, connected worldwide to Ultratech facilities and more) has a "thinking" speed faster than her movement speed, accounting the fact that she basically hops through several bodies in the series, with even the main one being stated to be an untested model (novella, chapter 5), and she plans to eventually move into a human body (still chapter 5).


Tusk's meteor feat belongs to the original games, which are an entirely separate continuity and were already revised in the previous CRT (linked in the op).
That's also just a summoning feat, the meteot appears off screen through unknown means and nothing proves its force scales to Tusk's physicals or flaming powers.
 
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He'll be 9-B+ like all others, though the scaling chain that still connects to Mira.
If you refer to his freezing feat, that was covered in the previous CRT and was basically entirely made up, without anything suggesting it actually happened, on top of coming from the original games, which are a separate continuity.
 
So the original KI and the new KI will be considered as two things and the old profiles keep everything from the old feats and statements and be restricted by such? While new KI characters will have feats and statements only bound by new KI right? Okay do whatever cases is shown as such then.

But, since the god four (?) protagonist did defeat a weaker / weakened Gargos, the god four may imo still scale from such. Otherwise yeah go ahead.
 
Yes, that is correct.
Profiles for old KI characters already exist, I made them when the previous revision ended, you can find them listed on the verse page.

The thing is that they didn't defeat Gargos.
Even when they cut off his power source and got back their guardian spirits, he still stomped them all. Then Aganos' true form came in and tore Gargos' soul from his body, and dragged it into a portal with him.
In the OP you find the link to the entire battle uploaded on Imgur, with the addition of some more scans detailing stuff.
The comics also confirm that the Shadow Lords campaign ended with Tusk driving his magic sword into Gargos' heart, killing his body (but not his soul), which was explained many times to be the only way to wound and kill him.
Even in the past, when Gargos invaded Earth for the first time and Tusk got his powers, the latter's biography explains how he had to wound him with his sword while he was distracted.
The only one who truly had the power to go toe to toe with Gargos was Eyedol, and when he got power drunk, Tusk didn't fight him directly, he instead had to lure him into a portal and banish him to the Astral Plane.
 
I fully approve this. Congratulations for your hard efforts, Saman!

I agree with the Superhuman for speed for most characters, since they're explicitly superhuman.

About Aria, I do agree that the processing speed shouldn't scale to her reaction or even perception speed. Y'see, I like to use a camera as an example for that: Some objects can move far faster than a camera can capture, but once something IS captured, said information is processed in nanoseconds within the machine. In fact, I could extend the example to many pieces of computer software.
 
A lot of this is very face value and not at all diving deeper into the Shadow Lords fights characters have with one another for scaling, which is something I believe is very important to note here. There also seems to be a lot of miscalced information here, as a lot of this information is attempting to scale everyone together besides a few characters which is absolute horseshit. I even made a document about all the characters strongest to weakest (KI 2013 only, accounting for all Shadow Lords Rival Matches, etc.) https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aYVvXT4qcfFCC28x0vBLJnV_xKRAPMyxBMStjuCTOSQ/edit?usp=sharing (See here)

There is so much wrong that it bothers me greatly, this thread obviously doesn't look deeper into the fine print, as your claims are very loose and lacking context, for example you claim Jago, Kim, and Tusk "can't beat Gargos" but they obviously did prior, and in the example you gave above, they were DRAINED of their most powerful assets AND on top of this that is REBORN Gargos; a being far stronger than the original, so downscaling them in that scenario is unnecessary. Going to have to respond to the entirety of this thread to counter argue literally all of your points.

EDIT: Spelling error
 
It seems you're missing some things.

First, the only reason they were able to defeat Gargos was because Tusk's sword, War-gram, is specifically designed to kill him. In the past, Tusk also had to attack Gargos while he was stunned, and to defeat Eyedol he lured him into a portal.
It is clear that the merit of killing Gargos goes to the blade, and not to Tusk's own power, who never faced neither Gargos nor Eyedol in a real duel. We don't know precisely how the Shadow Lords final battle went, but still, the merit of killing Gargos goes to the blade.
Then in the comics we see that, even after getting their powers back, none of them is enough to defeat Gargos, who easily knocks them all down. Gargos also states that even with their full power, they are nowhere their equals. (it's in the scan attached to the word "knocks").
He also says the same thing previously in the fight.

Not even Aganos in his true form was strong enough to kill Gargos. He drives him into a portal, and Jago reveals that he tore his soul out of his body, which is hax.


Also, I've never said that everyone scales to the other in the same way, just that they can eventually be connected to Mira, who's the one withstanding the explosion, which is the main feat available.

I don't know why the Omens would be so strong, they receive some power ups from Gargos, but those are relics that grant special powers (draining energy, healing, doing parries...) it's never stated that they increase their strength.

Some more light is overall shed by the characters' biographies and the novellas, like Spinal receiving the Mask of the Ancients from Aria, Sadira still working for Ultratech (Chapter 6), although she most likely wants to betray them.

Eyedol's also very weird, we don't know what happens to him and his resurrection might as well be happened only in his own canon, but anyway he is mostly out of the equation. We only know he is strong enough to fight Gargos, and was banished when Tusk tricked him.

Finally, I don't know where you're taking all those moon, island, city etc. levels.
 
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I would figure his striking strength would still need to be comparable
more importantly, the two times jago and co fight gargos, they dont get one shot (if i recall) or die. jago and tusk should downscale
 
this is even stated:
dfCgAs7q490-00-01-05.png
 
It's not striking strength if the blade is magically enhanced to pierce his heart, as it works only on him and it's durability negation..

The time Jago and co fight Gargos they are without any power, they're literal humans because their Guardians Spirits have been sealed into Gargos' slime. They don't get oneshot, but the moment Gargos becomes slightly more serious he totally stomps them. And when they get their powers, they perform even worse. Even corporeal Aganos manages to punch him only a single time, and then he gets shred to pieces.
I linked the whole battle in the op, including the scans where it's stated that they were powerless, that Gargos was unfathomably stronget than them even when they were at peak strength, that Aganos had to use soul hax etc..
In that battle Gargos was most likely holding back, we can't downscale them to him if he the only thing he needs is to get a bit more serious and take them down in a second.
 
about the blade argument:
dfCgAs7q490-00-01-10.png

Tusk's sword being one of the only weapons that can fully kill Gargos is probably based on its ability to kill immortals, not so much dura neg
 
Cyberblader90 said:
this is even stated:
dfCgAs7q490-00-01-05.png
Click to expand...


Right, I was going to cover that in the CRT of powers and abilities.
I believe they refer to them having the same immortality/invulnerability powers. First, they obviously aren't born as equal in a literal sense, Gargos is of a completely different species of incorporeal being and is much, much older than Tusk, who was a common human.
They most likely refer to Tusk being reborn as a watchman, when the Ichories bestowed their Shadow Powers onto him.
Similarly, Gargos rampaged over the Astral Plane, killing the Ichories and siphoning their powers, the same used to make Tusk immortal and invulnerable:


Then the showings and statements in the comics do the rest, they couldn't bother Gargos even when they had their full power, before and now.
All in all, it's much more likely and makes much more sense that "born as equals" refers to them both being immortal and invulnerable after receiving or stealing the same powers.

Cyberblader90 said:
about the blade argument:
Tusk's sword being one of the only weapons that can fully kill Gargos is probably based on its ability to kill immortals, not so much dura neg
Click to expand...
It's kind of the same, Warg-gram is specifically designed to kill Gargos, either because it bypasses his dura or negs his invulnerability and immortality, and Gargos still doesn't need the sword to kill Tusk (as stated in Tusk's bio), but having it means his enemies don't have anything to kill him.
 
His fate is utterly tied to his blade, for Warg-gram (Wolf-wrath) as he named it, is a living thing, embedded with a fragment of the Ichorien communal soul, and forged from the most primal and unbreakable element of the Astral plane. The sword guides him with visions, and, because of its Astral origins and adamantine properties, is one of the only weapons capable of piercing a Shadow Lord’s heart.
Click to expand...

My blade - Warg-Gram, the wrath of the wolf -- speaks to me. It is not just a sword, it is a living thing forged from the most primal and unbreakable elements of the Astral Plane. It was one of the few weapons that could pierce the Shadow Lord's heart and render him unto destruction.
Click to expand...

Neither of these quotes support dura neg, just that the blade is quite strong.

if the blade is purely dura neg, it should have gone through gargos here, or broken from the impact if its weak

Lgsdmwm.jpeg
 
SamanPatou said:
Right, I was going to cover that in the CRT of powers and abilities.
I believe they refer to them having the same immortality/invulnerability powers. First, they obviously aren't born as equal in a literal sense, Gargos is of a completely different species of incorporeal being and is much, much older than Tusk, who was a common human.
They most likely refer to Tusk being reborn as a watchman, when the Ichories bestowed their Shadow Powers onto him.
Similarly, Gargos rampaged over the Astral Plane, killing the Ichories and siphoning their powers, the same used to make Tusk immortal and invulnerable:


Then the showings and statements in the comics do the rest, they couldn't bother Gargos even when they had their full power, before and now.
All in all, it's much more likely and makes much more sense that "born as equals" refers to them both being immortal and invulnerable after receiving or stealing the same powers.


It's kind of the same, Warg-gram is specifically designed to kill Gargos, either because it bypasses his dura or negs his invulnerability and immortality, and Gargos still doesn't need the sword to kill Tusk (as stated in Tusk's bio), but having it means his enemies don't have anything to kill him.
Click to expand...
Tusk wasn't born with his immortality.
Also both being immortal wouldn't make them "equals"
And Gargos being older and a different species is completely irrelevant to that statement as well.
 
More than pure dura neg, it's something that can hurt him if it lands a clean hit. In that scan Gargos blocked with his own bone blades, but the sword was made to kill him, and it's not like Tusk went around stomping everyone he had fought because his blade can basically oneshot everything and everyone on the planet, he still had to put up fights against Kim-Wu, Shadow Jago etc..

Moreover, we know the blade can't hurt Tusk himself:

Cinder staggered forward like a puppet and swung Warg-gram at Tusk, but the blade merely sliced through the Ultratine netting as though it were nothing more than string, leaving Tusk unscathed.

The same sword hit Riptor, Aria and Fulgore, but they didn't explode to pieces. Riptor survived, and Aria needed a second hit to be destroyed.

He leapt up with a roar, swinging Warg-gram back and forth with a wild fury, sparks spraying forth as though blasted from a smithy’s furnace. He was unstoppable. The automaton’s head went flying; the little dragon flipped over on its back, landing with a heavy thump in the snow where it writhed in agony; and the metallic woman stumbled backwards—jets of flame spewing from her torso.

“Death comes to all!” shouted Tusk. “Except for me!”

The metallic woman held up a broken hand, but he lunged forward, swinging his blade, smashing her to pieces.


Cyberblader90 said:
Tusk wasn't born with his immortality.
Also both being immortal wouldn't make them "equals"
And Gargos being older and a different species is completely irrelevant to that statement as well.
Click to expand...
That's relevant, because Tusk was born as a human.
If he really was born as Gargos' pure equal in strength and everything, he wouldn't have needed to be saved by the Ichories and receive his various powers, guardian spirit and sword.

Tusk faced Gargos on the field of battle, but the Astral demon mortally wounded the brave swordsman. As Tusk lay dying he was teleported to the Astral Plane by the benevolent beings known as Ichoriens. They infused him with Shadow Energy—thus making him immortal—then gave him a powerful weapon, and sent him back to Earth to continue his duel with Gargos.

He was just a powerless human, him being born as equal to Gargos can't be taken literally, and we have reason to believe they refer to them having the same powers from the same source.
And the comics still show us that plain, human Tusk can't nothing against Gargos.
 
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If the blade had 4-C striking strength, they would have exploded into particles, or at very least they would have died immediately, and the same should have happened to all the other characters who fought Tusk.
Instead, Riptor survived and was still conscious, and Aria even somewhat withstood the hit and could stand up and needed another hit. Not much after, Riptor got uo and ran away.
We also read about how Tusk's own invulnerability makes him impervious against Warg-gram itself, and he specifically needs Gargos to end his life, instead of just committing suicide with his own blade.

It makes much more sense, and is supported by the info we have, that the sword's nature makes it capable of injuring Gargos, who would have been either too durable or straight up invulnerable, assuming he were to possess the same immortality Tusk has.
Against all other people, it's works as """normal""" sword made by umbreakable materials and wielded by a swordsman with superhuman strength.
 
If the blade had 4-C striking strength, they would have exploded into particles, or at very least they would have died immediately, and the same should have happened to all the other characters who fought Tusk.
Click to expand...

i dont think this has ever been a thing? Like under this same logic gargos should have atomized anything hes ever hit
 
Gargos could have held back, though, while you can't really restrict a sword.
Well, it is a living thing with a spirit inside, but we are going to make too many assumptions without anything supporting that.

Is much more likely that this weapon, which is repeteadly described as being made with the specific purpose of killing Gargos, has dura/immort negging powers. instead of incredibly high AP.
 
I don't buy the concept that they would have just been obliterated into millions of pieces if the blade was much, much higher in tier only because fiction doesn't always follow by rules of reality, so I'd rather avoid that argument.

However, the blade is specifically designed to kill Gargos, just because it doesn't negate durability in the manner that it phases through objects wouldn't detract from this fact. Gargos is even telling us that a full power Tusk is still nowhere near his equal and while you might not think that isn't saying much because of what the gap in tiers would be, it would be putting more emphasis on the fact that the blade is what Tusk's strength is, and not himself.
 
Yes, a last one to revise powers and abilities, intelligence, remove cross-canon stuff from the old games etc..
 
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