King Hassan vs Ashen One

[Sir_Ovens]

The Bell tolls...

And the Lords go without thrones vs It hath tolled thy name

6-C keys for both. Speed equalized. Starting distance is 10 meters. Win via SBA.

 

[Lapsad]

Waht about king hassan start first ?

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

Lump

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Bump.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I don't think 6-C applies to the Ashen One because the calc had a minor mistake that actually should've put it at low 6-B from what I heard in another thread.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

I think it's just the Low 6-B end that's changed. The 6-C end is fine.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

In that case, can King Hassan permakill the Ashen One?

 

[Botchede]

King Hassan generally starts with his NP if he wants to kill off someone.

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

Doesn't the Ashen One require a Bonfire to resurrect? If so, wouldn't his death count as BFR?

It seems like Hassan has the advantage via. Presence Concealment + slight insta-kill chance per hit.

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

Pretty sure we usually just assume a bonfire is nearby.

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

In that case, can King Hassan permakill the Ashen One?

Gonna go ahead and say yes. The instant death works similary to the MEoDP, he kills your fate. Something like High-Godly regen would be needed to come back from it.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

It's not really Regen, it's more like he's cursed to come back to life via the First Flame.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Bump.

 

[APersonWithTime]

"Something like High-Godly regen would be needed to come back from it.' - This would not save you from King Hassan.

At all.


You still die if you have the concept of death. And even then, King Hassan also has the ability to give full Immortals (impossible to die) the concept of death (now they are mortal)

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Hassan has no feats of bypassing High-Godly last time I checked

And enforcing the concept of death into someone doesnt bypass High-Godly either

 

[APersonWithTime]

Regen means nothing to insta-death. No matter the type.


And it wasn't 'enforcing' the concept of death.

Hassan literally made Tiamat, who had ZERO concept of death, mortal.

Ergo, Hassan can make immortals mortal - not 'enforcing' the concept of death but granting it.


High-godly regen is still regen - you can still be killed by the concept of death.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

High-Godly regen is still a form of immortality that can brought you back regardless if you dies by clinical or supernatural methods. It can literally make you come back from conceptual and narrative stuff, so just "dying" wont bypass it

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Guys, you're derailing. Ashen doesn't even have godly regen.

 

[APersonWithTime]

King Hassan stomps here.

Real hard.


I assume we're using Grand Servant, who is weaker than the entire Heroic Spirit by leagues, and yet this servant still stomps utterly.


Every attack can end the life and his noble phantasm, when used, decapitates his opponent and ends the fight nigh-instantly.


It's almost like pulling Gilgamesh, but Gilgamesh would stomp even King Hassan.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

There's a reason why I made the starting distance 10 meters though, Ashen can parry Hassasn's sword.

 

[APersonWithTime]

.... Parry his sword?

You do realize that Hassan is a master swordsman, right?


And that parrying his sword is near impossible without INCREDBILE reflexes due to his presence concealment?

Not only that, but parrying his sword means nothing when you get nicked in the arm still - thus a chance of insta kill.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

>You do realize that Hassan is a master swordsman, right?

So is Ashen One

>And that parrying his sword is near impossible without INCREDBILE reflexes due to his presence concealment?

Good thing Ashen has that

>Not only that, but parrying his sword means nothing when you get nicked in the arm still - thus a chance of insta kill.

Type 8.

 

[TacticalNuke002]

Hassan's presence concealment is immeasurably superior to the likes of Jack the Ripper's who can use it to carry corpses along crowded streets with no one noticing. Ashen One doesn't know what's up and dies. I think its a clear stomp.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Is any of Hassan's stuff considered magic?

 

[APersonWithTime]

All of it is.


Legit all of it. The only reason Hassan ever is found or heard is because his presence concealment is cursed to always reveal himself to the person he is going to kill

Even then, Ashen One stands no chance because as soon as he reveals himself, the fear of Death is implanted upon the person's psyche and it can petrify even Servants.

To see King Hassan is to basically die.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Ashen can neg magic will law manip.

 

[APersonWithTime]

Lmao.


Conceptual magic > Law manip


Ashen is stomped bro.

Plus, "neg magic" makes no sense here - how can Ashen even negate a conceptual kill? Hassan's kill magic is essentially Divine Punishment - when you see Hassan, you're destined to die. Because of his faith in his sword, "law manipulation" is pretty much useless as his faith in his sword is the only reason it has such an ability.


Just checked Ashen One's abilities - Yeah, Ashen One gets stomped. He can't negate Hassan's magic abilities.

"denies their being into physicality" - Hassan's "instakill" magic is conceptual, not phyical.

And his "power nullification" wouldn't work on Hassan due to Hassan not casting magic.


The limited law manipulation you mentioned doesn't work at all against Hassan.

It's practically an Origin Bullet and Hassan can easily withstand that.

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

This is a great argument that'll be lost forever soon...

 

[Paul_Frank]

Hassan's stuff isn't considered magic, he's not a caster kek

 

[TacticalNuke002]

A Servant IS a mass of magic given human form so...

 

[APersonWithTime]

Hassan's stuff is definitely considered magic.

He's a servant.


TacticalNuke says it best.

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

Hassan's presence concealment is immeasurably superior to the likes of Jack the Ripper's who can use it to carry corpses along crowded streets with no one noticing. Ashen One doesn't know what's up and dies. I think its a clear stomp.

uh, no. Jack's PC rank is A+, Hassan's is A, it's worse.

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

Conceptual magic > Law manip

When? And since when is Hassan's magic conceptual?

Ashen is stomped bro.

Plus, "neg magic" makes no sense here - how can Ashen even negate a conceptual kill?

True, you can't exactly negate his insta-kill, since it's smurfy iirc. It's not conceptual tho, but he does kill your fate, so high-godly (or the equivalent of it) is needed to come back.

Hassan's kill magic is essentially Divine Punishment - when you see Hassan, you're destined to die. Because of his faith in his sword, "law manipulation" is pretty much useless as his faith in his sword is the only reason it has such an ability.

What When was any of this stated?

Just checked Ashen One's abilities - Yeah, Ashen One gets stomped. He can't negate Hassan's magic abilities.

"denies their being into physicality" - Hassan's "instakill" magic is conceptual, not phyical.

I don't think you understand what that means. and again with the conceptual bs?

And his "power nullification" wouldn't work on Hassan due to Hassan not casting magic.


The limited law manipulation you mentioned doesn't work at all against Hassan.

It's practically an Origin Bullet and Hassan can easily withstand that.

When the hell could servants withstand Origin Bullets? If anything they shouldn't.

 

[TacticalNuke002]

Hassan's is A because of being averaged by the curse on him. Up until he actually attacks, its better than Jack's.

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

"The vestiges of what he once learned. As he carries a strong curse, even if this swordsman obtains a complete success in his stealth check, his existence ends up being perceived by the "opponent he is about to kill."

His being better than Jack's is not stated anywhere; the only Hassan who has one better than Jack is Strange/Fake's Hassan.

 

[SleepyTBubble]

Hassan's is A because of being averaged by the curse on him. Up until he actually attacks, its better than Jack's.

Lol no. It's A because it's A.

The curse activates the moment he attacks (swing his sword) revealing himself but it has nothing to do with PC rank

 

[APersonWithTime]

Servants could always withstand origin bullets.

Anyone who says otherwise is a joke because Origin Bullets only sever and bind - they'd work against a servant, sure, but a servant could still shrug it off with C Rank Endurance or B rank Magic Resistance.

"When? And since when is Hassan's magic conceptual?" - When someone asks if Fate magic isn't conceptual, please smack them.

Every servant has conceptual attacks. Hassan brings the concept of Death. "Since when is Hassan's magic conceptual" - Since the beginning of time.

"What When was any of this stated?" - Hassan himself believes in his sword, granting it the abilities. He also walked the Valley of Death, thus granting more of the same ability. Search up his wiki page, he himself believes it.

"I don't think you understand what that means" - I do.


Also, seriously, nearly everything in Fate when it comes to servants is conceptual.

Ea and Sha Naqba Imuru are Truth in concept.

Avalon's concept is the Absolute Defense.

Rho Aias has the concept of stopping any projectile.

Gae Bolg's concept is the Heart is Pierced, thus the spear is thrust.

Hassan's instakill magic is definitely conceptual in nature.


Magecraft in general is conceptual - the stronger concept wins.

Seriously, what is it with this "since when was hassan's magic conceptual"

Since always, bro.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

"Since the beginning of time"

"Since always bro"

Nice rebuttals

 

[Schnee_One]

Hassan either kills Ashen, or can't and Ashen eventually kills him

This match sucks

 

[APersonWithTime]

"Nice rebuttals"

Well, what can I say to someone who doesn't read source material? To tell them to read the source material? OR read the wiki? Something they SHOULD HAVE DONE?


They're being stupid. They deserve stupid answers.

"Hassan either kills Ashen, or can't and Ashen eventually kills him" - Hassan has the abilities necessary to kill Ashen.

Ashen is not gonna win a battle against King Hassan as a servant at all.