King Sombra saves Equestria (part 1)

[Lightbuster30]

Say what now? Look my logic is extremely simple: Starlight's magic is strong enough to pass through the shards without being negated, while not being strong enough to actually break them. That's it. And you know what? Given how inverse swaure law works, I'd argue if she focused that magic into a beam she might be able to break them outright. Albiet with more effort than Tirek.

I do have real proof. I've given more than a few examples of magic negation/absorption being resisted by simple strength difference.

If you won't continue the discussion, then I will. I; at a personal level, think there is merit to discussing this.

 

[MrKerf]

When she was in the cage at the beggining, she wasn't able to send magic through shards. But afterwards she was. That means that smt has changed. Also, do we use inverse square law here? I thought, after one thread about Saitama, that we do not use it at all.

Which are all speculative. Okay, maybe not all, but most of all can be argued. Either it is not magic negating crystals (which is yet another topic in our list) or something super unique.

And don't get me wrong, I'm all in discussing this. But not here and with more people.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Well I'd still argue she might be powerful enough to overpower the crystals, but then again it's an energy wave we're talking about here. There's a very strong chance the crystals did nullify the magic, but only the magic it came in contact with.

None of them are speculative. We're straight up told Tirek has to get stronger to absorb certain magic and straight up told that Twilight can't negate Sombra's magic because she's simply too weak. There is nothing super unique going on and between our two arguments, pretending like it's something super unique is the more assumptive and speculative route. If they wanted something super unique to be the source of resistance then it would have been pointed out.

So what? If it's people you want, it's people I can get. I know tons of knowledgeable people on the verse and have easy contact with them.

 

[MrKerf]

That's... How? The zone was pretty clear. It's impossible for shards to null part of her wave, but for webs to be destroyed.

Wait a sec, why are we arguing this? God, I'm so confused.

I would just prefer to create a new thread for this. Why are you so against it?

 

[Lightbuster30]

Cozy got pretty close to the bars without losing her magic to the crystal. If all else fails, I'm still willing to call PIS. Whole lot of stuff going on that is either contradictory, or doesn't make sense.

I thought the reasons were obvious.

This isn't anything that requires an entire thread for, thats why. Stuff like willpower affecting power should be a given.

If you want a thread then give me the time to make one. I'm already attemtping to begin one to copy-paste one from my sandbox to actual thread, though I'm still checking out potential sources.

 

[Lightbuster30]

You realize that if everything you say is true, then a bloodlusted Sombra stomps them? He has magic resistance that can save him from the EOH, so one-shotting is out of the question, neither side has any notable hax to aid them in battle (None that they use in character anyways), and the first thing Sombra does is trap them in a magic nulling cage. They literally have no wincons.

Though I'm seriously questioning the legitimency of a lot of Sombra's abilities. Especially magic negation and magic resistance on the level of the EOH. I really should have commented on the Sombra revisions when I had the chance.

 

[Jimboydejuan12]

sup im voted King Sombra Fra.

 

[Lightbuster30]

sup im voted King Sombra Fra.

Read reasons for why this is a stomp if Sombra is bloodlusted before voting.

 

[Jimboydejuan12]

sup im voted King Sombra Fra.

Read reasons for why this is a stomp if Sombra is bloodlusted before voting.

you saying Read Checked your Voted Count?

 

[Lightbuster30]

you saying Read Checked your Voted Count?

I'm saying that with Sombra bloodlusted, and with his current abilities, this is a stomp. Sombra needs to be in a regular mindset.

 

[Jimboydejuan12]

sure what would do you must that restirct abilities own?

 

[Lightbuster30]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhd9dI1h680

I'm honestly surprised that crystals supposedly immune to magic can get broken by magical fire. Yes, dragon fire is described as magical. Not just Spike's fire, but dragons in general are described as having magical fire.

 

[MrKerf]

I mean, let's be real: canon mindset Sombra is not winning anyone. Although I may switch it to just prior knowledge, after the revisions.

Link the exact time please, not the whole video. And Spike didn't actually break it. Cadence did. Here they're intact. Here too, but quickly broken by Cadence. Idk, maybe she can break heated crystals easier, eh.

 

[Lightbuster30]

He can.

That Spike weakened the crystals enough for Cadance to smash them still proves that the crystals aren't immune to magic based attacks.

 

[MrKerf]

There's no visual indication of anything though. Also, it may be because of the fact that Spike wasn't inside the cage. Maybe that's how it works. Also also, even besides all other points, I would rather consider this an outlier, based on the fact that alicorns can't break free/weaken crystal, but Spike can.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Visual indication of what?

Are you ******* serious? I'm not accepting that as an answer.

First: Sombra blackmailed Cadance and Shining Armor into surrendering via Flurry Heart. Second: Flurry Heart is the only alicorn who actually failed to break it. Flurry Heart. A foal. Who are known to have magic surges. And even then we can't gauge her full power due to lack of feats.

No, I yet again refuse to count Twilight as one who failed because her willpower was at an all time low and thus her focus and magic power were as well. We see that she can actually fight and even slightly overpower him when she's completely unafraid of him, meanwhile she was completely unable to overpower his mind control in Ponyville based on nothing but strength difference. Ya know, the same Ponyville Twilight who was terrified and saw herself hilariously beneath Sombra? Same Twilight who was traumatized and utterly demoralized from watching the Tree of Harmony shatter?

Thirdly: I really don't care; nor think it even is for that matter, if it's an outlier. It's resistance to magic is one based on sheer durability, not some unique magic immunity. The writers wouldn't have had someone with magic fire weaken the cage if they thought it was immune to magic attacks.

 

[MrKerf]

Of him weakening the crystal. In any way.

And I'm not accepting that as an argument. Although I too don't believe in that explanation, but it is still in the realm of possibility. We haven't seen anything affecting "nulling cage" from outside, after all.

And here we are again, at the willpower topic. We see her overpowering him only one time (or, if you prefer, in a one scene) that was at the very end of the episode, and can be entitled (like many other similair moments) friendship ex machina. We cannot use this scene as an example because we can't say if it's a willpower or a plot. And since it is "mane 6 vs a big bad villain" scenario, I'm more convinced that it is a plot.

Except they would. They are writers, after all. They were just creating a scene and were like "Hey, it would be cool, if we put Spike here".

 

[Lightbuster30]

Beyond the fact that he was needed? Beyond the fact that heat can structurally weaken things? Even then, Cadance smashing through it still proves it can't negate magic. Because their magic is what enhances their strength to begin with. Without it they're limited by their natrual body. And if magic is enhancing their strength, then the magic is going to be negated the instant she comes in contact with it.

No, it's not in the realm of possibility. At all. This is pure assumption. It's not even headcanon by this point; at least that is grounded on something.

When. She. Wasn't. Afraid. Of. Him. Oh look, that has to deal with willpower doesn't it? Sorry, but being enhanced by the magic of friendship is such blatant headcanon that I'm not going to even entertain it as an argument. You have nothing proving it. Being "with her friends" doesn't mean she's enhanced. It means she's with her friends. End of story. I'll only ever accept her being enhanced by the Magic of Friendship when we blatantly see it active. And the only time we saw it active was at the very absolute end.

Not to mention how Sombra struggled to steal the Heart from Cadance in the clip you posted, and Celestia considers Twilight and Cadance comparable in power. Now why would Sombra struggle with an equal to Twilight yet low diff Twilight herself? Unless. Maybe. Twilight wasn't at full power due to being underconfident? Maybe her fear and lack of focus with all the chaos going on messed with her A Game? Naw, it couldn't be.

In all seriousness, I stand by what I said. Willpower and your mental state has everything to do with everything you do. And with something as closely related to the mind as magic (Many spells require concentration and even using your mind to shape the spell), I doubt Twilight's mental state was suitable to properly fight Sombra up until the last confrontation.

 

[Lightbuster30]

I'm also still of the opinion that magic is influenced by emotions in general. Trixie teleported the table based on the place that made her happiest.

 

[MrKerf]

What? Heelll no. This is the most headcanon-ish thing I've ever seen. And you calling my arguments headcanon? Yeah, right.

I'm not talking about magic of friendship at all. I'm talking about the power of plot. The same power, that exist one way or another in all seasons, regardless of anything. Try to find some other proof of emotion based magic.

Eh, I don't know, I need to rewatch it again. But from what I remember, I wouldn't consider it struggling, he was pulling it towards himself.

And I am still disagreeing. I believe magic is focus reliant, not willpower/emotions. Yes, you can lose concentration and weaken your spell, but not when you have a single task at hands.

Trixie teleported the table to the place she was thinking. Spell works that way.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Gonna attempt to make a response after I do some schoolwork. Might take a few hours.

 

[MrKerf]

Don't hurry yourself too much, I'm gonna go sleep.

 

[Phoenks]

Could I get a summary on the arguments that have been made since I've been on this thread?

 

[Lightbuster30]

Tbh I'm pretty freaking tired of all the arguments. I've already got a mostly full schedule. So I'm not really in the mood to show my arguments again, only to get into yet another argument over them. I really don't want to by this point.

 

[Phoenks]

Fair.

 

[Antvasima]

I was asked to close this thread: https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/4117843