KT's Adventure Time Revisions Part 12: Escape The Citadel Revision

[Damage3245]

Hunson Abadeer is a cosmic entity who has existed since forever

I feel he would know…

I don't know how you want me to respond to this.

I can't argue against feelings.

Also Orgalorg is a monster that also predates all of existence.

Not an AP/Durability feat.

Like he literally existed before nothingness…

Not an AP/Durability feat.

He’s definitely above the Citadel Guardians who can’t even contain the Lich

He's "definitely above" them based on what?

Also those Citadel Guardians can just null the random pyramid robot with them crystals

Not an AP feat.

the same ones the Lich can destroy with ease…

Finn & Jake destroyed them too. The crystals have no durability feats.

I don’t see the problem here. Orgalorg is literally called the World Breaker

That's an impressive title but it isn't necessarily 5-A.

And technically the Lich’s hand scales above New Death, who can obliterate entire Dead Worlds, which at bare minimum, are definitely planet sized

I don't remember the Lich's hand doing anything to scale above New Death. He manipulated him but he never compared their strength against each other.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

It's not a trick question, I want to make sure that we're on the same page.

It's different from the current profiles only in that the Citadel Guardians have been removed from the equation.

The entire scaling chain depends on the Evil Cosmic Robot's Attack Potency being considered equal/comparable to Orgalorg's Striking Strength/Durability via this scan from the Encyclopedia.

@Ultima_Reality @Sir_Ovens @DemonGodMitchAubin @DarkDragonMedeus @UchihaSlayer96 @Elizhaa @LordGriffin1000

Does the above scan look sufficient for scaling Orgalorg (Gunter) to the calc?

My issues with it currently is that the character who the statement is sourced to (Hunson Abadeer) hasn't shown any awareness of the existence of the character who made it, the statement itself doesn't appear to be for raw power in the first place, and none of the characters in the existing top tier scaling chain have any 5-A feats themselves or seemingly anything close to it. The Evil Cosmic Robot, to me, appears to be a character unrelated to the main cast's powerscaling and we'd be better off scaling the characters more directly from their own feats and scaling instead of this one-time display of 5-A AP from a character that nobody interacts with.

Just to make sure, the part of the scan that I'm suppose to be looking at is the penguin? The one that just says he's the most incredible evil creature? Because that statement doesn't sit right with me unless one's evilness dictates power in the verse?

 

[Damage3245]

Just to make sure, the part of the scan that I'm suppose to be looking at is the penguin? The one that just says he's the most incredible evil creature? Because that statement doesn't sit right with me unless one's evilness dictates power in the verse?

Yeah. Gunter the penguin is Orgalorg after the Earth's gravity has compressed his body down into the shape of a penguin.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I've been asked to comment here, so I'll do my best to drop my opinion based on what has been said in this thread. However, please keep in mind I am in no way knowledgeable on AT scaling, and am merely commenting on the arguments presented here regardless of which side is truly correct or not.

The "second most powerful" whatever in the universe statement seems valid to me. In a vacuum I do believe that "most powerful" refers to AP, and if the context supports that statement being in reference to a characters AP, then by all means go for it. Also, regarding if it'd apply to striking strength, if the character in question fights physically a lot, I believe you can make a high probability claim for that being the case. All in all, that statement seems valid from what I've seen in this thread. However, it seems the Gunter/Orgalorg stuff is where the majority of the contentions arise.

I see where both sides of the argument bring up valid points. On the supporting side, I do believe the notion of Orgalorg being a "world breaker" is rather nice support for the notion of him scaling to these other world busting entities. Especially if Gunter is hyped up as this extremely threatening presence who can hang and tussle with other extremely powerful entities.

On the opposing side however, I can understand where the lack of specific/concrete showings/statements warrant a due degree of skepticism and doubt. Because, in a vacuum, I share that same skepticism about using statements talking about formidable or unmatched vileness/evil to be used as concrete justifications for stat scaling. Especially when the big feats we have are with non-physical related attacks, aka big laser.

What I propose is that the supporting side, goes through and snags a bunch of episode references (doesn't need to be scans, that's kind of a lot to do) of said characters being portrayed as these domineering top entity level beings. This way we can help prevent any of the guessing games and interpretations battles from dragging things out too much. Additionally, if that supporting evidence is substantial enough, I believe that in the lack of a direct statement/feat of scaling that a likely/possibly rating would be more than valid in this case. This way that reasonable doubt can be captured in the ratings, but not to the point of completely ignoring the valid probability of the opposing side.

TLDR; based on what I've seen, assuming what everyone says is true (since I'm not going to go through AT, I'm going to just take your word for it), I believe partial ratings are fair in this situation.

 

[Deceived3596]

TLDR; based on what I've seen, assuming what everyone says is true (since I'm not going to go through AT, I'm going to just take your word for it), I believe partial ratings are fair in this situation.

 

[Nierre]

Arc, Decieved, and Damage in the same thread, we gotta get DT in here.

Get this thread packed up

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

I mean the Lich burns off a seal that can hold New Death in place

He also fully possessed him, he should scale

Finn also tanked the destruction of a Deadworld

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Arc, Decieved, and Damage in the same thread, we gotta get DT in here.

Get this thread packed up

You're a Z tier meat rider

 

[Nierre]

You're a Z tier meat rider

U got that triple D in yo mouf sharrap

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

U got that triple D in yo mouf sharrap

@Damage3245 Nierre is derailing

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Actually Finn and Jake just actively beat up New Death with a stick

 

[KingTempest]

Actually Finn and Jake just actively beat up New Death with a stick

The stick of all time

 

[Ayewale]

This is what the Lich said after he literally stretched to every universe in existence.
Abadeer is from that same place.
Abadeer existed prior to the multiverse. It still goes there.

What? This literally doesn't make any sense. The Lich's hand falling into other universes (by complete accident) doesn't mean that the Lich pre-dates the existence of the entire multiverse.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Mitch makes sense to me.

 

[KingTempest]

What? This literally doesn't make any sense. The Lich's hand falling into other universes (by complete accident) doesn't mean that the Lich pre-dates the existence of the entire multiverse.

Nobody said that

I said that he knew of the entire multiverse since he was split throughout the entire thing
Then he said "before there was anything".

A dude who is in literally every multiverse saying "before there was time, before there was anything" means "before the multiverse"

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

With the new arguments, I gotta say I'm still in agreement with Tempest and Mitch here.

 

[Damage3245]

I mean the Lich burns off a seal that can hold New Death in place

Not an AP feat.

He also fully possessed him, he should scale

Not an AP feat.

Finn also tanked the destruction of a Deadworld

Okay, cool, Finn's also dead at the time so I'm not sure how great this is for scaling and has nothing to do with the original question I asked.

Actually Finn and Jake just actively beat up New Death with a stick

Great, this is still irrelevant to the main topic going on here. The question was not "Should anyone at all ever scale to 5-A?"

Mitch makes sense to me.

Mitch is arguing about things that don't seem relevant to the topic at hand, so can I ask you DDM to actually address the points that I raised specifically?

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

It's not a trick question, I want to make sure that we're on the same page.

It's different from the current profiles only in that the Citadel Guardians have been removed from the equation.

The entire scaling chain depends on the Evil Cosmic Robot's Attack Potency being considered equal/comparable to Orgalorg's Striking Strength/Durability via this scan from the Encyclopedia.

@Ultima_Reality @Sir_Ovens @DemonGodMitchAubin @DarkDragonMedeus @UchihaSlayer96 @Elizhaa @LordGriffin1000

Does the above scan look sufficient for scaling Orgalorg (Gunter) to the calc?

My issues with it currently is that the character who the statement is sourced to (Hunson Abadeer) hasn't shown any awareness of the existence of the character who made it, the statement itself doesn't appear to be for raw power in the first place, and none of the characters in the existing top tier scaling chain have any 5-A feats themselves or seemingly anything close to it. The Evil Cosmic Robot, to me, appears to be a character unrelated to the main cast's powerscaling and we'd be better off scaling the characters more directly from their own feats and scaling instead of this one-time display of 5-A AP from a character that nobody interacts with.

After reading through the thread, I find myself agreeing with Arc's take and leaning towards a more neutral stance. I sort of see both sides' points on this, but I am not very knowledgeable on AT tbf.

 

[Duedate8898]

I do lean more towards Damage's side, without other feats and stuff to help put the physicals of these cosmic characters on the same level since most don't really seem to rely on their physicals to be the threats that they are.

 

[ByAsura]

Admittedly, I haven't rewatched anything beyond Distant Lands for some time, so I could easily be missing something.

While I think the thread is accurate (especially since, IIRC, Lich wouldn't have been at full power when he took down the Citadel) and Abadeer knows about the Citadel, I don't see quite enough evidence here for a solid rating.

 

[Damage3245]

Thank you for the evaluations.

 

[KingTempest]

From what I see

Agree: KT, Lephyr, Mitch, DDM, ByAsura (not solid)
Disagree: Damage, Duedate
Neutral: US

Seems like the consensus is to let it rock

 

[Damage3245]

I'll get some more staff input for this.

@LordGriffin1000 Can you clarify if you agree with me? Your earlier post on the thread seemed to indicate that but it didn't look like a solid vote.

 

[KingTempest]

He was skeptical if the Penguin was the evil creature. Probably cause he's ignorant of the fact that Gunter is Orgalorg. That isn't an agreement on a wide downgrade

Plus you don't need more. This has been up for like 3 weeks and we got 7 staff

 

[Damage3245]

He was skeptical if the Penguin was the evil creature. Probably cause he's ignorant of the fact that Gunter is Orgalorg. That isn't an agreement on a wide downgrade

I know. I want him to come back to the thread and share his thoughts in more detail.

 

[KLOL506]

@Marvel_Champion_07 @Planck69 @Theglassman12 @Emirp sumitpo @UchihaSlayer96 @LephyrTheRevanchist @LordTracer @DemonGodMitchAubin @Lonkitt @Dereck03 @Elizhaa @Maverick_Zero_X @Just_a_Random_Butler @LordGriffin1000 Your opinion here would be appreciated.

EDIT: WHOOPS, tagged OP in his own thread, sorry.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Bro tagged KT in his own thread

 

[KingTempest]

The tag of all time

 

[KLOL506]

Bro tagged KT in his own thread

And he didn't even receive it. The shock and horror.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

I'll get some more staff input for this.

@LordGriffin1000 Can you clarify if you agree with me? Your earlier post on the thread seemed to indicate that but it didn't look like a solid vote.

My apologies for not being clear. I was agreeing with you regarding the wording of that specific scan not being likely being referenced to ap.

 

[Galvino]

I agree with the scan not inherently talking about ap but I also agree Orgalorg should scale to around planet level due to his name as World Breaker. The planet buster robot's existence already proves there's beings that can break worlds causally, so Orgalorg's World Breaker title sounds likely to be literal.

 

[Damage3245]

My apologies for not being clear. I was agreeing with you regarding the wording of that specific scan not being likely being referenced to ap.

Okay, thanks for responding.

 

[DontTalkDT]

I would agree that the evaluation of Gunter in this scan should not be viewed as a scaling of power given the likely context.
I would also agree that this scan's statement regarding the second most powerful entity should not be applied to people the writer is not proven to have knowledge of. The writing there does seem very subjective, and is of course not by the narrator, so I don't think it's meant to be interpreted as objective fact.
And generally, the distinction between non-physical AP and SS should be considered.

 

[Damage3245]

Thanks for commenting.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I would agree that the evaluation of Gunter in this scan should not be viewed as a scaling of power given the likely context.
I would also agree that this scan's statement regarding the second most powerful entity should not be applied to people the writer is not proven to have knowledge of. The writing there does seem very subjective, and is of course not by the narrator, so I don't think it's meant to be interpreted as objective fact.
And generally, the distinction between non-physical AP and SS should be considered.

I also agree with this with further evaluation and discussions in PMs.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I also agree with this with further evaluation and discussions in PMs.

Same.

 

[Damage3245]

I also agree with this with further evaluation and discussions in PMs.

Same.

Thank you both for commenting.

 

[KingTempest]

Smh

So I'm assuming that the thread's just gonna continue like above

 

[Damage3245]

I don't know how the thread will continue but right now the majority of staff seem to be in favour of removing the current 5-A scaling.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

I also agree with this with further evaluation and discussions in PMs.

So instead of discussing here, where people can debate, give greater context and support for their side, you went the sneaky sneaky route instead, cutting any amount of discussion entirely

Not suspicious at all