Kuma Pad Cannon

[KingTempest]

https://media.**********.net/attachments/863171196035661834/872578113958187068/Screen_Shot_2021-08-04_at_4.33.49_PM.png
https://media.**********.net/attachments/863171196035661834/872578179007660042/0484-011.png?width=678&height=1071https://media.**********.net/attachments/863171196035661834/872578212234936420/0484-011.png?width=712&height=1069

Why is this not accepted as Light Speed?

 

[AlexSoloVaAlFuturo]

 

[ZoroNotZolo]

Does it meet all the standards?

 

[azontr]

Does it meet all the standards?

It's air, not light, lol

 

[KingTempest]

Does it meet all the standards?

Only light needs standards.

Anything with a statement of light speed is lightspeed regardless of headcanon

 

[ZoroNotZolo]

It's air, not light, lol

Right, I forgot. But yeah, he'd be propelling the air at light speed, so it should be SoL.

 

[Nierre]

Following

 

[Purgy]

I agree with this as I've expressed in the past, no idea why it's not used.

 

[azontr]

But in all seriousness, I agree. Dunno why it isn't accepted.

 

[Ryuga21]

I believe SoL is the initial velocity of the reflected air, no?

Btw, can the KE of pad ho be calculed?

 

[theultimate5105]

Deflected at the speed of light then forms a shockwave so the shockwave isn't stated to be LS

 

[KingTempest]

I believe SoL is the initial velocity of the reflected air, no?

Says nothing about that tbh

Btw, can the KE of pad ho be calculed?

If it has mass and if it decelerates, then maybe

Deflected at the speed of light then forms a shockwave so the shockwave isn't stated to be LS

This don't even make sense
Deflecting as the speed of light is not a thing, because you're implying that it deflected in a specific timeframe. Speed isn't a timeframe.
If it is SoL that means that it moves at SoL

 

[USklaverei]

When I get home I'll give my thoughts because this isn't lightspeed

 

[theultimate5105]

This don't even make sense
Deflecting as the speed of light is not a thing, because you're implying that it deflected in a specific timeframe. Speed isn't a timeframe.
If it is SoL that means that it moves at SoL

Yes it is a thing the original deflection is the speed of light which forms a shockwave afterwards

 

[Eminiteable]

Agree with this.

This don't even make sense
Deflecting as the speed of light is not a thing, because you're implying that it deflected in a specific timeframe. Speed isn't a timeframe.
If it is SoL that means that it moves at SoL

Agree with Tempest's reasoning, the air itself is being deflected at the speed of light making it into a canon instead of just regular air, that's what's being said.

 

[StrawHatArslan]

agreed

 

[azontr]

Deflecting air has always sounded confusing to me. I know what it means, but I think It'd make more sense to say he's propelling the air lol

 

[KingTempest]

Yes it is a thing the original deflection is the speed of light which forms a shockwave afterwards

So what is the original object that is being deflected

 

[Damage3245]

The air itself is deflected at lightspeed to form the projectile, but the projectile itself isn't accepted as moving that fast. Nothing else Kuma reflects has been shown to physically move at lightspeed, and as it travels through air it would encounter friction that could slow it down further which could be an issue.

It's also been shown to reacted to and dodged by characters substantially slower than that which would create consistency problems. (Luffy and numerous other Supernovas can do nothing at all to react to lightspeed, but a half-dead Zoro could evade these shockwaves)

 

[Eminiteable]

The air itself is deflected at lightspeed to form the projectile, but the projectile itself isn't accepted as moving that fast. Nothing else Kuma reflects has been shown to physically move at lightspeed, and as it travels through air it would encounter friction that could slow it down further which could be an issue.

Kuma doesn't state anything else he reflects moves at light speed though, he only states that his air pad moves that fast.

It's also been shown to reacted to and dodged by characters substantially slower than that which would create consistency problems. (Luffy and numerous other Supernovas can do nothing at all to react to lightspeed, but a half-dead Zoro could evade these shockwaves)

No one else but Zoro could evade these pad canons and he proceeded to evade light later on

 

[Damage3245]

Kuma doesn't state anything else he reflects moves at light speed though, he only states that his air pad moves that fast.

Fair.

 

[KingTempest]

The air itself is deflected at lightspeed to form the projectile, but the projectile itself isn't accepted as moving that fast.

That's the point of the thread

Nothing else Kuma reflects has been shown to physically move at lightspeed,

Himself, which blitzed Kizaru and Rayleigh.
The strawhats, which nobody including the god tiers could see.

and as it travels through air it would encounter friction that could slow it down further which could be an issue.

This logic can work with literally everything in fiction.

It's also been shown to reacted to and dodged by characters substantially slower than that which would create consistency problems. (Luffy and numerous other Supernovas can do nothing at all to react to lightspeed, but a half-dead Zoro could evade these shockwaves)

You mean the Zoro who reacted to a lightspeed laser right after?

 

[Damage3245]

You mean the Zoro who reacted to a lightspeed laser right after?

Yeah. I don't think that Zoro is massively faster than Gear 2 Luffy and the other Supernova.

Himself, which blitzed Kizaru and Rayleigh.

Appearing next to them while they're in the middle of combat and focused on each other doesn't really count as blitzing them IMO.

The strawhats, which nobody including the god tiers could see.

We know they didn't move at lightspeed because it took Luffy days to reach Amazon Lily.

 

[Eminiteable]

Yeah. I don't think that Zoro is massively faster than Gear 2 Luffy and the other Supernova.

A still injured Zoro in sabaody was shown around as fast as gear second

 

[KingTempest]

Yeah. I don't think that Zoro is massively faster than Gear 2 Luffy and the other Supernova.

Who says they can't just scale?
What stops Zoro from even being up there? It's not like it's FTL

Appearing next to them while they're in the middle of combat and focused on each other doesn't really count as blitzing them IMO.

You mean appearing next to a proficient kenbun user doesn't count as blitzing?

We know they didn't move at lightspeed because it took Luffy days to reach Amazon Lily.

Outlier travel speed feat

 

[theultimate5105]

Outlier travel speed feat

Statements of the same timeframe multiple other times and the other straw hats reached their islands in days as well

So what is the original object that is being deflected

Air which is reflected at LS then forms an shockwave afterwards

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

I think it stands to reason that if the air is being reflected at the speed of light and the Pad Cannons are the air that is being reflected at the speed of light, then the Pad Cannons would be light speed

But that's just how I interpret that statement

 

[KingTempest]

Statements of the same timeframe multiple other times and the other straw hats reached their islands in days as well

This doesn't stop it from being an outlier travel speed feat for a distance

Air which is reflected at LS then forms an shockwave afterwards

"Reflected at LS then forms a shockwave" the air is literally the shockwave at that point.

 

[Eminiteable]

Statements of the same timeframe multiple other times and the other straw hats reached their islands in days as well

I'm unsure why a discussion about everything Kuma repels not being light speed is being argued as an anti feat, when the statement only applies to the Pad Canon.

 

[KingTempest]

"Enel's lightning isn't lightning speed, his spit doesn't move at lightning speed"

This is the logic I'm seeing.

 

[Damage3245]

I just think the statement isn't as explicit as "Kuma's air attacks = lightspeed".

He says the air pressure is deflect at lightspeed, and this is what creates the piercing shockwave - but the piercing shockwave itself isn't necessarily moving at the speed of light.

EDIT: Sorry if you think I'm being overly strict with this, but I just don't think the statement is that explicit.

 

[PrinceofPein]

You can take this as an antifeat or outlier it is one of the two, but zoro dodged the said air cannons after they were released, a MHS+ wont be able to do that if they are LS

 

[Eminiteable]

I just think the statement isn't as explicit as "Kuma's air attacks = lightspeed".

He says the air pressure is deflect at lightspeed, and this is what creates the piercing shockwave - but the piercing shockwave itself isn't necessarily moving at the speed of light.

What this implies to me that it's the shockwave itself is moving at light speed:

1. "The air, deflected at the speed of light forms a powerful shockwave" the air being deflected at those speeds is what makes the speed of the shockwave as the shockwave is just the air.

 

[KingTempest]

EDIT: Sorry if you think I'm being overly strict with this, but I just don't think the statement is that explicit.

Nah your concern is valid

I just think the statement isn't as explicit as "Kuma's air attacks = lightspeed".

He says the air pressure is deflect at lightspeed, and this is what creates the piercing shockwave - but the piercing shockwave itself isn't necessarily moving at the speed of light.

In OP for some weird ridiculous random reason, air and shockwaves are relative.
Ursus Shock uses the same exact devil fruit and the same exact air and it follows the same exact theme as the pad cannon.
They saw the paw and they called it air.

The air pressure is being moved at lightspeed.

You can take this as an antifeat or outlier it is one of the two, but zoro dodged the said air cannons after they were released, a MHS+ wont be able to do that if they are LS

Stop using the wiki's values for characters as antifeats as if they can't change

 

[theultimate5105]

This doesn't stop it from being an outlier travel speed feat for a distance

Outlier statements and Multiple Outlier Travel speed feats vs 1 statement yeah seems legit

"Reflected at LS then forms a shockwave" the air is literally the shockwave at that point.

Not how I read it. I read it is as Reflects the air at LS which creates a shockwave so, the shockwave is created by the LS reflection but isn't LS itself
also minor nitpick the scan and the text box are different

 

[PrinceofPein]

Stop using the wiki's values for characters as antifeats as if they can't change

It is not Wiki's values, zoro in that arc is no where near ftl, so it is either that the cannons are not LS or it is an Outlier feat for zoro (this is for those that is planning on making an upgrade based on this later on if it gets accepted).
Anyway i am neutral

 

[Eminiteable]

Outlier statements and Multiple Outlier Travel speed feats vs 1 statement yeah seems legit

I'm unsure why a discussion about everything Kuma repels not being light speed is being argued as an anti feat, when the statement only applies to the Pad Canon.

read

 

[KingTempest]

It is not Wiki's values, zoro in that arc is no where near ftl, so it is either that the cannons are not LS or it is an Outlier feat for zoro

No one in this thread implied he's FTL. I don't even think there's an accepted calc of him dodging this that gets FTL
Definitely not an outlier feat but w/e

 

[theultimate5105]

read

They are the same repelling ability there is no reason for them to be drastically different in speed especially when they are both pushing solid matter His pad cannons are never stated to be much faster then his other attacks

 

[KingTempest]

They are the same repelling ability there is no reason for them to be drastically different in speed especially when they are both pushing solid matter

Because the weight and material of the matter are 2 different things