Kumoko vs Rimuru Tempest

[Overlord775]

God Kumoko vs Light Novel Rimuru

Reincarnation Isekai Protagonists Battle

Speed Equalized

Spider: 0

Slime: 0

Inconclusive: 0

 

[DontTalkDT]

If I see it correctly LN Rimuru's wincon in Predation.

The two questions are if Kumoko couldn't just teleport out after being consumed and if Rimuru has a way of following her into pocket dimensions and different solar systems.

 

[Overlord775]

No, you can't teleport out of Rimuru's stomach

also he would copy all her abilities if he eats her

 

[Everything12]

This version of Rimuru definitely can't travel across solar systems nor Pocket Dimensions if I'm not wrong.

 

[DontTalkDT]

He would have to analyze them first which would take... long, but that's besides the point.

Either way, leaves the question whether Rimuru can follow her into pocket dimensions and different solar systems.

Edit: If he can't follow Kumoko, she probably just wins via My Home strategie.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Rimuru's stomach is actually a metaphysical space.

But yea at this stage he has no way of going to pocket dimensions and solar system, he has spatial motion to teleport to places he has been before but that's about it.

 

[Overlord775]

@Donttalk

Kumono sends clones to fight

Rimuru eats clones

now he can reach her

 

[Rocker1189]

Do her clones have her full abilities? iirc they only have a few abilities and not everything she has.

Also I have said this before but I think that Kumoko's 7-A rating is quite a bit lower than she should be.

 

[DontTalkDT]

@Donttalk
Kumono sends clones to fight

Rimuru eats clones

now he can reach her

That he gets to eat the clones is already difficult, considering spatial gaps etc. She doesn't just recklessly sends them in to die or anything.

That aside everything Kumoko creates can't be appraised, meaning the clone has resistance on the analysis attempt.

To that comes that he has to master the space magic to a degree as high as Kumoko, who has an extraordinary talent for that branch of magic, otherwise her spatial obstruction will stop him.

And then god magic (magecraft) isn't something you simply learn as well. The fact that Kumoko, who can copy magic at a glance, required lots of clones working on it for a long time to master these spells is testament to that. We are talking about magic outside of the skill system after all.

 

[Rocker1189]

@DontTalkDT

I don tthink it matters how hard it is to learn them tbh, if someone has an abilitiy and Rimuru absorbs them, then he gets the same abilities. It is op but it is what it is.

 

[DontTalkDT]

@DontTalkDT
I don tthink it matters how hard it is to learn them tbh, if someone has an abilitiy and Rimuru absorbs them, then he gets the same abilities. It is op but it is what it is.

"Mimicry: Reproduces the form and Skills of absorbed targets. Only available once the target has been Analyzed."


Most stuff is instantly analyzed, but not all. E.g. the prison spell that held Veldora and of course Veldora's own abilities took ages to be completly analyzed after being swallowed.

 

[Overlord775]

Both the prison and Veldora are high 4-C tho

 

[DontTalkDT]

Both the prison and Veldora are high 4-C tho

The point was that things need to be analyzed.


Edit: btw. couldn't a clone in principle rewrite the stomach into Kumoko's zone as well?

 

[Rocker1189]

aah right I see what you mean, mb.

btw DT about the 7-A rating, the laser went into space right?

shouldnt the rating be higher then?

 

[DontTalkDT]

aah right I see what you mean, mb.

btw DT about the 7-A rating, the laser went into space right?

shouldnt the rating be higher then?

I don't see the correlation between range and AP.

Lesser enemies can do this

While I was making all those preliminary arrangements, a corner of the triangular pyramid begins to glow. It's a **** Motion Gun, huh? Yup, it's a **** Motion Gun! As I had expected, a moment later that light was fired at me as a heavy laser beam. Yeah yeah, it's death chute from another dimension time. Okay then, right back at you! The heavy laser beam heading towards me is swallowed up by the gate to another dimension that appears in front me. Then, that laser exits from the gate that appeared beside the first one, and is fired at the triangular pyramid. Anyone who can make use of other dimensions would think of this, right! To transfer a long distance attack via dimensions and to return it on the opponent! The laser that the triangular pyramid itself fired hits itself. But, I guess it's to be expected, as it seems that the triangular pyramid had a barrier up, and the laser is repelled in a dazzling flash of light. I guess that would probably be a barrier that combined a magecraft jamming field with reflection, huh? The laser is repelled by the barrier and scattered into shards in all directions. Then on impact, those shards are annihilated. ……That was way too powerful. What the heck? At the point of impact the ground itself vanished, okay? Rather than making a crater, it made a hole instead. Are you physically trying to wreck this planet? I thought it was a **** Motion Gun, but it was the **ath Star's super laser. Just how much energy was wasted by that one shot?

Which is somewhat indicative of planet level, but I'm reluctant to taking that as reliable evidence.

 

[Rocker1189]

@DontTalkDT well I thought that it would mean that the laser would havw done much more if it was aimed elsewhere.

hmm yeah that is pretty vague.

 

[Overlord775]

bump

 

[NeoSuperior]

Rimuru's analysis should work. Remember that pseudo-game-System in Kumoverse is somewhere between Low 5-B and 5-A. On the other hand the system of Slimeverse is straight up 2-C. They absolutely cannot be equalized.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Voting Rimuru.

 

[WHYNAUT]

For a vote to be counted you need to give your reasoning or refer to someone else's arguments.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Could've sworn I put FRA.

Once one of her quotes are eaten, he'll know basically everything she can do.

 

[NeoSuperior]

This match-up seems to be quite difficult to evaluate due to the differences in the verses.

As I mentioned earlier, the "system" of Kumoverse is only Low 5-B to 5-A at most, while the "system" of slimeverse is straight up 2-C.

Also this key of Rimuru is going to get an upgrade soon.

By the way, is that a composite key of WN and LN for Kumo? Don't you have to split it up at some point? The differences for the archne parts seem great enough to warrant that IMO.

 

[WHYNAUT]

Why are the systems of the verses important in this match?

 

[NeoSuperior]

Because of damage types and information analysis. IIRC in kumoverse the damage types are just "simulated", e.g. a corrosion attack works on someone because the system compares the potency of the "corrosion attack" with the resistances of the target and the target takes damage based on the calculation, but strictly speaking the corrosion attack is physically not really corrosion. And said system is, as far as we know, only operating on that one planet and not any further. Or something along those lines.

Now the key of Kumo used here "broke through" her system, absorbed the part of it that she claimed into herself completely and has become independent from it, becoming a "god" in the process. However it's hard to say what her current powers are based on (or at least I don't remember).

The "system" in slimeverse even reaches our earth, but the powers it bestows are "real" and actually affect the laws of physics and such, though there is a difference between magic-type attack that operate on magicules (basically magic-molecules) and physical-type attacks based on regular molecules, as well as spirits/elementals. Though Rimuru's Unique Skill managed to "hack" the "system" within 90 or so days to use it's voice function to be able to speak to Rimuru (the skill improved considerably ever since then). If the part of the lore from the WN still applies in the LN, then that system itself seems strong enough to take power away from its own creator dragon god, who is a 2-C being, though.

Really, I don't know how to handle this battle. I don't know how to even begin applying the verse equalization here.

Not to mention this key of Rimuru is about to get an upgrade as well (hax-wise, probably not AP-wise again since he already got upgraded to "At least High 7-A" recently).

 

[Jaw201]

Shiraori can win via BFR, IIRC Rimuru (even post harvest festival) has no way to escape seperate dimensions. Rimuru doesn't have a method to kill Shiraori or BFR her long enough to win (For example, Rimuru analyizes Shiraori and learns that coffee makes her fall asleep, he could use that information, but I don't see how he can act on it.) And if Rimuru is able to seal Shiraori, then she can just teleport out (since she has been able to teleport into and out of pocket dimensions). Rimuru has no win conditions here since Shiraori just negates it by teleporting out of Stomach, so Kumoko/Shiraori Stomps. [Overzealous, changed to, Shiraori Wins via BFR]

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

The walpurgis banquet takes place in another dimension,, and even valentine or whatever his name is who was standing in for ruminas could telport from there back to the world or whatever.

Rimuru can also prevent Shiraori from teleporting away with the Anti-Magic Area which rewrites the laws of the world to prevent the use of abilities.

And Shiraori isn't telporting out of Rimuru's stomach post-harvest festival considering his stomach has Chloe's infinite prison same thing that sealed Veldora and puts the target in an infinite amount of imaginary spaces that prevent interference inside and outside.

Regardless, Rimuru has gone through revisions, so not even sure this is still valid, at the very least it has to be specified which version of Rimuru is being used.

 

[Jaw201]

The walpurgis banquet takes place in another dimension,, and even valentine or whatever his name is who was standing in for ruminas could telport from there back to the world or whatever.
Rimuru can also prevent Shiraori from teleporting away with the Anti-Magic Area which rewrites the laws of the world to prevent the use of abilities.

And Shiraori isn't telporting out of Rimuru's stomach post-harvest festival considering his stomach has Chloe's infinite prison same thing that sealed Veldora and puts the target in an infinite amount of imaginary spaces that prevent interference inside and outside.

Regardless, Rimuru has gone through revisions, so not even sure this is still valid, at the very least it has to be specified which version of Rimuru is being used.

Isn't the reason why they can teleport there because of a ring that most demon lords have? I could have sworn that Rimuru didn't have the ability to teleport into Pocket Dimensions / Realities until he was a psuedo True Dragon in the WN.

Anti-Magic Area rewrites the laws of the world to remove magicules (and Shiraori's magic works off of a completely different principal, so a new skill would need to be made, [This may need to be equalized]) from the area it encompasses, but Shiraori already knows of ways to counter methods that disable Magecraft and can use magecraft without limits in those situations. (Magecraft is very similar to the Primitive/Original magic in the web novel, in which it can be used in situations that normal magicule based magic cannot although in Shiraori's case it is still affected by anti magic fields, but if the user knows how to counter it, they can still use magic or rather, Magecraft.)

I don't believe Veldora had any teleportation magic though when he was sealed. Is there any example of a target teleporting out, in universe? Because Dimensional Magecraft allows the user to open portals to their own pocket dimensions, and places where they would want to go, hence it doesn't interfere with the barrier.

Shiraori also has a similar equivalent to a soul corridor where she can just transfer her soul to a completely different body (and keep all of her memories, etc) and return to battle.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

The ring is only said to allow communication between demon lord's. The wn is different from the ln so shouldn't be used as an example.

Don't see any power null resistance on her profile but yea might be an issue of verse equalization.

Veldora having teleportation is pretty irrelevant, the question is whether Shiraori has shown feats of escaping from an infinite amount of imaginary spaces.

And if she can't get out, Rimuru gains all her abilities so switching to other bodies doesn't really help, though idk about her transfer to other bodies while being sealed in an infinite amount of imaginary spaces, and absorbed into Rimuru.

 

[Jaw201]

It should be noted that in the Web Novel, Shiraori was shown to be able to take control over a pocket dimension that was claimed to be infinite in size [The actual size was not stated, however there is nothing to suggest that she wouldn't be able to take over a small portion(which she can do) to use that to escape.]

 

[NeoSuperior]

What was that pocket dimension part of though? Was it part of the (maximum) Tier 5-A system that mostly operates on "simulating" laws to the point that anyone outside it wouldn't really be all that much affected by it?

 

[Jaw201]

What was that pocket dimension part of though? Was it part of the (maximum) Tier 5-A system that mostly operates on "simulating" laws to the point that anyone outside it wouldn't really be all that much affected by it?

Its during her battle with another Administrator. She knows its an infinite space, but it described her slowly gaining control of it. (It was a dimension made from Magecraft designed to absorb all of the energy expended during their fight.)

"With a rustling sound, many white spiders come crawling out from the shadow beneath me. Many, many spiders. As if they are wearing away space itself, the white spiders warp the zone wherever they come out."

"The white spiders that had scattered in all directions begin to summon other white spiders, and those white spiders summon even more white spiders. The white spiders increase in numbers geometrically. "

"In a battle between two users of space magecraft, it's like a battle to secure territory. Expand your own zone, or protect against your opponent expanding their own zone. Right now, my clones in the white spiders are blotting out Kuro's zone at a terrific rate, converting it to my zone."


(The white spiders are spiders that create more spiders, so there are exponentially more spiders)

 

[OpMasada]

I don't remember Gyurie's space being infinite, citation?

 

[DontTalkDT]

I don't think it was. Then again whether the size of a pocket dimension influences the ability to teleport in and out of it is debatable.

 

[Overlord775]

The clones eaten wouldn't even reach the immaginary space as they would be breaken down to their componets before being analyzed

 

[DontTalkDT]

Gods are souls. So unless that technique destroys their souls, they do.

 

[Overlord775]

Spiritual creatures are souls too and Rimuru can eat them

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

So we are just not gonna specify which version of Rimuru is being used? Cool, Rimuru is at his strongest then.

Rimuru literally ate clayman's soul, he can also eat space too.

 

[OpMasada]

This match was made before Rimuru's new key was added.