Let's fix some problems and see if it's true | Diamondhead's tier revision (Ben 10)

[GeneralSol16]

Hi, recently Ben 10 has been upgraded to Tier 4, and with that, some characters scale to 4-B and 4-B, but there are some characters that don't and should do it, and today, I'll focus on one that does it, imo, In a very consistent way.

Duamondhead ​

Currently, Ben's Petrosoaien form scales to " [4°B] Solar System level (Fought on par with Omega-1 Nanite Rex Salazar. Defeated Vilgax). It looks good, right? Well, there's some layers on it that should be revised.

Diamondhead has two main ways of fighting: physically and usuikg his constructs, and we've seen throughout the show that they varie between each other.

Physically, Diamondhead is able to keep up with Generator Rex, who as seen here too, is comparable to Base Size Humungousaur.


This is rather consistent, as we see how Colossus Kevin heat Albedo as Diamondhead in a physical confrontation, leaving him on the floor with some moves.


This is rather consistent, as seen when that same Kevin destroyed a robot that was copying Ben as Humungousaur.

That same robot was shown to be comparable to the real Humungousaur, so no doubt on this.
[8:50]
So, Kevin superiority against Duamondhead makes sense, as DH is comparable to Base Haaur, and Kevin nulled them both.

Ffollowing everything, Warlord Vilgax directly stomped both Colossus Kevin and Gwen at the same time, showing how much superiority he has over them.


Which is consistent with how Vilgax overpowered Full Size Humungousaur and no sold neuroshocks from Jetray.
https://youtu.be/7Y4zODKvtbk?feature=shared

But, as seen in the first Albedo vs Kevin fight, and in this next one, Ben was able to stomp both adversaries, with him one shoting Kevin and quickly overpowering Vilgax, how? Well, he just used his Crystal Constructs.
https://youtu.be/Hf231P2dJYY?feature=shared
https://youtu.be/sF-gsaJ-R3o?si=BMYh_0taAPgLo5hI
So, Diamondhead's crystals (walls, shards, pillars, etc) will scale vasfoy above his physical strength, as he overpowered beings that well above his stats.

Summary:​

Duamondhead should be upgraded from "4-B" to "4-B physically, far higher with Crystal Constructs."

Agree:
Disagree:

Following this, we have that Diamondhead durability should be upgraded as well.

During the episode "Ultimate Sacrifice", Ben fought against his Ultimate Forms, with Diamondhead being attacked by Ultimate Echo Echo and Cannonbolt, the former producing more damage than anyone else, but that's because sonic waves are literally his weakness.

Ben VS Ultimates | Ben 10 Ultimate Alien

Ben Tennyson is trapped inside his Ultimatrix and is attacked by the ultimate aliens who have seemed to branch off of the ultimatrix and now posses an indivi...

youtu.be

By current standards, Diamondhead survived being hit by an 4-B+ attack, and even when being his literal weakness, he was just superficially cracked, just go be immmedialy rolled up by another higher into 4-B, almost 4-B+, as Ult Cannombllt is.
Later in Omniverse, Ben endured being hit by one of Ultimate Humungousaur's missiles, and although knocked down, he was enoughly fine to get up in a few moments, and wasn't visually hurt.

Ben 10 Omniverse - Ben Vs. Albedo.

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

Throughout UAF and OV, Diamondhead body has never been damaged at all, only in that specific scene liked above and when other characters breaking his comstructs, but those are not the same, since they've been shown to be less durable than his main body by straight comparison.

"But considering how Ult Haaur did a comparable level damage to Diamondhead as UEE, shouldn't that be an incolsyency? Since the latter stomped Ultimate Kevin, something that UHS couldn't do"
Yeah, not at all, and is quite simple.
Albedo used his missiles against Ben, something that he never used against Kevin, going in a physical confrontation only.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

And as seen in the series, Humungousaur's missiles are stronger than his punches, one missile directly disappeared a Humungousaur, while a punch, although one shoting him too, sealed way less damage in comparison.
And let's be honest, Albedo didn't even harm Ben that much to even have a way to compare who dealt more damage.

Summary:
Diamondhead should be upgraded from "4-B" to 4-B+" in Durability.​

Agree
Dis

agree:

General (dis)agreement:​

Agree: @Reiner04
Disagree:

​

 

[Celestial_Scaler25]

Hi, recently Ben 10 has been upgraded to Tier 4, and with that, some characters scale to 4-B and 4-B, but there are some characters that don't and should do it, and today, I'll focus on one that does it, imo, In a very consistent way.

Duamondhead ​

Currently, Ben's Petrosoaien form scales to " [4°B] Solar System level (Fought on par with Omega-1 Nanite Rex Salazar. Defeated Vilgax). It looks good, right? Well, there's some layers on it that should be revised.

Diamondhead has two main ways of fighting: physically and usuikg his constructs, and we've seen throughout the show that they varie between each other.

Physically, Diamondhead is able to keep up with Generator Rex, who as seen here too, is comparable to Base Size Humungousaur.


This is rather consistent, as we see how Colossus Kevin heat Albedo as Diamondhead in a physical confrontation, leaving him on the floor with some moves.


This is rather consistent, as seen when that same Kevin destroyed a robot that was copying Ben as Humungousaur.

That same robot was shown to be comparable to the real Humungousaur, so no doubt on this.
[8:50]
So, Kevin superiority against Duamondhead makes sense, as DH is comparable to Base Haaur, and Kevin nulled them both.

Ffollowing everything, Warlord Vilgax directly stomped both Colossus Kevin and Gwen at the same time, showing how much superiority he has over them.


Which is consistent with how Vilgax overpowered Full Size Humungousaur and no sold neuroshocks from Jetray.
https://youtu.be/7Y4zODKvtbk?feature=shared

But, as seen in the first Albedo vs Kevin fight, and in this next one, Ben was able to stomp both adversaries, with him one shoting Kevin and quickly overpowering Vilgax, how? Well, he just used his Crystal Constructs.
https://youtu.be/Hf231P2dJYY?feature=shared
https://youtu.be/sF-gsaJ-R3o?si=BMYh_0taAPgLo5hI
So, Diamondhead's crystals (walls, shards, pillars, etc) will scale vasfoy above his physical strength, as he overpowered beings that well above his stats.

Summary:​

Duamondhead should be upgraded from "4-B" to "4-B physically, far higher with Crystal Constructs."

Agree:
Disagree:

This makes sense. I agree.

Following this, we have that Diamondhead durability should be upgraded as well.

During the episode "Ultimate Sacrifice", Ben fought against his Ultimate Forms, with Diamondhead being attacked by Ultimate Echo Echo and Cannonbolt, the former producing more damage than anyone else, but that's because sonic waves are literally his weakness.

Ben VS Ultimates | Ben 10 Ultimate Alien

Ben Tennyson is trapped inside his Ultimatrix and is attacked by the ultimate aliens who have seemed to branch off of the ultimatrix and now posses an indivi...

youtu.be

By current standards, Diamondhead survived being hit by an 4-B+ attack, and even when being his literal weakness, he was just superficially cracked, just go be immmedialy rolled up by another higher into 4-B, almost 4-B+, as Ult Cannombllt is.
Later in Omniverse, Ben endured being hit by one of Ultimate Humungousaur's missiles, and although knocked down, he was enoughly fine to get up in a few moments, and wasn't visually hurt.

Ben 10 Omniverse - Ben Vs. Albedo.

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

Throughout UAF and OV, Diamondhead body has never been damaged at all, only in that specific scene liked above and when other characters breaking his comstructs, but those are not the same, since they've been shown to be less durable than his main body by straight comparison.

"But considering how Ult Haaur did a comparable level damage to Diamondhead as UEE, shouldn't that be an incolsyency? Since the latter stomped Ultimate Kevin, something that UHS couldn't do"
Yeah, not at all, and is quite simple.
Albedo used his missiles against Ben, something that he never used against Kevin, going in a physical confrontation only.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

And as seen in the series, Humungousaur's missiles are stronger than his punches, one missile directly disappeared a Humungousaur, while a punch, although one shoting him too, sealed way less damage in comparison.
And let's be honest, Albedo didn't even harm Ben that much to even have a way to compare who dealt more damage.

Summary:
Diamondhead should be upgraded from "4-B" to 4-B+" in Durability.​

Agree

Disagree:
​

Disagree. In both instances of DH fighting Ultimate Humungousaur and Ultimate Echo Echo/Ultimate Canonbolt. He was heavily injured and UEE has Durability Negation, so taking this as a durability feat is arguably an endurance feat. And in both instances Ben was transformed back into Ben, something that usually happens everytime he's knocked out, weakened, killed or generally beaten. Like when he died as Chromastone, Darkstar and Gwen weakening Humungousaur, Ultimate Waybig losing to Dagon, all the instances of Ultimate Albedo one-shoting Ben.

noalienxdowngradeforyou ​

I feel baited.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Where are the downgrades?

 

[Celestial_Scaler25]

Where are the downgrades?

noalienxdowngradeforyou ​

 

[Lort15]

Where are the downgrades?

blud is love in with downgrades

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

blud is love in with downgrades

Yeah, you will quickly find that I mainly participate in downgrades.

 

[Lort15]

Yeah, you will quickly find that I mainly participate in downgrades.

yeah, no wonder why i see you in almost every downgrade crts

 

[Hellformer]

This makes sense. I agree.

Disagree. In both instances of DH fighting Ultimate Humungousaur and Ultimate Echo Echo/Ultimate Canonbolt. He was heavily injured and UEE has Durability Negation, so taking this as a durability feat is arguably an endurance feat. And in both instances Ben was transformed back into Ben, something that usually happens everytime he's knocked out, weakened, killed or generally beaten. Like when he died as Chromastone, Darkstar and Gwen weakening Humungousaur, Ultimate Waybig losing to Dagon, all the instances of Ultimate Albedo one-shoting Ben.

I feel baited.

I share the same opinion

noalienxdowngradeforyou ​

Good one, I'll do such things in my threads as well to annoy someone

 

[GeneralSol16]

Disagree. In both instances of DH fighting Ultimate Humungousaur and Ultimate Echo Echo/Ultimate Canonbolt. He was heavily injured and UEE has Durability Negation, so taking this as a durability feat is arguably an endurance feat.

Ben was only hurt that bad against Ultimate Echo Echo, and as everyone here knows, that's only because he's extremely weak to sound based attacks. And even then, Ben was still conscious after UEE attacked him, UCB, and he wasn't one shot by UCB either, but the Ultimatrix timed out, he continued as an alien before completely falling.
The same with UHS, Ben was knocked down, not out, by the missile, you can see how in that same fight they make a difference between Ben getting directly one shotted and when he doesn't. Yo hung and Good got practically desintegraged, meanwhile, Eye Guy and Diamondhead were knocked out, but weren't immedually detramsformed to Ben.
And that's the main point, Ben wasn't detramsformed by UEE nor UHS, and even if he was heavily injured, that was because his weakness, the feat would still be there, especially since UCB didn't do any more damage to an already injures DH.

And in both instances Ben was transformed back into Ben, something that usually happens everytime he's knocked out, weakened, killed or generally beaten. Like when he died as Chromastone, Darkstar and Gwen weakening Humungousaur, Ultimate Waybig losing to Dagon, all the instances of Ultimate Albedo one-shoting Ben.

Yes, with the diffemves that he was practically knocked out immediately by all of them, here Ben endured UEE attack for various seconds and wasn't KO'd, and even was still capable of surviving a hit from Ultimate Cannombllt.
Same against Alnedo, he wasn't detramsformed, just knocked down, in that same scene you can clearly see the difefencees between when they get actually one shot to when they don't.

 

[Hellformer]

Ben was only hurt that bad against Ultimate Echo Echo, and as everyone here knows, that's only because he's extremely weak to sound based attacks. And even then, Ben was still conscious after UEE attacked him, UCB, and he wasn't one shot by UCB either, but the Ultimatrix timed out, he continued as an alien before completely falling.

Being conscious while being terribly ripped apart doesn't mean that Diamondhead's durability scales to UEE's AP otherwise Humungousaur tanking hits from his Ultimate form would also count as 4-B+ dura. Or UH tanking hit from Atomix would count as 4-A dura. Which is horrendously wrong for obvious reasons.

The same with UHS, Ben was knocked down, not out, by the missile, you can see how in that same fight they make a difference between Ben getting directly one shotted and when he doesn't. Yo hung and Good got practically desintegraged, meanwhile, Eye Guy and Diamondhead were knocked out, but weren't immedually detramsformed to Ben.

He literally did detransform

And that's the main point, Ben wasn't detramsformed by UEE nor UHS,

This is flawed logic and can be easily refuted via Humungousaur vs UH.

and even if he was heavily injured, that was because his weakness, the feat would still be there, especially since UCB didn't do any more damage to an already injures DH.

Then it's your burden to prove if he can tank such attacks or else you'll be contradicting the consistency of show.
UH's AP>DH (Factual)
UEE's AP=DH's dura (your logic)
Therefore:
UHH's AP>UEE's AP (conclusion from your logic)

Thus your logic falls apart as it contradicts the consistency of the show in multiple ways.

You can count me and Celestial_25 in disagreement

 

[GeneralSol16]

Being conscious while being terribly ripped apart doesn't mean that Diamondhead's durability scales to UEE's AP otherwise Humungousaur tanking hits from his Ultimate form would also count as 4-B+ dura. Or UH tanking hit from Atomix would count as 4-A dura. Which is horrendously wrong for obvious reasons.

Ultimate Humungousaur literally just casually slapped Ben lol, he didn't even punch him at all.

Even in that same scene, we see how none of his missiles made direct with Ben, the "explosion" itself was what knocked him out, when one missile actually collided with Haaur, they dissapear, lmao.
The same with Atomix, Ben was holding back, the same Way Big held back against them the first time, you can't just say "Hey, but this character also survived hits from this other character" without context and who did it.

He literally did detransform

There's literally a cut, Ben gets knocked down as DH, scenes changes to Max and Rook, and then we change back to Ben and Albedo, and for Ben's body language, he was just turned back that moment, but when Albedo nuke him, he wasn't.

This is flawed logic and can be easily refuted via Humungousaur vs UH.

Once again, Albedo didn't even hit Humungousaur all out the same way he did against Ben, and the missiles barrage didn't even collide with him at all, and when they did, it killed him.

Then it's your burden to prove if he can tank such attacks or else you'll be contradicting the consistency of show.
UH's AP>DH (Factual)
UEE's AP=DH's dura (your logic)
Therefore:
UHH's AP>UEE's AP (conclusion from your logic)

You just ignored everything about how the fight proceed, how there's no way to directly scale Ultimate Humungousaur and Echo Echo since they used different ways of dealing damage to Ben and Kevin, and the context of each fight.

 

[Hellformer]

Ultimate Humungousaur literally just casually slapped Ben lol, he didn't even punch him at all.

Prove that it was casual because we literally hear a brutal smash sound over here. And considering Albedo doesn't like Ben at all, it doesn't make sense for him to hold back at all even without having the intention to kill.

Even in that same scene, we see how none of his missiles made direct with Ben, the "explosion" itself was what knocked him out, when one missile actually collided with Haaur, they dissapear, lmao.

No? The starting missiles didn't hit him sure but then we see few missiles landing right on him which could knock him out

The same with Atomix, Ben was holding back, the same Way Big held back against them the first time,

Waybig held back because he wanted solve the issue and find the root of the problem which is why we see Ben surrender in the end.
The same did not happen with Atomix, so your logic is flawed.

you can't just say "Hey, but this character also survived hits from this other character" without context and who did it.

That's literally what you're doing

There's literally a cut, Ben gets knocked down as DH, scenes changes to Max and Rook, and then we change back to Ben and Albedo, and for Ben's body language, he was just turned back that moment, but when Albedo nuke him, he wasn't.

Having a cut doesn't matter when he gets one shot, as explained by the above examples, you cannot scale a certain character's dura to someone's AP especially when a character is getting horribly smashed down.

Once again, Albedo didn't even hit Humungousaur all out the same way he did against Ben, and the missiles barrage didn't even collide with him at all, and when they did, it killed him.

Replied above

You just ignored everything about how the fight proceed, how there's no way to directly scale Ultimate Humungousaur and Echo Echo since they used different ways of dealing damage to Ben and Kevin, and the context of each fight.

What exactly did I ignore? You're quite literally going against the consistency of the show without reconciling the contradiction.

 

[GeneralSol16]

Ye

Prove that it was casual because we literally hear a brutal smash sound over here. And considering Albedo doesn't like Ben at all, it doesn't make sense for him to hold back at all even without having the intention to kill.

Dude, Albedo and Vilgax wanted Ben alive so he could hand over the Omnitrix and see how they have their friends captured, they literally said it I'm the episode.

No? The starting missiles didn't hit him sure but then we see few missiles landing right on him which could knock him out.

Those missiles didn't land on him, the explosions touches him sure, but there wasn't direct contact with him the same way they did in the fight against the army, where they actually collided, they completely destroy a robot Humungousaur.

Waybig held back because he wanted solve the issue and find the root of the problem which is why we see Ben surrender in the end.
The same did not happen with Atomix, so your logic is flawed.

Atomix literally just did casual moves against him, and Ben wouldn't go all out, he doesn't kill his enemies.
Ben wanted to knock him out down, not out.

That's literally what you're doing

No, your mentions are the same as mine, with the differences that all of your examples are from holding back characters and non direct collision.

Having a cut doesn't matter when he gets one shot, as explained by the above examples, you cannot scale a certain character's dura to someone's AP especially when a character is getting horribly smashed down.

With the differences that the only reason to why he sas that hurt is because is his WEAKNESS, and even then, he was still durable enough to survive another top tier character attac

What exactly did I ignore? You're quite literally going against the consistency of the show without reconciling the contradiction.

What you ignored:

• Albedo and Ben holding back on your examples that you say are "the same as this" when they're not.
• Ignoring how the real poing is of DH surviving hits from multiple 4-B+.

 

[Hellformer]

Ye

Dude, Albedo and Vilgax wanted Ben alive so he could hand over the Omnitrix and see how they have their friends captured, they literally said it I'm the episode.

Yes they did want him alive but that does not prove that Albedo was holding back against him at all especially when we hear the brute smash sound as I've mentioned above.
An actual holding back scene would be something like Atomic-X finger flicking Vilgax away without going at full power.

Those missiles didn't land on him, the explosions touches him sure, but there wasn't direct contact with him the same way they did in the fight against the army, where they actually collided, they completely destroy a robot Humungousaur.

Sure let's assume that none of the missiles hit Humungousaur.
But then you'd have another problem:
Here UH's missiles could hit multiple Humungousaurs and right after we see few Humungousaurs above ground without being detramsformed immediately. Therefore by your logic, Base Humungausaur's dura scales to UH's AP.

Even if you somehow ignore this, Humungousaur's dura would scale to UH's AP by surviving his brutal sounded punches (as per your logic)

Atomix literally just did casual moves against him, and Ben wouldn't go all out, he doesn't kill his enemies.
Ben wanted to knock him out down, not out.

You are yet to prove what makes Atomix's punch casual

No, your mentions are the same as mine, with the differences that all of your examples are from holding back characters and non direct collision.

You did not prove how any of those characters were holding back with an actual logical reason.

With the differences that the only reason to why he sas that hurt is because is his WEAKNESS, and even then, he was still durable enough to survive another top tier character attac

It's not my burden to prove that he wasn't hurt by sheer weakness alone.
Just try to analyse the case in a consistent manner, such as:
UH's AP>DH's AP and dura
UEE's AP>UH's AP
Therefore UEE's AP>DH's AP and dura

As simple as that, this totally refutes the second part of the thread.

What you ignored:

• Albedo and Ben holding back on your examples that you say are "the same as this" when they're not.

Refuted this twice.

• Ignoring how the real poing is of DH surviving hits from multiple 4-B+.

Which is again contradictory as explained right above

 

[Celestial_Scaler25]

Ben was only hurt that bad against Ultimate Echo Echo, and as everyone here knows, that's only because he's extremely weak to sound based attacks. And even then, Ben was still conscious after UEE attacked him, UCB, and he wasn't one shot by UCB either, but the Ultimatrix timed out, he continued as an alien before completely falling.

DH immediately detransformed and was left barely contious as soon as UCB(4B). Hit him, if UEE's attack didn't significantly damaged him then why is a far weaker character able to one-shot him. UEE's attacks negate durability.
The Omnitrix still shows when it's gonna time out.

The same with UHS, Ben was knocked down, not out, by the missile, you can see how in that same fight they make a difference between Ben getting directly one shotted and when he doesn't. Yo hung and Good got practically desintegraged, meanwhile, Eye Guy and Diamondhead were knocked out, but weren't immedually detramsformed to Ben.
And that's the main point, Ben wasn't detramsformed by UEE nor UHS, and even if he was heavily injured, that was because his weakness, the feat would still be there, especially since UCB didn't do any more damage to an already injures DH.

I see the writers showing us the extreme significant power gap between these characters. Crashhopper also takes a fist to his side without directly detransforming. Does that mean that we scale him to UHS too. No, the writers are obviously portraying the vast significant power between Ben and his base aliens and Albedo's Ultimates.

Yes, with the diffemves that he was practically knocked out immediately by all of them, here Ben endured UEE attack for various seconds and wasn't KO'd, and even was still capable of surviving a hit from Ultimate Cannombllt.
Same against Alnedo, he wasn't detramsformed, just knocked down, in that same scene you can clearly see the difefencees between when they get actually one shot to when they don't.

Exactly, he endured it. Not tanked. There's a difference on how we treat these types of situations. It's pretty much why Alastor doesn't scale to Adam. He was left significantly damaged by a weapon made from something that was his weakness and bypassed durability only after one hit. Sound familiar?

 

[GeneralSol16]

Yes they did want him alive but that does not prove that Albedo was holding back against him at all especially when we hear the brute smash sound as I've mentioned above.

A sound effect means nothing.
And Albedo literally just cashal slapped him, not even a punch. And we see that when is an actual punch, the Humungousaurs died, or at the minimum, they were knocked out completely.
It's not about what I think, but what the show literally does.

An actual holding back scene would be something like Atomic-X finger flicking Vilgax away without going at full power.

That's not just holding back, that's literally going at the minimum amount of power as possible, something way below that any other scene, even Way Big.

Sure let's assume that none of the missiles hit Humungousaur.
But then you'd have another problem:
Here UH's missiles could hit multiple Humungousaurs and right after we see few Humungousaurs above ground without being detramsformed immediately. Therefore by your logic, Base Humungausaur's dura scales to UH's AP.

Eh? If you refer to when all other Hsaurs got on him, albedo literally took out multiple of them, not even catching your point by now. In a few seconds later, and a few seconds before, we see how his missiles can eliminate Humungousaurs as nothing, you're just focusing on a specific part of the video, which isn't a point at all either.

Even if you somehow ignore this, Humungousaur's dura would scale to UH's AP by surviving his brutal sounded punches (as per your logic).

No, by YOUR logic, because a holding back Alnedo was the one who foung against Ben, we literally can see the effects of a non holding back Ultimate Humungousaur does to regular examples of him.

You are yet to prove what makes Atomix's punch casual

Are u kidding me? Ben literally just raised his hand, and his other attacks were concentrated enough to not kill him. You still don't get the point on how Ben and other characters work against weaker ones.
Atomix literally is stronger than characters that one shot those same Ultimates, and I'm not even talking about Way Big.

You did not prove how any of those characters were holding back with an actual logical reason.

Sure, because the direct comparison of the effects of a non holding back characters, mere common sense and the characters logic aren't proof.

You're the one who doesn't have any way to proof that Albedo, for some reason, went all out against someone who wanted alive, even when we see how he does in a fight against that same alien without that restriction. Or how a being who is stronger than this other character capable of destroying all Ultimates was clearly holding back.

Your problem is that u don't make any conevruons with any other scene at all, or context.

It's not my burden to prove that he wasn't hurt by sheer weakness alone.
Just try to analyse the case in a consistent manner, such as:
UH's AP>DH's AP and dura
UEE's AP>UH's AP
Therefore UEE's AP>DH's AP and dura

You're interpreting everything as "Diamondhead no sold attacks from any of them", when the point is that Ben didn't pass out for any of those attacks, even being able to resist an attack from another Ultimate just after being all cracked up.
Really, man, stop doing all of this.

As simple as that, this totally refutes the second part of the thread.

You literally haven't say anything that is not "Sound effect is loud" "But how this clearly holding back character, which later is shown who he attacks when not holding back, is holding back?'

Refuted this twice.

Hasn't do it once

 

[Hellformer]

A sound effect means nothing.

Why not? It enhances the impact of the said attack which automatically disproves it being "casual"

And Albedo literally just cashal slapped him, not even a punch.

You're yet to prove how exactly its supposed to be casual.

And we see that when is an actual punch, the Humungousaurs died, or at the minimum, they were knocked out completely.

So was Diamondhead after getting hit by UH's missile.
You accept the fact that UH's missiles can knock out Humungousaur but when the same happens to DH, you refuse to accept it. Clearly double standards.

It's not about what I think, but what the show literally does.

What?

That's not just holding back, that's literally going at the minimum amount of power as possible, something way below that any other scene, even Way Big.

In the context of a fight, "holding back" means to refrain from using one's full strength, power, or effort, or to not fully engage in the conflict.
That's literally what holding back means which you yourself defined.

Eh? If you refer to when all other Hsaurs got on him, albedo literally took out multiple of them, not even catching your point by now. In a few seconds later, and a few seconds before, we see how his missiles can eliminate Humungousaurs as nothing

Same happened with Ben's Humungousaur over here. Ben couldn't stand up after getting hit by the Potency of explosion. So your claim doesn't have any actual point

, you're just focusing on a specific part of the video, which isn't a point at all either.

Why?

No, by YOUR logic, because a holding back Alnedo

His missile quite literally knocked Humungousaur down to the point that UH lifted him up while Ben was partially fainted.

Are u kidding me? Ben literally just raised his hand, and his other attacks were concentrated enough to not kill him.

What? What do you mean by raising hands? The scene quite literally shows him in a punching pose.

You still don't get the point on how Ben and other characters work against weaker ones.
Atomix literally is stronger than characters that one shot those same Ultimates, and I'm not even talking about Way Big.

Yes I know Atomix is stronger than Ultimates, but by your logic, UH would have the same dura as Atomix's AP

Sure, because the direct comparison of the effects of a non holding back characters, mere common sense and the characters logic aren't proof.

None of them were holding back

You're the one who doesn't have any way to proof that Albedo, for some reason, went all out against someone who wanted alive,

He literally lifted a fainted Humungousaur so what makes you think he was holding back? I literally gave you an example of what holding back looks like

even when we see how he does in a fight against that same alien without that restriction. Or how a being who is stronger than this other character capable of destroying all Ultimates was clearly holding back.

Definitely not

You're interpreting everything as "Diamondhead no sold attacks from any of them", when the point is that Ben didn't pass out for any of those attacks, even being able to resist an attack from another Ultimate just after being all cracked up.
Really, man, stop doing all of this.

How does this even refute my argument?

 

[Hellformer]

Going to sleep rn, will reply later on.

 

[GeneralSol16]

DH immediately detransformed and was left barely contious as soon as UCB(4B). Hit him, if UEE's attack didn't significantly damaged him then why is a far weaker character able to one-shot him. UEE's attacks negate durability.

Far weaker, seriously? The difference is less than 1.1, that's not even weaker at all.
And never said, or wanted to, that UEE never harmed DH, just that he wasn't one shot by him and was enoughly fine to survive an attack from an almost as strong character.

The Omnitrix still shows when it's gonna time out.

...ok?

I see the writers showing us the extreme significant power gap between these characters. Crashhopper also takes a fist to his side without directly detransforming. Does that mean that we scale him to UHS too.

Crashhopper literally got stomped and Ben quick changed practically at the instant he collided with the wall, not even the same, especially since Albedo just side punched him, not even same type of attack.

No, the writers are obviously portraying the vast significant power between Ben and his base aliens and Albedo's Ultimates.

Never said that DH and Ultimates are on the same level of power, but that he is durable enough to survive attacks from them, and that's supported by how no other character on gis league is capable of even doing the smallest crack.

Exactly, he endured it. Not tanked. There's a difference on how we treat these types of situations. It's pretty much why Alastor doesn't scale to Adam. He was left significantly damaged by a weapon made from something that was his weakness and bypassed durability only after one hit. Sound familiar?

I couldn't care less about Hazbin Hotel, and I don't know the context of that, so irrelevant.

Never said that Ben tanked it, but he endured it, the point keeps being exactly the same: Ben survived the attack long enough without falling unconscious and fine enough to survive being hurt by a relative amoukg of force a second later.

 

[GeneralSol16]

Why not? It enhances the impact of the said attack which automatically disproves it being "casual"

Because is for cinematic purposes dude, a sound effect doesn't proof absolutely nothing.
Ithis is just to proof how strong Albedo now is, doesn't even have to do with any of these.

You're yet to prove how exactly its supposed to be casual.

Holy damn.
Just watch it man, Albedo literally just slapped him, SLAPPED HIM, not even a punch, he did a casual move and Ben lost.
And we literally have a comparjon on what happens when Albedo doesn't hold back against Humhngousaur, how can you keep saying the same?

So was Diamondhead after getting hit by UH's missile.
You accept the fact that UH's missiles can knock out Humungousaur but when the same happens to DH, you refuse to accept it. Clearly double standards.

Humhngousaur WAS NOT directly hit by the missile the same way Diamondhead was, that's the difference.

In the context of a fight, "holding back" means to refrain from using one's full strength, power, or effort, or to not fully engage in the conflict.
That's literally what holding back means which you yourself defined.

Wow, just like how Albedo didn't go all out and used casual moves against Ben? Or how Atomix didn't use his full strength against Albedo, as he did against Malgsx? Or Way Big against all those same Ultimates? Lmao.

Same happened with Ben's Humungousaur over here. Ben couldn't stand up after getting hit by the Potency of explosion. So your claim doesn't have any actual point

Ben wasn't even hit at all, the mere shockwave was enough to knock him out, if you think that's the same as what happened to DH, damn.

Why?

?

His missile quite literally knocked Humungousaur down to the point that UH lifted him up while Ben was partially fainted.

For the 10th time, none of his missiles actually hit Ben.

What? What do you mean by raising hands? The scene quite literally shows him in a punching pose.

Eh? When Albedo ran to him, Ben just lifted his hand and knocked him out by the mere sneegy shield, as even listed as an ability in his profile.

Yes I know Atomix is stronger than Ultimates, but by your logic, UH would have the same dura as Atomix's AP

If you really think that Atomix used the same amount of power against Albedo as he did against Malgsx, it'd hilarious.

None of them were holding back

All of them were holding back, but you still don't know how a holding back character looks.

He literally lifted a fainted Humungousaur so what makes you think he was holding back? I literally gave you an example of what holding back looks like

Once again, making connection with things that have nothing to do.
Atomic-X no diffed Vilgax, that's not just holding back.

Definitely not

You've to be playing by now.

How does this even refute my argument?

Lmao.

 

[Celestial_Scaler25]

A sound effect means nothing.
And Albedo literally just cashal slapped him, not even a punch. And we see that when is an actual punch, the Humungousaurs died, or at the minimum, they were knocked out completely.
It's not about what I think, but what the show literally does.

It being a backhand hit doesn't mean it Albedo wasn't trying to hurt Ben. It all as to do with the amount of weight/force Albedo put in the strike. Albedo was about the 'Bane' Ben. There's no way he is trying to restrain Ben, he's intentionally doing damage.

Eh? If you refer to when all other Hsaurs got on him, albedo literally took out multiple of them, not even catching your point by now. In a few seconds later, and a few seconds before, we see how his missiles can eliminate Humungousaurs as nothing, you're just focusing on a specific part of the video, which isn't a point at all either.

Their getting blown away/pushed back. Haven't seen one get decintegraded or anything.

No, by YOUR logic, because a holding back Alnedo was the one who foung against Ben, we literally can see the effects of a non holding back Ultimate Humungousaur does to regular examples of him.

In both instances Humungousaur was getting negged. I only saw one instance of a Biodroid getting destroyed.

You're the one who doesn't have any way to proof that Albedo, for some reason, went all out against someone who wanted alive, even when we see how he does in a fight against that same alien without that restriction. Or how a being who is stronger than this other character capable of destroying all Ultimates was clearly holding back.

The Ultimates wanted Ben alive too, remember? They wanted to throw him into a hole.
The 'Bane' that Albedo was about to pull on Ben shows that he didn't care for Ben's physical well-being.

You're interpreting everything as "Diamondhead no sold attacks from any of them", when the point is that Ben didn't pass out for any of those attacks, even being able to resist an attack from another Ultimate just after being all cracked up.

Still endurance. Passing out happens due to pain. Him not passing out would be an endurance feat.

...ok?

You said that Ben timed out during his fight against the Ultimates. But there was no time out sound affect suggesting that Ben used up all the Omnitrix's power. Like here. Suggesting that the 2 attacks from UEE and UCB was enough to kill him.

Crashhopper literally got stomped and Ben quick changed practically at the instant he collided with the wall, not even the same, especially since Albedo just side punched him, not even same type of attack.

The there isn't any indication on the profile page suggesting that Ultimate Humungousaur's physical attacks and missles are any different. Also, Albedo went full force due to being annoyed.

Never said that DH and Ultimates are on the same level of power, but that he is durable enough to survive attacks from them, and that's supported by how no other character on gis league is capable of even doing the smallest crack.

Being the big fish in the pond doesn't mean you can survive a shark.
Diamondhead took damage from Slamworm, despite it being scared of Canonbolt

I couldn't care less about Hazbin Hotel, and I don't know the context of that, so irrelevant.

Pretty much the same here. Character A takes heavy damage from Characters B, whom has a AP gap and Durability Negation, and survives for a short moment out of endurance.

Never said that Ben tanked it, but he endured it, the point keeps being exactly the same: Ben survived the attack long enough without falling unconscious and fine enough to survive being hurt by a relative amoukg of force a second later.

Like I said. It's endurance not durability. He detransformed nearly immediately after getting hit by UCB. UCB's attack was just the straw that broke the camel's back. And we know this isn't the Omnitrix timing out cause it didn't do this.

Every instance of him fighting and Ultimate is either him getting put on his arse, getting severely crippled or the Omnitrix returning him to Ben form. The writers are clearly saying that he's not exactly on par with them.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Just coming here to make you know that clickbait titles are indeed rule violations that can be reported.

Do what you will with this information.

 

[Hellformer]

Because is for cinematic purposes dude, a sound effect doesn't proof absolutely nothing.
Ithis is just to proof how strong Albedo now is, doesn't even have to do with any of these.

This does not refute my point at all, if Albedo really intended to hold back, the fight wouldn't have been shown this intense. And like I said, Humungousaur was partially fainted by the end of their fight.

Holy damn.
Just watch it man, Albedo literally just slapped him, SLAPPED HIM, not even a punch, he did a casual move and Ben lost.
And we literally have a comparjon on what happens when Albedo doesn't hold back against Humhngousaur, how can you keep saying the same?

It wasn't a slap, more like a sideway punch which doesn't change anything because you're yet to actually prove how he was holding back when Humungousaur was knocked out by the end.

Humhngousaur WAS NOT directly hit by the missile the same way Diamondhead was, that's the difference.

Let me reiterate:
Humungousaur was hit by the Potency of the explosion which caused him to faint and that still counts as getting hit by the AP.

Wow, just like how Albedo didn't go all out and used casual moves against Ben?

You're yet to prove how those moves were casual

Or how Atomix didn't use his full strength against Albedo, as he did against Malgsx? Or Way Big against all those same Ultimates? Lmao.

There's nothing which suggests this, stop making things up

Ben wasn't even hit at all, the mere shockwave was enough to knock him out, if you think that's the same as what happened to DH, damn.

Potency of the explosion

?

For the 10th time, none of his missiles actually hit Ben.

Replied above

Eh? When Albedo ran to him, Ben just lifted his hand and knocked him out by the mere sneegy shield, as even listed as an ability in his profile.

And that was a punching pose because Albedo attacked him via jumping so he obviously had to target his opponent above the surface.

If you really think that Atomix used the same amount of power against Albedo as he did against Malgsx, it'd hilarious.

There's nothing which suggests he was holding back against Albedo especially when Ben didn't even know how powerful atomix is.

All of them were holding back, but you still don't know how a holding back character looks.

None of them to be precise

Once again, making connection with things that have nothing to do.
Atomic-X no diffed Vilgax, that's not just holding back.

Correction:
Atomic-X no diffed Vilgax, while holding back. He didn't go all out like he did against CTB.

You've to be playing by now.

The 2nd part of this does play

Lmao.

?

 

[GeneralSol16]

This does not refute my point at all, if Albedo really intended to hold back, the fight wouldn't have been shown this intense. And like I said, Humungousaur was partially fainted by the end of their fight.

What does even that have to do with anything? It was just a sound effect for the punch, it has no weight over if he held back or not.

It wasn't a slap, more like a sideway punch which doesn't change anything because you're yet to actually prove how he was holding back when Humungousaur was knocked out by the end.

Ofc he'd get knocked out, what are you talking about by now? And the fact that u don't get the point.
When Ultimate Humongousaur punched robot Humungousaur, he destroyed them, even 9 at the same time. But when he punched Ben, he just slapped him and Ben wasn't even left unconscious, if you don't understand something as simple as "he clearly didn't go all out because he just didn't kill him."

Let me reiterate:
Humungousaur was hit by the Potency of the explosion which caused him to faint and that still counts as getting hit by the AP.

The AP of the missiles is where they actually collide, a explosion loses potency os the surface after colliding, so not even same AP after they explode.

You're yet to prove how those moves were casual

I won't repeat same arguments over and over again, read the same comment I've posted for 20 comments.

There's nothing which suggests this, stop making things up

Eh? Ben literally went all out against Malgax, even coming he used his strongest attack, punching with his whole body and bull rushing him and keeping beating him.
Against Albedo? Ben rised his hand, took him down, and then just stood there, I can't believe how you don't understand tha

And that was a punching pose because Albedo attacked him via jumping so he obviously had to target his opponent above the surface.

That doesn't even have nothing to do with this, once again.

There's nothing which suggests he was holding back against Albedo especially when Ben didn't even know how powerful atomix is.

Eh? How just creating a forcefield counts as AP? And then, Ben literally just did a casual move, exactly the same as Atomic-X against Vilgax.
And Ben never said that he didn't know how powerful Atomix was, but just "Sorry, too much destruction cuz this one is new". The Omnitrix gives information to Ben so he can use his aliens better.

Correction:
Atomic-X no diffed Vilgax, while holding back. He didn't go all out like he did against CTB.

And none of that has something to do with it.

Their getting blown away/pushed back. Haven't seen one get decintegraded or anything.

1. When Albedo punched the ground, he killed various Humungousaur, you can even see their "bodies".
2. Just before they defeat him, you can see some of them literally disappearing after a missile directly hit him.

The Ultimates wanted Ben alive too, remember? They wanted to throw him into a hole.

Alive? Did you watch the scene at all? Literally "Your mind control this place, no more you, no more prison"
Theat red hole wasn't part of their plan until Gwen Android no Way Big appeared, since Ultimate Big Chill didn't considered it until Ultimate Humungousaur let him knew.

The 'Bane' that Albedo was about to pull on Ben shows that he didn't care for Ben's physical well-being.

Of course he doesn't, but that doesn't disproof that he wasn't holding back.
Holding back is just not go all out, not "I don't want you to suffer"

Still endurance. Passing out happens due to pain. Him not passing out would be an endurance feat.

Ben has been shown to pass out if the enemy is too strong, example? Against Albedo, Vilgax, Malware, Aggregor, even Firsttrick.
Here he didn't pass out at all.

You said that Ben timed out during his fight against the Ultimates. But there was no time out sound affect suggesting that Ben used up all the Omnitrix's power. Like here. Suggesting that the 2 attacks from UEE and UCB was enough to kill him.

Ben literally said that he timed out against them, since he tried to run out the Ultimatrix battery, as that maybe would allow him to escape, but not such luck.
That "beeping" is consistent, he has timed out before without that should effect in UAF.

And if Ben would have died there, then he would be dead. Ultimatrix doesn't have a failsafe against such things, just The Omnitrix does.

The there isn't any indication on the profile page suggesting that Ultimate Humungousaur's physical attacks and missles are any different. Also, Albedo went full force due to being annoyed.

Annoyed? What are you talking about buddy? He was annoyed during OV, in AF, he was completely confident of him stomping Ben.
And you don't need it on his profile, the show proves it.
But don't worry, after this ends, I'll do the same to Ultimate Humongousaur "4-B+ physically, higher with missiles."

Being the big fish in the pond doesn't mean you can survive a shark.
Diamondhead took damage from Slamworm, despite it being scared of Canonbolt

That wasn't the same Slamworm at all, at least that you believe that he went from being almost full Size Humungousaur level in size to Cannonbolt level.
And Ben used his sword hand, which, as shown, his constructs are weaker than his body.

Pretty much the same here. Character A takes heavy damage from Characters B, whom has a AP gap and Durability Negation, and survives for a short moment out of endurance.

Like I said. It's endurance not durability. He detransformed nearly immediately after getting hit by UCB. UCB's attack was just the straw that broke the camel's back. And we know this isn't the Omnitrix timing out cause it didn't do this.

Man, the feat is surviving attacks from Ultimate Echo Echo, and then Ultimate Cannonbolt. He didn't pass out at all in any of those.
He did time out, as Ben himself said.

Every instance of him fighting and Ultimate is either him getting put on his arse, getting severely crippled or the Omnitrix returning him to Ben form. The writers are clearly saying that he's not exactly on par with them.

Of course he's not, he's weaker.
But Diamondhead is just durable enough to survive attacks from them, and supported by how no other characters is able to harm him at all.

 

[GeneralSol16]

We're on a tug war by now, and repeating each other's point over and over again
It'd the best if we just wait for any mod so this can have a different direction.

 

[Lort15]

mid

 

[Reiner04]

Thread seems fine to me.

 

[GeneralSol16]

Bump

 

[Antvasima]

@Firestorm808

What do you think about this?

 

[Firestorm808]

Hi, recently Ben 10 has been upgraded to Tier 4, and with that, some characters scale to 4-B and 4-B, but there are some characters that don't and should do it, and today, I'll focus on one that does it, imo, In a very consistent way.

Duamondhead ​

Currently, Ben's Petrosoaien form scales to " [4°B] Solar System level (Fought on par with Omega-1 Nanite Rex Salazar. Defeated Vilgax). It looks good, right? Well, there's some layers on it that should be revised.

Diamondhead has two main ways of fighting: physically and usuikg his constructs, and we've seen throughout the show that they varie between each other.

Physically, Diamondhead is able to keep up with Generator Rex, who as seen here too, is comparable to Base Size Humungousaur.


This is rather consistent, as we see how Colossus Kevin heat Albedo as Diamondhead in a physical confrontation, leaving him on the floor with some moves.


This is rather consistent, as seen when that same Kevin destroyed a robot that was copying Ben as Humungousaur.

That same robot was shown to be comparable to the real Humungousaur, so no doubt on this.
[8:50]
So, Kevin superiority against Duamondhead makes sense, as DH is comparable to Base Haaur, and Kevin nulled them both.

Ffollowing everything, Warlord Vilgax directly stomped both Colossus Kevin and Gwen at the same time, showing how much superiority he has over them.


Which is consistent with how Vilgax overpowered Full Size Humungousaur and no sold neuroshocks from Jetray.
https://youtu.be/7Y4zODKvtbk?feature=shared

But, as seen in the first Albedo vs Kevin fight, and in this next one, Ben was able to stomp both adversaries, with him one shoting Kevin and quickly overpowering Vilgax, how? Well, he just used his Crystal Constructs.
https://youtu.be/Hf231P2dJYY?feature=shared
https://youtu.be/sF-gsaJ-R3o?si=BMYh_0taAPgLo5hI
So, Diamondhead's crystals (walls, shards, pillars, etc) will scale vasfoy above his physical strength, as he overpowered beings that well above his stats.

Summary:​

Duamondhead should be upgraded from "4-B" to "4-B physically, far higher with Crystal Constructs."

Agree:
Disagree:

Following this, we have that Diamondhead durability should be upgraded as well.

During the episode "Ultimate Sacrifice", Ben fought against his Ultimate Forms, with Diamondhead being attacked by Ultimate Echo Echo and Cannonbolt, the former producing more damage than anyone else, but that's because sonic waves are literally his weakness.

Ben VS Ultimates | Ben 10 Ultimate Alien

Ben Tennyson is trapped inside his Ultimatrix and is attacked by the ultimate aliens who have seemed to branch off of the ultimatrix and now posses an indivi...

youtu.be

By current standards, Diamondhead survived being hit by an 4-B+ attack, and even when being his literal weakness, he was just superficially cracked, just go be immmedialy rolled up by another higher into 4-B, almost 4-B+, as Ult Cannombllt is.
Later in Omniverse, Ben endured being hit by one of Ultimate Humungousaur's missiles, and although knocked down, he was enoughly fine to get up in a few moments, and wasn't visually hurt.

Ben 10 Omniverse - Ben Vs. Albedo.

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

Throughout UAF and OV, Diamondhead body has never been damaged at all, only in that specific scene liked above and when other characters breaking his comstructs, but those are not the same, since they've been shown to be less durable than his main body by straight comparison.

"But considering how Ult Haaur did a comparable level damage to Diamondhead as UEE, shouldn't that be an incolsyency? Since the latter stomped Ultimate Kevin, something that UHS couldn't do"
Yeah, not at all, and is quite simple.
Albedo used his missiles against Ben, something that he never used against Kevin, going in a physical confrontation only.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

And as seen in the series, Humungousaur's missiles are stronger than his punches, one missile directly disappeared a Humungousaur, while a punch, although one shoting him too, sealed way less damage in comparison.
And let's be honest, Albedo didn't even harm Ben that much to even have a way to compare who dealt more damage.

Summary:
Diamondhead should be upgraded from "4-B" to 4-B+" in Durability.​

Agree
Dis

agree:

General (dis)agreement:​

Agree: @Reiner04
Disagree:

​

How would you draft the justification on the profile?

 

[GeneralSol16]

How would you draft the justification on the profile?

Tier: 4-B, far higher with Crystal Constructs.

Attack Potency: Solar Systems level (Comparable to Rex Salazar, who battled against Humungousaur, Lodestar and Rath), far higher with Crystal Constructs (One shot Colossus Kevin. Defeated Warlord Vilgax, leaving the latter with a back eye, even when, Jetray, Big Chill and a Full Sized Humungousaur did nothing to him. Overpowered Clyde 5, with Liam admitting he has no chance against Ben, even when the armor had enough power to demolish Plumber's tanks, which Crash hopper couldn't even move or dent. Slightly made Malgax step back while he was running towards Ben, although did no real damage. Some Crystal Shards from another Petrosapien were able to harm a To'kustar, albeit superficially only)

Durability: 4-B+ (Survived attacks from Ultimate Echo Echo and Ultimate Cannonbolt. Endured a missile from Negative Ultimate Humongousaur)

Could be something like this.

 

[Hellformer]

How would you draft the justification on the profile?

Did you read the justification for Diamondhead's durability? If not then I'd request you to read it for once because the reasoning for that is very absurd in my opinion.

 

[GeneralSol16]

Tier: 4-B, far higher with Crystal Constructs.

Attack Potency: Solar Systems level (Comparable to Rex Salazar, who battled against Humungousaur, Lodestar and Rath), far higher with Crystal Constructs (One shot Colossus Kevin. Defeated Warlord Vilgax, leaving the latter with a back eye, even when, Jetray, Big Chill and a Full Sized Humungousaur did nothing to him. Overpowered Clyde 5, with Liam admitting he has no chance against Ben, even when the armor had enough power to demolish Plumber's tanks, which Crash hopper couldn't even move or dent. Slightly made Malgax step back while he was running towards Ben, although did no real damage. Some Crystal Shards from another Petrosapien were able to harm a To'kustar, albeit superficially only)

Durability: 4-B+ (Survived attacks from Ultimate Echo Echo and Ultimate Cannonbolt. Endured a missile from Negative Ultimate Humongousaur)

Could be something like this.

.

How would you draft the justification on the profile?

Do you agree with it?

 

[GeneralSol16]

B

How would you draft the justification on the profile?

Bump

 

[Firestorm808]

I agree that the durability and AP of Diamondhead's crystal constructs can vary.

OS Diamondhead broke his hands on Vilgax

AF/UA Diamondhead fired shards do little damage or break on Vilgax.

Dropping a massive crystal on Vilgax was able to do significant damage.

To reiterate, what has AF/UA Diamondhead legitimately tanked without cracking?

I know OV Diamondhead's limbs and crystal pillars were broken by Malgax.

 

[Hellformer]

I agree that the durability and AP of Diamondhead's crystal constructs can vary.

OS Diamondhead broke his hands on Vilgax

AF/UA Diamondhead fired shards do little damage or break on Vilgax.

Dropping a massive crystal on Vilgax was able to do significant damage.

To reiterate, what has AF/UA Diamondhead legitimately tanked without cracking?

I know OV Diamondhead's limbs and crystal pillars were broken by Malgax.

His constructs make his AP impressive. While his physical durability isn't that good, much like relative to other aliens.

 

[Firestorm808]

His constructs make his AP impressive. While his physical durability isn't that good, much like relative to other aliens.

In that case, Diamondhead would physically scale to other Aliens below base Humungousaur. Higher with large constructs.

 

[GeneralSol16]

To reiterate, what has AF/UA Diamondhead legitimately tanked without cracking?

12:27

Ben's arm as Diamondhead's no sold Sunder trying to slice Gwen, Kevin and Julie in half, even when as shown in the OP, he could defeat Gwen, Kevin (both Colossus and UA), Ultimate Spidermonjey and be physically on par with a dizzy Ultimate Canbonbolt and all of them are superior to Base Humungousaur.

He also didn't crack when Ultimate Humungousaur shot him or when Ultimate Cannombllt rolled him up, being harmed only by UEE (his cracks being produced only by his weakness)

 

[Firestorm808]

12:27

Ben's arm as Diamondhead's no sold Sunder trying to slice Gwen, Kevin and Julie in half

He also didn't crack when Ultimate Humungousaur shot him or when Ultimate Cannombllt rolled him up

Looking at the clips, I wouldn't use those instances for scaling.

 

[GeneralSol16]

Looking at the clips, I wouldn't use those instances for scaling.

Uhm, then would it he stay the same? Only with "Far higher with Constructs" in AP? I'd say that a "At least 4-B" should be the best for his Dura, since he's always portrayed to be more durable than most of Ben's regular aliens, taking little to no damage from being comparable to the others.