The mortal statements don't convince me at all. Those just sound like absurdity and some reality warping.
The avatar statements say logic, but don't really show anything that sounds like a violation of a logical principle.
Similar thing for the realm of god. Sure, it says that they cause a paradox, for example, but then the context says that a thing like hearing each other while moving at faster than light speed. That isn't a logical paradox!
Ultimately, I fail to see anything that suggests that the author doesn't just mean violating laws (of physics or otherwise) and being generally absurd, in the way "breaking logic" is used at times.
So I think it is fair to go over this step by step in order to fully grasp and comprehend the structure of both the world of Awlba and the story as a whole. At its core Awlba isn't just describing characters who break logic in a flashy hyperbolical meaningless way but actually in a setting where reality is rule-based in the sense that what exists in the world follow a specific standard and framework, and where certain beings are violating that condition and rule-based order by existing outside it. Alovenus's story is pretty much structured very carefully to show the difference between her acting within a world's foundations while being able to alter and/or ignore them and her essentially changing those foundations all together.
Establishing the foundations:
On the original universe and earth Alovenus "comes from",
reality is presented as essentially normal. People are born, they suffer and they die. Cause and effect works as you'd expect and even miracles (Alovenus doing her thing) do not alter the long term structure of the world. Alovenus appears here as a singularity, an anomaly who is the only being with supernatural power in which a singularity is a point where ordinary description and extrapolation break down, where you cannot keep applying the same rules and expect sensible answers. Her actions, no matter how dramatic are still constrained by the world’s existing foundations (prior to her altering or enforcing new laws and whatnot). She heals the sick, saves the wounded and rescues the suffering, yet the story emphasizes that it is ultimately meaningless, people are "made to die," to be fragile etc and the world inevitably returns to its original state. Her interventions would for the lack of better words be like temporarily changing the positions of furnitures in a collapsing house, basically the structure itself remains unchanged and the outcome does not truly improve.
So the problem in itself was not a lack of power but it was that the world's way of being and its foundations already guaranteed suffering. As long as she existed inside/within that framework while still not being confined by those foundations, everything she fixed would eventually amount to nothing for anyone that's not her, meaning Inference-wise, this is equivalent to a system where a premise such as "this light is on" is always forced by the world's underlying foundational structure to eventually collapse into "this light is not on" either through logical necessity (such as deductive closure within the system's enforced rules) or through ordinary causal progression, like the light being turned off or the light bulb dying out. In such a framework it would be impossible for any proposition to remain indefinitely fixed in a single state, as the world itself restores consistency in accordance with its logical order. So in a world governed by the law of non-contradiction, such a state (the light being both on and not on in the same respect) is impossible. The texts point is that Alovenus eventually moves beyond a world where such prohibitions are foundational (wherein "this light is on" and "this light is not on" are such prohibitions). That realization is essentially what leads directly to her conclusion that saving the world requires flipping it over completely and changing the foundations (essentially reprogramming humans and making them immortal among others things, such as removing the concept of hatred and other bad concepts from their nature etc.)
When Alovenus reaches the "end" of the universe, the text makes it very explicit, such that a being surpassing the speed of light is acknowledged as impossible and catastrophic for ordinary matter, which would normally be just her ignoring the laws of physics and not violating logic, but then the story immediately dismissed it and not because she is "so strong" but because it ties back on her being a singularity, unbound by the universe's laws. So the example she gave us of "
cooling water" helps us understand what she alongside the story is actually trying to tell us, cooling water normally produces ice and that expectation represents everyday, unquestioned common sense as well as how physical laws are established and work. When Alovenus declares that cooling water will instead produce fire, the universe does not comply, instead she enforces laws without any regard for whether they preserve consistency, explanation or rational derivation regardless of what the worlds foundational principles says or thinks. So the text is not saying she creates fire, but the rule linking cause to effect has been replaced. Why? Who knows? And normally the question of why only makes sense inside a fixed logical framework. Once the framework itself can be ignored or altered/changed, explanation becomes irrelevant. So the "I can do it" line, instead functions as the truth because truth is no longer derived but instead is imposed unto reality.
This is then reinforced later through Sanieve's
divine skill Muliphen. Muliphen is described as applying new laws as firmly and steadfast as normal laws of physics: so cooling freezes and heating boils. It essentially makes it clear and represents laws of reality as something that is causally automatic and unavoidable. Muliphen shows what rule and law enforcement actually looks like when it works normally. Alovenus's earlier example shows what happens when the authority behind the rules changes. One injects laws into a system while the other decides what laws the system recognizes at all.
Add-on Examples:
Thulhu is another great inverse example. He is not the author or god of reality, but a bug, a being that emerged outside the rules and laws of the world. When Sanieve's
divine skill Muliphen (
Like other skills from other agents of the Goddess, his unique skill has higher priority than any other skills. These skills are absolute as they are permitted by Alovenus rules. They can't be prevented, take absolute priority over all skills in place, and once used are absolutely certain to happen) fails on him, the narration does not describe brute resistance, it just explains that laws simply do not bind him.
He exists in contradiction to the Goddess's rules, so the laws shatter on contact.
His ability to twist the world into incoherence while blurring near and far, solid and liquid, sense and nonsense, would mirror Alovenus's foundational authority in a distorted way. Not to mention Alovenus's avatar, stated not to be on the level of true form Alovenus (for obvious reasons) but was still absurdly powerful.
Wherein she was able to warp reality as much as she wanted, and she could control logic and reason however she liked. All of creation was nothing more than a set of toys to her, creatures mere dolls, so what she was about to do was put on a one-night puppet show. She used Azathoth and flipped everything, thus reality flipped on its head. Black became white and vice versa. Fiction and reality switched places. Even the wicked god's (Thulhu) little world was painted over by the Goddess's selfish rules in an instant. Reality, dreams, the past, the present and the future all came under her control. Nothing was impossible. "I can do it." Such selfishness was allowed and could reach infinity. It could even invent something above infinity, and that was the type of existence the Goddess Alovenus was. Meaning that Thulhu still got caught up in and was affected by Alovenus's avatar's attack, despite being someone who was supposed to be able to ignore and completely disregard the laws of the world by completely existing outside its framework, as well as those laws that were forcefully imposed on him.
Both Alovenus and Thulhu deliberately rewrites common sense of the world, while Thulhu also erodes it by existing outside the worlds jurisdiction.
Thulhu is level 1000 between, so even he is nothing compared to level 1500, 2000 and level
4200 Ruphas who was stated to intercept an attack that ignored reason, providence, common sense, logic, theorems, or law, as all of it was powerless and none of it meant anything or could do anything.
Isn't it peculiar that the author brought up common sense, logic, theorems and laws as separate entities?
If we were to define all of them, we'll have to start with common sense.
"Common sense is the basic, practical judgment and sound reasoning most people share, allowing for reasonable decisions in everyday life, based on simple perceptions and widely accepted knowledge, without needing specialized expertise or deep analysis. It's about understanding obvious truths, like not stepping in front of a moving car, and making practical choices, often expressed as "It's just common sense!".
"Logic is the study of correct reasoning, principles, and valid inference, focusing on how to draw sound conclusions from premises, essentially a system for structured thinking that examines arguments for consistency and truth, applicable from everyday problem-solving. It helps determine if a conclusion must follow from given information, distinguishing it from psychology (how people actually think) by defining how we should think to be rational."
"A theorem is a statement, especially in mathematics and logic, that has been proven true using deductive reasoning from axioms, definitions, and previously established theorems. Essentially, it's a claim verified by a logical proof, not just supported by evidence, making it a backbone of formal systems."
"A law refers to fundamental, immutable principles governing reality, encompassing both scientific laws (like gravity or thermodynamics, describing physical interactions) and metaphysical/spiritual laws (like the Law of Attraction or Cause & Effect, describing energetic and conscious principles) that dictate cosmic order and function at all scales, from particle physics to human experience."
We also have an entire bar encounter in an afterword where the laws of physics and the law of conservation of mass are complaining to the author that Ruphas is bending them over and shoving their backside with a cactus, due to how she essentially treats them as irrelevant and only uses them when it is convenient for her.
It is starting to make a lot of sense to say that a law in Awlba isn't simply a rule or principle that allows one to understand how physical interaction is possible, among other things, but that it instead should be viewed as an umbrella that encompasses a multitude of things simultaneously. As such, a law being imposed by Alovenus might be a rule in which hot=hot,hot=cold, cold=cold, blue=red, blue≠blue and/or even be a concept or a plot/narrative.
So it would make sense to argue that since Alovenus is an all-encompassing entity, her law manipulation isn’t simply just law manipulation, but instead includes logic, common sense, plot, conceptual manipulation among others as byproducts in a complete package which is her setting.
Both Ruphas and Benetnash are born in Midgard, a world whose foundations Alovenus already altered from her previous world. Through levels and mana, the world gradually allows inhabitants to escape ordinary constraints. When you reach higher levels such as 1000 and 1500 (
after breaking the metaphysical barrier or limit Alovenus has imposed unto reality),
combat is explicitly framed as a contest of who can ignore common sense more. Where breaking through the 1000 level limit was a prerequisite for having the "right to challenge Alovenus" as a starting point. Alovenus has plot manipulation on her profile, as the world itself moves in accordance with the scenario written by Alovenus. This plot manipulation as I mentioned above would include and define all abilities and aspects of reality/creation due to how her powers work, as well as the Final Point, which I will talk about next.
Endpoint/Final Point:
When it comes to the
Realm of God, the Endpoint which is an infinite structureless "space" where universes are compared to programs and folders. Here, there, scale, time, distance, size, speed and limits have no inherent meaning unless someone paints them into existence. That is why characters can have infinite speed (though in reality their speed is beyond infinite and immeasurable). They are able to speak in a frozen vacuum and ignore time-based restrictions. The space does not intrinsically have rules/frameworks or boundaries (as it would be the last and all-encompassing boundary of everything) as rules exist only if willed into being by God.
When Alovenus declares that reason and providence are nothing, or when Ruphas realizes that victory is simply a matter of asserting "I am stronger," the story is being literal. At this level concepts/laws/logic among others must be created to matter at all.
To add on a point I brought up earlier. On Vsbw
Settings imposed by Alovenus (the one in Midgard being known as the Goddess scenario) are already accepted as a form of
plot manipulation, and deviating from or ignoring/breaking through that scenario is seen as resistance to plot manipulation or you yourself having plot manipulation. Settings are not ordinary abilities, laws or the likes. But instead they are presented as declared truths imposed unto reality from the Endpoint by God. The Endpoint or otherwise known as the Final Point is more or less a
pre-conceptual/pre-creation blank plane where nothing such as laws, causality, logic, providence or even coherent structure exists or bind anyone by default. As such these things only come into being when a God actively defines and enforces them. Because of this, overcoming or ignoring a setting does not simply mean overpowering an attack or bypassing a rule or a law, but it would essentially mean overriding the layer or for the lack of better words, the reason/logic for which decides what counts as true or valid in the first place. With this in mind and seen in this light, the narration's repeated emphasis on reason, providence, common sense, logic, theorems and laws becoming powerless, points to them not being simple rhetorical decorations. As it reflects the fact that the coherence constraints of the scenario itself are being replaced or rendered irrelevant, instead of characters merely misunderstanding events or reasoning incorrectly (but in reality it is pretty much both cases simultaneously due to how the world works).
Overall Conclusion and Summary:
So to sum it all up. Alovenus's progression is going from existing while ignoring restraints/laws in a constrained reality to being truly unconstrained and creating such realities and foundations. As a "mortal" anomaly, she could reshape outcomes, but the world’s foundation would always be itself and absolute. As a god who now occupy the Final Point, instead of violating and existing outside such laws, she would now be the one who controls and imposes such foundations and constraints. Thulhu, Ruphas, Orm and Benetnash among others each reflect different expressions of this same principle: beings for whom the world's rules are absolute but no longer applicable to them (since they do have plot manipulation and resistance to it as well). The contradictions and absurdities that follow are the natural results of a setting where coherence, logic, reason, limit, providence, concepts and laws were never obligatory or binding, but optional constructs enforced only by those with the authority to insist on them.
So if Alovenus was to say:
"The lamp is on. (A)
The lamp is not on. (¬A)
The lamp is neither on nor not on. (¬A ∧ ¬¬A, or, ¬(A ∨ ¬A))
Conclusion: Therefore, the lamp is on and not on, and neither on nor not on."
That would work in her setting because she would make it the truth and define it as what is considered valid, allowing such a paradox to act as if it weren’t one at all. She doesn’t need to explain or justify it, it simply is, due to her authority over these things. This is essentially what the story has been hammering on about.
I could have sworn I saw you say something like:
"As a result, Metaphysical Aspects equal or superior to logic can be considered as High Outerverse level+ aspects of reality as well, provided that their nature does not imply a restriction on the nature of logic, contradicting the above reasoning" wherein it is possible for metaphysical aspects to be equal to or superior to logic, potentially serving as its source, or where logic itself can be instilled into creation and into what exists. Please correct me on this matter if I'm mistaken.
This was longer than I first anticipated, and do excuse me for my formatting, I'm still getting the hang of it all. But either way, I hope this at least made you understand why certain statements were made at said particular moments, and how it all ties back to Alovenus and the Final Point.
This confuses me a little, because she does things which match with the logic page pretty well. The "mental reasoning" is like an example of her power controlling everything too. Currently it's marked as CM, law, plot, etc. But the author seems to want us to also understand she can mess with all this, because with logic, and breaks all these rules. She is illogical, inconsistent & unrealistic. So...what do we consider these kind of things, when the author drops all these statements of breaking logic and reason, and is supposed to be separate from other aspects?
