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Arthur fra
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Loid Forger vs Arthur Morgan - Spies and Cowboys
- Thread starter Stillwinston
- Start date
- Status
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Arthur FRA
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Morgan FRA. Seems like this dude's skills are being underplayed while Loid's is being inflated.
Loid has no answer to Arthur blowing his head off with Dead Eye from the start of the match. Out of the two he's also the only one who can actually heal himself if he takes damage, unlike Loid who's also outclassed in terms of gunslinging. Arthur is much more precise when it comes to shooting especially with Dead Eye which further increases his accuracy.
Dead Eye hasn't even been properly addressed outside of Milly. The rest got Dead Eye confused with Eage Eye. The match starts, Arthur uses Dead Eye and puts a hole in Loid's head. I think we're also forgetting that Arthur can make Loid unable to dodge via AoE from explosive rounds or High Velocity rounds which can target multiple people spread out.
use Express rounds to blitz and one shot Loid. Morgan also has the perfect thing to counter Loid being able to take cover in the form of TNT, or he can use molotov cocktails to spread fire to make it harder for Loid to hide.
Loid has no answer to Arthur blowing his head off with Dead Eye from the start of the match. Out of the two he's also the only one who can actually heal himself if he takes damage, unlike Loid who's also outclassed in terms of gunslinging. Arthur is much more precise when it comes to shooting especially with Dead Eye which further increases his accuracy.
Dead Eye hasn't even been properly addressed outside of Milly. The rest got Dead Eye confused with Eage Eye. The match starts, Arthur uses Dead Eye and puts a hole in Loid's head. I think we're also forgetting that Arthur can make Loid unable to dodge via AoE from explosive rounds or High Velocity rounds which can target multiple people spread out.
use Express rounds to blitz and one shot Loid. Morgan also has the perfect thing to counter Loid being able to take cover in the form of TNT, or he can use molotov cocktails to spread fire to make it harder for Loid to hide.
Vzearr
He/Him- 1,361
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Ironic.
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A comment without an actual rebuttal just makes you look like you can't debate properly.
Vzearr
He/Him- 1,361
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Sigh. Another ironic statement.
You do realise they start outside of each others line of sight right ? Arthur isn't gonna get the chance if he can't see Loid.
Not in each others line of sight.
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Loid, tbh seems a lil stompy even.
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Are you gonna actually explain as to how it's ironic or are you just gonna sit here talking hot shit?
Do you know so far humans can see? The average human can see for 3 miles, and Arthur has feats of seeing people further than a measly 20 meters. That just means that they're not directly in front of one another which is hardly an issue. Furthermore Arthur's sensory abilities are pretty ridiculous in of itself, being able to react to panthers in dark caves void of light. Ya know against the same thing that can see in the dark when he can't? The same apex predator that has stealth good enough to work on experienced hunters that have been hunting all their lives in the woods hunting.
As good as Loid's senses are, i find it extremely doubtful that he has better senses than a Panter that can see in the dark, has absolute stealth mastery that works on highly experienced hunters, make no sound when moving due to their soft paws, and overall much superior eyesight and other senses that are heightened such as smell and hearing. Wider eyes allow for a greater field of vision with cougars having a rating of 285 degrees.
Cougars can pick up ultrasonic sounds and have a wider range than many mammals. They can detect high-pitched frequencies easily, which allows them to find even the tiniest mouse trying to escape in the snow and their smell is about 30 times that of a humans sense of smell.
Arthur ended up getting the drop on a legendary Cougar in the middle of a dark cave before it could get him first.
Read above.
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fr stop simping for loid
arthur fra via gins reasons
arthur fra via gins reasons
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Anyway let's see Loid "stealth GG" here. https://vsbattles.com/threads/a-spy-and-a-hitman-walk-into-a-bar.163526/
I'm waiting for the Loid stans.
I'm waiting for the Loid stans.
Vzearr
He/Him- 1,361
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Nope. Just gonna keep saying ironic. Because its... Well.... Ironic.
Its in New York, I presume Loid is going to be in a building. Arthur physically can't see Loid nor sense him, seeing as Loid has stealth mastery (far better then Arthurs) I doubt Arthur is going to get the chance to see him before a bullet goes through his head.
Also, reacting to a panther and seeing a panther in a dark cave are two very different things. One is vastly less impressive.
Could you send the Panther feat please ? Also, Loid is still going to be able to get away from Arthur, its that simple, 20 meters with no line of sight. Loid is not going to be caught by dead eye nor eagle eye.
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Great argument. 10/10, I think I'll never debate again because this such a God tier argument.
20 meters apart, i fail to see why the both of them wouldn't be in a building unless your assuming Loid is magically starting hidden in a building while Arthur is outside.
He can sense and track cougars in the dark just fine, i find it doubtful he can move more quietly than a cougar in it's natural area. Also furthermore, a lot of Loid's stealth required him to have prep and intell on where he was going, he obviously didn't go in there with zero intell whatsoever. Loid doesn't erase his presence, let's not act like Loid's stealth mastery is on some shounen anime type shit.
There's also Arthur learning from Wapiti Tribe Indians, the same dude who were going around silently killing American Soliders with bows in the wood while they were equipped with firearms.
I agree with Loid having better stealth mastery that Arthur but it isn't like Arthur has no experience in dealing with tricky foes.
Not reacting, Arthur found it before it found him. Don't get things twisted.
Sure.
Cool so Arthur pursues him. Again as I said, 20 meters with no line of sight is irrelevant as Arthur can still hear Loid and has experience in killing shit with vastly better field of vision than Loid such as Cougars and various other wild animals.
Reasoning? Honestly all your argument are just words at this point. I didn't mention Eagle Eye first of all, and Dead Eye slows down his perception of time along with amping his own speed. Topped with things such as explosive rounds, and express rounds that travel even faster than normal rounds makes it relatively easy for Arthur to tag Loid if he's within range.
Loid's never dealt with something like Dead-Eye that slows down his perception of time, amps his speed and let's him auto target. Also in an actual gunfight Arthur is filling Loid with holes before he can even fire back, Western quick draws are his bread and butter especially with Dead-Eye.
Arthur can also heal himself if he takes damage unlike Loid.
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Here's the cougar feat. It's a bit of a pain in the ass to find a player that isn't shit at the game that just stumbles into the bastard. But during my play through I literally just hid out and pelleted the bastard with the double barrel. You can even do it with a damn bow depending if the player is good enough.
The Legendary Panther reflects this better as its in an open field with plenty of tall grass for it to take cover, Arthur can still find it despite its home field advantage while being camouflaged in the tall blades of grass.
The Legendary Panther reflects this better as its in an open field with plenty of tall grass for it to take cover, Arthur can still find it despite its home field advantage while being camouflaged in the tall blades of grass.
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Also taking cover is pretty much moot considering Arthur can just blow whatever cover Loid takes up, possibly hitting him with shrapnel.
Vzearr
He/Him- 1,361
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Thanks. I took lots of time typing it.
I didn't say Arthur wouldn't be in a building.
Wasn't Arthur surprised on multiple occasions ? If Arthur is going to follow Loids tracks how do we know Loid won't just put him off by going through different pathways ? Or just going through a door and camping by it.
The difference is that the soldiers weren't aware they were in an active fight I presume.
How exactly is Arthur going to figure out there isn't a pistol waiting behind a random door he opens ? He wouldn't be able to see it to react to it.
The thing is, Arthur isn't going to see Loid. Loid will know to keep away from Arthur and hide, with his stealth mastery and listening device, Arthur won't be able to see him before Loid shoots him.
This is just reaction speed. Not impressive.
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You should go into politics.
Ah well at least that's how it sounded with the way you worded that.
Yeah so what? Loid's also been surprised and most of the things that took Arthur off guard were early into the game or shit like being pulled up on by dozens of men with a old mini gun.
Eagle Eye takes care of that and not because of the tracks. He can see tracks normally but with Eagle Eye they're more defined, which won't help much due to Loid's shoes not leaving tracks but unfortunately for him Eagle-Eye also leaves an actual "trail." leading to where Arthur needs to find shit. Basically leaving a trail of blue light behind the enemy. So Arthur can keep track of Loid regardless to tell where is location is. Things targeted by Eagle-Eye are also brighter to Arthur.
Read above.
Yeah that's the thing, it wouldn't be stealth if the soldiers could sense them or know they're in an active fight to begin with.
By shooting the door or blowing it up? The door isn't gonna stop bullets from flying through it. He doesn't need to see to decide to shoot what's behind the door.
Eagle-Eye can keep a highlight on Loid's location. He could also opt to start blowing shit up with TNT which makes hiding worse for Loid in this case.
And Arthur can dead eye to avoid Loid shooting at him, he's done it mid-shot plenty of times. If you can explain more on the listening device that'd be cool but I assume it wouldn't be of much use due to Arthur not being the type to talk much during a fight by the end of the game.
That's not a reaction speed feat, that's a feat of navigating a cave to find a cougar. He went into the cave specifically to find and kill the cougar. He's also done the same thing to a different Cougar / panther in a massive field full of grass where it was hiding.
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Arthur also has a Win against John Wick who's infamous for the whole "you look at me now I'm behind you without you noticing." Stealth shit going on much like Agent 47. Both of whom I doubt Loid is better in that department. Loid's good but not look at him now he's gone type of good.
Eagle-Eye hard counters any attempt at stealth by making highlights of Loid's location and Dead-Eye is something Loid can't avoid due to attacks with Dead-Eye being able to place bullets all over the body before opponents can move behind cover.
While in Dead Eye mode, moving the reticle over an enemy automatically places marks on that specific location. As soon as the fire button is pressed, all of the marked locations will automatically be fired at, even if the opponent has moved behind cover when the sequence started. It is therefore advised to target enemies close to cover first. If Dead Eye is exited without any marks placed, no shots will be fired.
At level 3 he can even hit shit that's not visible to Arthur. Which makes sense given that he can view organs from within the body to aim at them.
While in Dead Eye mode, the player can press the PSR1BUTTON button (PS3) or XBOXRBBUTTON (Xbox 360) to mark enemies manually. Pressing the fire button after enemies have been marked will automatically make the player fire at the targets in the order they have been placed. Shots marked while enemies are out of cover will be attempted regardless of whether the enemy is still visible.
Eagle-Eye hard counters any attempt at stealth by making highlights of Loid's location and Dead-Eye is something Loid can't avoid due to attacks with Dead-Eye being able to place bullets all over the body before opponents can move behind cover.
While in Dead Eye mode, moving the reticle over an enemy automatically places marks on that specific location. As soon as the fire button is pressed, all of the marked locations will automatically be fired at, even if the opponent has moved behind cover when the sequence started. It is therefore advised to target enemies close to cover first. If Dead Eye is exited without any marks placed, no shots will be fired.
At level 3 he can even hit shit that's not visible to Arthur. Which makes sense given that he can view organs from within the body to aim at them.
While in Dead Eye mode, the player can press the PSR1BUTTON button (PS3) or XBOXRBBUTTON (Xbox 360) to mark enemies manually. Pressing the fire button after enemies have been marked will automatically make the player fire at the targets in the order they have been placed. Shots marked while enemies are out of cover will be attempted regardless of whether the enemy is still visible.
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Oh and Loid can't actually avoid being hit by some of Arthur's attacks while in Dead Eye. While in Dead Eye if Arthur uses a tomahawk, TNT or fire bottles they'll follow the target till they hit.
Using Dead Eye targeting (level 2 or 3) on targets with Throwing Knives, Fire Bottles, Dynamite or Tomahawks will cause a "homing effect" whereby it will follow the target until it hits, much like a homing missile. This can create a rather comedic effect if Dynamite or Molotovs are used on birds. (This does not work in multiplayer)
Using Dead Eye targeting (level 2 or 3) on targets with Throwing Knives, Fire Bottles, Dynamite or Tomahawks will cause a "homing effect" whereby it will follow the target until it hits, much like a homing missile. This can create a rather comedic effect if Dynamite or Molotovs are used on birds. (This does not work in multiplayer)
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Im sorry but John Wick isnt near as stealth as Loid. Wick barely has any great stealth feat
And I think he should have won against Arthur tbh. His suit is basically immune to bullets
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Show me Loid disappearing and reappearing from the sights of the world's best assassins without them noticing. Although this is pretty much irrelevant tbh.
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Told myself I wouldn't comment here cause I am not a fan of back and forth paragraphs, but I will once again state my FRA for Arthur due to my previous reasons, Gin's reasons and just one more response i'll make, but before that I do agree Arthur needs a more precise AP (I officially left the wiki a while ago but if someone wants to work on it you can message me on my wall and I'd gladly help off-site.)
Regarding stealth, initally I agreed it was in Loid's favor by a mile, but is it really? RDR is filled with stealth and infiltration type missions, where if the player makes the decision to have Arthur take the lead, he can against camps filled with men with rifles and other firearm where they are defending their camps from all directions. I'll reinstate Arthur usually fights multiple armed dangerous and trained O'driscoll members who know Arthur to some degree in large camps. This time Arthur is fighting just one man who he'll give his whole focus too. In one of the first noteworthy stealth missions where we infiltrate an O'driscol gang, Arthur can literally talk to his fellow members, sneak through grass/bushes etc which would make a lot of noise mind you, up until he is right behind the target and stealth kill them, and in some cases no one will notice he just knifed one of their own. Later on in the game there are more stealth missions against massive bases even on guarma where Arthur can quite casually just sneak around despite dying from TB and coughing 24/7 which you think would alert large bases filled with armed and trained men, but they just don't notice him at all until he starts to attack. And then ofc the eagle eye points Gin made. ~~It is kinda funny thinking that Loid has clearly trained in this stealth field where Arthur lowkey just wings it~~
Yes, Arthur has been caught off guard but as I said before, the noteworthy times were early game to which he improved on, and the only other noticable times was when he had TB, on the verge of death and was coughing 24/7. Idk why Loid's stealth and skills aren't being called into question either when he (and even yor) has been put into favourable scenario's so many times thanks to Anya and there being possible times where he would have died if she did not pull some tomfoolery. In saying that, Loid's best chances in this fight (his stealth) is if given the benefit of the doubt 6/10 times better than Arthur's, whereas Dead Eye is something Loid has never encountered before and has no counters too. Arthur's best shot in this fight > Loid's. Arthur wins more times than he loses, but is sure isn't a stomp or anything.
Regarding stealth, initally I agreed it was in Loid's favor by a mile, but is it really? RDR is filled with stealth and infiltration type missions, where if the player makes the decision to have Arthur take the lead, he can against camps filled with men with rifles and other firearm where they are defending their camps from all directions. I'll reinstate Arthur usually fights multiple armed dangerous and trained O'driscoll members who know Arthur to some degree in large camps. This time Arthur is fighting just one man who he'll give his whole focus too. In one of the first noteworthy stealth missions where we infiltrate an O'driscol gang, Arthur can literally talk to his fellow members, sneak through grass/bushes etc which would make a lot of noise mind you, up until he is right behind the target and stealth kill them, and in some cases no one will notice he just knifed one of their own. Later on in the game there are more stealth missions against massive bases even on guarma where Arthur can quite casually just sneak around despite dying from TB and coughing 24/7 which you think would alert large bases filled with armed and trained men, but they just don't notice him at all until he starts to attack. And then ofc the eagle eye points Gin made. ~~It is kinda funny thinking that Loid has clearly trained in this stealth field where Arthur lowkey just wings it~~
Yes, Arthur has been caught off guard but as I said before, the noteworthy times were early game to which he improved on, and the only other noticable times was when he had TB, on the verge of death and was coughing 24/7. Idk why Loid's stealth and skills aren't being called into question either when he (and even yor) has been put into favourable scenario's so many times thanks to Anya and there being possible times where he would have died if she did not pull some tomfoolery. In saying that, Loid's best chances in this fight (his stealth) is if given the benefit of the doubt 6/10 times better than Arthur's, whereas Dead Eye is something Loid has never encountered before and has no counters too. Arthur's best shot in this fight > Loid's. Arthur wins more times than he loses, but is sure isn't a stomp or anything.
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Let my guy cook. 
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Also I forgot how grace works here, but if the other dude counted correctly and I didnt miss anything, it's 9-7 to Arthur, not sure if that is grace
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Arthur FRA
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- Thread starter
- #105
I'll update the votes there as it seems to be 10 for Arthur and 7 to Loid, do need to ask if Loid has this ap gap that's wider than my waistline (And I work in a bakery so that's a close comparison) what does Arthur have again to get past this and would he know Loid's this strong with a glance?
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Gun's, fire, tnt and, explosive and express rounds that can one shot Loid. AP is irrelevant as Arthur wouldn't engage him in h2h.
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Didn't know humans had X-ray vision and intangible bullets
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Strawmaning to the maximum. Did you hear me make those claims or imply that? Do me a solid, don't purposely misinterpret my words whenever you clearly knew what I meant.
Although this is funny because Dead-Eye literally grants a limited form of X-Ray vision that let's him see organs and weak points.
That was in reference to how far humans can see and not even sure how you got intangible bullets out of that. They don't need to be intangible, they're walls which Arthur can shoot threw or alternatively blow them up.
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Because no line of site means the two have obstructions between each other and in a place like NYC that would be concrete buildings so they can't immediately, Arthur would need X-ray vision and intangible bullets to one-shot Loid with a headshot with dead eye
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Thank you for the English lesson, i know what no line of sight means. Again you are purpose misinterpreting my argument and I'd appreciate you if you were to stop strawmaning my argument because anyone can see what your doing here.
Thankfully i never said or implied this. Hell this wasn't even my argument so I know that you've hardly been reading them to begin with.
You are literally responding to arguments that were never made or implied. I said he can blow it up or shoot through the obstacles. Both of which would be easy to do with his equipment.
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Loid FRA
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More strawmaning and outright manipulation of comments. You quoted on part of my actual comment when it reality it goes much deeper. I expanded upon that with things like tracking, and his other abilities for a win-con.
Keep the strawmaning up tho really.
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I was arguing against popping someone with a quick time ability at the start of the match when there's no line of sight but alr
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Which again, I expanded upon. Also obviously won't stay that way with shit being blown up by Arthur.
Anyway going to bed.
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Like how this was just flipped to try and turn it to dead eye never being addressed, anyways this is just moot.
Also yall are reallh really overstimating regular wildlife stealth feats
Tanin_iver
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Also just realized, with Dead Eye the bullets won't become any faster, and Loid will still be Supersonic even after speed equalized? Wouldn't he just dodge the bullets with his IR?
I mean I don't really see how Arthur has any advantage or wincon left
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Yeah this too
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The bullets don’t get faster, he just locks onto you and blasts you.
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That's literally what he said and the bullet's don't lock on. Bro doesn't have homing attack the dude is simply focusing where he wants to shoot hence this
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