Lord English vs Death of the Endless

[The_real_cal_howard]

Another LE battle. A lord vs a lady. Who wins here?

 

[Spydery]

They seem to be on pretty even ground, but depending on the exact extent of Death of the Endless' nigh-omniscience AND the extent of the rules she has to follow, I'm going for LE here.

But like I said I'm not one hundred percent.

 

[Elgb333]

Although Death the Endless is limited by the rules she herself has created, I don't really think that Lord English has anything to go up against her. Death existed way before the DC Presence and "existence" itself was created. Even the Prescne and his second Lucifer feared the Endless becasue they virtually ahd nothing to go up agaisnt them. Lord English's powers of manipualtions are somethig Death had came across before so it won't be that much help.

Basically, Lord English's powers of erasing someone from existance is enat, but Death is basically the personification of the aplha and omega of existance. Besides that she also fought more god-tier beings and cthulthian monsters so there's taht.

 

[Voidchimera]

~snop~

Thing is, LE's powers aren't his. They're linked to "Paradox Space", which is the general word for the entire bulk of 'existence' in Homestuck, which does seem like it would put him in very similar circumstances as Death, albet with less direct control of the source of his power.

First, his powers are enforced by PSpace itself. He has the power to manipulate timelines, to ensure his own existance and survival. As in, he is allowed to enter a universe at it's death because he entered at it's death and not only allowed his future entry, he makes it an immutable future fact of the universe. Recursve circumstances like this are common in HS and the reason for the 'paradox' in Paradox Space. Any timeline where his entry does not happen is doomed, along with everyone in it. It will unravel rapidly, and even anyone who escapes to another universe or timeline is still very much doomed, as their death is still written into PSpace.

Second, his death itself is impossible, his life is an immutable fact of Paradox Space itself. Any timeline where this is violated is doomed, and unravels rapidly, like before. The most that could ever be done to him was seal him away, but, again, his reemergence is still inevitable. The only very specific things that were capible of this were the soul-rip attack from a Heart-aspect player, and the second form of the "Ultimate Weapon". Without those, or maybe some eqivalent, there isn't much that can be done to him.

 

[Elgb333]

Well I can't say which one will end killing each other. Being existence-tier does make it seem that neither are going to hurt each other. The thing about Death is that she doesn't need her full powers to win. In both Sandman Overture and Nocturne, she's fought equally powerful existence-tier characters with brains alone. While neither characters can kill each other, I am sure that Death can play Lord English to her hands. Hell, even Lucifer Morningstar and John Constantine, one of the greatest prepsters in the DCU, are hesitant to fight her through brains. So i think that this battle will end up to which one outsmarts the other rather than outfighting them.

 

[Voidchimera]

Snip!

Thing is, LE's problem is how there isn't anything to outsmart. The cast of Homestuck played him like a fiddle for a whole act, but still the most they could do was contain him with the Ultimate Weapon, since his invunerability isn't his, his life is a fact written into and enforced by Paradox Space itself (ie existance itself).

He, quite literally in the story, got access to the abstract clock that defines if a character lives or dies, and smashed his to bits, not even as a joke. That's canonicly how he became what he is. Does Death have any meta-narritive stuff like that she could counter with?

 

[Minstry_of_pain]

Although Death the Endless is limited by the rules she herself has created, I don't really think that Lord English has anything to go up against her. Death existed way before the DC Presence and "existence" itself was created. Even the Prescne and his second Lucifer feared the Endless becasue they virtually ahd nothing to go up agaisnt them. Lord English's powers of manipualtions are somethig Death had came across before so it won't be that much help.
Basically, Lord English's powers of erasing someone from existance is enat, but Death is basically the personification of the aplha and omega of existance. Besides that she also fought more god-tier beings and cthulthian monsters so there's taht.

first off you got the endless and lucifer thing backwards. Lucifer never feared the endlesses he on several occasions even told dream he would out right kill him. Yet dream who feared Lucifer, but had no qualms directly threating Death. So again where are you getting presence or lucifer fearing the endlesses. They never once talked about their fear of the aspects and trust me I have every scan of Sandman and Lucifer. Now constatine and Lucifer agreeing she can match wits with them. Is no suprise since they all outplay each other. If you have a scan of lucifer or the presence stating that I would love to see it, but to my knowledge the endlesses match each other for power only diffrence is Lucifer is slighty stronger than them and then theirs Yaweh and than their Elaine whos stronger than all of them.

 

[fandom_123chaseyoung]

None of these two are going to kill each other. But I agree that Death can probably trick and loophole her way to beat Lord English.

 

[Elizhaa]

Death of the Endless is now likely High 1-C so STOMP by Lord English.